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[GSL] 2012 Season 1 Code S "The Chosen Four" - Page 146

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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petro1987
Profile Joined May 2009
Brazil374 Posts
February 23 2012 13:30 GMT
#2901
On February 23 2012 22:24 Ghrimnar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 23 2012 22:20 petro1987 wrote:
On February 23 2012 22:06 ChaosTerran wrote:
Just think about this. When Blizzard said that terran is the least succesful race on the ladder, was there a huge shitstorm by terran players with 20 whine threads about how blizzard needs to fix the race? No of course not, barely anyone complained, and the few who complained were just told to play better (in other words they were told that P and Z players are just better in general). Now think about the same scenario just with the exception that it's not terran who is the weakest ladder race but P or Z. Can you imagine the shitstorm people would start? How many threads on TL and the bnet forums where everyone demands an insta buff for the weakest race? It's so ridiculous and hypocritical, it actually makes my cry and laugh at the same time.


Well... What can we do? There are like 20% of Terran players in TL, if not less. Would you really expect anything different? You see, people love to say T is OP no matter what. It's a good excuse for their own losses. It's a psychological defence.


36% Terran on TL

And one GSL final without Terran is no problem. Nobody really cares. Stop whine.


I don't the numbers exactly (20% was just an "estimate"), but I'm pretty sure there was a poll back then where T was the least represented race here in TL.
ChaosTerran
Profile Joined August 2011
Austria844 Posts
February 23 2012 13:33 GMT
#2902
On February 23 2012 22:27 althaz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 23 2012 21:37 ChaosTerran wrote:
blizzard ladder stats (just read the blog post in which david kim explicitly states that terran is doing the worst of all 3 races on ladder.

Check your facts Terran is still winning more than 50% of games at highish levels of ladder according to David Kim - he said people were COMPLAINING that Terran is weaker, which should show up as lower win percentages than the other races, but their statistics and evidence shows otherwise.

IMO though, Terran takes better mechanics (but can be worse at strategy) than the other races at high levels. Once you get to Code S that's no longer the case though most-likely (obviously I have no first-hand experience here). I play random btw.

I read almost every thinly-veiled balance whine in the strategy forums (usually tagged with [d] or [h]), and I can't remember any games where players lost when they deserved to win. Therefore balance must be pretty good (I don't like ZvT or PvZ though, those are hard, but that's just because I suck at them).


Let me quote D. Kim for you ok?

That said, we have noticed that terran at lower skill levels are underperforming a bit, especially vs. zerg and somewhat vs. protoss. We suspect that the initial complexity of the terran race may be a contributing factor to this, so internally, we’re experimenting with moving some of the new terran units around to make terran slightly more intuitive to play — at lower levels only.


and

Still, we are aware that at lower levels of play, terran isn’t performing as well as they are at the pro level and we’re examining different solutions to deal with that issue.


http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/3599263/Questions_from_the_Community_-25_01_2012#blog

What he means with "lower levels of play" is of course open for debate. But since he said "lower levels compared to pro player" I assume that it's everything outside of Grandmaster league. Also terran is the least played race in the higher leagues, BY FAR. And the most played race at the lower leagues, which also hints towards the fact that terran is just weaker on the ladder.
ChriseC
Profile Joined December 2010
Germany440 Posts
February 23 2012 13:35 GMT
#2903
On February 23 2012 22:33 ChaosTerran wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 23 2012 22:27 althaz wrote:
On February 23 2012 21:37 ChaosTerran wrote:
blizzard ladder stats (just read the blog post in which david kim explicitly states that terran is doing the worst of all 3 races on ladder.

Check your facts Terran is still winning more than 50% of games at highish levels of ladder according to David Kim - he said people were COMPLAINING that Terran is weaker, which should show up as lower win percentages than the other races, but their statistics and evidence shows otherwise.

IMO though, Terran takes better mechanics (but can be worse at strategy) than the other races at high levels. Once you get to Code S that's no longer the case though most-likely (obviously I have no first-hand experience here). I play random btw.

I read almost every thinly-veiled balance whine in the strategy forums (usually tagged with [d] or [h]), and I can't remember any games where players lost when they deserved to win. Therefore balance must be pretty good (I don't like ZvT or PvZ though, those are hard, but that's just because I suck at them).


Let me quote D. Kim for you ok?

Show nested quote +
That said, we have noticed that terran at lower skill levels are underperforming a bit, especially vs. zerg and somewhat vs. protoss. We suspect that the initial complexity of the terran race may be a contributing factor to this, so internally, we’re experimenting with moving some of the new terran units around to make terran slightly more intuitive to play — at lower levels only.


and

Show nested quote +
Still, we are aware that at lower levels of play, terran isn’t performing as well as they are at the pro level and we’re examining different solutions to deal with that issue.


http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/3599263/Questions_from_the_Community_-25_01_2012#blog

What he means with "lower levels of play" is of course open for debate. But since he said "lower levels compared to pro player" I assume that it's everything outside of Grandmaster league. Also terran is the least played race in the higher leagues, BY FAR. And the most played race at the lower leagues, which also hints towards the fact that terran is just weaker on the ladder.


there were 2 terrans in top 4 thats 50% seems pretty balanced

cant wait for the mvp finals, drg has a hard way to travel though
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
February 23 2012 13:35 GMT
#2904
non-terran champ ccccc combo breaker inc.

Too bad I missed everything U_U
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
Heimatloser
Profile Joined March 2009
Germany1494 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-23 13:40:05
February 23 2012 13:36 GMT
#2905
On February 23 2012 22:27 ChaosTerran wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 23 2012 22:24 Ghrimnar wrote:
On February 23 2012 22:20 petro1987 wrote:
On February 23 2012 22:06 ChaosTerran wrote:
Just think about this. When Blizzard said that terran is the least succesful race on the ladder, was there a huge shitstorm by terran players with 20 whine threads about how blizzard needs to fix the race? No of course not, barely anyone complained, and the few who complained were just told to play better (in other words they were told that P and Z players are just better in general). Now think about the same scenario just with the exception that it's not terran who is the weakest ladder race but P or Z. Can you imagine the shitstorm people would start? How many threads on TL and the bnet forums where everyone demands an insta buff for the weakest race? It's so ridiculous and hypocritical, it actually makes my cry and laugh at the same time.


Well... What can we do? There are like 20% of Terran players in TL, if not less. Would you really expect anything different? You see, people love to say T is OP no matter what. It's a good excuse for their own losses. It's a psychological defence.


36% Terran on TL

And one GSL final without Terran is no problem. Nobody really cares. Stop whine.


At least prove that. Anyone can claim random stuff.

prove that nobody cares? funny you...
+ Show Spoiler +
liquid race stats (by user icon) were somewhere in liquidbet->results back in the days, but i dont find them now.
edit: guess the removed the feature, all i see is a top 100
All what KT currently needs is a Zerg and a second Terran
secretary bird
Profile Joined September 2011
447 Posts
February 23 2012 13:39 GMT
#2906
icon doesnt mean much anyway many people are too lazy to change them/dont want people to know.
ChaosTerran
Profile Joined August 2011
Austria844 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-23 13:43:19
February 23 2012 13:42 GMT
#2907
On February 23 2012 22:35 ChriseC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 23 2012 22:33 ChaosTerran wrote:
On February 23 2012 22:27 althaz wrote:
On February 23 2012 21:37 ChaosTerran wrote:
blizzard ladder stats (just read the blog post in which david kim explicitly states that terran is doing the worst of all 3 races on ladder.

Check your facts Terran is still winning more than 50% of games at highish levels of ladder according to David Kim - he said people were COMPLAINING that Terran is weaker, which should show up as lower win percentages than the other races, but their statistics and evidence shows otherwise.

IMO though, Terran takes better mechanics (but can be worse at strategy) than the other races at high levels. Once you get to Code S that's no longer the case though most-likely (obviously I have no first-hand experience here). I play random btw.

I read almost every thinly-veiled balance whine in the strategy forums (usually tagged with [d] or [h]), and I can't remember any games where players lost when they deserved to win. Therefore balance must be pretty good (I don't like ZvT or PvZ though, those are hard, but that's just because I suck at them).


Let me quote D. Kim for you ok?

That said, we have noticed that terran at lower skill levels are underperforming a bit, especially vs. zerg and somewhat vs. protoss. We suspect that the initial complexity of the terran race may be a contributing factor to this, so internally, we’re experimenting with moving some of the new terran units around to make terran slightly more intuitive to play — at lower levels only.


and

Still, we are aware that at lower levels of play, terran isn’t performing as well as they are at the pro level and we’re examining different solutions to deal with that issue.


http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/3599263/Questions_from_the_Community_-25_01_2012#blog

What he means with "lower levels of play" is of course open for debate. But since he said "lower levels compared to pro player" I assume that it's everything outside of Grandmaster league. Also terran is the least played race in the higher leagues, BY FAR. And the most played race at the lower leagues, which also hints towards the fact that terran is just weaker on the ladder.


there were 2 terrans in top 4 thats 50% seems pretty balanced

cant wait for the mvp finals, drg has a hard way to travel though


You completely missed the point though.

On February 23 2012 22:36 Heimatloser wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 23 2012 22:27 ChaosTerran wrote:
On February 23 2012 22:24 Ghrimnar wrote:
On February 23 2012 22:20 petro1987 wrote:
On February 23 2012 22:06 ChaosTerran wrote:
Just think about this. When Blizzard said that terran is the least succesful race on the ladder, was there a huge shitstorm by terran players with 20 whine threads about how blizzard needs to fix the race? No of course not, barely anyone complained, and the few who complained were just told to play better (in other words they were told that P and Z players are just better in general). Now think about the same scenario just with the exception that it's not terran who is the weakest ladder race but P or Z. Can you imagine the shitstorm people would start? How many threads on TL and the bnet forums where everyone demands an insta buff for the weakest race? It's so ridiculous and hypocritical, it actually makes my cry and laugh at the same time.


Well... What can we do? There are like 20% of Terran players in TL, if not less. Would you really expect anything different? You see, people love to say T is OP no matter what. It's a good excuse for their own losses. It's a psychological defence.


36% Terran on TL

And one GSL final without Terran is no problem. Nobody really cares. Stop whine.


At least prove that. Anyone can claim random stuff.

prove that nobody cares? funny you...
+ Show Spoiler +
liquid race stats (by user icon) were somewhere in liquidbet->results back in the days, but i dont find them now.
edit: guess the removed the feature, all i see is a top 100


If you really, really don't care, just don't respond. And most importantly, don't make up random statistics just to prove your point.
Headnoob
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia2108 Posts
February 23 2012 13:47 GMT
#2908
So glad genius seems to be shining after so long just hovering in code s.

DRG is going to take his first GSL final though
Douillos
Profile Joined May 2010
France3195 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-23 13:52:07
February 23 2012 13:49 GMT
#2909
On February 23 2012 22:06 ChaosTerran wrote:
Just think about this. When Blizzard said that terran is the least succesful race on the ladder, was there a huge shitstorm by terran players with 20 whine threads about how blizzard needs to fix the race? No of course not, barely anyone complained, and the few who complained were just told to play better (in other words they were told that P and Z players are just better in general). Now think about the same scenario just with the exception that it's not terran who is the weakest ladder race but P or Z. Can you imagine the shitstorm people would start? How many threads on TL and the bnet forums where everyone demands an insta buff for the weakest race? It's so ridiculous and hypocritical, it actually makes my cry and laugh at the same time.



What no whining? whaaaaattt? no posts? OMG TERRANS ARE BITCHING SO FUCKING HARD LATELY.
Also there is a difference between " how come terran can make 5 rax reapers and i cant do anything" and "ive been playing MMMVG for a year and half and now that protoss has understood how to get up to Colossi archon templar Zealots deathballs I loose. Still i dont rethink my end game composition. Please help!"
Look a giraffe! Look a fist!!
Wockets
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Hong Kong467 Posts
February 23 2012 13:49 GMT
#2910
So hyped for the finals!

DRG vs Genius - team MvP showdown!
DRG is probably going to win, but I really want genius to win something ever since Blizzcon 2 years ago.
ChriseC
Profile Joined December 2010
Germany440 Posts
February 23 2012 13:51 GMT
#2911
On February 23 2012 22:47 Headnoob wrote:
So glad genius seems to be shining after so long just hovering in code s.

DRG is going to take his first GSL final though


oh u have to consider drg has to travel to mlg and back again and genius has an advantage in practice time, also i think genius knows drg's playstyle quite well
what i hope is that its not that onesided or every game ends in a 2base allin
TheDougler
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada8304 Posts
February 23 2012 13:52 GMT
#2912
On February 23 2012 22:27 ChaosTerran wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 23 2012 22:24 Ghrimnar wrote:
On February 23 2012 22:20 petro1987 wrote:
On February 23 2012 22:06 ChaosTerran wrote:
Just think about this. When Blizzard said that terran is the least succesful race on the ladder, was there a huge shitstorm by terran players with 20 whine threads about how blizzard needs to fix the race? No of course not, barely anyone complained, and the few who complained were just told to play better (in other words they were told that P and Z players are just better in general). Now think about the same scenario just with the exception that it's not terran who is the weakest ladder race but P or Z. Can you imagine the shitstorm people would start? How many threads on TL and the bnet forums where everyone demands an insta buff for the weakest race? It's so ridiculous and hypocritical, it actually makes my cry and laugh at the same time.


Well... What can we do? There are like 20% of Terran players in TL, if not less. Would you really expect anything different? You see, people love to say T is OP no matter what. It's a good excuse for their own losses. It's a psychological defence.


36% Terran on TL

And one GSL final without Terran is no problem. Nobody really cares. Stop whine.


At least prove that. Anyone can claim random stuff.


32.8% people DO claim random stuff.

Also, SO PUMPED for this finals
I root for Euro Zergs, NA Protoss* and Korean Terrans. (Any North American who has beat a Korean Pro as Protoss counts as NA Toss)
Zath.erin
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada429 Posts
February 23 2012 13:56 GMT
#2913
I keep reason these threads every morning and every morning when I click on the last page it is people crying about how weak Terran is, even when they win ever non mirror series like the other days code A. It's good for an early morning laugh.
I put my pants on just like the rest of you - one leg at a time. Except once my pants are on, i make gold records!
ChriseC
Profile Joined December 2010
Germany440 Posts
February 23 2012 13:59 GMT
#2914
On February 23 2012 22:56 Zath.erin wrote:
I keep reason these threads every morning and every morning when I click on the last page it is people crying about how weak Terran is, even when they win ever non mirror series like the other days code A. It's good for an early morning laugh.


ye the same goes for me
the first pages are fine but the later it gets the more it ends into weird whine

i am happy with the current state of terran, i dont feel underrepresented
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
February 23 2012 14:01 GMT
#2915
Nice all MVP finals. It's crazy how these two guys were in the same group in both the round of 32 and 16
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
ardi
Profile Joined February 2012
United States187 Posts
February 23 2012 14:02 GMT
#2916
If you haven't already heard, DongRapedGu.
Doors block the thrust of life!!!!
secretary bird
Profile Joined September 2011
447 Posts
February 23 2012 14:08 GMT
#2917
On February 23 2012 22:49 Douillos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 23 2012 22:06 ChaosTerran wrote:
Just think about this. When Blizzard said that terran is the least succesful race on the ladder, was there a huge shitstorm by terran players with 20 whine threads about how blizzard needs to fix the race? No of course not, barely anyone complained, and the few who complained were just told to play better (in other words they were told that P and Z players are just better in general). Now think about the same scenario just with the exception that it's not terran who is the weakest ladder race but P or Z. Can you imagine the shitstorm people would start? How many threads on TL and the bnet forums where everyone demands an insta buff for the weakest race? It's so ridiculous and hypocritical, it actually makes my cry and laugh at the same time.



What no whining? whaaaaattt? no posts? OMG TERRANS ARE BITCHING SO FUCKING HARD LATELY.
Also there is a difference between " how come terran can make 5 rax reapers and i cant do anything" and "ive been playing MMMVG for a year and half and now that protoss has understood how to get up to Colossi archon templar Zealots deathballs I loose. Still i dont rethink my end game composition. Please help!"


MMMVG is the best endgame composition end of story unless you can prove otherwise.
Douillos
Profile Joined May 2010
France3195 Posts
February 23 2012 14:08 GMT
#2918
On February 23 2012 23:02 ardi wrote:
If you haven't already heard, DongRapedGu.


The only thing I heard, is that the bird is the word.
Look a giraffe! Look a fist!!
ChaosTerran
Profile Joined August 2011
Austria844 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-23 14:10:09
February 23 2012 14:08 GMT
#2919
On February 23 2012 22:49 Douillos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 23 2012 22:06 ChaosTerran wrote:
Just think about this. When Blizzard said that terran is the least succesful race on the ladder, was there a huge shitstorm by terran players with 20 whine threads about how blizzard needs to fix the race? No of course not, barely anyone complained, and the few who complained were just told to play better (in other words they were told that P and Z players are just better in general). Now think about the same scenario just with the exception that it's not terran who is the weakest ladder race but P or Z. Can you imagine the shitstorm people would start? How many threads on TL and the bnet forums where everyone demands an insta buff for the weakest race? It's so ridiculous and hypocritical, it actually makes my cry and laugh at the same time.



What no whining? whaaaaattt? no posts? OMG TERRANS ARE BITCHING SO FUCKING HARD LATELY.
Also there is a difference between " how come terran can make 5 rax reapers and i cant do anything" and "ive been playing MMMVG for a year and half and now that protoss has understood how to get up to Colossi archon templar Zealots deathballs I loose. Still i dont rethink my end game composition. Please help!"


I feel like you are having a different conversation here, because nothing of what I said had anything to do with this. I mean I get it, english isn't your native language (neither is it mine), but at least put in enough effort to actually read and understand my post before you reply.
AXygnus
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Portugal1008 Posts
February 23 2012 14:10 GMT
#2920
Genius takes the finals. DRG just doesn't win any finals that aren't a special event's.
"To create, to recreate. To create, to recreate. Down to the last seed, I stand with a dark stare. Still silent. Still frighteningly silent."
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