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On March 10 2012 09:29 Seraphone wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 09:26 Benjamin80 wrote:On March 10 2012 09:23 Seraphone wrote:On March 10 2012 09:11 dragonborn wrote:On March 10 2012 08:55 Seraphone wrote:On March 10 2012 04:44 Kznn wrote:On March 10 2012 04:39 Sea_aeS wrote:
I really its time for Puma to be considered as a real top Korean !!! he's not considered top top korean cause of hes "week" tvz Is there a Korean Terran who's not weak in at least one matchup? MKP - TvT MMA - TvP MVP - TvP Puma - TvZ Ryung - TvP Ganzi - TvP Bomber - TvZ Polt - TvZ Not to mention they can all beat each in TvT on the right day anyway. Polt's TvZ is his weak matchup? wow... On March 10 2012 09:18 Benjamin80 wrote:On March 10 2012 09:11 dragonborn wrote:On March 10 2012 08:55 Seraphone wrote:On March 10 2012 04:44 Kznn wrote:On March 10 2012 04:39 Sea_aeS wrote:
I really its time for Puma to be considered as a real top Korean !!! he's not considered top top korean cause of hes "week" tvz Is there a Korean Terran who's not weak in at least one matchup? MKP - TvT MMA - TvP MVP - TvP Puma - TvZ Ryung - TvP Ganzi - TvP Bomber - TvZ Polt - TvZ Not to mention they can all beat each in TvT on the right day anyway. Polt's TvZ is his weak matchup? wow... Yea I got no idea what he is talking about Polt weakest matchup is by fare his TvT his TvZ and TvP are very good Two people who don't have a GSL ticket. Polt is pretty bad TvZ, beating foreigners doesn't change that. Polt's basically never been a top end ZvTer in Korea. Where as he's known as a great TvPer obviously and have plenty of solid wins in TvT. God its you again. Look at his stats You do know how to read numbers right? Oh look it's the TLPD is everything I am unable to engage my common sense brigade.  PoltSo then, please do educate how exactly games played over a year ago on quality maps such as Scrap Station, Blistering Sands, Delta Quadrant, Xelnaga Caverns and Lost Temple versus world reknown Zergs like TheWind, Cezanne, Check and Moon are in anyway relevant to the current standard of Polt's ZvT?
Well that goes for all players but stats are bloddy stats. And read my other post in a 3months period he beat Losira,Nestea Zenio and Stephano anyway I dont really feel like getting in a fight with the TL pessimist so good night good sir
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Polt is hardly even a top korean , he is very beatable in any matchup and doesnt need a specific weakness tbh.
TvP is not a weak matchup for any player because basically all of them are worse at it because its just harder.
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On March 10 2012 09:23 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:55 Seraphone wrote:On March 10 2012 04:44 Kznn wrote:On March 10 2012 04:39 Sea_aeS wrote:
I really its time for Puma to be considered as a real top Korean !!! he's not considered top top korean cause of hes "week" tvz Is there a Korean Terran who's not weak in at least one matchup? MKP - TvT MMA - TvP MVP - TvP Puma - TvZ Ryung - TvP Ganzi - TvP Bomber - TvZ Polt - TvZ Not to mention they can all beat each in TvT on the right day anyway. MKP is not weak in TvT anymore. MMA is not weak in TvP anymore. Mvp was never weak in TvP. Polt is not weak in TvZ anymore. Beating Oz twice in his worst MU by far and a bunch of (very mid-tier) foreigners isn't really a reliable way to say that his TvP isn't awful anymore lol.
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On March 10 2012 09:33 Benjamin80 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 09:29 Seraphone wrote:On March 10 2012 09:26 Benjamin80 wrote:On March 10 2012 09:23 Seraphone wrote:On March 10 2012 09:11 dragonborn wrote:On March 10 2012 08:55 Seraphone wrote:On March 10 2012 04:44 Kznn wrote:On March 10 2012 04:39 Sea_aeS wrote:
I really its time for Puma to be considered as a real top Korean !!! he's not considered top top korean cause of hes "week" tvz Is there a Korean Terran who's not weak in at least one matchup? MKP - TvT MMA - TvP MVP - TvP Puma - TvZ Ryung - TvP Ganzi - TvP Bomber - TvZ Polt - TvZ Not to mention they can all beat each in TvT on the right day anyway. Polt's TvZ is his weak matchup? wow... On March 10 2012 09:18 Benjamin80 wrote:On March 10 2012 09:11 dragonborn wrote:On March 10 2012 08:55 Seraphone wrote:On March 10 2012 04:44 Kznn wrote:On March 10 2012 04:39 Sea_aeS wrote:
I really its time for Puma to be considered as a real top Korean !!! he's not considered top top korean cause of hes "week" tvz Is there a Korean Terran who's not weak in at least one matchup? MKP - TvT MMA - TvP MVP - TvP Puma - TvZ Ryung - TvP Ganzi - TvP Bomber - TvZ Polt - TvZ Not to mention they can all beat each in TvT on the right day anyway. Polt's TvZ is his weak matchup? wow... Yea I got no idea what he is talking about Polt weakest matchup is by fare his TvT his TvZ and TvP are very good Two people who don't have a GSL ticket. Polt is pretty bad TvZ, beating foreigners doesn't change that. Polt's basically never been a top end ZvTer in Korea. Where as he's known as a great TvPer obviously and have plenty of solid wins in TvT. God its you again. Look at his stats You do know how to read numbers right? Oh look it's the TLPD is everything I am unable to engage my common sense brigade. PoltSo then, please do educate how exactly games played over a year ago on quality maps such as Scrap Station, Blistering Sands, Delta Quadrant, Xelnaga Caverns and Lost Temple versus world reknown Zergs like TheWind, Cezanne, Check and Moon are in anyway relevant to the current standard of Polt's ZvT? Well that goes for all players but stats are bloddy stats. And read my other post in a 3months period he beat Losira,Nestea Zenio and Stephano anyway I dont really feel like getting in a fight with the TL pessimist so good night good sir
For foreigners they play so many games that the worthwhile data exceeds the worthless and even if you ignore the percentages you can still see 2+ pages of games played in the last few months to make a decent judgement.
Polt's played 7 TvZ's in the last 6 months and lost 4 of them. 3 of those losses were to one guy. You can't use 7 games as meaning anything at all.
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On March 10 2012 09:33 secretary bird wrote:
Polt is hardly even a top korean , he is very beatable in any matchup and doesnt need a specific weakness tbh.
TvP is not a weak matchup for any player because basically all of them are worse at it because its just harder.
Rofl, get your facts straight kid. Latest tournament results dont mean anything clearly?
User was warned for this post
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On March 10 2012 09:39 FinestHour wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 09:33 secretary bird wrote:
Polt is hardly even a top korean , he is very beatable in any matchup and doesnt need a specific weakness tbh.
TvP is not a weak matchup for any player because basically all of them are worse at it because its just harder.
Rofl, get your facts straight kid.
So Polt is as good as players like Alive or Gumiho?
Or do you mean TvP ? Every single terran is bad at it according to TL except Puma and Polt maybe but
they cant win anything in Korea these days.
Didnt say it was impossible to win or too hard but I'm tired of hearing about it for 95% of terran players.
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On March 10 2012 09:33 secretary bird wrote:
Polt is hardly even a top korean , he is very beatable in any matchup and doesnt need a specific weakness tbh.
TvP is not a weak matchup for any player because basically all of them are worse at it because its just harder.
puma's best matchup is TvP. And its world class for sure.
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On March 10 2012 09:50 89andy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 09:33 secretary bird wrote:
Polt is hardly even a top korean , he is very beatable in any matchup and doesnt need a specific weakness tbh.
TvP is not a weak matchup for any player because basically all of them are worse at it because its just harder.
puma's best matchup is TvP. And its world class for sure.
That might be true I didnt mean there are no exceptions but it should be considered a strength for him not a weakness for most players imo.
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On March 10 2012 04:27 iNcontroL wrote:
GO PUMA!
THIS!
Here is a video of iNcontroL and Machine/Idra cheering on PuMa, with Alex at the end!
+ Show Spoiler +
GET HIM PUMA! You've done it before, you can do it again! Remember that ITS PRETTY GOOD!111!
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On March 10 2012 09:49 secretary bird wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 09:39 FinestHour wrote:On March 10 2012 09:33 secretary bird wrote:
Polt is hardly even a top korean , he is very beatable in any matchup and doesnt need a specific weakness tbh.
TvP is not a weak matchup for any player because basically all of them are worse at it because its just harder.
Rofl, get your facts straight kid. So Polt is as good as players like Alive or Gumiho? Or do you mean TvP ? Every single terran is bad at it according to TL except Puma and Polt maybe but they cant win anything in Korea these days. Didnt say it was impossible to win or too hard but I'm tired of hearing about it for 95% of terran players.
Alive is overrated. I would put Polt above Alive. As far as TvP. By far the best TvP'er in the world is MKP. No one even comes close to him in terms of TvP.
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I agree with Wegandi, MKP is by far the best tvp-player right now, in fact he is one of few terrans who actually have a decent time vP right now.
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United States15275 Posts
On March 10 2012 09:26 Seraphone wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 09:23 CosmicSpiral wrote:On March 10 2012 08:55 Seraphone wrote:On March 10 2012 04:44 Kznn wrote:On March 10 2012 04:39 Sea_aeS wrote:
I really its time for Puma to be considered as a real top Korean !!! he's not considered top top korean cause of hes "week" tvz Is there a Korean Terran who's not weak in at least one matchup? MKP - TvT MMA - TvP MVP - TvP Puma - TvZ Ryung - TvP Ganzi - TvP Bomber - TvZ Polt - TvZ Not to mention they can all beat each in TvT on the right day anyway. MKP is not weak in TvT anymore. MMA is not weak in TvP anymore. Mvp was never weak in TvP. Polt is not weak in TvZ anymore. Evidence for MMA not being weak TvP? MKP won two best of 3s in the Group Stages and suddenly he's got great TvT again? Polt's almost never beaten a good ZvT player in Korean. I don't care if he beat Stephano, Stephano's ZvT is nothing special. MVP's TvP landed him in Code A once upon a time, clearly his TvP is not the best and if you watch him play I think the only good, super solid TvP series I've seen from him was vs Huk and even then he 1-1-1'd him twice.
Beating Oz twice in the Ro16 and losing in a close series to Puzzle, plus generally winning most of his TvP series since the end of GSL November. And his games in Korea have generally been against top level PvT players with the exception of Vines, who has come out of his shell recently. It is not nearly as good as Polt/Puma/MarineKing but it is definitely above-average at this point.
In the past MKP's TvT was suspect because of poor decision-making, nothing to do with mechanics or army movement or any other feature. He would panic and attack into well-positioned armies when he didn't need to engage. This didn't even affect his record in series besides Bo1s in the group stages and team leagues. He doesn't do that anymore and has predictably become a beast in team leagues.
Almost never beaten a good ZvT player? Seems like you forgot his streak from January to May when he went almost undefeated, or the fact that his vZ matches have been so erratic and lopsided that they are worthless as a measure of anything. It's best to watch the games themselves to see how he plays.
Citing one bad series against Alicia means...what exactly? MvP has always maintained a 60%+ winrate in the matchup, and it was his weakest for a long time since it was the only matchup that made him look remotely mortal; players like Virus and asd would kill to attain that level of skill. Citing his mindgame series against HuK as "solid" shows you don't watch his games; his series against MC at Providence were much better even when he lost the first set.
On March 10 2012 09:33 Seraphone wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 09:30 Benjamin80 wrote:On March 10 2012 09:26 Seraphone wrote:On March 10 2012 09:23 CosmicSpiral wrote:On March 10 2012 08:55 Seraphone wrote:On March 10 2012 04:44 Kznn wrote:On March 10 2012 04:39 Sea_aeS wrote:
I really its time for Puma to be considered as a real top Korean !!! he's not considered top top korean cause of hes "week" tvz Is there a Korean Terran who's not weak in at least one matchup? MKP - TvT MMA - TvP MVP - TvP Puma - TvZ Ryung - TvP Ganzi - TvP Bomber - TvZ Polt - TvZ Not to mention they can all beat each in TvT on the right day anyway. MKP is not weak in TvT anymore. MMA is not weak in TvP anymore. Mvp was never weak in TvP. Polt is not weak in TvZ anymore. Evidence for MMA not being weak TvP? MKP won two best of 3s in the Group Stages and suddenly he's got great TvT again? Polt's almost never beaten a good ZvT player in Korean. I don't care if he beat Stephano, Stephano's ZvT is nothing special. MVP's TvP landed him in Code A once upon a time, clearly his TvP is not the best and if you watch him play I think the only good, super solid TvP series I've seen from him was vs Huk and even then he 1-1-1'd him twice. You just talking out you ass as allways. Polt recent wins over a 3month period include Losira Zenio, Nestea and Stephano so yea he is bad in TvZ His stats and matchups are public you know not hard to go read them Losira and Zenio are notoriously bad ZvT. Losira is so bad at ZvT he's dropped entirely off the radar because of it. Stephano is bad ZvT at Code S level. Nestea was a best of one. Anyone can win a best of one. It's not evidence of anything.
*facepalm*
Losira never had bad ZvT. He was infamous for collapsing against early game pressure, and he doesn't have that problem anymore. In fact the real reason he has declined in prominence is due to his outdated ZvP strategies.
Stephano has never been tested against Code S Terrans besides those with great TvZ. His sample size is minuscule.
On March 10 2012 09:33 secretary bird wrote:
Polt is hardly even a top korean , he is very beatable in any matchup and doesnt need a specific weakness tbh.
TvP is not a weak matchup for any player because basically all of them are worse at it because its just harder.
You don't know shit if you say a professional player can be beaten by any strategy. Every player has undeniable strengths and weaknesses and if you play to their strengths you put yourself in a hole. If you play TvT against Polt and go marine-tank, expect to lose; if you play passive ling-infestor against Polt, expect to lose; if you try to base race him and don't have a significant tech advantage, expect to lose. The only real weaknesses Polt has is an aversion to playing mech TvT, a sparse collection of builds and zerg counterattacks.
Ganzi, Ryung, and ForGG suck bad in TvP and it has zero to do with the metagame shifts. Ganzi's unit control is poor for a terran, Ryung alternates between too cheesy and too passive to have a stable midgame, and ForGG lacks both positioning awareness and proper engagements. The players who were good in TvP before the shift (MarineKing, Puma, Polt, etc.) are still the best TvPs during it because their play isn't changed by things like the 1-1-1 losing favor.
On March 10 2012 09:49 secretary bird wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 09:39 FinestHour wrote:On March 10 2012 09:33 secretary bird wrote:
Polt is hardly even a top korean , he is very beatable in any matchup and doesnt need a specific weakness tbh.
TvP is not a weak matchup for any player because basically all of them are worse at it because its just harder.
Rofl, get your facts straight kid. So Polt is as good as players like Alive or Gumiho? Or do you mean TvP ? Every single terran is bad at it according to TL except Puma and Polt maybe but they cant win anything in Korea these days. Didnt say it was impossible to win or too hard but I'm tired of hearing about it for 95% of terran players.
Alive and Polt have almost always split series whenever they meet, same thing for MarineKing. You can depend on MKP and Alive to use more builds in all the matchups and that's their main advantage.
Puma doesn't win because he falls to low-level zergs. Polt doesn't win in KR because he's had a fucked up schedule in terms of difficulty over the last few months. Big difference.
On March 10 2012 09:38 Elem wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 09:23 CosmicSpiral wrote:On March 10 2012 08:55 Seraphone wrote:On March 10 2012 04:44 Kznn wrote:On March 10 2012 04:39 Sea_aeS wrote:
I really its time for Puma to be considered as a real top Korean !!! he's not considered top top korean cause of hes "week" tvz Is there a Korean Terran who's not weak in at least one matchup? MKP - TvT MMA - TvP MVP - TvP Puma - TvZ Ryung - TvP Ganzi - TvP Bomber - TvZ Polt - TvZ Not to mention they can all beat each in TvT on the right day anyway. MKP is not weak in TvT anymore. MMA is not weak in TvP anymore. Mvp was never weak in TvP. Polt is not weak in TvZ anymore. Beating Oz twice in his worst MU by far and a bunch of (very mid-tier) foreigners isn't really a reliable way to say that his TvP isn't awful anymore lol.
...
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United States23455 Posts
On March 10 2012 09:49 secretary bird wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 09:39 FinestHour wrote:On March 10 2012 09:33 secretary bird wrote:
Polt is hardly even a top korean , he is very beatable in any matchup and doesnt need a specific weakness tbh.
TvP is not a weak matchup for any player because basically all of them are worse at it because its just harder.
Rofl, get your facts straight kid. So Polt is as good as players like Alive or Gumiho? Or do you mean TvP ? Every single terran is bad at it according to TL except Puma and Polt maybe but they cant win anything in Korea these days. Didnt say it was impossible to win or too hard but I'm tired of hearing about it for 95% of terran players.
Yes, Polt is as good as Alive/Gumiho.
Gumiho had a great season, but he was pretty looked down upon before and was even laughed at during the group ceremonies before kicking everyone's ass. Polt has always been one of the most respected Terrans in Korea when it comes to group selections and is usually one of the last players picked.
I would say the top 10 Terrans at the moment, in no order: MMA, MVP, Alive, Jjakji, Polt, Gumiho, Supernova, MarineKing, Bomber, and Puma.
Puma is weird. He does amazingly well in foreign tournaments but seems to fold in Code A qualifiers against players he should face. I'm probably missing an obvious player in the top ten that is amazing.
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United States15275 Posts
On March 10 2012 11:35 Fionn wrote:
Puma is weird. He does amazingly well in foreign tournaments but seems to fold in Code A qualifiers against players he should face. I'm probably missing an obvious player in the top ten that is amazing.
Korean zergs. Puma has legitimate problems in TvZ that are only apparent when he can't outmuscle his opponent through sheer mechanics.
I think you can remove Supernova and put in sC/Taeja and it would be stronger. I'm having serious doubts about Supernova's ability to perform without prep.
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On March 10 2012 09:49 secretary bird wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 09:39 FinestHour wrote:On March 10 2012 09:33 secretary bird wrote:
Polt is hardly even a top korean , he is very beatable in any matchup and doesnt need a specific weakness tbh.
TvP is not a weak matchup for any player because basically all of them are worse at it because its just harder.
Rofl, get your facts straight kid. So Polt is as good as players like Alive or Gumiho? Or do you mean TvP ? Every single terran is bad at it according to TL except Puma and Polt maybe but they cant win anything in Korea these days. Didnt say it was impossible to win or too hard but I'm tired of hearing about it for 95% of terran players.
Actually I could argue that yes Polt is as good as Alive and Gumiho, if not better at some match ups. I believe that Alive is better at TvT and maybe TvZ than Polt is, but Polt is better at TvP.
Gumiho is like the person in the middle who's good at all match ups but isn't as good as Polt at TvP or Alive at TvT or TvZ.
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On March 10 2012 04:39 Sea_aeS wrote:
I really its time for Puma to be considered as a real top Korean !!!
A real top Korean would not lose to Stephano 0-3.
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On March 10 2012 06:05 SeaSwift wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 05:57 Dexington wrote:
Grats to Feast on getting top four. That is quite the feat, considering the competition at this event. To be fair, while he did do excellently, he only faced two Koreans who live in Korea. That was SuperNova (a 2-0), and Killer in a PvP, who he beat 3-2, before losing 1-3 against MC. This seems like a minor form of Huk-syndrome - he managed to miss Puma, MMA, Violet and Zenio. I wouldn't take anything away from his run though. It was seriously impressive, against some very good players. Feast is getting better and better, or at least his nerves seem to be affecting him less and less badly. I hope to see him performing well at other events - it's just a shame that it has to be yet another foreigner Protoss doing well. I wish Terran had some kind of foreigner star at the moment. Jinro must rise again!
I think Kas was in a good group after DRG decided not to come. But he could not play his tvp like that.
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On March 10 2012 06:21 GodOfWar wrote:
was hoping for MMA to win, kind of dislike PuMa for not performing well in GSL, and MC won pretty much foreign stuff already.
Anyways MMA should secure that 3rd place and hopefully bounce back strong for Code S.
I hope Mc can win this. in 2012, Toss only won a HSC. Too many terran and zerg wins already.
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On March 10 2012 06:21 Anachromy wrote:
Personally, I'd love to see a foreigner on the podium with a 3rd place finish. it is a WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP after all...
Go Feast Go!
Oh, and MC over PuMa 3-1, calling it now.
It would be truely amazing if Feast can finish 3rd. I mean although he did perform well lately, he has not yet defeated any Korean Super Star. MMA would be quite a superstar for him to handle.
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On March 10 2012 12:21 double620 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 04:39 Sea_aeS wrote:
I really its time for Puma to be considered as a real top Korean !!! A real top Korean would not lose to Stephano 0-3.
So if PuMa shuts MC out, he's not good enough to be a Top Korean?
Edit: Holy fuck kid, did you just quadruple post?
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EPT
