On April 23 2012 10:15 Chunhyang wrote: Gratz DRG!
Although somehow, it's hard to think of them as having a rivalry just yet, unlike DRG MMA. Something has to happen. There needs to be some controversy.
Zerg continous to be awesome, GSL my chin.
Why, the best rivalry is one based off skill, than drama imo.
This is their third time meeting in the finals of an MLG, showing that they are consistently at the top. Wouldn't be surprised if they met against at Arena #2.
They're also very very even in terms of winrate, something like 17-19 or like that. They've also played a lot more games against each other than MMA-DRG have, amusingly. Although DRG-MMA have the GSTL and BlizzCup finals as big moments.
On April 23 2012 10:15 Chunhyang wrote: Gratz DRG!
Although somehow, it's hard to think of them as having a rivalry just yet, unlike DRG MMA. Something has to happen. There needs to be some controversy.
Zerg continous to be awesome, GSL my chin.
Why, the best rivalry is one based off skill, than drama imo.
This is their third time meeting in the finals of an MLG, showing that they are consistently at the top. Wouldn't be surprised if they met against at Arena #2.
They're also very very even in terms of winrate, something like 17-19 or like that. They've also played a lot more games against each other than MMA-DRG have, amusingly. Although DRG-MMA have the GSTL and BlizzCup finals as big moments.
Yeah Blizz Cup G7 was one of the most tense, and best TvZ's to date. The previous 6 were meh and one sided. The 3-0, to 3-3, really made G7 epic.
I'd like to state for the record that "The best in the world" or just the suffix after the sentence "In the world", has to be the most trivialized statement in the SC2 world since the game came out. Despite any fan, caster, player, or a general consensus between them, the entire "In the world" thing is just fucking stupid at this point.
If that isn't exactly clear then I'll elaborate. It seems every week (although slowing ever so slightly as of late), there's a new either ;
A. Best player in the world
or
B. Best (X) player in the world . In this case X would be things like Micro, macro, decision making, creep spread, or even trivial shit that's been spouted out as somehow being the best on the entire planet.
I know how this could seem like a severe over reaction, but when being the "Best in the world" or "Best (X) in the world" is constantly changing, then that sacred title doesn't mean shit. Wings of Liberty isn't even at a close yet, the game is ever changing with new players coming, and BW professionals that have PROFESSIONALLY controlled either similar units or the same units and have managed economies in a different yet still similar environment switch over, and when this is all settled in a bit, then maybe best in the world will actually mean something.
We have a long way to go, and yeah comparing players is fun but they flip-flop so friggin' often that having no foundation to base those claims off is just cheating the real title. Yeah it's an objective reality that no matter what by law there's always a best player, but seeing it demonstrated and analyzed as such hasn't happened yet, and won't happen yet for a while.
To anyone that is making claims at the best whatever, don't take this as a personal assault. I'm just trying to say that we are all witness to something big and very real in the future. This is just the beginning, don't make it sound like it's the end of the road with these short-sighted claims.
On April 23 2012 10:15 Chunhyang wrote: Gratz DRG!
Although somehow, it's hard to think of them as having a rivalry just yet, unlike DRG MMA. Something has to happen. There needs to be some controversy.
Zerg continous to be awesome, GSL my chin.
Why, the best rivalry is one based off skill, than drama imo.
This is their third time meeting in the finals of an MLG, showing that they are consistently at the top. Wouldn't be surprised if they met against at Arena #2.
Just like sometimes love just ain't enough neither is skill.
Maybe if they had met in the GSTL finals or something. There needs to be SOME bad blood. That's my opinion.
What's with the semifinal vods being corrupt huh. That's terrible.
He proxy-marauder-rushed MKP out of the IPL 4. Mech style just works much better indeed.
Too be fair, MKP's vT is a lot of one base/2 base timings as well. Not saying he cannot win long drawn out macro games but that is not really his forte. His biggest advantage is his micro and it shows up more in his early game.
He proxy-marauder-rushed MKP out of the IPL 4. Mech style just works much better indeed.
Too be fair, MKP's vT is a lot of one base/2 base timings as well. Not saying he cannot win long drawn out macro games but that is not really his forte. His biggest advantage is his micro and it shows up more in his early game.
Yes, but nobody pretended that MKP beat Heart and Ganzi with his fabulous long drawn out mech plays either. If you want to defend a player's strength, at least do it with the games he showed, not the games you could see him play in theory.
Here it would be: "aLive showed his great proxy maraudering capabilities at IPL 4 when he took down MKP in an impressive fashion", Of course I'm joking and aLive is a great macro player and all, but MKP was not defeated by his fabulous mech play at least. MVP definitely was, but that's another story.
To anyone that is making claims at the best whatever, don't take this as a personal assault. I'm just trying to say that we are all witness to something big and very real in the future. This is just the beginning, don't make it sound like it's the end of the road with these short-sighted claims.
Rofl, so we can't have a best in the world because BW players haven't switched over yet? That is like saying Boxer, Nada, Saviour etc shouldn't be called the best player because Flash hadn't arrived to the scene yet. There will be different best players during different time periods. Of course, it is nothing official but more of a power ranking of sorts.
On April 23 2012 09:12 Emix_Squall wrote: Hey, I'm just curious about thing. I wasn't able to watch the games or the stream but when I look at the Liquipedia page of this MLG Arena, I see Parting and DRG were perfectly tied at the end of the pool play. Now considering Parting won the set where he was opposed to DRG, how did DRG got to be the one advancing?
The overall Map Score being displayed there is a bit of a red herring; in a tie, head-to-head match score is considered first (Heart/Parting/DRG all 1-1 vs. each other) and then head-to-head map score (Heart > DRG > Parting). Overall Map score is considered only if H2H map scores are tied.
I'm not a native english speaker and really didn't get that :S Thx for the answer but if anyone could clarify it would be great ^^
I will quote a post from a closed thread from SC2 General that explains it well (thanks to user Tntnnbltn):
"Round Robin Ranking (1st-8th) will be determined using each Player’s Record of Matches won and lost." Heart, DRG and Parting all had 3-4 in overall matches, so were tied.
"Ties will be broken using the following Tiebreakers in this order: (1) Head to Head Match Winning Percentage (Matches Won vs. Tied Players / Matches Played vs. Tied Players)" DRG has a head-to-head match percentage of 50% (won vs Heart, lost vs Parting) Parting has a head-to-head match percentage of 50% (won vs DRG, lost vs Heart) Heart has a head-to-head match percentage of 50% (won vs Parting, lost vs DRG) Players are still tied.
"(2) Head to Head Games Winning Percentage (Games Won vs. Tied Players / Games Played vs. Tied Players)" DRG won 3/6 games (1 vs Parting, 2 vs Heart) Parting won 2/6 games (2 vs DRG, 0 vs Heart) Heart won 4/6 games (1 vs DRG, 3 vs Parting) Heart > DRG > Parting
This resolved the tiebreaker, so no further steps were needed. The NEXT step would have been to look at overall game score (Heart 10-11, DRG 9-12, Parting 9-12) but this was not necessary as the tie was already resolved.
To anyone that is making claims at the best whatever, don't take this as a personal assault. I'm just trying to say that we are all witness to something big and very real in the future. This is just the beginning, don't make it sound like it's the end of the road with these short-sighted claims.
Rofl, so we can't have a best in the world because BW players haven't switched over yet? That is like saying Boxer, Nada, Saviour etc shouldn't be called the best player because Flash hadn't arrived to the scene yet. There will be different best players during different time periods. Of course, it is nothing official but more of a power ranking of sorts.
Just because those paragraphs were next to each other doesn't mean that I implied that at all. By something very real in the future I was saying that there's going to be more widescale tournaments with a more refined player pool that's already developing seperating the rookies and flashes and the pan with the veterans. The MKPs, DRGs, Alives, what have you. That "Very real in the future" part was talking about the entire post I wrote, not just Brood War players, although that's certainly a possibility as well. Way to jump the gun there buddy
And yeah, as I said. By the law of nature there's always going to be a best player in the world. But it doesn't mean shit yet compared to what it's going to mean soon. It's just trivial was the entire point of that.
Of course I'm joking and aLive is a great macro player and all, but MKP was not defeated by his fabulous mech play at least. MVP definitely was, but that's another story.
aLive hasn't played MVP recently. He lost pretty convincingly the last time they met (GSL Nov?)
Really? I think most people reading your post would have thought that is what you meant. Of course, SC2 is a young game. But it doesn't mean we can have a 'best' player for a given time frame.
Of course I'm joking and aLive is a great macro player and all, but MKP was not defeated by his fabulous mech play at least. MVP definitely was, but that's another story.
aLive hasn't played MVP recently. He lost pretty convincingly the last time they met (GSL Nov?)
On April 23 2012 10:39 solidONE wrote: I'd like to state for the record that "The best in the world" or just the suffix after the sentence "In the world", has to be the most trivialized statement in the SC2 world since the game came out. Despite any fan, caster, player, or a general consensus between them, the entire "In the world" thing is just fucking stupid at this point.
If that isn't exactly clear then I'll elaborate. It seems every week (although slowing ever so slightly as of late), there's a new either ;
A. Best player in the world
or
B. Best (X) player in the world . In this case X would be things like Micro, macro, decision making, creep spread, or even trivial shit that's been spouted out as somehow being the best on the entire planet.
I know how this could seem like a severe over reaction, but when being the "Best in the world" or "Best (X) in the world" is constantly changing, then that sacred title doesn't mean shit. Wings of Liberty isn't even at a close yet, the game is ever changing with new players coming, and BW professionals that have PROFESSIONALLY controlled either similar units or the same units and have managed economies in a different yet still similar environment switch over, and when this is all settled in a bit, then maybe best in the world will actually mean something.
We have a long way to go, and yeah comparing players is fun but they flip-flop so friggin' often that having no foundation to base those claims off is just cheating the real title. Yeah it's an objective reality that no matter what by law there's always a best player, but seeing it demonstrated and analyzed as such hasn't happened yet, and won't happen yet for a while.
To anyone that is making claims at the best whatever, don't take this as a personal assault. I'm just trying to say that we are all witness to something big and very real in the future. This is just the beginning, don't make it sound like it's the end of the road with these short-sighted claims.
well while I was biased in this thread I could put up a 100% not biased neutral Top 3 of each race by achievements in 2012.
Top Terrans
1. MKP (still dont like him much, very feminine and unmanly lol) 2. aLive & MMA (Iron Squid gonna be hot shit) 4. Polt & Jjakji
although I would like to see MVP winning titles again, it probably wont happen soon
If you are going by 2012 alone, there is NO way you can put MMA as #2. Only results he has so far is making the semis of Iron Squid, ro8 GSL. Of course, I feel he is still one of the top terrans but not in his 2012 results.
If you are going by 2012 alone, there is NO way you can put MMA as #2. Only results he has so far is making the semis of Iron Squid, ro8 GSL. Of course, I feel he is still one of the top terrans but not in his 2012 results.
he won kiev (against mediocre competition) and 3rd in world champs and 4th in ipl4, not bad.
On April 23 2012 10:39 solidONE wrote: I'd like to state for the record that "The best in the world" or just the suffix after the sentence "In the world", has to be the most trivialized statement in the SC2 world since the game came out. Despite any fan, caster, player, or a general consensus between them, the entire "In the world" thing is just fucking stupid at this point.
If that isn't exactly clear then I'll elaborate. It seems every week (although slowing ever so slightly as of late), there's a new either ;
A. Best player in the world
or
B. Best (X) player in the world . In this case X would be things like Micro, macro, decision making, creep spread, or even trivial shit that's been spouted out as somehow being the best on the entire planet.
I know how this could seem like a severe over reaction, but when being the "Best in the world" or "Best (X) in the world" is constantly changing, then that sacred title doesn't mean shit. Wings of Liberty isn't even at a close yet, the game is ever changing with new players coming, and BW professionals that have PROFESSIONALLY controlled either similar units or the same units and have managed economies in a different yet still similar environment switch over, and when this is all settled in a bit, then maybe best in the world will actually mean something.
We have a long way to go, and yeah comparing players is fun but they flip-flop so friggin' often that having no foundation to base those claims off is just cheating the real title. Yeah it's an objective reality that no matter what by law there's always a best player, but seeing it demonstrated and analyzed as such hasn't happened yet, and won't happen yet for a while.
To anyone that is making claims at the best whatever, don't take this as a personal assault. I'm just trying to say that we are all witness to something big and very real in the future. This is just the beginning, don't make it sound like it's the end of the road with these short-sighted claims.
well while I was biased in this thread I could put up a 100% not biased neutral Top 3 of each race by achievements in 2012.
Top Terrans
1. MKP (still dont like him much, very feminine and unmanly lol) 2. aLive & MMA (Iron Squid gonna be hot shit) 4. Polt & Jjakji
although I would like to see MVP winning titles again, it probably wont happen soon
And the Best player in the world changes every week, once a top player won a big tournament - thus he doesnt exist.
I nearly agree with your rankings. I think those three Protoss players are all sorta tied at the moment. I don't think one of them is clearly standing above the others like DRG and MKP are for T and Z right now.
And I don't think it changes every week, but every few tournaments. I didn't think MKP was the best player in the world until he won his second MLG title. Now I do not think he is the best player in the world because he did not win IPL or Spring Arena 1. I think that while the best player in the world does change often (as it should in a game that's developing), it's not every week.
Well it's not as long as you don't listen to the people that jump to the conclusions and go "MKP BONJWA" "THORZAIN BONJWA" "SQUIRTLE BONJWA" etc etc. One event does not make a player, multiple ones do.
I think any reason why the 'best' player is changing so often is that before, we basically looked at GSL results where the same group of players were playing each other. At this time last year, there were already 3 GSLs done. We are still in Season 2 this year. Also, we have seen an increase in Koreans going to foreign events. However, different koreans went to different events (although mlg/ipl4 did have a lot of the same code S players). So it is slightly more difficult to compare results.
On April 23 2012 10:39 solidONE wrote: I'd like to state for the record that "The best in the world" or just the suffix after the sentence "In the world", has to be the most trivialized statement in the SC2 world since the game came out. Despite any fan, caster, player, or a general consensus between them, the entire "In the world" thing is just fucking stupid at this point.
If that isn't exactly clear then I'll elaborate. It seems every week (although slowing ever so slightly as of late), there's a new either ;
A. Best player in the world
or
B. Best (X) player in the world . In this case X would be things like Micro, macro, decision making, creep spread, or even trivial shit that's been spouted out as somehow being the best on the entire planet.
I know how this could seem like a severe over reaction, but when being the "Best in the world" or "Best (X) in the world" is constantly changing, then that sacred title doesn't mean shit. Wings of Liberty isn't even at a close yet, the game is ever changing with new players coming, and BW professionals that have PROFESSIONALLY controlled either similar units or the same units and have managed economies in a different yet still similar environment switch over, and when this is all settled in a bit, then maybe best in the world will actually mean something.
We have a long way to go, and yeah comparing players is fun but they flip-flop so friggin' often that having no foundation to base those claims off is just cheating the real title. Yeah it's an objective reality that no matter what by law there's always a best player, but seeing it demonstrated and analyzed as such hasn't happened yet, and won't happen yet for a while.
To anyone that is making claims at the best whatever, don't take this as a personal assault. I'm just trying to say that we are all witness to something big and very real in the future. This is just the beginning, don't make it sound like it's the end of the road with these short-sighted claims.
I agree with the basic sentiment of your post. Recently the "best in the world" titles have been rampant...I don't think half of them are worth noting to be totally honest. However, the best players for their respective races are always worth noting and right now I think we have a pretty good idea of the Terran and Zerg hierarchy at the very least.
MKP is playing the best out of all the Terrans right now hands down. DRG, despite his Code S showing this season, is the best Zerg. These two players keep making it to finals at tournaments and beating lesser players to a pulp. Protoss is up in the air still only because there are so many good players at this point that don't have much to separate them. I think Parting might be the one with the most staying power since his PvT is undeniably amazing.
If someone has a poor day, that shouldn't all of the sudden discount them as the best of their race. No one cares about "one of the best in the world" and I think that should be cut out. I love Tastosis to death but they have a way of making every player sound like something special. The fact is, Code S RO16 obviously has great players in it. It goes without saying that they are some of the very best globally. I don't mind pointing out their strengths but it needs to be limited to analysis. In short, no one deserves to be called "the best in the world" without winning or being a runner up consistently. There are only a handful of people that can claim that...not every player in the Korean scene.
IMO these are the only players that should even be mentioned with that phrase:
MKP DRG MMA MC Nestea MVP
*Without recent wins, I'd even argue that the old trifecta of MVP, Nestea, and MC is losing steam*
Even players like Leenock, Jjakji, Alive, or Parting don't deserve this acclaim yet. These players are great but overall inconsistent...Jjakji won a GSL but he isn't always in the top 8. People can still enjoy their favorite players without them needing some pseudo-honorific. Until the tides completely turn and someone definitively claims the throne, this "best in the world" thing needs to cool off.
EPT
