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MLG Spring Arena [Day 3] - Page 97

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sereniity
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Sweden1159 Posts
April 23 2012 09:08 GMT
#1921
Cool that DRG finally breaks the curse and beats MKP, I think it's kind of lame though that he went 9-12 in pool play and still advances, why isn't it 4 ppl that advance from pool play, rather than 6? Feels rather silly that MKP goes down from 6-1 in pool play vs some1 that went 3-4...

Congrats to DRG either way!
"I am Day9, Holy shit!"
Tribuno
Profile Joined August 2011
Italy261 Posts
April 23 2012 09:23 GMT
#1922
On April 23 2012 12:21 lorkac wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2012 10:17 ticklishmusic wrote:
So by ELO...

Best TvT: MMA, Taeja, MVP, aLive
Best TvP: Bomber, Puma, aLive, Supernova
Best TvZ: Jjakji, MMA, Taeja, MVP

Best ZvT: Leenock, DRG, Curious, July
Best ZvP: True, DRG, Nestea, Losira
Best ZvZ: Nestea, DRG, Leenock, Seal

Best PvT: Parting, Younghwa, Puzzle, Hongun
Best PvP: Squirtle, Finale, Oz, GuineaPig
Best PvZ: Squirtle, JYP, Crank, Brown

Squirtle best vP overall
MMA best vT overall
Squirtle best vZ overall

In case anyone was curious. Some of these players are a bit wtf.

Hilariously, MKP is 5th in every matchup. Of course, ELO is more or a "weighted average", so it reflects on his pre-2012 performances as well.


In conclusion--Squirtle is the best player in the world!


i didn't get why taeJa is first in the ELO rank.. he didn't win a major event to justificate that.. ot am i loosing something?

anyway.. DRG is really solid but right now MKP is probably the best overall..
silverstyle
Profile Joined May 2011
Singapore1108 Posts
April 23 2012 09:26 GMT
#1923
will there be VODs for the stuff after the finals? Missed those and cant seem to find it
Liquid`HerO!!!
Heouf
Profile Joined March 2012
Netherlands787 Posts
April 23 2012 09:29 GMT
#1924
well close one. I rather had the other guy win. Not the zerg guy. I like terran guy more. Well, you cant have it all. I'm happy.
Gokba Alhakel
mememolly
Profile Joined December 2011
4765 Posts
April 23 2012 09:39 GMT
#1925
On April 23 2012 18:08 sereniity wrote:
Cool that DRG finally breaks the curse and beats MKP, I think it's kind of lame though that he went 9-12 in pool play and still advances, why isn't it 4 ppl that advance from pool play, rather than 6? Feels rather silly that MKP goes down from 6-1 in pool play vs some1 that went 3-4...

Congrats to DRG either way!


yeah, that is pretty fucked up
vthree
Profile Joined November 2011
Hong Kong8039 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-23 09:49:01
April 23 2012 09:43 GMT
#1926
i didn't get why taeJa is first in the ELO rank.. he didn't win a major event to justificate that.. ot am i loosing something?


Because ELO takes results from smaller tournaments like the ESV Weeklies as well which Taeja dominated. And it is not weighted. So a win in GSL has same weight as a win in the weeklies.

Cool that DRG finally breaks the curse and beats MKP, I think it's kind of lame though that he went 9-12 in pool play and still advances, why isn't it 4 ppl that advance from pool play, rather than 6? Feels rather silly that MKP goes down from 6-1 in pool play vs some1 that went 3-4...


Actually, a lot of sports are like this where the #1 team can lose to #8 team in the play-offs eventhough the #1 team had a much better record in the regular season. Since #1 and #2 got a BYE this time, I think the setup was quite good. Even in the GSL, technically you can have someone make it through both ro32 and ro16 with 2-1 (4-4 maps) so 4-2 (8-8 maps) in total play someone 4-0 (8-0 maps). And if the 8-8 person wins 3-2 over the 8-0, he still advances.
Derrida
Profile Joined March 2011
2885 Posts
April 23 2012 10:06 GMT
#1927
On April 23 2012 18:08 sereniity wrote:
Cool that DRG finally breaks the curse and beats MKP, I think it's kind of lame though that he went 9-12 in pool play and still advances, why isn't it 4 ppl that advance from pool play, rather than 6? Feels rather silly that MKP goes down from 6-1 in pool play vs some1 that went 3-4...

Congrats to DRG either way!


Ever heard of this thing called playoffs, such as in NBA, where #1 seed plays #8 or #16 seed? lol.
#1 Grubby Fan.
neoghaleon55
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7435 Posts
April 23 2012 10:43 GMT
#1928
On April 23 2012 18:43 vthree wrote:
Show nested quote +
i didn't get why taeJa is first in the ELO rank.. he didn't win a major event to justificate that.. ot am i loosing something?


Because ELO takes results from smaller tournaments like the ESV Weeklies as well which Taeja dominated. And it is not weighted. So a win in GSL has same weight as a win in the weeklies.

Show nested quote +
Cool that DRG finally breaks the curse and beats MKP, I think it's kind of lame though that he went 9-12 in pool play and still advances, why isn't it 4 ppl that advance from pool play, rather than 6? Feels rather silly that MKP goes down from 6-1 in pool play vs some1 that went 3-4...


Actually, a lot of sports are like this where the #1 team can lose to #8 team in the play-offs eventhough the #1 team had a much better record in the regular season. Since #1 and #2 got a BYE this time, I think the setup was quite good. Even in the GSL, technically you can have someone make it through both ro32 and ro16 with 2-1 (4-4 maps) so 4-2 (8-8 maps) in total play someone 4-0 (8-0 maps). And if the 8-8 person wins 3-2 over the 8-0, he still advances.


I don't understand why TLPD guys decided to include ESV weeklies all of a sudden.
If I remember correctly, they made this change the same week Taeja was announced as a Liquid player.
The decision seems somewhat biased to boost Taeja's ranking, but it's ok.
This is Team Liquid's website, they can do whatever they want.

moo...for DRG
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
April 23 2012 10:50 GMT
#1929
On April 23 2012 19:43 neoghaleon55 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2012 18:43 vthree wrote:
i didn't get why taeJa is first in the ELO rank.. he didn't win a major event to justificate that.. ot am i loosing something?


Because ELO takes results from smaller tournaments like the ESV Weeklies as well which Taeja dominated. And it is not weighted. So a win in GSL has same weight as a win in the weeklies.

Cool that DRG finally breaks the curse and beats MKP, I think it's kind of lame though that he went 9-12 in pool play and still advances, why isn't it 4 ppl that advance from pool play, rather than 6? Feels rather silly that MKP goes down from 6-1 in pool play vs some1 that went 3-4...


Actually, a lot of sports are like this where the #1 team can lose to #8 team in the play-offs eventhough the #1 team had a much better record in the regular season. Since #1 and #2 got a BYE this time, I think the setup was quite good. Even in the GSL, technically you can have someone make it through both ro32 and ro16 with 2-1 (4-4 maps) so 4-2 (8-8 maps) in total play someone 4-0 (8-0 maps). And if the 8-8 person wins 3-2 over the 8-0, he still advances.


I don't understand why TLPD guys decided to include ESV weeklies all of a sudden.
If I remember correctly, they made this change the same week Taeja was announced as a Liquid player.
The decision seems somewhat biased to boost Taeja's ranking, but it's ok.
This is Team Liquid's website, they can do whatever they want.



Nah, they've included them for a long while now, it's just that that particular ESV weekly that Taeja won just happened to push him to #1 just in time haha. Taeja's actually been #1 before from ESV weeklies (higher ELO than Mvp)
Coincidence.
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
Krossfire
Profile Joined July 2010
Australia1071 Posts
April 23 2012 10:57 GMT
#1930
On April 23 2012 19:06 Derrida wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2012 18:08 sereniity wrote:
Cool that DRG finally breaks the curse and beats MKP, I think it's kind of lame though that he went 9-12 in pool play and still advances, why isn't it 4 ppl that advance from pool play, rather than 6? Feels rather silly that MKP goes down from 6-1 in pool play vs some1 that went 3-4...

Congrats to DRG either way!


Ever heard of this thing called playoffs, such as in NBA, where #1 seed plays #8 or #16 seed? lol.


lol exactly

its like people think just cuz he went 6-1 in group he deserves to win finals...thats the point of championship bracket or the playoffs - the final games always mean more
For the Swarm * DRG *
Regent
Profile Joined April 2010
United Kingdom52 Posts
April 23 2012 11:13 GMT
#1931
I only watched the free match but the production was just immense in my opinion. The player analysis was utterly next-level and I can't wait to watch a full-scale MLG tournament with these values.

Also, would be great to not have to choose between two major community events.
The perfect temperature is never noticed
thuracine
Profile Joined February 2012
United States582 Posts
April 23 2012 11:57 GMT
#1932
On April 23 2012 19:06 Derrida wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2012 18:08 sereniity wrote:
Cool that DRG finally breaks the curse and beats MKP, I think it's kind of lame though that he went 9-12 in pool play and still advances, why isn't it 4 ppl that advance from pool play, rather than 6? Feels rather silly that MKP goes down from 6-1 in pool play vs some1 that went 3-4...

Congrats to DRG either way!


Ever heard of this thing called playoffs, such as in NBA, where #1 seed plays #8 or #16 seed? lol.



by that logic MKP should have played DRG first in ro6. Why mlg let them choose who to play was odd and something i am not a fan of.
shadymmj
Profile Joined June 2010
1906 Posts
April 23 2012 12:11 GMT
#1933
On April 23 2012 18:43 vthree wrote:
Show nested quote +
i didn't get why taeJa is first in the ELO rank.. he didn't win a major event to justificate that.. ot am i loosing something?


Because ELO takes results from smaller tournaments like the ESV Weeklies as well which Taeja dominated. And it is not weighted. So a win in GSL has same weight as a win in the weeklies.

Show nested quote +
Cool that DRG finally breaks the curse and beats MKP, I think it's kind of lame though that he went 9-12 in pool play and still advances, why isn't it 4 ppl that advance from pool play, rather than 6? Feels rather silly that MKP goes down from 6-1 in pool play vs some1 that went 3-4...


Actually, a lot of sports are like this where the #1 team can lose to #8 team in the play-offs eventhough the #1 team had a much better record in the regular season. Since #1 and #2 got a BYE this time, I think the setup was quite good. Even in the GSL, technically you can have someone make it through both ro32 and ro16 with 2-1 (4-4 maps) so 4-2 (8-8 maps) in total play someone 4-0 (8-0 maps). And if the 8-8 person wins 3-2 over the 8-0, he still advances.


it's different in team sports, you want to see the whole team play, nor can you penalise a team by X points from the get-go - that would be ridiculous, even if it made sense. the most germane rule i can think of in real sports is the away-goals rule, which is not that similar but still gives the advantage to whomever deserved it more.

in a 1v1 game it's a lot easier to set up the extended series rule. else, there might be a conflict of interest. let's just SAY parting was MKP's best friend, and MKP was already guaranteed to advance.

why didn't he just lose to parting so that he will make the playoffs? you could say it's match fixing, but on the other hand it could just be unprofessionalism coupled with zero reward (see: idra, naniwa) that drives a player to play subpar. and you can't punish a player for playing subpar - you can't prove it was intentional.

the obvious solution is to make every game count.
There is no such thing is "e-sports". There is Brood War, and then there is crap for nerds.
ACrow
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany6583 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-23 13:40:51
April 23 2012 13:39 GMT
#1934
On April 23 2012 17:24 SkyTheUnknown wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2012 16:47 Mtuhk wrote:
Kinda funny when you think about the effort : reward DRG had to go through, compared to Thorzain who won Dreamhack. Ofc MLG Spring Arena had a lot less players and so inherently a better average chance (1/8) to win it, but even placing 2nd in DH would've paid more than 1st place in MLG and top position in DH paid more than twice that of MLG Spring Arena.

This isn't meant as a jab against MLG, just an observation and i'm pretty sure everyone lost with these tournaments overlapping: the players themselves (missing out on prize pools), the spectators (several high profile players attending "the other tournament") and tournament organizers (MLG surely lost subscribers due to DH and DH again lost viewers and ad revenue since some people were rather tuning in to MLG). I know the actual broadcasts didn't overlap too much but still, i can't help but feel some people didn't have the stamina to watch 16+ hours of SC2 on both saturday and sunday.

Maybe the organizers lost in some way, because it was more comptetitive to reach high viewing numbers on this weekend. Especially with two tournaments running at the same time and the open Diablo 3 beta. But I think most fans were happy that DH was running too, mostly the one's who can't or don't want to pay for viewing an online tournament. DH has shown better production value while not charging the viewers.

The arena was not an online tournament... It was offline, just without an audience.
Also, the production value of MLG (streaming quality, schedule, viewing comfort with the nice layouts you can choose in their player, analysis by pros, pov etc) was a LOT better than Dreamhack's. Of couse DH had nice tourney quality with the amazing crowd, so it all comes down to which you prefer I guess. I'd rather they not collide, which would be in their own interest as well, because I'm pretty sure they cannibalized viewers from each other.
Get off my lawn, young punks
jobber123rd
Profile Joined December 2011
United States501 Posts
April 23 2012 14:16 GMT
#1935
On April 23 2012 19:06 Derrida wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2012 18:08 sereniity wrote:
Cool that DRG finally breaks the curse and beats MKP, I think it's kind of lame though that he went 9-12 in pool play and still advances, why isn't it 4 ppl that advance from pool play, rather than 6? Feels rather silly that MKP goes down from 6-1 in pool play vs some1 that went 3-4...

Congrats to DRG either way!


Ever heard of this thing called playoffs, such as in NBA, where #1 seed plays #8 or #16 seed? lol.


NBA and NHL do not send 75% of their teams to the playoffs at present, though (it must be noted that they were >75% when both went to 16-team playoffs in the 80's, before the leagues expanded to their current sizes). MKP did get something for his pool performance, however (other than seeding) -- direct qualification for Spring Arena 2 and, more importantly, Anaheim Pools (instead of having to fight in the Ro6 for it) -- so I don't have a problem with the round robin being not so important in determining the result of Spring Arena 1.
"I'm always going to survive. Only reason I can't survive is if I'm dead or something." --Mike Tyson
Valikyr
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden2653 Posts
April 23 2012 14:24 GMT
#1936
Seems like I can't watch the VODs even though I bought a ticket. Fuck this...
Regent
Profile Joined April 2010
United Kingdom52 Posts
April 23 2012 14:37 GMT
#1937
On April 23 2012 22:39 ACrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2012 17:24 SkyTheUnknown wrote:
On April 23 2012 16:47 Mtuhk wrote:
Kinda funny when you think about the effort : reward DRG had to go through, compared to Thorzain who won Dreamhack. Ofc MLG Spring Arena had a lot less players and so inherently a better average chance (1/8) to win it, but even placing 2nd in DH would've paid more than 1st place in MLG and top position in DH paid more than twice that of MLG Spring Arena.

This isn't meant as a jab against MLG, just an observation and i'm pretty sure everyone lost with these tournaments overlapping: the players themselves (missing out on prize pools), the spectators (several high profile players attending "the other tournament") and tournament organizers (MLG surely lost subscribers due to DH and DH again lost viewers and ad revenue since some people were rather tuning in to MLG). I know the actual broadcasts didn't overlap too much but still, i can't help but feel some people didn't have the stamina to watch 16+ hours of SC2 on both saturday and sunday.

Maybe the organizers lost in some way, because it was more comptetitive to reach high viewing numbers on this weekend. Especially with two tournaments running at the same time and the open Diablo 3 beta. But I think most fans were happy that DH was running too, mostly the one's who can't or don't want to pay for viewing an online tournament. DH has shown better production value while not charging the viewers.

The arena was not an online tournament... It was offline, just without an audience.
Also, the production value of MLG (streaming quality, schedule, viewing comfort with the nice layouts you can choose in their player, analysis by pros, pov etc) was a LOT better than Dreamhack's. Of couse DH had nice tourney quality with the amazing crowd, so it all comes down to which you prefer I guess. I'd rather they not collide, which would be in their own interest as well, because I'm pretty sure they cannibalized viewers from each other.

This!!! - seconded.

I'd happily pay for any full-scale tournament that had this level of production and I love the innovations that MLG is making. As it stands, DH had more foreigners, was full scale, had a crowd and was free so there really was no contest.
The perfect temperature is never noticed
thuracine
Profile Joined February 2012
United States582 Posts
April 23 2012 14:43 GMT
#1938
On April 23 2012 22:39 ACrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2012 17:24 SkyTheUnknown wrote:
On April 23 2012 16:47 Mtuhk wrote:
Kinda funny when you think about the effort : reward DRG had to go through, compared to Thorzain who won Dreamhack. Ofc MLG Spring Arena had a lot less players and so inherently a better average chance (1/8) to win it, but even placing 2nd in DH would've paid more than 1st place in MLG and top position in DH paid more than twice that of MLG Spring Arena.

This isn't meant as a jab against MLG, just an observation and i'm pretty sure everyone lost with these tournaments overlapping: the players themselves (missing out on prize pools), the spectators (several high profile players attending "the other tournament") and tournament organizers (MLG surely lost subscribers due to DH and DH again lost viewers and ad revenue since some people were rather tuning in to MLG). I know the actual broadcasts didn't overlap too much but still, i can't help but feel some people didn't have the stamina to watch 16+ hours of SC2 on both saturday and sunday.

Maybe the organizers lost in some way, because it was more comptetitive to reach high viewing numbers on this weekend. Especially with two tournaments running at the same time and the open Diablo 3 beta. But I think most fans were happy that DH was running too, mostly the one's who can't or don't want to pay for viewing an online tournament. DH has shown better production value while not charging the viewers.

The arena was not an online tournament... It was offline, just without an audience.
Also, the production value of MLG (streaming quality, schedule, viewing comfort with the nice layouts you can choose in their player, analysis by pros, pov etc) was a LOT better than Dreamhack's. Of couse DH had nice tourney quality with the amazing crowd, so it all comes down to which you prefer I guess. I'd rather they not collide, which would be in their own interest as well, because I'm pretty sure they cannibalized viewers from each other.


DreamHack was far better it was done in two days with a lot more players and a bigger prize pool. MLG kind of robbed DH of some of the best players and made you pay to see it. Just think if mlg 8 was at DH how much more awesome it would have been. o ya it was free to view .
gruff
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden2276 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-23 14:47:57
April 23 2012 14:45 GMT
#1939
On April 23 2012 20:57 thuracine wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2012 19:06 Derrida wrote:
On April 23 2012 18:08 sereniity wrote:
Cool that DRG finally breaks the curse and beats MKP, I think it's kind of lame though that he went 9-12 in pool play and still advances, why isn't it 4 ppl that advance from pool play, rather than 6? Feels rather silly that MKP goes down from 6-1 in pool play vs some1 that went 3-4...

Congrats to DRG either way!


Ever heard of this thing called playoffs, such as in NBA, where #1 seed plays #8 or #16 seed? lol.



by that logic MKP should have played DRG first in ro6. Why mlg let them choose who to play was odd and something i am not a fan of.

To give incentive to do well in the group of course. This is not unheard of in real sports either, it's happened in both ice hockey and bandy (one of the bigger sports in sweden). It can also create more of a rivalry feeling between the players/teams.
gruff
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden2276 Posts
April 23 2012 14:47 GMT
#1940
On April 23 2012 23:43 thuracine wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2012 22:39 ACrow wrote:
On April 23 2012 17:24 SkyTheUnknown wrote:
On April 23 2012 16:47 Mtuhk wrote:
Kinda funny when you think about the effort : reward DRG had to go through, compared to Thorzain who won Dreamhack. Ofc MLG Spring Arena had a lot less players and so inherently a better average chance (1/8) to win it, but even placing 2nd in DH would've paid more than 1st place in MLG and top position in DH paid more than twice that of MLG Spring Arena.

This isn't meant as a jab against MLG, just an observation and i'm pretty sure everyone lost with these tournaments overlapping: the players themselves (missing out on prize pools), the spectators (several high profile players attending "the other tournament") and tournament organizers (MLG surely lost subscribers due to DH and DH again lost viewers and ad revenue since some people were rather tuning in to MLG). I know the actual broadcasts didn't overlap too much but still, i can't help but feel some people didn't have the stamina to watch 16+ hours of SC2 on both saturday and sunday.

Maybe the organizers lost in some way, because it was more comptetitive to reach high viewing numbers on this weekend. Especially with two tournaments running at the same time and the open Diablo 3 beta. But I think most fans were happy that DH was running too, mostly the one's who can't or don't want to pay for viewing an online tournament. DH has shown better production value while not charging the viewers.

The arena was not an online tournament... It was offline, just without an audience.
Also, the production value of MLG (streaming quality, schedule, viewing comfort with the nice layouts you can choose in their player, analysis by pros, pov etc) was a LOT better than Dreamhack's. Of couse DH had nice tourney quality with the amazing crowd, so it all comes down to which you prefer I guess. I'd rather they not collide, which would be in their own interest as well, because I'm pretty sure they cannibalized viewers from each other.


DreamHack was far better it was done in two days with a lot more players and a bigger prize pool. MLG kind of robbed DH of some of the best players and made you pay to see it. Just think if mlg 8 was at DH how much more awesome it would have been. o ya it was free to view .

It was hardly MLG's fault that there weren't more better players at dreamhack. There are many more than 7 Koreans and Huk who could have come if they wanted to and be one of the favorites to win.
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