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Thread unlocked. Please THINK before you post, and rest assured that ANY infringement of the rules will be dealt with severely. NO caster bashing NO balance whine NO player bashing NO bad manner of any sort Thanks! - riptide | ||
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Silidons
United States2813 Posts
On November 20 2011 23:13 trucane wrote: Please tell me you are just joking. Thumbing down your opponent who told everyone he would destroy you is the least you could expect sigh nvm i cant retort anything without getting a warn | ||
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Fyzar
Netherlands8010 Posts
It's the only one that there is no VoD of  . | ||
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Gurgl
Sweden308 Posts
Naniwa's english vocabulary isn't the best and sometimes he words things strangely so it can be easy to misunderstand his point, he's also very honest and doesn't sugarcoat his opinions which can seem harsh at times. When people who aren't native english speakers talk, especially in stressful situations, you can't take everything they say literally. | ||
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TheBamf
Denmark366 Posts
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MavivaM
1535 Posts
A couple of words, a snapshot of the camera out of context and here they come the all-knowing users who besides an internet ID have nothing to lose. Sad that people are more interested in bullshits instead of the real reason they should watch a player. I guess Naniwa needs to win more tournaments or become so famous that people will forgive him everything. | ||
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Titorelli
2492 Posts
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
On November 20 2011 23:54 Titorelli wrote: Since I dont have infinite time which match should I rather watch, MC v Idra or MMA v DRG? MC vs Idra. At least it had some funky play. MMA vs DRG was just MMA playing mediocre and DRG punishing him for it. | ||
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Elvin
149 Posts
BEFORE the ordeal with the map happened, another ordeal happened. I caught in the chat one of the players saying that they needed to use the W.C. before the match started (I don't know which one it was), to which the admin responded "no, we have to start now". Then RedB said "ask your admin" to which the admin in the chat responded "we're going now" and they immediately cut to the ads on the player screens. At that point Artosis and Tasteless are still on the screen, but the match had started. Then Tasteless says something about "NaNiWa says he's going to pause the match.... we have to sort this out" - at which point I realized that it was NaNiWa that had to use the bathroom, and after about a minute of play (which was never put on the screen), paused the match. That's when they cut to the paused game in which there was OVER a minute of play time played. At this point, nobody really did anything, until the admins on stage realized that it was a horrible situation and they had to let him go to the bathroom (I get that they were late to start with... but it seems unreasonable to start a match when one of your players isn't ready because of time issues). That's when they cut away, NaNiWa left the booth (presumably to go to the bathroom). NesTea looks pretty pissed at this point (as pissed as you can imagine NesTea looking). The coach comes over to the booth and tells him he can go to the bathroom, and he's like but dude I'm already settled (I could tell because of his body language), and then finally agrees to go anyway. They both get back and they decide to restart the match. EXCEPT. NaNiWa got back before NesTea (I believe), but in any case, he quickly pulled up the replay from the match before anybody could stop him. As soon as the official on the stage realized, he went into the booth to tell him to stop, but it was too late, NaNiWa had already seen the starting position of NesTea. This went largely unnoticed." Starting position is obviously not the only thing NaNiWa is seeing in that replay. He's watching NesTeas starting build order, completely unbeknown to NesTea! Considering he doesn't have any issues pulling up the replay, who even knows what he's doing while he's "going to the bathroom?" He could easily be talking to someone who's already been watching NesTea play for the first minute+ of the game. Second: "The officials allowed NaNiWa's coach INTO THE PLAYER BOOTH with 1:47 on the clock and the game paused. The coach talked to NaNiWa for a minute or two before he left and shut the door. Then a few minutes later, gameplay resumed ... This entire time, NesTea is sitting in his booth, looking defeated. At this point, it's over half an hour since the first attempt at this game had started, and he must not be in his proper mindset." | ||
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ParasitJonte
Sweden1768 Posts
On November 20 2011 23:51 Gurgl wrote: Naniwa never called Nestea an idiot, he said that he thought Nestea did something genius with the dronepull and hid a base somewhere, it ended up being an idiotic decision from Nestea in Naniwa's honest opinion. Naniwa's english vocabulary isn't the best and sometimes he words things strangely so it can be easy to misunderstand his point, he's also very honest and doesn't sugarcoat his opinions which can seem harsh at times. When people who aren't native english speakers talk, especially in stressful situations, you can't take everything they say literally. To be honest, I think most Swedish people listening to that interview will take it completely different from how others will. Because in Swedish he would've probably said something like: "Jag trodde han gjorde något smart skit, som att bygga ett hatchery långt bort och flyttade dronsen dit. Att han var så genialisk. Men tydligen var han bara en idiot." Where the last sentence literally translates to the person being referred to as an idiot, but in common speak you understand it to be the action taken being referred to as idiotic. Though he did use "is" instead of "was", but I think that was a mistake. | ||
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Polox
Sweden115 Posts
On November 20 2011 23:39 Hubris wrote: His English is bad, but there is not doubt he meant him as a person. Unless he was referring to worker pull as a genius idea. His convo was in reference to a drone pull but that whole comment can not be taken any other way but to reference the person in the English language. Furthermore, I don't believe his apology. If he meant it, he would've clarified before the game as he knew Nestea was mad about the insult. Instead he thumbs down Nestea right after the pause debacle. Yes, his english is really bad no doubt about that. According to you he meant that yea, I for one did not make the assumption that he meant that Nestea is an idiot. Rather that his move was idiotic. And you can't have the expectations that a player who is playing in a tournament to apology just becouse some player got upset of his comment, which was probably due to his bad english. Seriously some people just has to whine and complain. | ||
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msjakofsky
1169 Posts
On November 20 2011 20:50 ItsMeDomLee wrote: I think BoxeR did some big cheese on him like proxy barracks on terminus and Idra raged because he wasn't going to get into the playoffs due to losing. big cheese? boxer proxied one rax at 14, built the one in base at 11. this is standard terran opening vs z and boxer does this literally in every single tvz he plays. stop trying to justify not gging to boxer | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
On November 20 2011 23:51 Gurgl wrote: Not that I care much, but technically that doesn't really improve the situation by a lot. He showed a lot of disrespect for a 3-times GSL champion, by many other things he said about him in this interview, and even using the word "idiotic" to describe a poor decision wouldn't normally be suitable when you talk about someone who is as respected as Nestea.Naniwa never called Nestea an idiot, he said that he thought Nestea did something genius with the dronepull and hid a base somewhere, it ended up being an idiotic decision from Nestea in Naniwa's honest opinion. Naniwa's english vocabulary isn't the best and sometimes he words things strangely so it can be easy to misunderstand his point, he's also very honest and doesn't sugarcoat his opinions which can seem harsh at times. When people who aren't native english speakers talk, especially in stressful situations, you can't take everything they say literally. But the really good thing is that Naniwa apologized, and props for that. | ||
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Gurgl
Sweden308 Posts
On November 21 2011 00:18 figq wrote: Not that I care much, but technically that doesn't really improve the situation by a lot. He showed a lot of disrespect for a 3-times GSL champion, by many other things he said about him in this interview, and even using the word "idiotic" to describe a poor decision wouldn't normally be suitable when you talk about someone who is as respected as Nestea. What's so hard to get, Naniwa is pretty bad at english. Using "bad" would have been more appropriate than "idiotic" and he could have worded it better to make it more apparent that it was Nesteas decision he was referring to. I can see how it can be hard to understand for native english speakers, especially if you don't know any other languages, so you don't know how hard it can be to get your point across in a language you aren't that comfortable using. If Naniwa had said something I found disrespectful against Nestea then I certainly wouldn't defend him, he's not my favourite player or anything. Every Swede posting in this thread seems to understand how Naniwa meant what he said, isn't that evidence enough that he wasn't being disrespectful? | ||
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SuperStyle
United States976 Posts
NaNiWa had already seen the starting position of NesTea Its a cross map spawn only Shakurs, EVERYONE knows where your opponent spawns. Nevertheless, it was not that map and Nani scouted cross spawn seeing Nestea wasnt there which is why he paused and complained about the wrong map, after the resume it was pretty obvious where Nestea spawn location was considering he cant spawn north of Naniwa. STOP THE DRAMA, zergs can lose without other races having to cheat. | ||
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Grend
1600 Posts
#2 The first attempt at playing game 3 The game was mistakenly started by the casters while the admin was still in the booth talking to players. Nestea was taken off guard, had to rush back to get his keyboard (etc) ready. It was a false start one could say and the commissioner decided to restart so both players had a fair and even start. 3. The second attempt at playing game 3 Naniwa misunderstood the admin (complete miscommunication that I personally attribute to the language barrier). The game was paused as Naniwa refused to play. 4. The "Coach" incident I personally went to the crowd and got Scott and escorted him to the booth. Why? Naniwa was about to be DQ'd for refusing to play due to the miscommunication. I stood there as Scott told him he had to play. 5. Naniwa did receive a technical for various infractions. EDIT: Claryfying MLG Statement: "After extensive investigation, review of the video files and 2011 Pro Circuit rules, we have determined that the replay had no impact on the tournament flow or the match results. Build orders are displayed at the end of a match on the stats screen. So the replay that was viewed would have revealed nothing the match stats page would not have revealed otherwise. Additionally, to clarify, the Complexity manager was allowed in the booth, accompanied by MLG staff, after the match had started in order to keep the game in motion after a discrepancy with his player that would have impacted the continuation of the game. Moving forward, we will look at rules outlawing any replay views on a tournament PC" Okay let us try to put this thing to an end. Here is some information I`ve gathered about the whole Nestea vs Naniwa situation. 1. Naniwa calling Nestea an idiot Naniwa did call Nestea an idiot. But he did it referencing one particular episode. He was referencing the episode where Nestea decided to pull his drones for an attack, but was only feinting and withdrew his drones before reaching Naniwas base. So he did call him an idiot, but there is a strong case for him simply trying to communicate that he thought that particular tactical move was idiotic . Naniwa also said that playing versus MVP and Nestea was easier than he had imagined: http://tv.majorleaguegaming.com/videos/79158-naniwa-interview-after-winning-the-global-invitational Naniwa apologized for this later: "I must have formulated myself badly in the interviews I did not mean to call nestea bad. Or. An idiot watch next col iview. . " https://twitter.com/#!/CoLNaniwa 2. The first attempt at playing game 3 This is what I`ve gathered: Naniwa needed to go to the toilet after game 2. He asked the admins to go. This is allowed in the rules but the decision is up to the admin. Apparently the admin said no, and the game was started. But without the admin knowing the stream had in the meantime started showing an ad. So the start of the game was not shown. At some point the game was paused. Then it was decided that the game would be restarted, and the players would get a chance to go to the toilet before starting the game over. "Basically in game 3, the map was Shak. The game was begun before the stream was out of commercial which meant they had to stop and re-enter the game again." Reddit witness account: "I caught in the chat one of the players saying that they needed to use the W.C. before the match started (I don't know which one it was), to which the admin responded "no, we have to start now". Then RedB said "ask your admin" to which the admin in the chat responded "we're going now" and they immediately cut to the ads on the player screens. At that point Artosis and Tasteless are still on the screen, but the match had started. Then Tasteless says something about "NaNiWa says he's going to pause the match.... we have to sort this out" - at which point I realized that it was NaNiWa that had to use the bathroom, and after about a minute of play (which was never put on the screen), paused the match. That's when they cut to the paused game in which there was OVER a minute of play time played. At this point, nobody really did anything, until the admins on stage realized that it was a horrible situation and they had to let him go to the bathroom (I get that they were late to start with... but it seems unreasonable to start a match when one of your players isn't ready because of time issues). That's when they cut away, NaNiWa left the booth (presumably to go to the bathroom). " Sources: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/mimi3/whats_happening_with_naniwa_vs_nestea/c318hvn http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/mimi3/whats_happening_with_naniwa_vs_nestea/ 2. The replay incident After going to the toilet Naniwa is said to have loaded up the replay of the game that was aborted. (This is known because his screen apparently was shown on a large screen visible to the audience) This is not strictly against MLG rules and he could already see the build order on the game ending screen. An Admin went into his booth and told him to stop. At this point Naniwa had already seen Nestea`s build. MLG statement "After extensive investigation, review of the video files and 2011 Pro Circuit rules, we have determined that the replay had no impact on the tournament flow or the match results. Build orders are displayed at the end of a match on the stats screen. So the replay that was viewed would have revealed nothing the match stats page would not have revealed otherwise. Redditt witness: "NaNiWa got back before NesTea (I believe), but in any case, he quickly pulled up the replay from the match before anybody could stop him. As soon as the official on the stage realized, he went into the booth to tell him to stop, but it was too late, NaNiWa had already seen the starting position of NesTea." http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/mivks/can_someone_explain_to_me_how_this_isnt_cheating/ 3. The second attempt at playing game 3 After quite some time game 3 was remade and they started playing. Naniwa moved a probe across the map (thinking for some reason that the map was cross positions only) and when he got to where he assumed Nestea would be (but was not) he paused the game. Some background here: Earlier MLG events used to have this map be only cross positions. This has later been changed and now adheres to the Blizzard ladder versions rules to positions. Then this happened: ![[image loading]](http://a.yfrog.com/img875/5148/gn3ij.jpg) Naniwa reacted strongly and claimed that a admin had said to him that the map was cross positions only. According to Sundance this was not correct: "He made a mistake then claimed it was the ref.Hhe picked before our admin even went into the booth. Some maps have crosses some do not. He chose one thinking that it was a cross position map when it wasn't. Not a big deal in the end but annoying none the less." So here we have two different versions of what went down. 4. The "Coach" incident Apparently to calm the situation down and to make Naniwa ready to continue playing, MLG staff allowed the Player Manager (Not Coach) of Complexity gaming, Scott Ford to enter Naniwa`s booth. He was there to relay what MLG had decided. No regame and that it was his fault I can only assume. Then after a while the game was restarted. MLG Statement about the incident: "Additionally, to clarify, the Complexity manager was allowed in the booth, accompanied by MLG staff, after the match had started in order to keep the game in motion after a discrepancy with his player that would have impacted the continuation of the game." Reddit Eye witness: "I could see the lead admin guy ask and look at all of the other officials on the stage, to which people were shaking their heads, as if everyone was agreeing that nobody told him this. At that point, the official went back in the booth to break the bad news to NaNiWa. NaNiWa was PISSED, visually repeating "NO, NO, NO!". It was apparent that he felt cheated, which I believe that he actually was. If he was told cross spawns, and it wasn't, that could seriously mess up your entire game, and in my opinion, the game should have been replayed." Sources: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=286835¤tpage=665#13288 http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/mimi3/whats_happening_with_naniwa_vs_nestea/ Naniwa ended up winning the game. 5. Naniwa being punished by MLG. MLG have two different rulesets that applies to these kind of situations. You have the event rules, and the conduct rules. Event rules decide ingame stuff and series stuff. Break these rules and you may lose the game or the series. http://pro.majorleaguegaming.com/competitions/25#event_54_event_rules Naniwa did break the pause game rules. He paused the game without asking the referee. This gets you a WARNING. A WARNING is largely inconsequential. It only matters if you get more warnings and may lose you the game you are playing. They do not stay with the player throughout the event. "Each subsequent Warning that a Player receives will result in a Forfeit of the Game" Conduct rules decide real life stuff and conduct. These can lose you map picking privilegies among other stuff. http://pro.majorleaguegaming.com/competitions/25#event_54_conduct_rules Slasher at first said that Naniwa got a technical foul from his quotes. He later withdrew that statement. https://twitter.com/#!/SLASHER At this point Naniwa has gotten a technical foul. | ||
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BarbieHsu
574 Posts
On November 21 2011 00:05 Elvin wrote: So I was sitting in the front row of the main stage while this whole thing went down. Let me try to give some context. BEFORE the ordeal with the map happened, another ordeal happened. I caught in the chat one of the players saying that they needed to use the W.C. before the match started (I don't know which one it was), to which the admin responded "no, we have to start now". Then RedB said "ask your admin" to which the admin in the chat responded "we're going now" and they immediately cut to the ads on the player screens. At that point Artosis and Tasteless are still on the screen, but the match had started. Then Tasteless says something about "NaNiWa says he's going to pause the match.... we have to sort this out" - at which point I realized that it was NaNiWa that had to use the bathroom, and after about a minute of play (which was never put on the screen), paused the match. That's when they cut to the paused game in which there was OVER a minute of play time played. At this point, nobody really did anything, until the admins on stage realized that it was a horrible situation and they had to let him go to the bathroom (I get that they were late to start with... but it seems unreasonable to start a match when one of your players isn't ready because of time issues). That's when they cut away, NaNiWa left the booth (presumably to go to the bathroom). NesTea looks pretty pissed at this point (as pissed as you can imagine NesTea looking). The coach comes over to the booth and tells him he can go to the bathroom, and he's like but dude I'm already settled (I could tell because of his body language), and then finally agrees to go anyway. They both get back and they decide to restart the match. EXCEPT. NaNiWa got back before NesTea (I believe), but in any case, he quickly pulled up the replay from the match before anybody could stop him. As soon as the official on the stage realized, he went into the booth to tell him to stop, but it was too late, NaNiWa had already seen the starting position of NesTea. This went largely unnoticed." Starting position is obviously not the only thing NaNiWa is seeing in that replay. He's watching NesTeas starting build order, completely unbeknown to NesTea! Considering he doesn't have any issues pulling up the replay, who even knows what he's doing while he's "going to the bathroom?" He could easily be talking to someone who's already been watching NesTea play for the first minute+ of the game. Second: "The officials allowed NaNiWa's coach INTO THE PLAYER BOOTH with 1:47 on the clock and the game paused. The coach talked to NaNiWa for a minute or two before he left and shut the door. Then a few minutes later, gameplay resumed ... This entire time, NesTea is sitting in his booth, looking defeated. At this point, it's over half an hour since the first attempt at this game had started, and he must not be in his proper mindset." I just got back, and if this is true then Naniwa and his coach are cheaters [doh] Gonna randomly scan through the LR to see what's up | ||
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SuperStyle
United States976 Posts
edit: MLG official response: MLG_Adam United States. November 21 2011 01:00. Posts 132 PM Profile Quote # After extensive investigation, review of the video files and 2011 Pro Circuit rules, we have determined that the replay had no impact on the tournament flow or the match results. Build orders are displayed at the end of a match on the stats screen. So the replay that was viewed would have revealed nothing the match stats page would not have revealed otherwise. Additionally, to clarify, the Complexity manager was allowed in the booth, accompanied by MLG staff, after the match had started in order to keep the game in motion after a discrepancy with his player that would have impacted the continuation of the game. Moving forward, we will look at rules outlawing any replay views on a tournament PC | ||
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Kentredenite
United States220 Posts
If anything it was Naniwa who should feel cheated if MLG staff told him the wrong starting positions... | ||
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TheOGBlitzKrieg
United States346 Posts
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ParasitJonte
Sweden1768 Posts
On November 21 2011 00:18 figq wrote: Not that I care much, but technically that doesn't really improve the situation by a lot. He showed a lot of disrespect for a 3-times GSL champion, by many other things he said about him in this interview, and even using the word "idiotic" to describe a poor decision wouldn't normally be suitable when you talk about someone who is as respected as Nestea. But the really good thing is that Naniwa apologized, and props for that. Uhm, probably depends on culture but I wouldn't have any problem calling out poor decisions no matter who's done them. Really funny how some people in this thread tread seem to think Nestea is some deity to be revered. They're just people playing games. | ||
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