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[Code S] Semi-Final 2012 GSL Season 2 - Page 148

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 146 147 148 149 150 157 Next
Alryk
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States2718 Posts
May 10 2012 13:39 GMT
#2941
Sad day I missed my alarm but both my picks lost so maybe its good. XD
Go go squirtle!!
Team Liquid, IM, ViOlet!
awwnuts07
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States621 Posts
May 10 2012 13:39 GMT
#2942
Was hoping HerO would make it all the way through, but at least it's not going to be a PvP final.
I'm a noob
Veldril
Profile Joined August 2010
Thailand1817 Posts
May 10 2012 13:40 GMT
#2943
On May 10 2012 21:31 Garnet wrote:
Mvp milking as much money as possible before the elephants come.


He will try to achieve the unthinkable: winning 6 GSL before getting his wrist fixed, and transcend to a godhood.
Without love, we can't see anything. Without love, the truth can't be seen. - Umineko no Naku Koro Ni
Giga
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United Kingdom114 Posts
May 10 2012 13:41 GMT
#2944
Sad that the two ppl I wanted to win lost :/ Atleast it's PvT
은하
liberate71
Profile Joined October 2011
Australia10252 Posts
May 10 2012 13:43 GMT
#2945
On May 10 2012 21:31 Garnet wrote:
Mvp milking as much money as possible before the elephants come.


You talking about ForGG/July/NaDa/BoxeR type Elephants?
Minelord Stimfestor, also known as karma.
pms
Profile Joined April 2008
Poland611 Posts
May 10 2012 13:46 GMT
#2946
On May 10 2012 21:32 FairForever wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2012 21:06 zefreak wrote:
On May 10 2012 21:03 Chunhyang wrote:
On May 10 2012 20:52 HolyArrow wrote:
On May 10 2012 20:46 Chunhyang wrote:
On May 10 2012 20:43 HolyArrow wrote:
On May 10 2012 20:42 WhosTheSmuRf wrote:
On May 10 2012 20:39 HolyArrow wrote:
On May 10 2012 20:36 Noocta wrote:
Squirtle will be harder than Parting imo, but I really hope MVP win.
Mainly because I don't want another protoss winning but mvp getting a 4th championship would be cool aswell.


"Another Protoss winning"

2 Protoss wins
5 Zerg wins
6 Terran wins

Why do so many things Terran fans say contradict hard numbers? "Protoss dominating in the GSL" -> http://www.gomtv.net/records/index.gom?searchType=3&race=P&vsrace=T&season=2012&leaguetype=20&leagueid=27062&gamever=0&mapid=0

"Don't want another Protoss winning" -> Protoss has by far the least GSL wins

Blows my mind at how warped perspectives can become.


Well said


What can I say, I like to back up my arguments with hard facts, unlike many people around here


How does "I don't want another Protoss winning" contradict the fact that they have the least GSL final wins?

He never said that Protoss has too many wins, or that they have the most. Maybe he's a hater, but he just doesn't want Protoss to win again. That's all. I'm just sayin.


That's a fine point, but that just annoys me by principle. I'm a pretty empathetic person - I can understand that people really get into the game and root massively for a certain player or race. But I also believe that all fans deserve the satisfaction of seeing their favorite race win a fair amount. If the situations were magically reversed and Protoss switched places with Terran in terms of big-picture GSL success, I'd be extremely okay with a Terran champion or two, because it's about time - I'd say it's only fair to the Terran fans to see more Terran winners. But, that's not reality. The reality is that Terran has had the most champions and Protoss has had by far the least, and it just annoys me that despite all this, some people really want to see yet another Terran Code S win. Don't get me wrong - I clearly have no greater moral basis for my stance on this, and people who really want to see another Terran win aren't objectively wrong in any way. It's just my personal philosophy that all fans should see ideally their race win a roughly proportionate amount of times, because everyone deserves to be satisfied as viewers.


Ok. But I'm a Celtics fan, I want them to win everything, every game, every time, and I don't care if any other team ever wins another championship and their fans cry in agony.

He may like his Terran just like I love my Celtics. Or, like I was saying, he may just be a hater. I'm leaning towards the latter lol. His tone implies it anyway.

Anyway, with three races, how many GSL seasons are needed so that there is a statistically significant number so we can objectively say that one race is better than the rest? I remember some guy saying that in an NBA series, it would take a 43 game series so that we can really say with certainty "the better team won". How about if there are three teams/races? Anyone know?


Umm.. it would take a large sample even between just two players, let alone a statistical average of players from each race (one player could simply be better and skew the results).

By the time the sample size is large enough to draw any meaningful conclusion, the game will be unrecognizable.


I hate when balance is brought up, because I think the game is pretty okay. But you could use different methodologies rather than just "GSL Champ" to figure out if one race is better than the others. There are games that matter other than the championship match - in fact the championship match is statistically a TERRIBLE way to determine the best race, even if you had a large enough population.

Why?

Let's say there's one player who would, hypothetically, beat everyone else, regardless of his skill level. If you use Champions as a way to determine, you would say his race is imbalanced. You really should be using top 16 or top 8 or something, in which case, as each race should theoretically get 1/3 of the representation, you could probably make a sample after 5 or 6 GSLs. That being said, 5 to 6 GSLs is a long time so it wouldn't be very relevant, but it would be better than using only champions/


You are actually NOT RIGHT. If you had a large enough population (e.g. 5-10 years of GSL finals) you SHOULD have the same ammount of races taking the title. PLEASE EDUCATE YOURSELF WITH SC1 HISTORY.
Severedevil
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4839 Posts
May 10 2012 13:46 GMT
#2947
MVP has three GSL gold medals and one silver.
Protoss has two GSL gold medals and two silvers.

Protoss has to beat MVP in this finals, just to tie a single Terran player for medals...
My strategy is to fork people.
Censor
Profile Joined March 2011
United States122 Posts
May 10 2012 13:46 GMT
#2948
On May 10 2012 22:43 liberate71 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2012 21:31 Garnet wrote:
Mvp milking as much money as possible before the elephants come.


You talking about ForGG/July/NaDa/BoxeR type Elephants?

No, he's talking about the real elephants. TBLS and the other top broodwar players like Fantasy, Jangbi, etc.
Fantasy | Hydra | Flash
Severedevil
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4839 Posts
May 10 2012 13:49 GMT
#2949
On May 10 2012 22:43 liberate71 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2012 21:31 Garnet wrote:
Mvp milking as much money as possible before the elephants come.


You talking about ForGG/July/NaDa/BoxeR type Elephants?

No, and you betray your ignorance. July and Boxer were not remotely competitive when they quit Broodwar. Nada and ForGG were average at best.
My strategy is to fork people.
Zealot Lord
Profile Joined May 2010
Hong Kong748 Posts
May 10 2012 13:50 GMT
#2950
On May 10 2012 20:52 HolyArrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2012 20:46 Chunhyang wrote:
On May 10 2012 20:43 HolyArrow wrote:
On May 10 2012 20:42 WhosTheSmuRf wrote:
On May 10 2012 20:39 HolyArrow wrote:
On May 10 2012 20:36 Noocta wrote:
Squirtle will be harder than Parting imo, but I really hope MVP win.
Mainly because I don't want another protoss winning but mvp getting a 4th championship would be cool aswell.


"Another Protoss winning"

2 Protoss wins
5 Zerg wins
6 Terran wins

Why do so many things Terran fans say contradict hard numbers? "Protoss dominating in the GSL" -> http://www.gomtv.net/records/index.gom?searchType=3&race=P&vsrace=T&season=2012&leaguetype=20&leagueid=27062&gamever=0&mapid=0

"Don't want another Protoss winning" -> Protoss has by far the least GSL wins

Blows my mind at how warped perspectives can become.


Well said


What can I say, I like to back up my arguments with hard facts, unlike many people around here


How does "I don't want another Protoss winning" contradict the fact that they have the least GSL final wins?

He never said that Protoss has too many wins, or that they have the most. Maybe he's a hater, but he just doesn't want Protoss to win again. That's all. I'm just sayin.


That's a fine point, but that just annoys me by principle. I'm a pretty empathetic person - I can understand that people really get into the game and root massively for a certain player or race. But I also believe that all fans deserve the satisfaction of seeing their favorite race win a fair amount. If the situations were magically reversed and Protoss switched places with Terran in terms of big-picture GSL success, I'd be extremely okay with a Terran champion or two, because it's about time - I'd say it's only fair to the Terran fans to see more Terran winners. But, that's not reality. The reality is that Terran has had the most champions and Protoss has had by far the least, and it just annoys me that despite all this, some people really want to see yet another Terran Code S win. Don't get me wrong - I clearly have no greater moral basis for my stance on this, and people who really want to see another Terran win aren't objectively wrong in any way. It's just my personal philosophy that all fans should see ideally their race win a roughly proportionate amount of times, because everyone deserves to be satisfied as viewers.


Damn, that's a high quality post right there - well said.
Aeroplaneoverthesea
Profile Joined April 2012
United Kingdom1977 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-10 13:52:53
May 10 2012 13:52 GMT
#2951
On May 10 2012 22:46 pms wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2012 21:32 FairForever wrote:
On May 10 2012 21:06 zefreak wrote:
On May 10 2012 21:03 Chunhyang wrote:
On May 10 2012 20:52 HolyArrow wrote:
On May 10 2012 20:46 Chunhyang wrote:
On May 10 2012 20:43 HolyArrow wrote:
On May 10 2012 20:42 WhosTheSmuRf wrote:
On May 10 2012 20:39 HolyArrow wrote:
On May 10 2012 20:36 Noocta wrote:
Squirtle will be harder than Parting imo, but I really hope MVP win.
Mainly because I don't want another protoss winning but mvp getting a 4th championship would be cool aswell.


"Another Protoss winning"

2 Protoss wins
5 Zerg wins
6 Terran wins

Why do so many things Terran fans say contradict hard numbers? "Protoss dominating in the GSL" -> http://www.gomtv.net/records/index.gom?searchType=3&race=P&vsrace=T&season=2012&leaguetype=20&leagueid=27062&gamever=0&mapid=0

"Don't want another Protoss winning" -> Protoss has by far the least GSL wins

Blows my mind at how warped perspectives can become.


Well said


What can I say, I like to back up my arguments with hard facts, unlike many people around here


How does "I don't want another Protoss winning" contradict the fact that they have the least GSL final wins?

He never said that Protoss has too many wins, or that they have the most. Maybe he's a hater, but he just doesn't want Protoss to win again. That's all. I'm just sayin.


That's a fine point, but that just annoys me by principle. I'm a pretty empathetic person - I can understand that people really get into the game and root massively for a certain player or race. But I also believe that all fans deserve the satisfaction of seeing their favorite race win a fair amount. If the situations were magically reversed and Protoss switched places with Terran in terms of big-picture GSL success, I'd be extremely okay with a Terran champion or two, because it's about time - I'd say it's only fair to the Terran fans to see more Terran winners. But, that's not reality. The reality is that Terran has had the most champions and Protoss has had by far the least, and it just annoys me that despite all this, some people really want to see yet another Terran Code S win. Don't get me wrong - I clearly have no greater moral basis for my stance on this, and people who really want to see another Terran win aren't objectively wrong in any way. It's just my personal philosophy that all fans should see ideally their race win a roughly proportionate amount of times, because everyone deserves to be satisfied as viewers.


Ok. But I'm a Celtics fan, I want them to win everything, every game, every time, and I don't care if any other team ever wins another championship and their fans cry in agony.

He may like his Terran just like I love my Celtics. Or, like I was saying, he may just be a hater. I'm leaning towards the latter lol. His tone implies it anyway.

Anyway, with three races, how many GSL seasons are needed so that there is a statistically significant number so we can objectively say that one race is better than the rest? I remember some guy saying that in an NBA series, it would take a 43 game series so that we can really say with certainty "the better team won". How about if there are three teams/races? Anyone know?


Umm.. it would take a large sample even between just two players, let alone a statistical average of players from each race (one player could simply be better and skew the results).

By the time the sample size is large enough to draw any meaningful conclusion, the game will be unrecognizable.


I hate when balance is brought up, because I think the game is pretty okay. But you could use different methodologies rather than just "GSL Champ" to figure out if one race is better than the others. There are games that matter other than the championship match - in fact the championship match is statistically a TERRIBLE way to determine the best race, even if you had a large enough population.

Why?

Let's say there's one player who would, hypothetically, beat everyone else, regardless of his skill level. If you use Champions as a way to determine, you would say his race is imbalanced. You really should be using top 16 or top 8 or something, in which case, as each race should theoretically get 1/3 of the representation, you could probably make a sample after 5 or 6 GSLs. That being said, 5 to 6 GSLs is a long time so it wouldn't be very relevant, but it would be better than using only champions/


You are actually NOT RIGHT. If you had a large enough population (e.g. 5-10 years of GSL finals) you SHOULD have the same ammount of races taking the title. PLEASE EDUCATE YOURSELF WITH SC1 HISTORY.


No you shouldn't. What a bizzare opinion. Why would you assume that all three races are played by absolutely equally skilled players and the same number of players?
Ocedic
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1808 Posts
May 10 2012 13:53 GMT
#2952
On May 10 2012 22:46 Censor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2012 22:43 liberate71 wrote:
On May 10 2012 21:31 Garnet wrote:
Mvp milking as much money as possible before the elephants come.


You talking about ForGG/July/NaDa/BoxeR type Elephants?

No, he's talking about the real elephants. TBLS and the other top broodwar players like Fantasy, Jangbi, etc.


I haven't followed the SC2 scene in a while. I do know that Kespa and Blizzard reconciled and SC2 will be run by them, but have players like Fantasy/Jangbi been confirmed to play SC2 or is that just an assumption?
vndods
Profile Joined October 2011
United States3743 Posts
May 10 2012 13:53 GMT
#2953
Such a bad season of games in the later rounds of this GSL. But I guess that's to be expected when there's so many Protosses.
n3gative
Profile Joined May 2009
Canada369 Posts
May 10 2012 13:53 GMT
#2954
squirtle's unstoppable, MVP's going dowwwwwwwn
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
May 10 2012 13:54 GMT
#2955
fyeahhhh mvp <3
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
-TesteR-
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada1165 Posts
May 10 2012 13:56 GMT
#2956
On May 10 2012 22:43 liberate71 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2012 21:31 Garnet wrote:
Mvp milking as much money as possible before the elephants come.


You talking about ForGG/July/NaDa/BoxeR type Elephants?


I read somewhere even flash said himself he expects to get spanked in the first year of sc2, this whole elephant business is just desperate bw fans :/
vndods
Profile Joined October 2011
United States3743 Posts
May 10 2012 13:56 GMT
#2957
Though I am quite happy that MVP stopped the Parting hype train dead in it's tracks. Best PvT in the world, hilarious.
Aeroplaneoverthesea
Profile Joined April 2012
United Kingdom1977 Posts
May 10 2012 13:57 GMT
#2958
On May 10 2012 20:52 HolyArrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2012 20:46 Chunhyang wrote:
On May 10 2012 20:43 HolyArrow wrote:
On May 10 2012 20:42 WhosTheSmuRf wrote:
On May 10 2012 20:39 HolyArrow wrote:
On May 10 2012 20:36 Noocta wrote:
Squirtle will be harder than Parting imo, but I really hope MVP win.
Mainly because I don't want another protoss winning but mvp getting a 4th championship would be cool aswell.


"Another Protoss winning"

2 Protoss wins
5 Zerg wins
6 Terran wins

Why do so many things Terran fans say contradict hard numbers? "Protoss dominating in the GSL" -> http://www.gomtv.net/records/index.gom?searchType=3&race=P&vsrace=T&season=2012&leaguetype=20&leagueid=27062&gamever=0&mapid=0

"Don't want another Protoss winning" -> Protoss has by far the least GSL wins

Blows my mind at how warped perspectives can become.


Well said


What can I say, I like to back up my arguments with hard facts, unlike many people around here


How does "I don't want another Protoss winning" contradict the fact that they have the least GSL final wins?

He never said that Protoss has too many wins, or that they have the most. Maybe he's a hater, but he just doesn't want Protoss to win again. That's all. I'm just sayin.


That's a fine point, but that just annoys me by principle. I'm a pretty empathetic person - I can understand that people really get into the game and root massively for a certain player or race. But I also believe that all fans deserve the satisfaction of seeing their favorite race win a fair amount. If the situations were magically reversed and Protoss switched places with Terran in terms of big-picture GSL success, I'd be extremely okay with a Terran champion or two, because it's about time - I'd say it's only fair to the Terran fans to see more Terran winners. But, that's not reality. The reality is that Terran has had the most champions and Protoss has had by far the least, and it just annoys me that despite all this, some people really want to see yet another Terran Code S win. Don't get me wrong - I clearly have no greater moral basis for my stance on this, and people who really want to see another Terran win aren't objectively wrong in any way. It's just my personal philosophy that all fans should see ideally their race win a roughly proportionate amount of times, because everyone deserves to be satisfied as viewers.


People don't want a Protoss to win because most people (including Blizzard) know that right now Protoss is too good and while Squirtle/Parting/Hero/Oz are good players it's no coincidence they just all became instantly top of the world players the second Blizzard nerfed ghosts, buffed Immortals and buffed Protoss upgrades.

I don't really have any racial preference but I want Mvp to crush this kid into the floor to show that overall skill and greatness like Mvp has transcends Blizzard flavour of the month balance patches.

When another Protoss wins a Star League I want it to be a real legit win, not a 70% legit win with Blizzard giving them a nice helping hand.
pms
Profile Joined April 2008
Poland611 Posts
May 10 2012 13:59 GMT
#2959
On May 10 2012 21:32 shadymmj wrote:
i would not say it's imbalance but ludicrous volatility in all parts of the matchup. it's just not very fun watching one army melt completely in about 10 secs after waiting for 15 minutes, or a 1/1/1 all-in. When Browder said terrible terrible damage he was absolutely right for TvP and ZvP.


I think that this is the REAL problem of SC2. But I think it's not only about TvP and ZvP. Also it's about TvZ. And I think there are two main causes of it:
1. Medivacs, which make bio balls extremelly resilient.
2. Collosus, which are meant to kill the bio ball, but themselves they are the backbone of toss death-ball.

I think medivacs heal too fast, and collosus are basicaly the worst unit in the game, even though I'm a toss user.
Aeroplaneoverthesea
Profile Joined April 2012
United Kingdom1977 Posts
May 10 2012 14:00 GMT
#2960
On May 10 2012 22:56 vndods wrote:
Though I am quite happy that MVP stopped the Parting hype train dead in it's tracks. Best PvT in the world, hilarious.


He is the best PvT in the world, easily. That doesn't mean he has a 100% chance to beat a great player like Mvp.

DRG doesn't stop being the best ZvP in the world when he loses to MC. When great player play, someone has to lose.
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