On February 05 2012 12:23 Wroshe wrote: Even though the series was sort of scrappy it was still entertaining. The excuses people make are sort of hilarious though. If anything this proves even more the current volatility of the scene.
Personally I feel that Jjakji is a bit overhyped even though he has a GSL Code S title. I agree, the finals were very good but his way to the final was not very convincing. In the group stages he lost to Killer and then rebounded with wins over SuperNova and Virus. His secound group stage involved getting stomped by MVP and then getting the walk-over over CoCa into a TvT win over the mediocre Gumiho(TvT Speaking). After that he beat Puzzle, Oz and Leenock to grab the title, those three are of high calibre. Still he had quite an easy path to the finals.
Are you serious? Beating Puzzle and Oz to quite easy path to the finals???????
Puzzle and Oz probably #1 #2 Toss players in this scene both have fantastic PvT,and leenock best ZvT along with DongRaeGu.
Jjakji's path to finals was quite tought.
Yes, I am absolutely serious. He had a very weak first group set (in which he even lost to Killer) and in the second he relied on a walk over to get a second chance against a (definatly at the time) very weak TvTer. Sure Puzzle and Oz are both great players but compare that path against some other paths in that same GSL.
Out of those paths (some are imaginary) definatly Leenock's, MMA's and sC's are harder. Depending on how you look you can also make cases for some of the others.
very weak TvTer is GuMiHo? Didnt he crush IMMvp in Code S,how can he have weak TvT? o_O.Losing SangHo doesnt mean anything since you won the whole tournament.
whatever,just look at NesTea's GSL July path to finals;Ro32 July,Ro16 Ensnare, Ro8 CoCa,Ro4 HongUn,Final LosirA.
still im saying jjakji's path to final is one of the toughest.
Also jjakji won in new format,which is 10x harder than older formats.
GuMiHo is known for having VERY weak TvT. No one pegged him to beat MVP at all.
On February 05 2012 12:13 Asha` wrote: Well, pretty awful series.
Jjakji obviously with his mind on the GSL.
Hero played alright.
This excuse never gets old.
^_^ it's a good one.
Jjakji played much worse than normal for whatever reason, being involved in the GSL and about to play possibly 2 seperate Code S toss isn't exactly an implausible reason for why his play was so untypical of his usual game.
Or it could be that Jjakji is being hyped up wayyyyy harder that he deserves to be. Fantastic player, but I still feel he isn't as good as he is hyped up to be.
I disagree, being due to play 2 protoss players in code S is an extremely legit excuse to not show what you are capable of and instead reveal false weaknesses, as legit as an excuse gets, up there with collapsed lung.
Honestly if players want to hide builds in "B-tier tournaments" and preserve their A-Game they either shouldn't play in them or it shouldn't be used as an excuse. You can't have it both ways.
The players aren't using it as an excuse anyway, it's just random forum people who dislike the outcome of the match.
I was mainly aiming that at disgruntled forum fanbois. Not that it would have had any influence on them but trying doesn't hurt.
We have fans of supposedly "overhyped" players projecting their sensitivities on other supposedly "overhyped" players. each player's fans hate the fans of the other. That's all this is. None of the insults in this thread have any merit, or contain any poison, it's just some people feeling good for being right tonight, and others grumbling for being wrong.
There are also those who read too much into and are too sensitive to what internet posters type. We need to band together to remove those. They annoy me.
On February 05 2012 12:23 Wroshe wrote: Even though the series was sort of scrappy it was still entertaining. The excuses people make are sort of hilarious though. If anything this proves even more the current volatility of the scene.
Personally I feel that Jjakji is a bit overhyped even though he has a GSL Code S title. I agree, the finals were very good but his way to the final was not very convincing. In the group stages he lost to Killer and then rebounded with wins over SuperNova and Virus. His secound group stage involved getting stomped by MVP and then getting the walk-over over CoCa into a TvT win over the mediocre Gumiho(TvT Speaking). After that he beat Puzzle, Oz and Leenock to grab the title, those three are of high calibre. Still he had quite an easy path to the finals.
Are you serious? Beating Puzzle and Oz to quite easy path to the finals???????
Puzzle and Oz probably #1 #2 Toss players in this scene both have fantastic PvT,and leenock best ZvT along with DongRaeGu.
Jjakji's path to finals was quite tought.
Yes, I am absolutely serious. He had a very weak first group set (in which he even lost to Killer) and in the second he relied on a walk over to get a second chance against a (definatly at the time) very weak TvTer. Sure Puzzle and Oz are both great players but compare that path against some other paths in that same GSL.
Out of those paths (some are imaginary) definatly Leenock's, MMA's and sC's are harder. Depending on how you look you can also make cases for some of the others.
very weak TvTer is GuMiHo? Didnt he crush IMMvp in Code S,how can he have weak TvT? o_O.Losing SangHo doesnt mean anything since you won the whole tournament.
whatever,just look at NesTea's GSL July path to finals;Ro32 July,Ro16 Ensnare, Ro8 CoCa,Ro4 HongUn,Final LosirA.
still im saying jjakji's path to final is one of the toughest.
Also jjakji won in new format,which is 10x harder than older formats.
GuMiHo is known for having VERY weak TvT. No one pegged him to beat MVP at all.
At the end,he beat MVP.This still means something.
On February 05 2012 12:19 Kommander wrote: Why the fuck does Hero have doubters and haters here? He's a nice guy who cares for his fans and who is actually a top class Protoss, what has he ever done to you guys? -__-
It comes with popularity. If you don't have any haters, you are not that hot, and HerO is extremely hot XD
I don't hate Hero in any shape or form, but I, along with others, just find it obnoxious how overhyped he is. Obviously he's a liquid player, but the extent to which he is hyped up as "the best protoss player in the world" can get to you. It's not as bad anymore, but it'll linger on in our minds.
On February 05 2012 12:23 Wroshe wrote: Even though the series was sort of scrappy it was still entertaining. The excuses people make are sort of hilarious though. If anything this proves even more the current volatility of the scene.
Personally I feel that Jjakji is a bit overhyped even though he has a GSL Code S title. I agree, the finals were very good but his way to the final was not very convincing. In the group stages he lost to Killer and then rebounded with wins over SuperNova and Virus. His secound group stage involved getting stomped by MVP and then getting the walk-over over CoCa into a TvT win over the mediocre Gumiho(TvT Speaking). After that he beat Puzzle, Oz and Leenock to grab the title, those three are of high calibre. Still he had quite an easy path to the finals.
Are you serious? Beating Puzzle and Oz to quite easy path to the finals???????
Puzzle and Oz probably #1 #2 Toss players in this scene both have fantastic PvT,and leenock best ZvT along with DongRaeGu.
Jjakji's path to finals was quite tought.
Yes, I am absolutely serious. He had a very weak first group set (in which he even lost to Killer) and in the second he relied on a walk over to get a second chance against a (definatly at the time) very weak TvTer. Sure Puzzle and Oz are both great players but compare that path against some other paths in that same GSL.
Out of those paths (some are imaginary) definatly Leenock's, MMA's and sC's are harder. Depending on how you look you can also make cases for some of the others.
very weak TvTer is GuMiHo? Didnt he crush IMMvp in Code S,how can he have weak TvT? o_O.Losing SangHo doesnt mean anything since you won the whole tournament.
whatever,just look at NesTea's GSL July path to finals;Ro32 July,Ro16 Ensnare, Ro8 CoCa,Ro4 HongUn,Final LosirA.
still im saying jjakji's path to final is one of the toughest.
Also jjakji won in new format,which is 10x harder than older formats.
GuMiHo is known for having VERY weak TvT. No one pegged him to beat MVP at all.
At the end,he beat MVP.This still means something.
Also jjakji is known for his weak TvT.
It does. But I think it is still more due to MVP playing poorly than Gumiho playing extraordinarily well. Hell, one game MVP pushed out and realized that he forgot siege mode. Siege mode man!
Straight up HerO is the best Protoss in the world. I have no TL bias. Fact is he's beaten many awesome Terrans and Zergs in high pressure situations, and he simply BLEEDS APM and actually USES Protoss with SKILL without relying on a deathball. The only other Protoss with the skill in micro and multitasking is HuK and Hero seems to have better macro/better decision making.
On February 05 2012 13:30 Techno wrote: Straight up HerO is the best Protoss in the world. I have no TL bias. Fact is he's beaten many awesome Terrans and Zergs in high pressure situations, and he simply BLEEDS APM and actually USES Protoss with SKILL without relying on a deathball. The only other Protoss with the skill in micro and multitasking is HuK and Hero seems to have better macro/better decision making.
Yeah sure whatever. Wake me up when he gets to Code S and plays consistently well against Koreans.
On February 05 2012 13:30 Techno wrote: Straight up HerO is the best Protoss in the world. I have no TL bias. Fact is he's beaten many awesome Terrans and Zergs in high pressure situations, and he simply BLEEDS APM and actually USES Protoss with SKILL without relying on a deathball. The only other Protoss with the skill in micro and multitasking is HuK and Hero seems to have better macro/better decision making.
Winning a showmatch and instantly become the best toss! omg.....
On February 05 2012 13:30 Techno wrote: Straight up HerO is the best Protoss in the world. I have no TL bias. Fact is he's beaten many awesome Terrans and Zergs in high pressure situations, and he simply BLEEDS APM and actually USES Protoss with SKILL without relying on a deathball. The only other Protoss with the skill in micro and multitasking is HuK and Hero seems to have better macro/better decision making.
This is why Hero has "haters". Never mind that Hero was eliminated in the group stages of HSC4 and IEM kiev, being owned by mostly foreigners, and is constantly out performed by MC. He's the best protoss because he uses the deathball with "skill".
Not to say all Hero fans are delusional, mind you, or anything against Hero. Just need to offset the insanity you know?
On February 05 2012 11:33 CrazyBirdman wrote: An who the hell cares whether Jjikji is bringing GSL builds or not. He plays in a 500$ with a chance for qualifying for another he is trying his best and he is up against the DreamHack Winter winner and NASL Season2 finalist.
500$ is about how much he gets in a few hours worth of stream-time in Korea. Just saying...
That's an exaggeration by quite a bit, especially in February. To allude that Jjakji somehow doesn't want to win this or doesn't care about winning this series is silly. Sure this isn't a GSL championship to him, but that's a dumb metric to hold to anything. If we only count championship level focus and play for every event, we're not going to have a lot of useful results.
I'm not saying that Jjakji isn't trying to win But if somebody thinks that 500$ is somehow life-changing or a big sum to a pro-gamer, they gotta rethink how much money these guys can make.
500 dollars is a big sum to ANY pro gamer? what are you high or something? yeah destiny streams and makes 600 dollars the whole day if he streams but how many times does he stream a week? like once? holy do people think all pro gamers are like millionaires or something
10k people watching this match and they are playing for fame,money isnt everything.
money isnt everything? lol you make me laugh.. fame = money so how can you say money isnt everything .. more famous they get more tournaments they get invited to .. what you think most of these sc2 players switch over to get peanuts? no there main objective was to earn MONEY
when you get fame,money instantly comes to you.
but first: fame.
idiot thats what i just said.. you are probably the only person who would trade 1 million dollars for popularity
On February 05 2012 13:30 Techno wrote: Straight up HerO is the best Protoss in the world. I have no TL bias. Fact is he's beaten many awesome Terrans and Zergs in high pressure situations, and he simply BLEEDS APM and actually USES Protoss with SKILL without relying on a deathball. The only other Protoss with the skill in micro and multitasking is HuK and Hero seems to have better macro/better decision making.
This is why Hero has "haters". Never mind that Hero was eliminated in the group stages of HSC4 and IEM kiev, being owned by mostly foreigners, and is constantly out performed by MC. He's the best protoss because he uses the deathball with "skill".
Not to say all Hero fans are delusional, mind you, or anything against Hero. Just need to offset the insanity you know?
To his defense though it's pretty hard to find an alternate to MC. Nani, Sage, Huk(ish), Hero, and kinda genius have all laid claims to the #2 spot for a month. Ofc there's the time when no toss was winning when people tried to dethrone MC but... honestly MC's still a level above all of the others.
On February 05 2012 12:23 Wroshe wrote: Even though the series was sort of scrappy it was still entertaining. The excuses people make are sort of hilarious though. If anything this proves even more the current volatility of the scene.
Personally I feel that Jjakji is a bit overhyped even though he has a GSL Code S title. I agree, the finals were very good but his way to the final was not very convincing. In the group stages he lost to Killer and then rebounded with wins over SuperNova and Virus. His secound group stage involved getting stomped by MVP and then getting the walk-over over CoCa into a TvT win over the mediocre Gumiho(TvT Speaking). After that he beat Puzzle, Oz and Leenock to grab the title, those three are of high calibre. Still he had quite an easy path to the finals.
Are you serious? Beating Puzzle and Oz to quite easy path to the finals???????
Puzzle and Oz probably #1 #2 Toss players in this scene both have fantastic PvT,and leenock best ZvT along with DongRaeGu.
Jjakji's path to finals was quite tought.
Yes, I am absolutely serious. He had a very weak first group set (in which he even lost to Killer) and in the second he relied on a walk over to get a second chance against a (definatly at the time) very weak TvTer. Sure Puzzle and Oz are both great players but compare that path against some other paths in that same GSL.
Out of those paths (some are imaginary) definatly Leenock's, MMA's and sC's are harder. Depending on how you look you can also make cases for some of the others.
very weak TvTer is GuMiHo? Didnt he crush IMMvp in Code S,how can he have weak TvT? o_O.Losing SangHo doesnt mean anything since you won the whole tournament.
whatever,just look at NesTea's GSL July path to finals;Ro32 July,Ro16 Ensnare, Ro8 CoCa,Ro4 HongUn,Final LosirA.
still im saying jjakji's path to final is one of the toughest.
Also jjakji won in new format,which is 10x harder than older formats.
GuMiHo is known for having VERY weak TvT. No one pegged him to beat MVP at all.
Puzzle and oz 1# and 2# toss? GTFO what about MC, Genius, ect
Can we please just accept that players' skills can be highly variable, that luck is sometimes a factor, and stop trying to attribute wins and losses to our own biases like a bunch of conspiracy theorists? -____-
On that note, congrats to Hero on the deserved victory
On February 05 2012 13:30 Techno wrote: Straight up HerO is the best Protoss in the world. I have no TL bias. Fact is he's beaten many awesome Terrans and Zergs in high pressure situations, and he simply BLEEDS APM and actually USES Protoss with SKILL without relying on a deathball. The only other Protoss with the skill in micro and multitasking is HuK and Hero seems to have better macro/better decision making.
This much hype for a Code A player who has only won 1 tournament, and has had no significant headway in Code S? Please... This is why HerO has so many haters, it's not because of his play, which is well deserved of praise, but because fans like you overhype SO MUCH. He's a great Protoss player, yes, but not deserving of the title "best Protoss in the world." Need I remind you of his 0-5 dismantling by Polt? Or how about getting shut-out in GSL Blizzard Cup? Or how about losing to Violet in the first round of HSC IV, his best matchup? Or how about getting defeated by foreigners in IEM Kiev? The list goes on... Until HerO can win GSL, I will call MC the Protoss President. Everybody else is pretty much second rate.
On February 05 2012 12:23 Wroshe wrote: Even though the series was sort of scrappy it was still entertaining. The excuses people make are sort of hilarious though. If anything this proves even more the current volatility of the scene.
Personally I feel that Jjakji is a bit overhyped even though he has a GSL Code S title. I agree, the finals were very good but his way to the final was not very convincing. In the group stages he lost to Killer and then rebounded with wins over SuperNova and Virus. His secound group stage involved getting stomped by MVP and then getting the walk-over over CoCa into a TvT win over the mediocre Gumiho(TvT Speaking). After that he beat Puzzle, Oz and Leenock to grab the title, those three are of high calibre. Still he had quite an easy path to the finals.
Are you serious? Beating Puzzle and Oz to quite easy path to the finals???????
Puzzle and Oz probably #1 #2 Toss players in this scene both have fantastic PvT,and leenock best ZvT along with DongRaeGu.
Jjakji's path to finals was quite tought.
Yes, I am absolutely serious. He had a very weak first group set (in which he even lost to Killer) and in the second he relied on a walk over to get a second chance against a (definatly at the time) very weak TvTer. Sure Puzzle and Oz are both great players but compare that path against some other paths in that same GSL.
Out of those paths (some are imaginary) definatly Leenock's, MMA's and sC's are harder. Depending on how you look you can also make cases for some of the others.
very weak TvTer is GuMiHo? Didnt he crush IMMvp in Code S,how can he have weak TvT? o_O.Losing SangHo doesnt mean anything since you won the whole tournament.
whatever,just look at NesTea's GSL July path to finals;Ro32 July,Ro16 Ensnare, Ro8 CoCa,Ro4 HongUn,Final LosirA.
still im saying jjakji's path to final is one of the toughest.
Also jjakji won in new format,which is 10x harder than older formats.
GuMiHo is known for having VERY weak TvT. No one pegged him to beat MVP at all.
At the end,he beat MVP.This still means something.
Also jjakji is known for his weak TvT.
It does. But I think it is still more due to MVP playing poorly than Gumiho playing extraordinarily well. Hell, one game MVP pushed out and realized that he forgot siege mode. Siege mode man!
Most people don't realize that Gumiho's style is one of multitasking that forces your opponent to work as much as you are and it just forces mistakes because you end up worn out by everything. However, it makes Gumiho look sloppy because he's doing so much and when you do so much, it's impossible to do everything well.
It's actually a lot like MMA who you'll notice fucks up here and there and gets massively behind but at the same time can make someone like Nestea look bad.
On February 05 2012 12:23 Wroshe wrote: Even though the series was sort of scrappy it was still entertaining. The excuses people make are sort of hilarious though. If anything this proves even more the current volatility of the scene.
Personally I feel that Jjakji is a bit overhyped even though he has a GSL Code S title. I agree, the finals were very good but his way to the final was not very convincing. In the group stages he lost to Killer and then rebounded with wins over SuperNova and Virus. His secound group stage involved getting stomped by MVP and then getting the walk-over over CoCa into a TvT win over the mediocre Gumiho(TvT Speaking). After that he beat Puzzle, Oz and Leenock to grab the title, those three are of high calibre. Still he had quite an easy path to the finals.
Are you serious? Beating Puzzle and Oz to quite easy path to the finals???????
Puzzle and Oz probably #1 #2 Toss players in this scene both have fantastic PvT,and leenock best ZvT along with DongRaeGu.
Jjakji's path to finals was quite tought.
Yes, I am absolutely serious. He had a very weak first group set (in which he even lost to Killer) and in the second he relied on a walk over to get a second chance against a (definatly at the time) very weak TvTer. Sure Puzzle and Oz are both great players but compare that path against some other paths in that same GSL.
Out of those paths (some are imaginary) definatly Leenock's, MMA's and sC's are harder. Depending on how you look you can also make cases for some of the others.
very weak TvTer is GuMiHo? Didnt he crush IMMvp in Code S,how can he have weak TvT? o_O.Losing SangHo doesnt mean anything since you won the whole tournament.
whatever,just look at NesTea's GSL July path to finals;Ro32 July,Ro16 Ensnare, Ro8 CoCa,Ro4 HongUn,Final LosirA.
still im saying jjakji's path to final is one of the toughest.
Also jjakji won in new format,which is 10x harder than older formats.
GuMiHo is known for having VERY weak TvT. No one pegged him to beat MVP at all.
Puzzle and oz 1# and 2# toss? GTFO what about MC, Genius, ect
at that time oz was probably the best toss, the best in that season at the very least.. puzzle not so much
EPT
