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On February 23 2012 22:24 Ghrimnar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 22:20 petro1987 wrote:On February 23 2012 22:06 ChaosTerran wrote: Just think about this. When Blizzard said that terran is the least succesful race on the ladder, was there a huge shitstorm by terran players with 20 whine threads about how blizzard needs to fix the race? No of course not, barely anyone complained, and the few who complained were just told to play better (in other words they were told that P and Z players are just better in general). Now think about the same scenario just with the exception that it's not terran who is the weakest ladder race but P or Z. Can you imagine the shitstorm people would start? How many threads on TL and the bnet forums where everyone demands an insta buff for the weakest race? It's so ridiculous and hypocritical, it actually makes my cry and laugh at the same time. Well... What can we do? There are like 20% of Terran players in TL, if not less. Would you really expect anything different? You see, people love to say T is OP no matter what. It's a good excuse for their own losses. It's a psychological defence. 36% Terran on TL And one GSL final without Terran is no problem. Nobody really cares. Stop whine.
I don't the numbers exactly (20% was just an "estimate"), but I'm pretty sure there was a poll back then where T was the least represented race here in TL.
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On February 23 2012 22:27 althaz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 21:37 ChaosTerran wrote: blizzard ladder stats (just read the blog post in which david kim explicitly states that terran is doing the worst of all 3 races on ladder. Check your facts Terran is still winning more than 50% of games at highish levels of ladder according to David Kim - he said people were COMPLAINING that Terran is weaker, which should show up as lower win percentages than the other races, but their statistics and evidence shows otherwise. IMO though, Terran takes better mechanics (but can be worse at strategy) than the other races at high levels. Once you get to Code S that's no longer the case though most-likely (obviously I have no first-hand experience here). I play random btw. I read almost every thinly-veiled balance whine in the strategy forums (usually tagged with [d] or [h]), and I can't remember any games where players lost when they deserved to win. Therefore balance must be pretty good (I don't like ZvT or PvZ though, those are hard, but that's just because I suck at them).
Let me quote D. Kim for you ok?
That said, we have noticed that terran at lower skill levels are underperforming a bit, especially vs. zerg and somewhat vs. protoss. We suspect that the initial complexity of the terran race may be a contributing factor to this, so internally, we’re experimenting with moving some of the new terran units around to make terran slightly more intuitive to play — at lower levels only.
and
Still, we are aware that at lower levels of play, terran isn’t performing as well as they are at the pro level and we’re examining different solutions to deal with that issue.
http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/3599263/Questions_from_the_Community_-25_01_2012#blog
What he means with "lower levels of play" is of course open for debate. But since he said "lower levels compared to pro player" I assume that it's everything outside of Grandmaster league. Also terran is the least played race in the higher leagues, BY FAR. And the most played race at the lower leagues, which also hints towards the fact that terran is just weaker on the ladder.
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On February 23 2012 22:33 ChaosTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 22:27 althaz wrote:On February 23 2012 21:37 ChaosTerran wrote: blizzard ladder stats (just read the blog post in which david kim explicitly states that terran is doing the worst of all 3 races on ladder. Check your facts Terran is still winning more than 50% of games at highish levels of ladder according to David Kim - he said people were COMPLAINING that Terran is weaker, which should show up as lower win percentages than the other races, but their statistics and evidence shows otherwise. IMO though, Terran takes better mechanics (but can be worse at strategy) than the other races at high levels. Once you get to Code S that's no longer the case though most-likely (obviously I have no first-hand experience here). I play random btw. I read almost every thinly-veiled balance whine in the strategy forums (usually tagged with [d] or [h]), and I can't remember any games where players lost when they deserved to win. Therefore balance must be pretty good (I don't like ZvT or PvZ though, those are hard, but that's just because I suck at them). Let me quote D. Kim for you ok? Show nested quote +That said, we have noticed that terran at lower skill levels are underperforming a bit, especially vs. zerg and somewhat vs. protoss. We suspect that the initial complexity of the terran race may be a contributing factor to this, so internally, we’re experimenting with moving some of the new terran units around to make terran slightly more intuitive to play — at lower levels only. and Show nested quote +Still, we are aware that at lower levels of play, terran isn’t performing as well as they are at the pro level and we’re examining different solutions to deal with that issue. http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/3599263/Questions_from_the_Community_-25_01_2012#blogWhat he means with "lower levels of play" is of course open for debate. But since he said "lower levels compared to pro player" I assume that it's everything outside of Grandmaster league. Also terran is the least played race in the higher leagues, BY FAR. And the most played race at the lower leagues, which also hints towards the fact that terran is just weaker on the ladder.
there were 2 terrans in top 4 thats 50% seems pretty balanced
cant wait for the mvp finals, drg has a hard way to travel though
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non-terran champ ccccc combo breaker inc.
Too bad I missed everything U_U
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On February 23 2012 22:27 ChaosTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 22:24 Ghrimnar wrote:On February 23 2012 22:20 petro1987 wrote:On February 23 2012 22:06 ChaosTerran wrote: Just think about this. When Blizzard said that terran is the least succesful race on the ladder, was there a huge shitstorm by terran players with 20 whine threads about how blizzard needs to fix the race? No of course not, barely anyone complained, and the few who complained were just told to play better (in other words they were told that P and Z players are just better in general). Now think about the same scenario just with the exception that it's not terran who is the weakest ladder race but P or Z. Can you imagine the shitstorm people would start? How many threads on TL and the bnet forums where everyone demands an insta buff for the weakest race? It's so ridiculous and hypocritical, it actually makes my cry and laugh at the same time. Well... What can we do? There are like 20% of Terran players in TL, if not less. Would you really expect anything different? You see, people love to say T is OP no matter what. It's a good excuse for their own losses. It's a psychological defence. 36% Terran on TL And one GSL final without Terran is no problem. Nobody really cares. Stop whine. At least prove that. Anyone can claim random stuff. prove that nobody cares? funny you... + Show Spoiler +liquid race stats (by user icon) were somewhere in liquidbet->results back in the days, but i dont find them now. edit: guess the removed the feature, all i see is a top 100
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icon doesnt mean much anyway many people are too lazy to change them/dont want people to know.
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On February 23 2012 22:35 ChriseC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 22:33 ChaosTerran wrote:On February 23 2012 22:27 althaz wrote:On February 23 2012 21:37 ChaosTerran wrote: blizzard ladder stats (just read the blog post in which david kim explicitly states that terran is doing the worst of all 3 races on ladder. Check your facts Terran is still winning more than 50% of games at highish levels of ladder according to David Kim - he said people were COMPLAINING that Terran is weaker, which should show up as lower win percentages than the other races, but their statistics and evidence shows otherwise. IMO though, Terran takes better mechanics (but can be worse at strategy) than the other races at high levels. Once you get to Code S that's no longer the case though most-likely (obviously I have no first-hand experience here). I play random btw. I read almost every thinly-veiled balance whine in the strategy forums (usually tagged with [d] or [h]), and I can't remember any games where players lost when they deserved to win. Therefore balance must be pretty good (I don't like ZvT or PvZ though, those are hard, but that's just because I suck at them). Let me quote D. Kim for you ok? That said, we have noticed that terran at lower skill levels are underperforming a bit, especially vs. zerg and somewhat vs. protoss. We suspect that the initial complexity of the terran race may be a contributing factor to this, so internally, we’re experimenting with moving some of the new terran units around to make terran slightly more intuitive to play — at lower levels only. and Still, we are aware that at lower levels of play, terran isn’t performing as well as they are at the pro level and we’re examining different solutions to deal with that issue. http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/3599263/Questions_from_the_Community_-25_01_2012#blogWhat he means with "lower levels of play" is of course open for debate. But since he said "lower levels compared to pro player" I assume that it's everything outside of Grandmaster league. Also terran is the least played race in the higher leagues, BY FAR. And the most played race at the lower leagues, which also hints towards the fact that terran is just weaker on the ladder. there were 2 terrans in top 4 thats 50% seems pretty balanced cant wait for the mvp finals, drg has a hard way to travel though
You completely missed the point though.
On February 23 2012 22:36 Heimatloser wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 22:27 ChaosTerran wrote:On February 23 2012 22:24 Ghrimnar wrote:On February 23 2012 22:20 petro1987 wrote:On February 23 2012 22:06 ChaosTerran wrote: Just think about this. When Blizzard said that terran is the least succesful race on the ladder, was there a huge shitstorm by terran players with 20 whine threads about how blizzard needs to fix the race? No of course not, barely anyone complained, and the few who complained were just told to play better (in other words they were told that P and Z players are just better in general). Now think about the same scenario just with the exception that it's not terran who is the weakest ladder race but P or Z. Can you imagine the shitstorm people would start? How many threads on TL and the bnet forums where everyone demands an insta buff for the weakest race? It's so ridiculous and hypocritical, it actually makes my cry and laugh at the same time. Well... What can we do? There are like 20% of Terran players in TL, if not less. Would you really expect anything different? You see, people love to say T is OP no matter what. It's a good excuse for their own losses. It's a psychological defence. 36% Terran on TL And one GSL final without Terran is no problem. Nobody really cares. Stop whine. At least prove that. Anyone can claim random stuff. prove that nobody cares? funny you... + Show Spoiler +liquid race stats (by user icon) were somewhere in liquidbet->results back in the days, but i dont find them now. edit: guess the removed the feature, all i see is a top 100
If you really, really don't care, just don't respond. And most importantly, don't make up random statistics just to prove your point.
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So glad genius seems to be shining after so long just hovering in code s.
DRG is going to take his first GSL final though
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On February 23 2012 22:06 ChaosTerran wrote: Just think about this. When Blizzard said that terran is the least succesful race on the ladder, was there a huge shitstorm by terran players with 20 whine threads about how blizzard needs to fix the race? No of course not, barely anyone complained, and the few who complained were just told to play better (in other words they were told that P and Z players are just better in general). Now think about the same scenario just with the exception that it's not terran who is the weakest ladder race but P or Z. Can you imagine the shitstorm people would start? How many threads on TL and the bnet forums where everyone demands an insta buff for the weakest race? It's so ridiculous and hypocritical, it actually makes my cry and laugh at the same time.
What no whining? whaaaaattt? no posts? OMG TERRANS ARE BITCHING SO FUCKING HARD LATELY. Also there is a difference between " how come terran can make 5 rax reapers and i cant do anything" and "ive been playing MMMVG for a year and half and now that protoss has understood how to get up to Colossi archon templar Zealots deathballs I loose. Still i dont rethink my end game composition. Please help!"
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So hyped for the finals!
DRG vs Genius - team MvP showdown! DRG is probably going to win, but I really want genius to win something ever since Blizzcon 2 years ago.
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On February 23 2012 22:47 Headnoob wrote: So glad genius seems to be shining after so long just hovering in code s.
DRG is going to take his first GSL final though
oh u have to consider drg has to travel to mlg and back again and genius has an advantage in practice time, also i think genius knows drg's playstyle quite well what i hope is that its not that onesided or every game ends in a 2base allin
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On February 23 2012 22:27 ChaosTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 22:24 Ghrimnar wrote:On February 23 2012 22:20 petro1987 wrote:On February 23 2012 22:06 ChaosTerran wrote: Just think about this. When Blizzard said that terran is the least succesful race on the ladder, was there a huge shitstorm by terran players with 20 whine threads about how blizzard needs to fix the race? No of course not, barely anyone complained, and the few who complained were just told to play better (in other words they were told that P and Z players are just better in general). Now think about the same scenario just with the exception that it's not terran who is the weakest ladder race but P or Z. Can you imagine the shitstorm people would start? How many threads on TL and the bnet forums where everyone demands an insta buff for the weakest race? It's so ridiculous and hypocritical, it actually makes my cry and laugh at the same time. Well... What can we do? There are like 20% of Terran players in TL, if not less. Would you really expect anything different? You see, people love to say T is OP no matter what. It's a good excuse for their own losses. It's a psychological defence. 36% Terran on TL And one GSL final without Terran is no problem. Nobody really cares. Stop whine. At least prove that. Anyone can claim random stuff.
32.8% people DO claim random stuff.
Also, SO PUMPED for this finals
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I keep reason these threads every morning and every morning when I click on the last page it is people crying about how weak Terran is, even when they win ever non mirror series like the other days code A. It's good for an early morning laugh.
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On February 23 2012 22:56 Zath.erin wrote: I keep reason these threads every morning and every morning when I click on the last page it is people crying about how weak Terran is, even when they win ever non mirror series like the other days code A. It's good for an early morning laugh.
ye the same goes for me the first pages are fine but the later it gets the more it ends into weird whine
i am happy with the current state of terran, i dont feel underrepresented
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Nice all MVP finals. It's crazy how these two guys were in the same group in both the round of 32 and 16
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If you haven't already heard, DongRapedGu.
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On February 23 2012 22:49 Douillos wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 22:06 ChaosTerran wrote: Just think about this. When Blizzard said that terran is the least succesful race on the ladder, was there a huge shitstorm by terran players with 20 whine threads about how blizzard needs to fix the race? No of course not, barely anyone complained, and the few who complained were just told to play better (in other words they were told that P and Z players are just better in general). Now think about the same scenario just with the exception that it's not terran who is the weakest ladder race but P or Z. Can you imagine the shitstorm people would start? How many threads on TL and the bnet forums where everyone demands an insta buff for the weakest race? It's so ridiculous and hypocritical, it actually makes my cry and laugh at the same time. What no whining? whaaaaattt? no posts? OMG TERRANS ARE BITCHING SO FUCKING HARD LATELY. Also there is a difference between " how come terran can make 5 rax reapers and i cant do anything" and "ive been playing MMMVG for a year and half and now that protoss has understood how to get up to Colossi archon templar Zealots deathballs I loose. Still i dont rethink my end game composition. Please help!"
MMMVG is the best endgame composition end of story unless you can prove otherwise.
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On February 23 2012 23:02 ardi wrote: If you haven't already heard, DongRapedGu.
The only thing I heard, is that the bird is the word.
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On February 23 2012 22:49 Douillos wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 22:06 ChaosTerran wrote: Just think about this. When Blizzard said that terran is the least succesful race on the ladder, was there a huge shitstorm by terran players with 20 whine threads about how blizzard needs to fix the race? No of course not, barely anyone complained, and the few who complained were just told to play better (in other words they were told that P and Z players are just better in general). Now think about the same scenario just with the exception that it's not terran who is the weakest ladder race but P or Z. Can you imagine the shitstorm people would start? How many threads on TL and the bnet forums where everyone demands an insta buff for the weakest race? It's so ridiculous and hypocritical, it actually makes my cry and laugh at the same time. What no whining? whaaaaattt? no posts? OMG TERRANS ARE BITCHING SO FUCKING HARD LATELY. Also there is a difference between " how come terran can make 5 rax reapers and i cant do anything" and "ive been playing MMMVG for a year and half and now that protoss has understood how to get up to Colossi archon templar Zealots deathballs I loose. Still i dont rethink my end game composition. Please help!"
I feel like you are having a different conversation here, because nothing of what I said had anything to do with this. I mean I get it, english isn't your native language (neither is it mine), but at least put in enough effort to actually read and understand my post before you reply.
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Genius takes the finals. DRG just doesn't win any finals that aren't a special event's.
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