EPTMLG Spring Arena [Day 3] - Page 95
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thezanursic
5504 Posts
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usethis2
2164 Posts
On April 23 2012 10:40 vthree wrote: Too be fair, MKP's vT is a lot of one base/2 base timings as well. Not saying he cannot win long drawn out macro games but that is not really his forte. His biggest advantage is his micro and it shows up more in his early game. That's very true and I kind of grew to appreciate it now that so many T players play simply so greedy. I get annoyed by hidden base or ridiculously fast 3rd/4th CCs (and getting away with them) by Slayers Terrans, for example. MKP gives them a good lesson. | ||
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bittman
Australia8759 Posts
On April 23 2012 14:23 Fubi wrote: It's definitely not the best objective way if it takes into account games from more than half a year ago. Consider how fast SC2 meta games are changing, and how volatile and inconsistent most players are, those games literally mean zip. I wonder if there's a way to more objectively develop the ELO system? Degrading games over time just means that people like Taeja who played a thousand weekly games (give or take) would far out-rank players like MVP who hardly participate in tournaments outside the big ones. There's also the level of competition that would somehow need to be factored. Like winning the GSL would probably be worth more points than winning an online event. But also some formats are far more strict than others. MLG Spring Arena had a big fat open pool where many players had a lot of losses and advanced, whereas GSL is more cut and dry. I honestly can't think of how the ELO system could be reworked properly =/ | ||
opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On April 23 2012 14:30 thezanursic wrote: I hope we see a repeat of the last 3 finals in the next Arena! Won't be able to have a repeat if MKP makes GSL finals, since GSL finals and Spring Arena 2 are on the same weekend. | ||
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Mtuhk
Finland129 Posts
On April 23 2012 14:23 Fubi wrote: It's definitely not the best objective way if it takes into account games from more than half a year ago. Consider how fast SC2 meta games are changing, and how volatile and inconsistent most players are, those games literally mean zip. That doesn't infer a problem with the rating system itself, just poorly implemented K-factor in the equation. It's a case of balancing numbers and emphasis; in and ideal situation the ELO-rating of top players will be in a slow, constant incline, with correcting inflations and deflations implemented to maintain standard deviation. | ||
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Fubi
2228 Posts
On April 23 2012 14:46 Mtuhk wrote: That doesn't infer a problem with the rating system itself, just poorly implemented K-factor in the equation. It's a case of balancing numbers and emphasis; in and ideal situation the ELO-rating of top players will be in a slow, constant incline, with correcting inflations and deflations implemented to maintain standard deviation. Of course it isn't a problem with the actual ELO-rating system itself, after all, it's used in many other games/sports, such as Chess. The problem is people trying to use it for SC2 to measure current player's strength; it doesn't work very well considering the speed at which the meta game is changing, as well as the huge volatility of the player's progressions. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
For example in 2011 when MVP was literally winning and dominating, he was the best in the world at the time, mkp still has a ways to go before he can be considered best in the world (same with drg or alive or anyone else you might think is best in the world right now :D) | ||
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neoghaleon55
United States7435 Posts
On April 23 2012 15:13 blade55555 wrote: Congratulations to DRG, am super glad to see him win this tournament over MKP. I still think it's way to soon to call a best player. People saying DRG because he won 1 GSL was rediculous then it switched to MKP because he beat DRG twice to win MLG twice in a row. Slow down on the best in the world guys, takes more then a few weeks of dominance before you can judge that. For example in 2011 when MVP was literally winning and dominating, he was the best in the world at the time, mkp still has a ways to go before he can be considered best in the world (same with drg or alive or anyone else you might think is best in the world right now :D) You can't deny DRG the title of "best ZERG in the world though" | ||
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shadymmj
1906 Posts
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neoghaleon55
United States7435 Posts
On April 23 2012 15:33 shadymmj wrote: how does someone who goes 3-4 in the initial stages end up winning over someone who went 6-1 with an even head-to-head record? at one point in time MKP was already 5-3 head to head, that's 2 up, should be game over... Maybe you should sponsor a tournament that uses those "correct" rules. I prefer today's rule regardless of outcome. Best of 7 finals is the best way to go. I feel so cheated when "extended series" ruin the finale of a tournament. (especially since I'm a paying customer!) | ||
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Femari
United States2900 Posts
On April 23 2012 15:13 blade55555 wrote: Congratulations to DRG, am super glad to see him win this tournament over MKP. I still think it's way to soon to call a best player. People saying DRG because he won 1 GSL was rediculous then it switched to MKP because he beat DRG twice to win MLG twice in a row. Slow down on the best in the world guys, takes more then a few weeks of dominance before you can judge that. For example in 2011 when MVP was literally winning and dominating, he was the best in the world at the time, mkp still has a ways to go before he can be considered best in the world (same with drg or alive or anyone else you might think is best in the world right now :D) Nearly 2 months = a few weeks now? MKP was the clear best in the world for a while there. You cannot point to another player in that point of time and say he was better than MKP. MKP was rolling through everyone. He was clearly playing the best in the world, which by definition made him the best player in the world at that time. Just how DRG was rolling through everyone prior to that. When a team goes on a winning streak and they're beating all these top teams, but other teams have titles, does that mean they're playing better than the team on a winning streak? Hell no. That team is currently the best team. They're beating everyone. They're doing it for more than a month. The best player in the world is simply this, the player who is playing the best in the world over a minimum period of a month or so. (excluding one event players, like aLive pre-IPL4) Does that mean they're the most skilled? Nope. It can like it did with Mvp. But it can also mean the player is on fire. | ||
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shadymmj
1906 Posts
it's not correct to say that bo3 is too short for a finals. i think bo5 is ideal, but i could do with bo3. one format that leaves no room for argument is the OSL format. similar to GSL. you lose, goodbye. the other one that gives some opportunity for a S.O.L. player to come back is the extended series one, but that should reward the guy who performed the best consistently some kind of advantage. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On April 23 2012 15:24 neoghaleon55 wrote: You can't deny DRG the title of "best ZERG in the world though" Oh I can agree with that, best zerg in the world yes no comparison :p. | ||
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neoghaleon55
United States7435 Posts
On April 23 2012 16:04 blade55555 wrote: Oh I can agree with that, best zerg in the world yes no comparison :p. ok let's be friends May I buy you a beer? XD | ||
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usethis2
2164 Posts
- GSL - MLG - Dreamhack - IEM DRG now won every one of them once. First grand-slammer? | ||
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Veclada
742 Posts
On April 23 2012 16:17 usethis2 wrote: Are the 4 biggest SC2 tournaments like these? - GSL - MLG - Dreamhack - IEM DRG now won every one of them once. First grand-slammer? Remove IEM add IPL | ||
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On April 23 2012 16:17 usethis2 wrote: Are the 4 biggest SC2 tournaments like these? - GSL - MLG - Dreamhack - IEM DRG now won every one of them once. First grand-slammer? This tournament that DRG just won is hardly a premier, and neither were his dreamhack and IEM wins. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On April 23 2012 16:21 ticklishmusic wrote: Well, instead of ELO, the only reasonable ranking system I can think of is the kind they use in Tennis-- placing in tournaments is worth a certain amount of points, and you go up and down relative to your past performances. But SC2 players are much less consistent than tennis players. In tennis, points stick around for an entire year before being completely wiped. I doubt that'll work for SC2. | ||
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LoveBuzz
Canada28 Posts
Ya, this tournaments format was lame from a competitive standpoint. Normally you can't have every player play everyone else, so you have to have a structure where they widdle it down until only two remain.... but in this MLG everyone literally played everyone else within the first 2 days and it was clear MKP was the best player. The third day was just like a separate tournament where DRG proved to be slightly better than MKP. MKP didn't win, but he left with the most victories....It felt a lot more important than it was. The grand finals was only a difference of $2000 in winnings.... it doesn't make a dent in the SC2earnings.com Thorzain and Polt both made out better, winning 11k and 6k respectively. And MKP was just slightly better on the first 2 days than Ganzi and Violet (14-7 vs 13-8 + 12-9). The whole point of tournament brackets is you have to win when it counts, and if you can't, then you don't win. DRG = more clutch than MKP. Deal with it. EDIT - and if you want a tournament precident for this, see why NFL, NBA, MLB, and NHL all have end-of-season championship tournaments. But I guess the four biggest sports leagues in North American are lame from a competitive standpoint. | ||
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