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France12906 Posts
Hahahah this is epic, Reality got smashed as MarineKing predicted :D.
Even though it was not in TvZ, the kid was annoying bragging for nothing...
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
WCG RO16:
 Mvp, BaBy, Polt, Heart, Jjakji, TaeJa, MarineKing, Keen, Hack
 Monster, HyuN
 Trap, JangBi, Paralyze, PartinG, YongHwa
wow, parting is the only gsl toss to qualify (yonghwa stuck in code b)
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Russian Federation1612 Posts
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MKP Taeja Monster is my bet. Though PartinG might make it since only 2 Zerg.
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On August 01 2012 21:35 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 21:30 NHY wrote:On August 01 2012 18:45 vthree wrote:On August 01 2012 18:41 opterown wrote:On August 01 2012 17:47 NHY wrote:On August 01 2012 16:32 vthree wrote:On August 01 2012 16:18 NHY wrote:On August 01 2012 16:15 opterown wrote:On August 01 2012 16:14 Strelok wrote:
Mappool favours terran hugely here. And by the way - any chance to watch vods from these games? Can't find anything... mappool does not favour terran, and no vods since no stream They do favor terran. These are probably 3 best terran maps. We already went through the korean stats for these maps and they are actually pretty balanced in terms of win rate (slightly toss favor with terran in the middle and zerg least favor) but the difference is within 1-2% if you add up all 3 maps. And Cloud Kingdom is much better than Entombed for terran. Anyways, they are much better than Atlantis and Metropolis in terms of balance. Overall winrate stat is as useful as bnet poll on balance. then by what metric are you saying these to be terran favoured? Likely the number of Terrans qualifying. Ironically, it is the same metric As win rate in the long run. Higher win rate = making it further into tournaments. Sorry to disappoint, but I didn't just take a look at the qualifier results and decided that mappool favors terran. There are so many contributing variables to an outcome of a SC2 match besides map&race. Even if there weren't, you'd need hundreds of data points to make any meaningful conclusion. For instance, you need more than 40-60 split for 100 data points to use it as a strong evidence that a coin toss isn't 50-50 with a fair degree of certainty. ohana: TvZ: 105-101 (51%) PvT: 92-90 (50.5%) antiga: TvZ: 362-354 (50.6%) PvT: 297-296 (50.1%) entombed: TvZ: 135-166 (44.9%) PvT: 218-236 (48%) is this enough? :D none of this looks particularly terran favoured to me. they all seem quite fair, save for entombed TvZ (favoured for zerg). even the much vaunted terran shipyard is barely above 50% (and when you consider the historical terran dominance, the fact that zerg has pulled it even over just two months shows that terrans aren't doing so great on antiga - the last month's worth of antiga tvz) how else would you decide if this map pool was terran favoured?
Look before the Queen patch. For the two months where they have to change there meta game. If you do you probably see more Terran Favored stats. Queen patch did a huge toll to changing the TvZ stats. Which does effect the stats more then anything. Now that Terran are used to playing the new meta. The stats go back to what they used to. Honestly just want to see some great matches. What makes me sad though about this tournament now only 2 Zerg made it through.
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Terran for sure in this one come on... seriously (T)Mvp, (T)Polt, , (T)TaeJa, (T)MarineKing, Cant wait this is going to be epicxx
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Is there any interviews for this? Anyone on it? O.o
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I guess WCG Korea is going to be GOMTvT all over again, epic.
Only two zergs = lol.
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This isn't for balance stats that I am trying to provide. Just trying to make a point about the maps they picked. DRG has explained that the maps picked weren't very good map selection.
WCG Stats:
Non-KeSPA Qualifiers
ZvT
30-42
Semifinal Stage
2-10
By the way in the Semifinal stage if they played against a Terran they lost. The two zerg that made it out of Semifinal Stage were both playing against protoss.
In total ZvT = 32-52.
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On August 02 2012 00:24 Dodgin wrote:
I guess WCG Korea is going to be GOMTvT all over again, epic.
Only two zergs = lol.
War. War never changes. And Terrans mean war.
TvT is my favorite matchup. Gonna be fun watching WCG and taking notes ^_^
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Really, I'm hurting vs Z on ladder as much as anyone, but let's not turn every thread into balance please...
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On August 02 2012 02:05 ragz_gt wrote:
Really, I'm hurting vs Z on ladder as much as anyone, but let's not turn every thread into balance please...
Not even talking about balance it is about the maps they picked.
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On August 01 2012 23:47 Coolness53 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 21:35 opterown wrote:On August 01 2012 21:30 NHY wrote:On August 01 2012 18:45 vthree wrote:On August 01 2012 18:41 opterown wrote:On August 01 2012 17:47 NHY wrote:On August 01 2012 16:32 vthree wrote:On August 01 2012 16:18 NHY wrote:On August 01 2012 16:15 opterown wrote:On August 01 2012 16:14 Strelok wrote:
Mappool favours terran hugely here. And by the way - any chance to watch vods from these games? Can't find anything... mappool does not favour terran, and no vods since no stream They do favor terran. These are probably 3 best terran maps. We already went through the korean stats for these maps and they are actually pretty balanced in terms of win rate (slightly toss favor with terran in the middle and zerg least favor) but the difference is within 1-2% if you add up all 3 maps. And Cloud Kingdom is much better than Entombed for terran. Anyways, they are much better than Atlantis and Metropolis in terms of balance. Overall winrate stat is as useful as bnet poll on balance. then by what metric are you saying these to be terran favoured? Likely the number of Terrans qualifying. Ironically, it is the same metric As win rate in the long run. Higher win rate = making it further into tournaments. Sorry to disappoint, but I didn't just take a look at the qualifier results and decided that mappool favors terran. There are so many contributing variables to an outcome of a SC2 match besides map&race. Even if there weren't, you'd need hundreds of data points to make any meaningful conclusion. For instance, you need more than 40-60 split for 100 data points to use it as a strong evidence that a coin toss isn't 50-50 with a fair degree of certainty. ohana: TvZ: 105-101 (51%) PvT: 92-90 (50.5%) antiga: TvZ: 362-354 (50.6%) PvT: 297-296 (50.1%) entombed: TvZ: 135-166 (44.9%) PvT: 218-236 (48%) is this enough? :D none of this looks particularly terran favoured to me. they all seem quite fair, save for entombed TvZ (favoured for zerg). even the much vaunted terran shipyard is barely above 50% (and when you consider the historical terran dominance, the fact that zerg has pulled it even over just two months shows that terrans aren't doing so great on antiga - the last month's worth of antiga tvz) how else would you decide if this map pool was terran favoured? Look before the Queen patch. For the two months where they have to change there meta game. If you do you probably see more Terran Favored stats. Queen patch did a huge toll to changing the TvZ stats. Which does effect the stats more then anything. Now that Terran are used to playing the new meta. The stats go back to what they used to. Honestly just want to see some great matches. What makes me sad though about this tournament now only 2 Zerg made it through.
And once Zergs adept to this new meta and create a new new meta, they will be as dominate as right after patch...
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On August 02 2012 02:10 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 23:47 Coolness53 wrote:On August 01 2012 21:35 opterown wrote:On August 01 2012 21:30 NHY wrote:On August 01 2012 18:45 vthree wrote:On August 01 2012 18:41 opterown wrote:On August 01 2012 17:47 NHY wrote:On August 01 2012 16:32 vthree wrote:On August 01 2012 16:18 NHY wrote:On August 01 2012 16:15 opterown wrote:
[quote]
mappool does not favour terran, and no vods since no stream They do favor terran. These are probably 3 best terran maps. We already went through the korean stats for these maps and they are actually pretty balanced in terms of win rate (slightly toss favor with terran in the middle and zerg least favor) but the difference is within 1-2% if you add up all 3 maps. And Cloud Kingdom is much better than Entombed for terran. Anyways, they are much better than Atlantis and Metropolis in terms of balance. Overall winrate stat is as useful as bnet poll on balance. then by what metric are you saying these to be terran favoured? Likely the number of Terrans qualifying. Ironically, it is the same metric As win rate in the long run. Higher win rate = making it further into tournaments. Sorry to disappoint, but I didn't just take a look at the qualifier results and decided that mappool favors terran. There are so many contributing variables to an outcome of a SC2 match besides map&race. Even if there weren't, you'd need hundreds of data points to make any meaningful conclusion. For instance, you need more than 40-60 split for 100 data points to use it as a strong evidence that a coin toss isn't 50-50 with a fair degree of certainty. ohana: TvZ: 105-101 (51%) PvT: 92-90 (50.5%) antiga: TvZ: 362-354 (50.6%) PvT: 297-296 (50.1%) entombed: TvZ: 135-166 (44.9%) PvT: 218-236 (48%) is this enough? :D none of this looks particularly terran favoured to me. they all seem quite fair, save for entombed TvZ (favoured for zerg). even the much vaunted terran shipyard is barely above 50% (and when you consider the historical terran dominance, the fact that zerg has pulled it even over just two months shows that terrans aren't doing so great on antiga - the last month's worth of antiga tvz) how else would you decide if this map pool was terran favoured? Look before the Queen patch. For the two months where they have to change there meta game. If you do you probably see more Terran Favored stats. Queen patch did a huge toll to changing the TvZ stats. Which does effect the stats more then anything. Now that Terran are used to playing the new meta. The stats go back to what they used to. Honestly just want to see some great matches. What makes me sad though about this tournament now only 2 Zerg made it through. And once Zergs adept to this new meta and create a new new meta, they will be as dominate as right after patch...
With this map pool you can't say that Terran isn't dominating with a commanding 9 out of 16 players. I am not saying it is balance issue at all, just the maps they picked. There is a reason why there is only 2 out of 16 players being Zerg. I just wished they picked better maps.
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On August 01 2012 21:30 NHY wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 18:45 vthree wrote:On August 01 2012 18:41 opterown wrote:On August 01 2012 17:47 NHY wrote:On August 01 2012 16:32 vthree wrote:On August 01 2012 16:18 NHY wrote:On August 01 2012 16:15 opterown wrote:On August 01 2012 16:14 Strelok wrote:
Mappool favours terran hugely here. And by the way - any chance to watch vods from these games? Can't find anything... mappool does not favour terran, and no vods since no stream They do favor terran. These are probably 3 best terran maps. We already went through the korean stats for these maps and they are actually pretty balanced in terms of win rate (slightly toss favor with terran in the middle and zerg least favor) but the difference is within 1-2% if you add up all 3 maps. And Cloud Kingdom is much better than Entombed for terran. Anyways, they are much better than Atlantis and Metropolis in terms of balance. Overall winrate stat is as useful as bnet poll on balance. then by what metric are you saying these to be terran favoured? Likely the number of Terrans qualifying. Ironically, it is the same metric As win rate in the long run. Higher win rate = making it further into tournaments. Sorry to disappoint, but I didn't just take a look at the qualifier results and decided that mappool favors terran. There are so many contributing variables to an outcome of a SC2 match besides map&race. Even if there weren't, you'd need hundreds of data points to make any meaningful conclusion. For instance, you need more than 40-60 split for 100 data points to use it as a strong evidence that a coin toss isn't 50-50 with a fair degree of certainty.
lol, that is the definition of statistics? Of course, there are many variables to a SC2. But say Nestea had a 80% ZvZ winrate over 30 matches. You would say he was dominate in this matchup. You could technically argue he only played bad zergs or for some reason, the zergs just derp when facing Nestea.
I know the statistics are not the 'optimal' factor when looking at balance. Only problem is, all the other methods are WORSE. I don't know how other determine map balance, but many sight specific games to make their arguement which is even WORSE then sighting stats. Some posters will claim that Atlantis Spaceship is not bad for terran since Gumiho showed that you can triple expand off 1 rax to counter zerg. I know a sample size of 100 is not optimal but it is better than a sample size of ONE.
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On August 02 2012 02:16 Coolness53 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 02:10 vthree wrote:On August 01 2012 23:47 Coolness53 wrote:On August 01 2012 21:35 opterown wrote:On August 01 2012 21:30 NHY wrote:On August 01 2012 18:45 vthree wrote:On August 01 2012 18:41 opterown wrote:On August 01 2012 17:47 NHY wrote:On August 01 2012 16:32 vthree wrote:On August 01 2012 16:18 NHY wrote:
[quote]
They do favor terran. These are probably 3 best terran maps. We already went through the korean stats for these maps and they are actually pretty balanced in terms of win rate (slightly toss favor with terran in the middle and zerg least favor) but the difference is within 1-2% if you add up all 3 maps. And Cloud Kingdom is much better than Entombed for terran. Anyways, they are much better than Atlantis and Metropolis in terms of balance. Overall winrate stat is as useful as bnet poll on balance. then by what metric are you saying these to be terran favoured? Likely the number of Terrans qualifying. Ironically, it is the same metric As win rate in the long run. Higher win rate = making it further into tournaments. Sorry to disappoint, but I didn't just take a look at the qualifier results and decided that mappool favors terran. There are so many contributing variables to an outcome of a SC2 match besides map&race. Even if there weren't, you'd need hundreds of data points to make any meaningful conclusion. For instance, you need more than 40-60 split for 100 data points to use it as a strong evidence that a coin toss isn't 50-50 with a fair degree of certainty. ohana: TvZ: 105-101 (51%) PvT: 92-90 (50.5%) antiga: TvZ: 362-354 (50.6%) PvT: 297-296 (50.1%) entombed: TvZ: 135-166 (44.9%) PvT: 218-236 (48%) is this enough? :D none of this looks particularly terran favoured to me. they all seem quite fair, save for entombed TvZ (favoured for zerg). even the much vaunted terran shipyard is barely above 50% (and when you consider the historical terran dominance, the fact that zerg has pulled it even over just two months shows that terrans aren't doing so great on antiga - the last month's worth of antiga tvz) how else would you decide if this map pool was terran favoured? Look before the Queen patch. For the two months where they have to change there meta game. If you do you probably see more Terran Favored stats. Queen patch did a huge toll to changing the TvZ stats. Which does effect the stats more then anything. Now that Terran are used to playing the new meta. The stats go back to what they used to. Honestly just want to see some great matches. What makes me sad though about this tournament now only 2 Zerg made it through. And once Zergs adept to this new meta and create a new new meta, they will be as dominate as right after patch... With this map pool you can't say that Terran isn't dominating with a commanding 9 out of 16 players. I am not saying it is balance issue at all, just the maps they picked. There is a reason why there is only 2 out of 16 players being Zerg. I just wished they picked better maps.
So you feel that using player advancement in Bo3 single elim format is valid while overall win rate is not?
And 'better' maps would be Atlantis Spaceship. Metropolis, Emtombed?
So,
IM protoss advances but is not Seed
ST terran advances but is not Bomber
TSL zerg advances but is not Symbol
MVP zerg advances but is not DRG
This just to show how huge the depth of talent in Korea right now. And this is before all the Kespa players have caught up.
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It's funny that MKP is referred to as MKP in the leveltory bracket.. Can't think of anyone else's team being part of a nickname.
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Are the replays gonna be released?
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On August 02 2012 02:05 ragz_gt wrote:
Really, I'm hurting vs Z on ladder as much as anyone, but let's not turn every thread into balance please...
I would say that ZvT balance issues only exist on sub pro levels. Terran units are fairly versatile and with godly micro they can really start to shine which is why at the GSL code S levels these terrans adjusted fairly quickly and are startign to make zerg (and protoss) look silly, once more, with their unit control while macroing never ending streams of terran units. But once you come down (even lower code A) you start to see zerg really tear through terran.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On August 02 2012 01:54 Coolness53 wrote:
This isn't for balance stats that I am trying to provide. Just trying to make a point about the maps they picked. DRG has explained that the maps picked weren't very good map selection.
WCG Stats:
Non-KeSPA Qualifiers
ZvT
30-42
Semifinal Stage
2-10
By the way in the Semifinal stage if they played against a Terran they lost. The two zerg that made it out of Semifinal Stage were both playing against protoss.
In total ZvT = 32-52.
DRG is zerg, of course he will prefer maps like metropolis and atlantis spaceship over antiga, lol.
On August 02 2012 02:16 Coolness53 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 02:10 vthree wrote:On August 01 2012 23:47 Coolness53 wrote:On August 01 2012 21:35 opterown wrote:On August 01 2012 21:30 NHY wrote:On August 01 2012 18:45 vthree wrote:On August 01 2012 18:41 opterown wrote:On August 01 2012 17:47 NHY wrote:On August 01 2012 16:32 vthree wrote:On August 01 2012 16:18 NHY wrote:
[quote]
They do favor terran. These are probably 3 best terran maps. We already went through the korean stats for these maps and they are actually pretty balanced in terms of win rate (slightly toss favor with terran in the middle and zerg least favor) but the difference is within 1-2% if you add up all 3 maps. And Cloud Kingdom is much better than Entombed for terran. Anyways, they are much better than Atlantis and Metropolis in terms of balance. Overall winrate stat is as useful as bnet poll on balance. then by what metric are you saying these to be terran favoured? Likely the number of Terrans qualifying. Ironically, it is the same metric As win rate in the long run. Higher win rate = making it further into tournaments. Sorry to disappoint, but I didn't just take a look at the qualifier results and decided that mappool favors terran. There are so many contributing variables to an outcome of a SC2 match besides map&race. Even if there weren't, you'd need hundreds of data points to make any meaningful conclusion. For instance, you need more than 40-60 split for 100 data points to use it as a strong evidence that a coin toss isn't 50-50 with a fair degree of certainty. ohana: TvZ: 105-101 (51%) PvT: 92-90 (50.5%) antiga: TvZ: 362-354 (50.6%) PvT: 297-296 (50.1%) entombed: TvZ: 135-166 (44.9%) PvT: 218-236 (48%) is this enough? :D none of this looks particularly terran favoured to me. they all seem quite fair, save for entombed TvZ (favoured for zerg). even the much vaunted terran shipyard is barely above 50% (and when you consider the historical terran dominance, the fact that zerg has pulled it even over just two months shows that terrans aren't doing so great on antiga - the last month's worth of antiga tvz) how else would you decide if this map pool was terran favoured? Look before the Queen patch. For the two months where they have to change there meta game. If you do you probably see more Terran Favored stats. Queen patch did a huge toll to changing the TvZ stats. Which does effect the stats more then anything. Now that Terran are used to playing the new meta. The stats go back to what they used to. Honestly just want to see some great matches. What makes me sad though about this tournament now only 2 Zerg made it through. And once Zergs adept to this new meta and create a new new meta, they will be as dominate as right after patch... With this map pool you can't say that Terran isn't dominating with a commanding 9 out of 16 players. I am not saying it is balance issue at all, just the maps they picked. There is a reason why there is only 2 out of 16 players being Zerg. I just wished they picked better maps.
also if you look at OSL qualifiers, 2 terrans advanced out of 12, and only because they avoided zergs. so this can be seen as statistical variance, mmm. these things happen every now and then.
On August 02 2012 00:13 ragz_gt wrote:
Is there any interviews for this? Anyone on it? O.o
there are interviews :D not sure if translated yet
On August 02 2012 04:35 ZerphyR wrote:
Are the replays gonna be released?
highly unlikely haha
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EPT
