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On February 28 2012 22:12 Shawngood wrote:
Lately the league-part of the EPS generated a lot less interest than our bi-weekly Go4SC2 cups or our qualifier cups for the Intel Extreme Masters. We saw the need to change something and actually went for a very drastic tournament system change. This is how we are trying to fill the "regular season" with actually meaningful events and so far the cups have been quite exhiting if you ask me.
I am an esl.tv premium subscriber so it's not like I just hate on ESL but I can say that I really don't care about EPS anymore. The reason I didn't watch a lot of EPS the last two seasons is because the system change after 17 was just bad in the first place and in season 17 I had the feeling that I watched a show with effort behind it. I understand that the old Studio 1 was expensive and outdated but what I don't understand is that you now go to an even worse format and expect more viewers.
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Well you say it's worse but that's purely subjective, isn't it?
I personally never enjoyed the ladder system when there often wasn't a single interesting match on one playday and nothing really was on the line until the very end of the season.
Furthermore I'm pretty sure that at least the first cup (in parts due to proper promotion) had more viewers than there were in previous seasons.
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On February 28 2012 23:53 KalWarkov wrote:
just tlo misses.
He doesnt live in a german speaking country.
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This leech guy is hilarious does "first of all because i grew up in clanbase and i dislike ESL because of that." even make sense?
I like the format change alot, its way more interesting then the old format. You just have to spend one evening in the week to see the best lineup germany has to offer. Its funny to see so many of the elite proplayers get beaten in round 1 or 2 by relatively unknown players to most of the audience. But it is always good to see some new talent, where else can you see them face of with players like Goody, Socke, Hasu, Darkforce etc.
The pricepool is awesome for a regionlocked oneday tournament and everyone who goes in the top 8 will earn some money.
The casting is also quite good with Mr. Bitter and Rotterdam in english and Take for the german fans. Streamquality is also OK as a premium user. I only wish there would be some kind of overlay with some records and a photograph of the players or something. Would make it a bit more professional.
Oh and lets not forget the EPS Cast from www.sc2pro.de that airs every week with some insight from the players that played in the cup.
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I hope Goody performs well today. Maybe he finally gets less Toss in the first rounds 
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On February 28 2012 23:06 Influ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 22:12 Shawngood wrote:
Lately the league-part of the EPS generated a lot less interest than our bi-weekly Go4SC2 cups or our qualifier cups for the Intel Extreme Masters. We saw the need to change something and actually went for a very drastic tournament system change. This is how we are trying to fill the "regular season" with actually meaningful events and so far the cups have been quite exhiting if you ask me.
I am an esl.tv premium subscriber so it's not like I just hate on ESL but I can say that I really don't care about EPS anymore. The reason I didn't watch a lot of EPS the last two seasons is because the system change after 17 was just bad in the first place and in season 17 I had the feeling that I watched a show with effort behind it. I understand that the old Studio 1 was expensive and outdated but what I don't understand is that you now go to an even worse format and expect more viewers.
Imo format is much better now than before. Makes me watch EPS again. Please dont speak for all of us.
Oh and I have esl.tv premium too.
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On February 28 2012 22:12 Shawngood wrote:Quite some negativ feedback you guys are presenting there. Let's see if I can address some of your points. As I explained in the OP we are trying to get more players involved in the EPS since it's been a somewhat steady number of names up there for quite a while. I personally enjoy seeing players like monchi or NoXouT getting a chance to prove that they should have been part of the EPS in the first place. The old qualification system was very, very annoying for new players and I believe we made a good first step to get more people to play in the highest league in Germany. Lately the league-part of the EPS generated a lot less interest than our bi-weekly Go4SC2 cups or our qualifier cups for the Intel Extreme Masters. We saw the need to change something and actually went for a very drastic tournament system change. This is how we are trying to fill the "regular season" with actually meaningful events and so far the cups have been quite exhiting if you ask me. I don't really understand your "production value"-criticism as it sounds a bit generic. What exactly do you mean? Our shows on ESL.tv and TaKe.tv? Could you elaborate on that a bit? Is it the stream resolution? Because I believe the quality of our free stream has actually improved a ton in the past months. I understand that navigating our website can be quite a hustle - that's why threads on TeamLiquid are so great: I can just link to all necessary websites directly. 
there are successful leagues such as GSL with a working format. there are new players in korea pupping all the time. so i dont understand this could be a reason for switching. in other words i believe there must be more to it... its not reason enough to swtich the hole system right? flat tires.. new windows.. still makes no sense. you want new players? make it somehow easier for them to join... and saying go4sc2 has more attention only shows no one care about EPS. it does not say go4sc2 is the better format, right?
also your answer to "no attention" is NOT to go into the direction a GSL takes.. but rather going a step back to a "daily" cup format? this thing that a mediocre coded website can take care off all by itself? throw 2 casters into it and there you go. this is the plan for the following years?
sorry man that is just weak. besides socke (which im a huge fan of) there is absolutly no reason i would want to watch this. id rather watch korean or american tournaments. koreans are better skillwise and most americans have more interesting drama/personality.
we now have this cup thing.. thats kind of a german pro gamer league.. but actually its a cup. so.. why dont u buy our PPV and become a certified ESL player by buying a playercard?
ah come on!... you can do better then this ESL.
the reason i really am confused about this is because ESL is not some small 2-3 guy team that tries to get into the industry. but if there is no money for german esports there is no money. i guess.. its the only reason i can think of..
ps: production value (homestory cup aside).. interfaces, transitions, content between matches, building up storyline.. dont play one ad over 250 times.. and so on.. its a general thing so a generic answer seems fitting...
but i forgot u sometime switched to twitch tv after aloooong time so congrats on this one ;P
♥ no hard feelings. im not a player afterall.
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On February 29 2012 00:12 leecH wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 22:12 Shawngood wrote:Quite some negativ feedback you guys are presenting there. Let's see if I can address some of your points. As I explained in the OP we are trying to get more players involved in the EPS since it's been a somewhat steady number of names up there for quite a while. I personally enjoy seeing players like monchi or NoXouT getting a chance to prove that they should have been part of the EPS in the first place. The old qualification system was very, very annoying for new players and I believe we made a good first step to get more people to play in the highest league in Germany. Lately the league-part of the EPS generated a lot less interest than our bi-weekly Go4SC2 cups or our qualifier cups for the Intel Extreme Masters. We saw the need to change something and actually went for a very drastic tournament system change. This is how we are trying to fill the "regular season" with actually meaningful events and so far the cups have been quite exhiting if you ask me. I don't really understand your "production value"-criticism as it sounds a bit generic. What exactly do you mean? Our shows on ESL.tv and TaKe.tv? Could you elaborate on that a bit? Is it the stream resolution? Because I believe the quality of our free stream has actually improved a ton in the past months. I understand that navigating our website can be quite a hustle - that's why threads on TeamLiquid are so great: I can just link to all necessary websites directly. there are successful leagues such as GSL with a working format. there are new players in korea pupping all the time. so i dont understand this could be a reason for switching. in other words i believe there must be more to it... its not reason enough to swtich the hole system right? flat tires.. new windows.. still makes no sense. you want new players? make it somehow easier for them to join... and saying go4sc2 has more attention only shows no one care about EPS. it does not say go4sc2 is the better format, right? also your answer to "no attention" is NOT to go into the direction a GSL takes.. but rather going a step back to a "daily" cup format? this thing that a mediocre coded website can take care off all by itself? throw 2 casters into it and there you go. this is the plan for the following years? sorry man that is just weak. besides socke (which im a huge fan of) there is absolutly no reason i would want to watch this. id rather watch korean or american tournaments. koreans are better skillwise and most americans have more interesting drama/personality. we now have this cup thing.. thats kind of a german pro gamer league.. but actually its a cup. so.. why dont u buy our PPV and become a certified ESL player by buying a playercard? ah come on!... you can do better then this ESL. the reason i really am confused about this is because ESL is not some small 2-3 guy team that tries to get into the industry. but if there is no money for german esports there is no money. i guess.. its the only reason i can think of.. ps: production value (homestory cup aside).. interfaces, transitions, content between matches, building up storyline.. dont play one ad over 250 times.. and so on.. its a general thing so a generic answer seems fitting... but i forgot u sometime switched to twitch tv after aloooong time so congrats on this one ;P ♥ no hard feelings
In the last season it was extremely hard for a player that was not playing in the EPS to get much attention. And correct me if I'm wrong but until this season it took a year (or half a year) for a player to reach the EPS if everything went perfectly (except if you're TLO but that's another story). Now you don't need to be in the EPS anymore to get attention and to also get a possibilitly to make some prizemoney.
Furthermore with the old system it was possible for bad players to remain in the EPS due to luck with groups or because other players stopped playing. The new system is much more dynamic and in my opinion it ensures a much higher competition between the players.
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i find the eps quite exciting again, better than the groupstage system, but I still loved the old system the most just personal preference, but a league with 16 players where everybody plays everybody is just by far the most fair system ^^, but the cup system is exciting, looking forward to tonight again, cu at 7 we made a request for the calender so hopefully its up in time
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On February 29 2012 00:34 RotterdaM wrote:i find the eps quite exciting again, better than the groupstage system, but I still loved the old system the most just personal preference, but a league with 16 players where everybody plays everybody is just by far the most fair system ^^, but the cup system is exciting, looking forward to tonight again, cu at 7 we made a request for the calender so hopefully its up in time
Except for the problem that some players can't gurantee eps niveau for a long time. I mean obviously the very best ones like Hasu, Socke, etc can, but players 10-16 for example are very likely to have active and unactive phases and there will be a lot of better players not participating.
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On February 29 2012 00:39 Tigi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 00:34 RotterdaM wrote:i find the eps quite exciting again, better than the groupstage system, but I still loved the old system the most just personal preference, but a league with 16 players where everybody plays everybody is just by far the most fair system ^^, but the cup system is exciting, looking forward to tonight again, cu at 7 we made a request for the calender so hopefully its up in time Except for the problem that some players can't gurantee eps niveau for a long time. I mean obviously the very best ones like Hasu, Socke, etc can, but players 10-16 for example are very likely to have active and unactive phases and there will be a lot of better players not participating.
But that's no reason to change it. Every pro sport has that system, and if guys are not able to motivate themselves when they have no shot of reaching the final anymore they are not the type of players we need in e-sports ~ in all honesty, why cant players motivate themselve for a 100 Euro bo3 while they would play random only cups for 50 euro, odds 1/128 of winning 50 euro or 1/2 on 100 Eu? I still think that was the best system, I know why they changed it, I just don't agree with it ;P
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Shawn, rotti, bitter or whoever is responsible for the PR stuff: you need to link the event to the TL sidebar. There were several ESL events where this wasn`t done and hte majority of the fans simply did not watch, because they didn`t realise it was on.
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On February 29 2012 01:16 zul wrote:
Shawn, rotti, bitter or whoever is responsible for the PR stuff: you need to link the event to the TL sidebar. There were several ESL events where this wasn`t done and hte majority of the fans simply did not watch, because they didn`t realise it was on.
On February 29 2012 00:34 RotterdaM wrote:
we made a request for the calender so hopefully its up in time
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nice op! better late than never .. : )
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On February 29 2012 01:20 Ippo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 01:16 zul wrote:
Shawn, rotti, bitter or whoever is responsible for the PR stuff: you need to link the event to the TL sidebar. There were several ESL events where this wasn`t done and hte majority of the fans simply did not watch, because they didn`t realise it was on. Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 00:34 RotterdaM wrote:
we made a request for the calender so hopefully its up in time
oh, I didn`t see that.
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I watched the first eps cup and it was fun, you can build up good stories about the players, eas vs eps
would love to see better promotion
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here just the names who are likely to play those cups (end of this season or next season) because they live in germany/swiss/austria:
 HasuObs
Socke
 DarkFoRcE
 GoOdy
ClouD
Delphi
biGs
monchi
ReaL
Phoenix
Mondragon
XlorD
DBS
filled up with GM players only (like mtwrine, rmdx and others), cause germany has a lot of them. I wouldnt call this bad at all oO Obviously they always will play every cup, but its possible
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The cup system is so much better than the old one!
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On February 29 2012 01:16 zul wrote:
Shawn, rotti, bitter or whoever is responsible for the PR stuff: you need to link the event to the TL sidebar. There were several ESL events where this wasn`t done and hte majority of the fans simply did not watch, because they didn`t realise it was on.
That's the reason why the go4sc2 cups get more viewers, they are properly advertised, while the EPS is still not on the sidebar one hour before it starts....
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EPT
