so you want them to 4 gate each other? colossi are a part of the army composition of course they are going to build them
I really don't get what's wrong with collosi/archon/immortal/zealot fights that people hate so much, It's no worse than any other group of units attacking each other.
If It's " because lasers " well I can say the same shit about broodlords, all they do is shoot zerglings with a timer on them, how boring.
so you want them to 4 gate each other? colossi are a part of the army composition of course they are going to build them
I really don't get what's wrong with collosi/archon/immortal/zealot fights that people hate so much, It's no worse than any other group of units attacking each other.
i find 4gate more interesting to watch (micro wars and hidden pylons etc) :D it's just a matter of aesthetics for me
i don't like collosi wars and i don't like roach-infestor battles either. just looks bad
for example i love blink stalker play, etc. just looks nicer imo
so you want them to 4 gate each other? colossi are a part of the army composition of course they are going to build them
I really don't get what's wrong with collosi/archon/immortal/zealot fights that people hate so much, It's no worse than any other group of units attacking each other.
i find 4gate more interesting to watch (micro wars and hidden pylons etc) :D it's just a matter of aesthetics for me
i don't like collosi wars and i don't like roach-infestor battles either. just looks bad
for example i love blink stalker play, etc. just looks nicer imo
At least infestor roach battles have room for roach runbys, infestor harass, good army positioning/flanks, and can lead to ultralisks in the lategame. Colossus wars are just plain boring and they never really go to mothership vs feedback or any other interesting harass and decision making in pro level. It's just "I have 2 more colossus than you gg" as the lasers fire.
I love immortal drops, blink obs play, phoenix builds, etc. I just can't stand the colossus turtle in that matchup.
i think the reason why i dislike those two particular engagements is because the action is difficult to follow the collosi lasers obscure a lot of what the other units ie stalkers zealots immortals and archons are doing underneath the collosi. so it's hard for me to tell what's happening and how the engagement is going. same for roach infestor - once both sides have thrown their fungals, everything is just a fat green blob, and it can be hard to tell whose units are whose those are the two i have the most trouble with myself; i can appreciate the strategy and thought leading up to it, but it's difficult for me to follow in-battle micro so i don't like watching them. more often than not, after the battle, if the armies were pretty even beforehand, i am a bit wtf at how one player came out ahead
I want MC to win, but part of me hopes that DRG will pull through, if only because if MC wins then all the Stephano fanboys will begin saying "MC lost to Stephano, but won against DRG, so therefore Stephano is better than DRG" and start the whole "Stephano is the best Zerg in the world" discussion again -.-
On July 19 2012 12:06 Whatson wrote: I want MC to win, but part of me hopes that DRG will pull through, if only because if MC wins then all the Stephano fanboys will begin saying "MC lost to Stephano, but won against DRG, so therefore Stephano is better than DRG" and start the whole "Stephano is the best Zerg in the world" discussion again -.-
On July 19 2012 12:15 Juliette wrote: PvP PvP PvP PvP
gogogo MC/Seed!
PvP
PvP
PvP!!!
But yeah I really hate Collosus Wars, it's just unbelievably boring. I know that there's also a lot of positioning involved (who has the better concave) and target firing (who can kill Collosus first), but the battle itself is just... so... boring. It doesn't help that Collosi block everything we see with their huge heads and lasers, so all we see is pewpewlaserbeams. Another problem is everything from the 2nd Colossus popping and the final engagement: usually, absolutely nothing. Players will never engage without a Collosus advantage (unless they go for different tech, as we saw recently [what game was it, on Ohana, when one player went Templar storm and absolutely crushed the Colossi ball?]) and never attack once there are enough Collosi to defend any all-in. There's also rarely any harassment or army movement aside from posturing. I really hope someone starts using that templar tech route more (storm everything, Collo with no support die quickly) and show that it's a legit choice. MC vs Seed has the potential to be a trancendental PvP series considering their combined creativeness.
To add, ZvZ has runbys, crazy tech switches, Infestor harassment, and different unit comps. TvT has positional battles, Sky Terran transition, Mech vs Bio (I wish this happened more), and doom drops to name a few. PvP needs more variety, and I am hoping a finals will show us that.
Personally I liked the old 4gate vs 4gate battles where it was all about micro and split-second decision making. The addition of blink, phoenix, robo, DT builds just make it seem even more coin-flippy to me.
On July 19 2012 12:32 Whatson wrote: Personally I liked the old 4gate vs 4gate battles where it was all about micro and split-second decision making. The addition of blink, phoenix, robo, DT builds just make it seem even more coin-flippy to me.
DT vs 1-gate expand into 3-gate or stargate is the only really coinflippy scenario now because of lack of detection, in my opinion. Most of the other builds can defend each other as long as it's not super greedy expand (one gate expand into robo) vs all-in.
On July 19 2012 12:15 Juliette wrote: PvP PvP PvP PvP
gogogo MC/Seed!
PvP
PvP
PvP!!!
But yeah I really hate Collosus Wars, it's just unbelievably boring. I know that there's also a lot of positioning involved (who has the better concave) and target firing (who can kill Collosus first), but the battle itself is just... so... boring. It doesn't help that Collosi block everything we see with their huge heads and lasers, so all we see is pewpewlaserbeams. Another problem is everything from the 2nd Colossus popping and the final engagement: usually, absolutely nothing. Players will never engage without a Collosus advantage (unless they go for different tech, as we saw recently [what game was it, on Ohana, when one player went Templar storm and absolutely crushed the Colossi ball?]) and never attack once there are enough Collosi to defend any all-in. There's also rarely any harassment or army movement aside from posturing.
Colossus wars are boring cause the player to initiate an engagement tends to lose, unless they have a much better position.
The whole focus of lategame pvp is posturing, but like you said, its boring to watch stuff blow up to lasers so the posturing parts really get overshadowed (and even then, watching them move the armies around isn't the best). That's why I used to love the early PvPs, from the 4gate battles to robo/twilight.
However the bolded is definitely not true. The last 2 3+ base PvPs I've seen - one in IPLTAC between First and Parting was won because of zealot harass drawing the army. Before that, there was the GSTL game that lasted 50 minutes, I remember LRing it but not who was playing that involved mainly harass as the action because neither player wanted to engage.
Late PvP is similar to PvZ, mostly unfigured out because once you get to 3 bases you may as well be on all the bases, since your army is gonna be good enough to defend them. No one knows how to play out the small advantages at that stage because for like a year and a half PvP was all 4 gate battles. Same for PvZ: 2base allins were the main strategy so 3 base protoss play is still being developed and all we see are mothership vortexes and hope.
On July 19 2012 12:15 Juliette wrote: PvP PvP PvP PvP
gogogo MC/Seed!
PvP
PvP
PvP!!!
But yeah I really hate Collosus Wars, it's just unbelievably boring. I know that there's also a lot of positioning involved (who has the better concave) and target firing (who can kill Collosus first), but the battle itself is just... so... boring. It doesn't help that Collosi block everything we see with their huge heads and lasers, so all we see is pewpewlaserbeams. Another problem is everything from the 2nd Colossus popping and the final engagement: usually, absolutely nothing. Players will never engage without a Collosus advantage (unless they go for different tech, as we saw recently [what game was it, on Ohana, when one player went Templar storm and absolutely crushed the Colossi ball?]) and never attack once there are enough Collosi to defend any all-in. There's also rarely any harassment or army movement aside from posturing.
Colossus wars are boring cause the player to initiate an engagement tends to lose, unless they have a much better position.
The whole focus of lategame pvp is posturing, but like you said, its boring to watch stuff blow up to lasers so the posturing parts really get overshadowed (and even then, watching them move the armies around isn't the best). That's why I used to love the early PvPs, from the 4gate battles to robo/twilight.
However the bolded is definitely not true. The last 2 3+ base PvPs I've seen - one in IPLTAC between First and Parting was won because of zealot harass drawing the army. Before that, there was the GSTL game that lasted 50 minutes, I remember LRing it but not who was playing that involved mainly harass as the action because neither player wanted to engage.
Late PvP is similar to PvZ, mostly unfigured out because once you get to 3 bases you may as well be on all the bases, since your army is gonna be good enough to defend them. No one knows how to play out the small advantages at that stage because for like a year and a half PvP was all 4 gate battles. Same for PvZ: 2base allins were the main strategy so 3 base protoss play is still being developed and all we see are mothership vortexes and hope.
Early/mid game PvP is awesome, because of the intense micro-fights and the variety of builds we see (blink obs, fast immortals to counter blink, DT expand, etc etc). Tons of mind games too.
Harassment tactics usually only occur before the "sit back and wait for my colossus count" stage and after the "okay it's time to move out" stage. It's the in-between that I'm really complaining about, that time when everyone is waiting for their collosi while hiding in their base. Both players are busy building collosi, camping in their bases. Rarely any chance to harass. Rarely anything happens. It's that part I don't like (as well as the eventual battle).
I think I remember the Ohana game I mentioned earlier, I think it was Hero vs Alicia from IPL TAC? Hero storm drops Alicia while distracting with Blink+obs (Alicia has a couple of Collosi at this point, iirc), then crushes Alicia's Collosi-based army with Templar + Immortal + Zealots, storming Alicia's support troops to kill them off instantly and then steam rolling the Collosi (there were like 6 or 7?) with immortals and blink stalkers. I wish more Protosses experimented as much as Hero.
On July 19 2012 12:06 Whatson wrote: I want MC to win, but part of me hopes that DRG will pull through, if only because if MC wins then all the Stephano fanboys will begin saying "MC lost to Stephano, but won against DRG, so therefore Stephano is better than DRG" and start the whole "Stephano is the best Zerg in the world" discussion again -.-
No dice. Nerchio is better than both atm
hahaha you can't be serious. DRG is the best Zerg in the world by a mile.
EPT
