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On August 14 2012 10:34 jj33 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 10:31 darthfoley wrote:On August 14 2012 10:06 jj33 wrote:On August 14 2012 10:02 murphs wrote:
7 boring faceless koreans left, except for Keen, he does have that cool gif. Would be cool if the wee Scotsman can make it happen but the moment he's out I don't give a damn about TSL anymore. yea they are boring and faceless because they are korean. good logic. get the fuck out he didn't say they were boring and faceless only because the were korean. stop getting butthurt and twisting his sentence. he merely stated that they are boring and faceless, and happen to be korean. i had never even heard of First before TSL. It's just really boring to watch people that have no personality for an english speaking audience. um bullshit. He definitely is calling them faceless because they are Korean. not butthurt at all, just hate racism. Oh yea you're watching a stream of sc2 gameplay, you're not watching them singing or dancing. And there's no interviews with players in this tournament from what I have seen thus far, so you're statement is null. The only thing you are watching is the players playing and thats the entertainment, their skill.
Not bullshit.
You get emotionally invested into players that you get attached to, whether from past performances or interviews or their stream, yada yada yada. This group of Koreans, outside of Keen, has not shown any of his personality and therefore do not get any of the emotional followers that a player like Naniwa gets.
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On August 14 2012 10:31 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 10:06 jj33 wrote:On August 14 2012 10:02 murphs wrote:
7 boring faceless koreans left, except for Keen, he does have that cool gif. Would be cool if the wee Scotsman can make it happen but the moment he's out I don't give a damn about TSL anymore. yea they are boring and faceless because they are korean. good logic. get the fuck out he didn't say they were boring and faceless only because the were korean. stop getting butthurt and twisting his sentence. he merely stated that they are boring and faceless, and happen to be korean. i had never even heard of First before TSL. It's just really boring to watch people that have no personality for an english speaking audience.
I'm sorry but I find players like KeeN, Life, and Creator a lot more interesting than players like MajOr or NaNiwa. I mean I guess highly controversial players give people some drama to talk about ("this matchup makes no sense" or whatever NaNi said), but I would much rather have high level game play.
And to a certain extent, the fact that they are faceless KOREANS does make a lot of people lose interest. Creator, Hack, Curious, Life, and the other Koreans all have managed to qualify for this tournament, get far, and most importantly deliver amazing games. Yet, during the TSL qualifiers, there was a player--perhaps you remember--who literally was and still is faceless: mycerion. Did the fact that nobody had ever heard of this random Estonian make people lose interest? No, in fact, without even qualifying for TSL he managed to get a fan club. So don't try to say that the reason people are "losing interest" has nothing to do with the fact that they are Koreans.
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On August 14 2012 10:34 jj33 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 10:31 darthfoley wrote:On August 14 2012 10:06 jj33 wrote:On August 14 2012 10:02 murphs wrote:
7 boring faceless koreans left, except for Keen, he does have that cool gif. Would be cool if the wee Scotsman can make it happen but the moment he's out I don't give a damn about TSL anymore. yea they are boring and faceless because they are korean. good logic. get the fuck out he didn't say they were boring and faceless only because the were korean. stop getting butthurt and twisting his sentence. he merely stated that they are boring and faceless, and happen to be korean. i had never even heard of First before TSL. It's just really boring to watch people that have no personality for an english speaking audience. um bullshit. He definitely is calling them faceless because they are Korean. not butthurt at all, just hate racism. Oh yea you're watching a stream of sc2 gameplay, you're not watching them singing or dancing. And there's no interviews with players in this tournament from what I have seen thus far, so you're statement is null. The only thing you are watching is the players playing and thats the entertainment, their skill.
yes, to an extent they are faceless because they are korean. i think we all agree that it's hard to have a "personality" when you don't speak the language your audience does. it's not racist to say they are faceless because of the culture/language barrier.
and i'm pretty sure they've done some winner's interviews.
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United States15275 Posts
Korean modesty and the lack of interaction between the scenes has made Korean players generally uninteresting to foreign spectators. A few of us have strong investments in certain "faceless" Korean players but we are generally the ones who follow all the obscure online tournaments. The vast majority of the community will get attached to whoever creates the strongest personal attachment.
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On August 14 2012 10:45 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Korean modesty and the lack of interaction between the scenes has made Korean players generally uninteresting to foreign spectators. A few of us have strong investments in certain "faceless" Korean players but we are generally the ones who follow all the obscure online tournaments.
Once again, mycerion never had an interview to my knowledge. He still got ridiculous attention and hype (just for the record there is nothing wrong with that). And I'm not entirely sure what you mean by modesty. Sure, you have players who are shy, but KeeN and Life have no problem telling people how they feel. Did you read their interviews for Ro32?
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United States15275 Posts
On August 14 2012 10:47 The Final Boss wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 10:45 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Korean modesty and the lack of interaction between the scenes has made Korean players generally uninteresting to foreign spectators. A few of us have strong investments in certain "faceless" Korean players but we are generally the ones who follow all the obscure online tournaments. Once again, mycerion never had an interview to my knowledge. He still got ridiculous attention and hype (just for the record there is nothing wrong with that). And I'm not entirely sure what you mean by modesty. Sure, you have players who are shy, but KeeN and Life have no problem telling people how they feel. Did you read their interviews for Ro32?
People liked Mycerion because they could project their own biases and expectations upon him. Being a blank slate was good for him; the audience could assume that he was relatable in the first place (foreign unknown player and yada yada yada) and made up the connotations as they went along.
There is almost no shit-talking or personal controversy within the Korean scene. Even the foreign scene pales in comparison to the FGC in that department, except the FGC doesn't take itself seriously enough to get riled up about it. Koreans rarely talk about their personal lives and they all generally have the same aspirations. This makes it very hard to differentiate between them without extensive knowledge.
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On August 14 2012 10:37 Dexington wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 10:34 jj33 wrote:On August 14 2012 10:31 darthfoley wrote:On August 14 2012 10:06 jj33 wrote:On August 14 2012 10:02 murphs wrote:
7 boring faceless koreans left, except for Keen, he does have that cool gif. Would be cool if the wee Scotsman can make it happen but the moment he's out I don't give a damn about TSL anymore. yea they are boring and faceless because they are korean. good logic. get the fuck out he didn't say they were boring and faceless only because the were korean. stop getting butthurt and twisting his sentence. he merely stated that they are boring and faceless, and happen to be korean. i had never even heard of First before TSL. It's just really boring to watch people that have no personality for an english speaking audience. um bullshit. He definitely is calling them faceless because they are Korean. not butthurt at all, just hate racism. Oh yea you're watching a stream of sc2 gameplay, you're not watching them singing or dancing. And there's no interviews with players in this tournament from what I have seen thus far, so you're statement is null. The only thing you are watching is the players playing and thats the entertainment, their skill. Not bullshit. You get emotionally invested into players that you get attached to, whether from past performances or interviews or their stream, yada yada yada. This group of Koreans, outside of Keen, has not shown any of his personality and therefore do not get any of the emotional followers that a player like Naniwa gets.
You understand the only reason foreigners are in this tournament is because they held tons of separate qualifiers so the foreigners could duke it out among themselves? If the qualifiers were worldwide there would probably only be 2-3 foreigners in the entire tournament. Skillwise, the gap is just too big.
I mean, if you want to watch the Charlotte Bobcats play the Miami Heat 100 times, just praying for a couple upsets, that's cool I guess.
Foreigner only tournaments get the lowest views, so people obviously know they are bad. But Korean vs Foreigner get the highest which I don't understand. Why are you rooting for a vastly inferior player to upset a Korean lol? The fact that foreigners couldn't even compete with BW korean pros, but can get fluke wins in SC2 should be a bad thing! It should make you upset!
Personally, I'd rather watch two players with 220 epm playing eachother, than one person with 220 epm and the other with 150 playing eachother. I value skill over "personality"-- I guess Kas crying in every tournament ever means personality.
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On August 14 2012 10:53 xrapture wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 10:37 Dexington wrote:On August 14 2012 10:34 jj33 wrote:On August 14 2012 10:31 darthfoley wrote:On August 14 2012 10:06 jj33 wrote:On August 14 2012 10:02 murphs wrote:
7 boring faceless koreans left, except for Keen, he does have that cool gif. Would be cool if the wee Scotsman can make it happen but the moment he's out I don't give a damn about TSL anymore. yea they are boring and faceless because they are korean. good logic. get the fuck out he didn't say they were boring and faceless only because the were korean. stop getting butthurt and twisting his sentence. he merely stated that they are boring and faceless, and happen to be korean. i had never even heard of First before TSL. It's just really boring to watch people that have no personality for an english speaking audience. um bullshit. He definitely is calling them faceless because they are Korean. not butthurt at all, just hate racism. Oh yea you're watching a stream of sc2 gameplay, you're not watching them singing or dancing. And there's no interviews with players in this tournament from what I have seen thus far, so you're statement is null. The only thing you are watching is the players playing and thats the entertainment, their skill. Not bullshit. You get emotionally invested into players that you get attached to, whether from past performances or interviews or their stream, yada yada yada. This group of Koreans, outside of Keen, has not shown any of his personality and therefore do not get any of the emotional followers that a player like Naniwa gets. You understand the only reason foreigners are in this tournament is because they held tons of separate qualifiers so the foreigners could duke it out among themselves? If the qualifiers were worldwide there would probably only be 2-3 foreigners in the entire tournament. Skillwise, the gap is just too big. I mean, if you want to watch the Charlotte Bobcats play the Miami Heat 100 times, just praying for a couple upsets, that's cool I guess. Foreigner only tournaments get the lowest views, so people obviously know they are bad. But Korean vs Foreigner get the highest which I don't understand. Why are you rooting for a vastly inferior player to upset a Korean lol? The fact that foreigners couldn't even compete with BW korean pros, but can get fluke wins in SC2 should be a bad thing! It should make you upset! Personally, I'd rather watch two players with 220 epm playing eachother, than one person with 220 epm and the other with 150 playing eachother. I value skill over "personality"-- I guess Kas crying in every tournament ever means personality.
People think Idra shit talking someone is "personality"
Somehow it doesn't surprise me anymore.
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On August 14 2012 10:37 Dexington wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 10:34 jj33 wrote:On August 14 2012 10:31 darthfoley wrote:On August 14 2012 10:06 jj33 wrote:On August 14 2012 10:02 murphs wrote:
7 boring faceless koreans left, except for Keen, he does have that cool gif. Would be cool if the wee Scotsman can make it happen but the moment he's out I don't give a damn about TSL anymore. yea they are boring and faceless because they are korean. good logic. get the fuck out he didn't say they were boring and faceless only because the were korean. stop getting butthurt and twisting his sentence. he merely stated that they are boring and faceless, and happen to be korean. i had never even heard of First before TSL. It's just really boring to watch people that have no personality for an english speaking audience. um bullshit. He definitely is calling them faceless because they are Korean. not butthurt at all, just hate racism. Oh yea you're watching a stream of sc2 gameplay, you're not watching them singing or dancing. And there's no interviews with players in this tournament from what I have seen thus far, so you're statement is null. The only thing you are watching is the players playing and thats the entertainment, their skill. Not bullshit. You get emotionally invested into players that you get attached to, whether from past performances or interviews or their stream, yada yada yada. This group of Koreans, outside of Keen, has not shown any of his personality and therefore do not get any of the emotional followers that a player like Naniwa gets.
And you don't get to know many of these non korean players either. so once again it's bs.
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Why is it hard for people to understand that people are more naturally attracted to watching and rooting for players that are more similar to them, or seem more unique and interesting to them?
I mean great if you only care about high level play and want to watch the best players, that's your choice. But you can't tell someone they're dumb just because they aren't interested in certain players. And no, it's not being racist to be less interested in Korean players. There are hundreds of really really high level Korean players that often seem interchangeable, which makes them less unique and interesting than their foreign counterparts. That is not racism...
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people like korean players because they are extremely well practiced and show off spectacular plays. however, we know nothing about them besides the fact that they are decent at starcarft. teams like EG and Liquid on the other hand have players that we know and love because they dont just show up at an event and say "thank you, i <3 my fans, hope to show good games," all translated of course.
it's also so much more interesting to see a player like IdrA come and get angry at something than it is to see a korean B-teamer come and just wreck everybody, mostly because of the drama it may cause.
Compared to TSL3, this one lacks the same flavor because its turning into just another all-korean domination, not that that's a bad thing, but there isn't really anything "new" or "upsetting" about that. Everthing that has happened in this tournament apart from major beating Hyun was expected, therefore, less amusing.
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On August 14 2012 10:53 xrapture wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 10:37 Dexington wrote:On August 14 2012 10:34 jj33 wrote:On August 14 2012 10:31 darthfoley wrote:On August 14 2012 10:06 jj33 wrote:On August 14 2012 10:02 murphs wrote:
7 boring faceless koreans left, except for Keen, he does have that cool gif. Would be cool if the wee Scotsman can make it happen but the moment he's out I don't give a damn about TSL anymore. yea they are boring and faceless because they are korean. good logic. get the fuck out he didn't say they were boring and faceless only because the were korean. stop getting butthurt and twisting his sentence. he merely stated that they are boring and faceless, and happen to be korean. i had never even heard of First before TSL. It's just really boring to watch people that have no personality for an english speaking audience. um bullshit. He definitely is calling them faceless because they are Korean. not butthurt at all, just hate racism. Oh yea you're watching a stream of sc2 gameplay, you're not watching them singing or dancing. And there's no interviews with players in this tournament from what I have seen thus far, so you're statement is null. The only thing you are watching is the players playing and thats the entertainment, their skill. Not bullshit. You get emotionally invested into players that you get attached to, whether from past performances or interviews or their stream, yada yada yada. This group of Koreans, outside of Keen, has not shown any of his personality and therefore do not get any of the emotional followers that a player like Naniwa gets. You understand the only reason foreigners are in this tournament is because they held tons of separate qualifiers so the foreigners could duke it out among themselves? If the qualifiers were worldwide there would probably only be 2-3 foreigners in the entire tournament. Skillwise, the gap is just too big. I mean, if you want to watch the Charlotte Bobcats play the Miami Heat 100 times, just praying for a couple upsets, that's cool I guess. Foreigner only tournaments get the lowest views, so people obviously know they are bad. But Korean vs Foreigner get the highest which I don't understand. Why are you rooting for a vastly inferior player to upset a Korean lol? The fact that foreigners couldn't even compete with BW korean pros, but can get fluke wins in SC2 should be a bad thing! It should make you upset! Personally, I'd rather watch two players with 220 epm playing eachother, than one person with 220 epm and the other with 150 playing eachother. I value skill over "personality"-- I guess Kas crying in every tournament ever means personality.
You understand that foreigners continuously beat Koreans at foreign tournaments, right? Not just the same foreigners, and while there are not many of them, they do exist.
Also, what tournaments are you talking about? There are tonnes of foreign tournaments that get massive viewership, while afaik, only two Korean tournaments that have falling Korean viewership. Foreign only tournaments hardly exist anymore, the Koreans are there to make a big story if a foreign player beats them.
On August 14 2012 11:07 Pokebunny wrote:
Why is it hard for people to understand that people are more naturally attracted to watching and rooting for players that are more similar to them, or seem more unique and interesting to them?
I mean great if you only care about high level play and want to watch the best players, that's your choice. But you can't tell someone they're dumb just because they aren't interested in certain players. And no, it's not being racist to be less interested in Korean players. There are hundreds of really really high level Korean players that often seem interchangeable, which makes them less unique and interesting than their foreign counterparts. That is not racism...
Pokebunny hits it on the head. I would gladly watch Naama play all day because he has a unique and successful playstyle, rather than watching Korean Protoss B who plays the same as everyone else.
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On August 14 2012 11:07 Pokebunny wrote:
There are hundreds of really really high level Korean players that often seem interchangeable, which makes them less unique and interesting than their foreign counterparts. That is not racism...
I'm not going to agree or disagree with your overall sentiment, but that was a poorly worded sentence. Your statement is implying that foreigners are more unique and interesting BECAUSE they do not play at a really really high level. I'm sure that foreigner fans (myself included) are not watching foreigners for the sole purpose of watching lower level play...
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United States23455 Posts
I'm more interested in Korean players than foreign players.
Does that make me a reverse-racist?
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On August 14 2012 11:10 Dexington wrote:Pokebunny hits it on the head. I would gladly watch Naama play all day because he has a unique and successful playstyle, rather than watching Korean Protoss B who plays the same as everyone else.
What is 'Korean Protoss B'. There are more unique play styles in Korea considering the high-level player pool is so much larger. Naama has a unique TvP style (that he doesn't use all the time by the way, for example vs MC in Assembly he played bio all 3 games), but so do Hack, Byun, Happy and MarineKing...
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On August 14 2012 12:18 ZAiNs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 11:10 Dexington wrote:Pokebunny hits it on the head. I would gladly watch Naama play all day because he has a unique and successful playstyle, rather than watching Korean Protoss B who plays the same as everyone else. What is 'Korean Protoss B'. There are more unique play styles in Korea considering the high-level player pool is so much larger. Naama has a unique TvP style (that he doesn't use all the time by the way, for example vs MC in Assembly he played bio all 3 games), but so do Hack, Byun, Happy and MarineKing...
What I mean is that Koreans all play extremely similar. Look at Squirtle and Parting, two of the biggest and best Korean Protoss. The only difference between them is that one plays Templar heavy and the other plays Colossus heavy. The only Korean I remember having a style that was quite clearly his and unique recently is Moon.
Maybe things have changed since I gave up on watching GSL due to a myriad of issues I have with their tournament, but the Korean scene just felt stale to me after a while.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On August 14 2012 12:35 Dexington wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 12:18 ZAiNs wrote:On August 14 2012 11:10 Dexington wrote:Pokebunny hits it on the head. I would gladly watch Naama play all day because he has a unique and successful playstyle, rather than watching Korean Protoss B who plays the same as everyone else. What is 'Korean Protoss B'. There are more unique play styles in Korea considering the high-level player pool is so much larger. Naama has a unique TvP style (that he doesn't use all the time by the way, for example vs MC in Assembly he played bio all 3 games), but so do Hack, Byun, Happy and MarineKing... What I mean is that Koreans all play extremely similar. Look at Squirtle and Parting, two of the biggest and best Korean Protoss. The only difference between them is that one plays Templar heavy and the other plays Colossus heavy. The only Korean I remember having a style that was quite clearly his and unique recently is Moon. Maybe things have changed since I gave up on watching GSL due to a myriad of issues I have with their tournament, but the Korean scene just felt stale to me after a while.
as far as i'm aware that's more of a difference (collosus heavy with 2-base squirtle timings vs. epic templar control) than any of the european toss really show haha :p
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On August 14 2012 12:37 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 12:35 Dexington wrote:On August 14 2012 12:18 ZAiNs wrote:On August 14 2012 11:10 Dexington wrote:Pokebunny hits it on the head. I would gladly watch Naama play all day because he has a unique and successful playstyle, rather than watching Korean Protoss B who plays the same as everyone else. What is 'Korean Protoss B'. There are more unique play styles in Korea considering the high-level player pool is so much larger. Naama has a unique TvP style (that he doesn't use all the time by the way, for example vs MC in Assembly he played bio all 3 games), but so do Hack, Byun, Happy and MarineKing... What I mean is that Koreans all play extremely similar. Look at Squirtle and Parting, two of the biggest and best Korean Protoss. The only difference between them is that one plays Templar heavy and the other plays Colossus heavy. The only Korean I remember having a style that was quite clearly his and unique recently is Moon. Maybe things have changed since I gave up on watching GSL due to a myriad of issues I have with their tournament, but the Korean scene just felt stale to me after a while. as far as i'm aware that's more of a difference (collosus heavy with 2-base squirtle timings vs. epic templar control) than any of the european toss really show haha :p
Have you seen any of Bischu's PvT outside of his series vs Taeja? He does the funkiest openings of anyone. Mana is the primary Colossus user, obviously, but then there's guys like HasuObs who constantly send wave after wave of three Zealots at his opponent through the game.
My point is that every Korean Protoss I see play uses some small variant of either Squirtle or Parting play rather than finding their own style.
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United States33592 Posts
it's racism, but you don't have to be afraid of the word 
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On August 14 2012 12:09 Daniel C wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 11:07 Pokebunny wrote:
There are hundreds of really really high level Korean players that often seem interchangeable, which makes them less unique and interesting than their foreign counterparts. That is not racism... I'm not going to agree or disagree with your overall sentiment, but that was a poorly worded sentence. Your statement is implying that foreigners are more unique and interesting BECAUSE they do not play at a really really high level. I'm sure that foreigner fans (myself included) are not watching foreigners for the sole purpose of watching lower level play...
Nowhere in my statement does it say that people watch foreign players because they're worse... it implies they prefer to watch foreign players of a similar/lower level for other reasons, whatever they may be.
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EPT
