please don't let me down again CJ. you need this win. hopefully winners league format will be better.... that 1-6 performance in round 4 was embarrassing.
I pick you as anti and you dominate, I pick you as captain and you lose everything, then back to anti again you´ll probably all-kill right away. Talk about an abusive relationship...
cant believe how much hydra has improved in that short of time. Just last week or two, he died to every single mines and drops. Today, he makes SH somehow work, fakes an allin, macroes comfortably, microes against mines, covers every single drops etc. Once the dude figures out the game, it's scary
On May 04 2013 15:25 Arceus wrote: cant believe how much hydra has improved in that short of time. Just last week or two, he died to every single mines and drops. Today, he makes SH somehow work, fakes an allin, macroes comfortably, microes against mines, covers every single drops etc. Once the dude figures out the game, it's scary
SH in zvp? Swarmhosts have always been good zvp just very underused right now. Wish I had seen the first game :D
On May 04 2013 15:25 Arceus wrote: cant believe how much hydra has improved in that short of time. Just last week or two, he died to every single mines and drops. Today, he makes SH somehow work, fakes an allin, macroes comfortably, microes against mines, covers every single drops etc. Once the dude figures out the game, it's scary
SH in zvp? Swarmhosts have always been good zvp just very underused right now. Wish I had seen the first game :D
no offense to your guide but SH has been trash every single time it's used in ZvX. It almost looks like pros let SHs die so they feel good and go on to win. True story.
On May 04 2013 15:25 Arceus wrote: cant believe how much hydra has improved in that short of time. Just last week or two, he died to every single mines and drops. Today, he makes SH somehow work, fakes an allin, macroes comfortably, microes against mines, covers every single drops etc. Once the dude figures out the game, it's scary
SH in zvp? Swarmhosts have always been good zvp just very underused right now. Wish I had seen the first game :D
On May 04 2013 15:25 Arceus wrote: cant believe how much hydra has improved in that short of time. Just last week or two, he died to every single mines and drops. Today, he makes SH somehow work, fakes an allin, macroes comfortably, microes against mines, covers every single drops etc. Once the dude figures out the game, it's scary
SH in zvp? Swarmhosts have always been good zvp just very underused right now. Wish I had seen the first game :D
no offense to your guide but SH has been trash every single time it's used in ZvX. It almost looks like pros let SHs die so they feel good and go on to win. True story.
It's because pro's use swarmhosts like trash. Their not an easy unit to use and it's very frustrating to see pro's who say sh are bad because they use them so stupidly ^^.
On May 04 2013 15:46 Arceus wrote: turn out mutas ZvZ is still more interesting than this kind of ZvZ -_-
No way man, here at least you have some positional play. In muta war it is a-move vs a-move. One thing though, muta wars usually end the game sooner, and there is little to zero probability of repeat of game 1 of last WoL GSL finals.
I try my very best to avoid strait caster bashing but listening to SNM blatantly make everything up as he goes is very painful.
I really think these guys have had enough time to drastically improve their game knowledge. From a purely business perspective these guys cant be good for viewer numbers.
Sorry to be negative I really gave them a chance but this is ridiculous.
Not sure why SNM kept going on and on about Roro not taking gas in his third when he wasn't short of gas while going Roach/Hydra. Roro was eventually at something like 400/1300 a couple minutes later.
On May 04 2013 15:58 M.R. McThundercrotch wrote: These battles are so dumb, hahaha. Hydra/Roach vs Hydra/Roach...at least there are no Infestors, I s'pose.
boring, just boring. I miss muta ZvZ. ZvZ should be quick like in BW, this hydra-roach battles are slow and positional, which is definitely worse than muta vs muta engagements
On May 04 2013 15:59 letian wrote: boring, just boring. I miss muta ZvZ. ZvZ should be quick like in BW, this hydra-roach battles are slow and positional, which is definitely worse than muta vs muta engagements
This is why I hope muta never becomes irrelevant because ground based zvz will be super boring especially when zergs do turtle spine + swarmhost.
On May 04 2013 15:59 letian wrote: boring, just boring. I miss muta ZvZ. ZvZ should be quick like in BW, this hydra-roach battles are slow and positional, which is definitely worse than muta vs muta engagements
This is why I hope muta never becomes irrelevant because ground based zvz will be super boring especially when zergs do turtle spine + swarmhost.
It'd be like watching a Moba with towers, creep waves and no heroes. Can even mix in broods later on!
On May 04 2013 15:59 letian wrote: boring, just boring. I miss muta ZvZ. ZvZ should be quick like in BW, this hydra-roach battles are slow and positional, which is definitely worse than muta vs muta engagements
This is why I hope muta never becomes irrelevant because ground based zvz will be super boring especially when zergs do turtle spine + swarmhost.
It'd be like watching a Moba with towers, creep waves and no heroes. Can even mix in broods later on!
Add in infestors, and you will have the ultimate battle of free units!
On May 04 2013 16:08 opterown wrote: i didn't watch much BW ZvZ, anyone have good examples of VODs to catch the great action etc?
It got whined about almost as much as SC2 PvP, there were some epic late game ones but part of the epicness was because the mu usually only consisted of zergling muta with maybe 20% build order wins.
On May 04 2013 15:59 letian wrote: boring, just boring. I miss muta ZvZ. ZvZ should be quick like in BW, this hydra-roach battles are slow and positional, which is definitely worse than muta vs muta engagements
This is why I hope muta never becomes irrelevant because ground based zvz will be super boring especially when zergs do turtle spine + swarmhost.
I agree it should not become irrelevant, but dont you think that muta is being overused? ZvZ meta at this point basically devolved into 3rd hatch snipe into getting larger muta count of 6 gases. It would be nice if muta ling was viable vs roach hydra and the other way around, but I dont know at this point how it could be done without breaking the other matchups.
On May 04 2013 16:08 opterown wrote: i didn't watch much BW ZvZ, anyone have good examples of VODs to catch the great action etc?
It got whined about almost as much as SC2 PvP, there were some epic late game ones but part of the epicness was because the mu usually only consisted of zergling muta with maybe 20% build order wins.
so.. a bit like 4gate era of PvP?
i'm not sure whether BW ZvZ was that great or whether it's kinda like "grass is greener on the other side" (in this case the old side)
On May 04 2013 16:06 pylonsalad wrote: Blizzard bring back the scourge! Classic BW zvz is best zvz.
I also think Lurkers would actually have a great spot in SC2 ZvZ. Take that last match and add in Lurkers and switch Blinding Cloud for Dark Swarm and it could actually be really interesting. Scourge or just any anti-air flyer that could be effecient against Mutas and ZvZ would have two interesting unit compositions, like Mech and Bio in TvT.
I really think it is so close to being great and it makes me sad.
On May 04 2013 16:08 opterown wrote: i didn't watch much BW ZvZ, anyone have good examples of VODs to catch the great action etc?
It got whined about almost as much as SC2 PvP, there were some epic late game ones but part of the epicness was because the mu usually only consisted of zergling muta with maybe 20% build order wins.
so.. a bit like 4gate era of PvP?
i'm not sure whether BW ZvZ was that great or whether it's kinda like "grass is greener on the other side" (in this case the old side)
On May 04 2013 16:08 opterown wrote: i didn't watch much BW ZvZ, anyone have good examples of VODs to catch the great action etc?
It got whined about almost as much as SC2 PvP, there were some epic late game ones but part of the epicness was because the mu usually only consisted of zergling muta with maybe 20% build order wins.
so.. a bit like 4gate era of PvP?
i'm not sure whether BW ZvZ was that great or whether it's kinda like "grass is greener on the other side" (in this case the old side)
BW matchups were different and by different I mean like special each in their own way. So when ppl were anticipating TvT they knew it would be positional chess-like game. PvP was a bo coin flip and probably most boring matchup in BW, but reavers boosted PvP quality enormously, ZvZ was fast and entertaining yet still heavily muta based. That in fact didn't make ZvZ boring at all. I really hope sc2 shall deliver matchups close to bw level of entertainment. The absence of units with ridiculously high dps is disheartening though.
On May 04 2013 16:24 Aerisky wrote: Dammit roro, ahead all game and just loses all his infestors ugh
No, not really. He wasn't ahead when he let like 30 Drones die to Phoenixes...
Really, he lost that many? Must have missed it, thought his drone count was pretty high, lots of bases, and that the ling runby did a lot of damage, nvm then
Bong was playing really well though, I suppose I meant to say that roro was in a solid position all game, not ahead.
On May 04 2013 16:24 Aerisky wrote: Dammit roro, ahead all game and just loses all his infestors ugh
No, not really. He wasn't ahead when he let like 30 Drones die to Phoenixes...
Really, he lost that many? Must have missed it, thought his drone count was pretty high, lots of bases, and that the ling runby did a lot of damage, nvm then
Bong was playing really well though, I suppose I meant to say that roro was in a solid position all game, not ahead.
Well, not really 30, but it was 20+ for sure. He lost 15 in a first Phoenix run, and then they were back and killed even more, together with Queens. It was 59 vs. 45 workers in Bong's favor, or something like that in the end.
Finally a freaking win! Was beggining to wonder if we went from a champion team to a non playoff team. Sad that EffOrt did not get his chance to play today.
EPT
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I feel so bad seeing that mushroom in production
