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On April 16 2013 20:56 kubiks wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2013 20:52 gaymon wrote:
This game was the epitome of my hatred against Zerg (No Balance Whine, he could have scouted the Spire), if you dont scout the spire 2 minutes from it starting you are pretty much dead. I don't want to be mean, but he had the time to have +2 attack before doing mutas, so the switch was long planned. It's not like protoss hadn't any way of scouting (hallucinited phenix, real phenix). And at this level of play, people don't do a "random spire", and as corruptors are AWFULL against vr, mutas were really to be expcected. With just scouting the spire, squirtle could have guessed the strategy. The only problem is to know when. But he could have the phenix range + 6-7 phenix in time for the mutas...
As i already said, no balance whine, but squirtle probably felt WAAAAY ahead after killing 60 roaches for a nexus and therefore had a feeling of safe security that he had already won.
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On April 16 2013 20:57 Yello wrote:
Losers' Match
Shine vs Squirtle
Game 2: Daybreak
Shine spawns in the top right
Squirtle spawns in the bottom left
0:00-4:00min
Shine goes for Pool first and builds a Hatchery at the third base location as Squirtle blocks the natural with his Probe
Squirtle starts with Forge and then Nexus, Shine goes for a fast third base at his natural location
4:00-6:00min
Stargate again for Squirtle, 2 Extractors, Drones and Queens for Shine
6:00-8:00min
Squirtle starts with Phoenixes this time, keeping them hidden for now
Lair started for Shine, additional Extractors and an Evolution Chamber in production
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On April 16 2013 20:58 Wintex wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2013 20:57 Bibbit wrote:On April 16 2013 20:55 Wintex wrote:On April 16 2013 20:52 crappen wrote:
What is Shine hated for exactly? I havent followed the scene He is mean, kills the great protosses and doesn't want to retire. Why would he retire while he can kill great protosses? Even if he falls out today, he still made it to Code S Cause i want him to 
Haha fair enough. I've acknowledged I'm the only extant huge Shine fan some time ago 
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On April 16 2013 20:57 Bibbit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2013 20:55 Wintex wrote:On April 16 2013 20:52 crappen wrote:
What is Shine hated for exactly? I havent followed the scene He is mean, kills the great protosses and doesn't want to retire. Why would he retire while he can kill great protosses? Even if he falls out today, he still made it to Code S
the most enigmatic thing about shine is he has some of the biggest winning streaks in history of BW
1st ZvZ streak
and top 3 overall streak.
Yup
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On April 16 2013 20:57 dani` wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2013 20:56 negativedge wrote:On April 16 2013 20:54 Archybaldie wrote:On April 16 2013 20:52 McBengt wrote:On April 16 2013 20:51 Doublemint wrote:dealing with a 20+ muta switch this late into the game... not in this expansion Squirtle  Needs storm basically, or you have to turtle with 1231221 cannons and mass blink stalkers. Counterattacking is just a quick way to die. Thats the wings of liberty thought process. Anything that shoots up is helpful. But you always need the phoenixes to chase them down because they regen so quick in hots. and if you scout it you're fine if you're sitting on 2 stargates plus fleet beacon. it really doesn't take many phoenixes to shut muta play down if you know it's coming The tricky thing is you don't really know Mutas are coming when scouting a Spire mid/late game. Could be for Corrupters, Vipers, etc. But yeah you should be able to hold those Mutas off a bit regardless with the Voids / Nexus Cannon / Stalkers w/e while building Phoenix. Still Zerg tech switches are done so quickly with mass Larvae it's not as easy as some Zergs think ^_^
You don't need the spire for vipers anymore!
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
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On April 16 2013 20:57 dani` wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2013 20:56 negativedge wrote:On April 16 2013 20:54 Archybaldie wrote:On April 16 2013 20:52 McBengt wrote:On April 16 2013 20:51 Doublemint wrote:dealing with a 20+ muta switch this late into the game... not in this expansion Squirtle Needs storm basically, or you have to turtle with 1231221 cannons and mass blink stalkers. Counterattacking is just a quick way to die. Thats the wings of liberty thought process. Anything that shoots up is helpful. But you always need the phoenixes to chase them down because they regen so quick in hots. and if you scout it you're fine if you're sitting on 2 stargates plus fleet beacon. it really doesn't take many phoenixes to shut muta play down if you know it's coming The tricky thing is you don't really know Mutas are coming when scouting a Spire mid/late game. Could be for Corrupters, Vipers, etc. But yeah you should be able to hold those Mutas off a bit regardless with the Voids / Nexus Cannon / Stalkers w/e while building Phoenix. Still Zerg tech switches are done so quickly with mass Larvae it's not as easy as some Zergs think ^_^
Viper don't need spire, and corrputors are awfull against vr that he scouted. And bls are stupid agaisnt air protoss. So, it's mutas for sure 
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Wow, Squirtle is on a sluuuuuump.
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On April 16 2013 20:57 dani` wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2013 20:56 negativedge wrote:On April 16 2013 20:54 Archybaldie wrote:On April 16 2013 20:52 McBengt wrote:On April 16 2013 20:51 Doublemint wrote:dealing with a 20+ muta switch this late into the game... not in this expansion Squirtle Needs storm basically, or you have to turtle with 1231221 cannons and mass blink stalkers. Counterattacking is just a quick way to die. Thats the wings of liberty thought process. Anything that shoots up is helpful. But you always need the phoenixes to chase them down because they regen so quick in hots. and if you scout it you're fine if you're sitting on 2 stargates plus fleet beacon. it really doesn't take many phoenixes to shut muta play down if you know it's coming The tricky thing is you don't really know Mutas are coming when scouting a Spire mid/late game. Could be for Corrupters, Vipers, etc. But yeah you should be able to hold those Mutas off a bit regardless with the Voids / Nexus Cannon / Stalkers w/e while building Phoenix. Still Zerg tech switches are done so quickly with mass Larvae it's not as easy as some Zergs think ^_^
Vipers don't require a spire.
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I kinda wanna see Squirtle crash and burn here, he hasn't accomplished anything for a good while now and seems just overrated.
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On April 16 2013 20:56 kubiks wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2013 20:52 gaymon wrote:
This game was the epitome of my hatred against Zerg (No Balance Whine, he could have scouted the Spire), if you dont scout the spire 2 minutes from it starting you are pretty much dead. I don't want to be mean, but he had the time to have +2 attack before doing mutas, so the switch was long planned. It's not like protoss hadn't any way of scouting (hallucinited phenix, real phenix). And at this level of play, people don't do a "random spire", and as corruptors are AWFULL against vr, mutas were really to be expcected. With just scouting the spire, squirtle could have guessed the strategy. The only problem is to know when. But he could have the phenix range + 6-7 phenix in time for the mutas...
the thing is the toss has to make phoenixes and range in this situation after scouting the spire. the zerg just laughs when he notices that the toss scouted the spire and doesn't make mutas.
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Lol what now 60 hydras into 20 mutas?
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On April 16 2013 20:59 bgx wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2013 20:57 Bibbit wrote:On April 16 2013 20:55 Wintex wrote:On April 16 2013 20:52 crappen wrote:
What is Shine hated for exactly? I havent followed the scene He is mean, kills the great protosses and doesn't want to retire. Why would he retire while he can kill great protosses? Even if he falls out today, he still made it to Code S the most enigmatic thing about shine is he has some of the biggest winning streaks in history of BW 1st ZvZ streak and top 3 overall streak. Yup
I actually wrote the book on Shine (shameless plug gogo) so I know :D
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On April 16 2013 21:00 DJHelium wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2013 20:57 dani` wrote:On April 16 2013 20:56 negativedge wrote:On April 16 2013 20:54 Archybaldie wrote:On April 16 2013 20:52 McBengt wrote:On April 16 2013 20:51 Doublemint wrote:dealing with a 20+ muta switch this late into the game... not in this expansion Squirtle Needs storm basically, or you have to turtle with 1231221 cannons and mass blink stalkers. Counterattacking is just a quick way to die. Thats the wings of liberty thought process. Anything that shoots up is helpful. But you always need the phoenixes to chase them down because they regen so quick in hots. and if you scout it you're fine if you're sitting on 2 stargates plus fleet beacon. it really doesn't take many phoenixes to shut muta play down if you know it's coming The tricky thing is you don't really know Mutas are coming when scouting a Spire mid/late game. Could be for Corrupters, Vipers, etc. But yeah you should be able to hold those Mutas off a bit regardless with the Voids / Nexus Cannon / Stalkers w/e while building Phoenix. Still Zerg tech switches are done so quickly with mass Larvae it's not as easy as some Zergs think ^_^ You don't need the spire for vipers anymore!
Oh damn I thought it did o_O But seems you are right, my bad.
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I hate this techswitch zerg style.. so hard to deal with
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On April 16 2013 20:59 Yello wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2013 20:57 Yello wrote:
Losers' Match
Shine vs Squirtle
Game 2: Daybreak
Shine spawns in the top right
Squirtle spawns in the bottom left
0:00-4:00min
Shine goes for Pool first and builds a Hatchery at the third base location as Squirtle blocks the natural with his Probe
Squirtle starts with Forge and then Nexus, Shine goes for a fast third base at his natural location
4:00-6:00min Stargate again for Squirtle, 2 Extractors, Drones and Queens for Shine 6:00-8:00min Squirtle starts with Phoenixes this time, keeping them hidden for now Lair started for Shine, additional Extractors and an Evolution Chamber in production
8:00-10:00min
Shine builds a quick Hydra Den and Spore Crawlers, Squirtle is moving out with 4 Phoenixes and a 5th in production
Squirtle transitions into Robotics Facility and starts killing Overlords and a few Drones
10 Hydras in production for Shine, Hydra Speed and +1 missile attacks as well
Squirtle stops Phoenix production after 5 Phoenixes
10:00-12:00min
Squirtle adds more Gateways, +1 ground attack and Robotics Support Bay while Shine starts a Spire and adds more and more Hydras
Squirtle starts Colossus production and extended thermal lance and adds Voidrays
Shine moves out with 22 Hydras towards Squirtle's third base which just started
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On April 16 2013 21:02 Bibbit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2013 20:59 bgx wrote:On April 16 2013 20:57 Bibbit wrote:On April 16 2013 20:55 Wintex wrote:On April 16 2013 20:52 crappen wrote:
What is Shine hated for exactly? I havent followed the scene He is mean, kills the great protosses and doesn't want to retire. Why would he retire while he can kill great protosses? Even if he falls out today, he still made it to Code S the most enigmatic thing about shine is he has some of the biggest winning streaks in history of BW 1st ZvZ streak and top 3 overall streak. Yup I actually wrote the book on Shine (shameless plug gogo) so I know :D
ah yea, but it was more like a message to whole not to you particularly :D
btw i loved your series, write something more ! i remember horang2 write-up it was great
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On April 16 2013 20:54 Bibbit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2013 20:53 craaaaack wrote:On April 16 2013 20:51 Daralii wrote:
Time to hate Shine in this game, too. QFT man does anyone have the comic where shines keyboard broke and he was only able to build hydras? ![[image loading]](http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/8634/bisuvsshinetxt.jpg)
reposting without spoilers so more people can enjoy this gem
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Squirtle's hallucinations failing him today.
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Sad zealot construction successful.
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EPT
