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Thread unlocked. Please THINK before you post, and rest assured that ANY infringement of the rules will be dealt with severely.
NO caster bashing
NO balance whine
NO player bashing
NO bad manner of any sort
Thanks!
- riptide |
On November 20 2011 21:55 eot wrote:
Don't you automatically see the build order if you regame?
After a game you always see the opponent's build order in the menu that pops up That's true, but if that was all Naniwa needed to know - he wouldn't have watched the replay.
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I'm sorry if this is already explained in the previous 600+ pages, but how could Naniwa check for hatch first? The game didn't restart, so how was he able to check for build order at the score screen or in a replay? And I didn't know players were allowed to pause the game themselves. Shouldn't they ask for pp?
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On November 20 2011 22:26 oFFoy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 22:22 Hubris wrote:
What's more sad than the people crying over race/players are the people stating that losing respect for naniwa is inherently race/fan boy related. This is simply not the case. Nestea played bad, sure. Is it about balance? No. Is it about him beating favorites? I was happy for him and argued his case for beating them, so no.
What it is, is poor sportsmanship. He called another respectful player an idiot after winning via all in style (arrogance is never liked) on an action that for intents and purposes naniwa was behind on. Nestea lost that match due to his follow up, Naniwa overreacted to the mind games, but had a decent follow up. Still no reason to call him or his style idotic. Seems very arrogant, especially after losing the second game there, which made it clear it was nestea's foul on army placement and read of Naniwa's build that cost him that game. Not overall skill. Then, the guy has the nerve to pause an international tourny with thousands watching because he didn't understand the map rules. Im sorry, this is unprofessional as well. If you're a high tier player, you should know those rules, as someone from MLG already pointed out. After that, he was accused of watching the reply to see if he went hatch first, which is huge for cannon rush tactics. He also BMed the tourny he was in, while BMing the audience by freezing the match ups so he could cannon rush. Then, after all his BM and arrogance, he has the nerve to thumbs down Nestea as if he still has any credibility from the matches. I normally cheer for foreigners, but today I think we've all seen why Nestea/MVP are code S level and why Naniwa is code b/a. There was no need for any of that from Naniwa. The fact it all happened back to back takes away from his results this tourny, his clan, and from his respect as a player from a large portion of the community. well he apologised:
lol I knew it had to do with bad vocabulary second language etc... tried to explain it but meh
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On November 20 2011 22:27 TaKemE wrote:
From what I can get out of it Nestea also got to talk to one from his team in that break.
In the Game Naniwa went into main to scout, then went back to check for expo after seing no pool and then used cannons thats standard play and a reson why many zerg dont go hatch first against toss, but sure when nestea loses there is always something wrong and its never his own play.
Indeed, nestea fanboys are going wild in this thread.
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On November 20 2011 22:29 figq wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 21:55 eot wrote:
Don't you automatically see the build order if you regame?
After a game you always see the opponent's build order in the menu that pops up That's true, but if that was all Naniwa needed to know - he wouldn't have watched the replay.
The game wasent restarted check vod.
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On November 20 2011 22:26 oFFoy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 22:22 Hubris wrote:
What's more sad than the people crying over race/players are the people stating that losing respect for naniwa is inherently race/fan boy related. This is simply not the case. Nestea played bad, sure. Is it about balance? No. Is it about him beating favorites? I was happy for him and argued his case for beating them, so no.
What it is, is poor sportsmanship. He called another respectful player an idiot after winning via all in style (arrogance is never liked) on an action that for intents and purposes naniwa was behind on. Nestea lost that match due to his follow up, Naniwa overreacted to the mind games, but had a decent follow up. Still no reason to call him or his style idotic. Seems very arrogant, especially after losing the second game there, which made it clear it was nestea's foul on army placement and read of Naniwa's build that cost him that game. Not overall skill. Then, the guy has the nerve to pause an international tourny with thousands watching because he didn't understand the map rules. Im sorry, this is unprofessional as well. If you're a high tier player, you should know those rules, as someone from MLG already pointed out. After that, he was accused of watching the reply to see if he went hatch first, which is huge for cannon rush tactics. He also BMed the tourny he was in, while BMing the audience by freezing the match ups so he could cannon rush. Then, after all his BM and arrogance, he has the nerve to thumbs down Nestea as if he still has any credibility from the matches. I normally cheer for foreigners, but today I think we've all seen why Nestea/MVP are code S level and why Naniwa is code b/a. There was no need for any of that from Naniwa. The fact it all happened back to back takes away from his results this tourny, his clan, and from his respect as a player from a large portion of the community. well he apologised: https://twitter.com/#!/CoLNaniwa/status/138116562086404096
that's a step in the right direction. he's probably not a cheat in the strictest sense, and he was the better player that day, but his actions were uncalled for. he probably did have a minute advantage through the replay, although the game would have probably played out in the same fashion.
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On November 20 2011 22:31 Flyingdutchman wrote:
I'm sorry if this is already explained in the previous 600+ pages, but how could Naniwa check for hatch first? The game didn't restart, so how was he able to check for build order at the score screen or in a replay? And I didn't know players were allowed to pause the game themselves. Shouldn't they ask for pp? It was not broadcast, but during ads between game 2 and 3, there was a failed attempt to start game 3, which was then stopped (because there were still ads in progress). And during the break that followed, Naniwa watched the replay from that failed game. That all happens before the whole pausing story that we've seen on the stream.
On November 20 2011 22:33 TaKemE wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 22:29 figq wrote:On November 20 2011 21:55 eot wrote:
Don't you automatically see the build order if you regame?
After a game you always see the opponent's build order in the menu that pops up That's true, but if that was all Naniwa needed to know - he wouldn't have watched the replay. The game wasent restarted check vod. It's not in the VOD, it happens during ads. Check the thread.
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TL's MLG thread is the male version of The View, seriously some of you on here.
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On November 20 2011 22:18 Xdivine wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 21:14 TigerKarl wrote:Instead of creating hatred in the community, please discuss my quality find of the Bear Captain with Pirate Hat in the Her0 vs. Ret game: ![[image loading]](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/92774/Bear%20Captain%20with%20Piratehat%20Smiley%20Face%20Her0%20vs.%20Ret.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/3050/okpuq5th.th.png) ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Sup Son!
this deserves more attention than all the e drama put together in the last ~50 pages or so!
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On November 20 2011 22:34 figq wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 22:31 Flyingdutchman wrote:
I'm sorry if this is already explained in the previous 600+ pages, but how could Naniwa check for hatch first? The game didn't restart, so how was he able to check for build order at the score screen or in a replay? And I didn't know players were allowed to pause the game themselves. Shouldn't they ask for pp? It was not broadcast, but during ads between game 2 and 3, there was a failed attempt to start game 3, which was then stopped (because there were still ads in progress). And during the break that followed, Naniwa watched the replay from that failed game. That all happens before the whole pausing story that we've seen on the stream. Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 22:33 TaKemE wrote:On November 20 2011 22:29 figq wrote:On November 20 2011 21:55 eot wrote:
Don't you automatically see the build order if you regame?
After a game you always see the opponent's build order in the menu that pops up That's true, but if that was all Naniwa needed to know - he wouldn't have watched the replay. The game wasent restarted check vod. It's not in the VOD, it happens during ads. Check the thread.
Ok but any idea how long they played in the first game before it was restarted? The 1min 47sec alot talk about is 2. game that wasent restarted.
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On November 20 2011 22:29 SeriouR wrote:
How were the games beetwen Huk and Hero? too abd hero lost, such a good run:O
+ Show Spoiler +I'm really surprised Hero didn't try to play a standard game for 2 games in a row. Double gas steal in the first and proxy 2 gate in the second game. Maybe he is hoping to take advantage of HuK because if you watch HuK's stream, he actually doesn't scout or scouts very very late so maybe Hero thought he can count on that? I mean, it would be pretty daring to try to cheese someone who has such good control. Hero's micro is really good too, I'm sure he would have at least went toe to toe with HuK even in a twilight robo play.
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On November 20 2011 22:12 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 22:00 zeru wrote:On November 20 2011 21:54 Defacer wrote:On November 20 2011 21:43 SuperStyle wrote:On November 20 2011 21:34 Defacer wrote:On November 20 2011 21:06 SuperStyle wrote:Look at all these zerg fanbois qqing because Nani stomped Nestea twice in 2 days  Man up, dont be an Idra. Oh yeah, that's what happened. Anyone who thinks Naniwa's last game was legit is kidding themselves. What a farce. The cannon rush had almost no effect on that game, what made Naniwa win was that drop play that killed the lair while Nestea's army was doing nothing in the middle of the map and the mistake by Nestea for trying a base trade instead of defending. Nestea was at a point 30-40 supplies ahead and 1 base ahead, what made him lose was good tactics by Naniwa and poor decision making by him. Also crowd was cheering for Nani and not booing, so stop with the stupid zerg favoritism already, every time a zerg loses it either cheating or Terran/Protoss are OP. I mean if you wanna qq how zerg is shit go to Idras fanclub and do it there, not 1 mod dares to do anything about that thread anyway. I'm sorry, but a guy that pouts his way into getting a bathroom break, than watching replays of his opponents opening, than complaining how his opponent didn't spawn where he expected him too when they restart ... how is that a legitimate win? Frankly, if IdrA did the same thing, people would be burning him at the stake. Naniwa is certainly a good player, but I think a lot of people have a legitimate beef with his conduct during that last game. Imagine if it was the last 24 seconds of a basketball game; play starts, and after six seconds pass the team with the ball insisted on restarting the shot clock because one of their players wants to pee really, really bad. And then complains that the opposing team isn't running the exact same defense when they start playing again. Ridiculous. I'll shut up about it now, I'll just wait until people closer to the situation chime in on SOTG or Live on Three etc. 1. awful analogy. 2. you can see the build order in the score screen even 3. all accusations are based on heresay 4. even if he did watch the replay there's no rule against it. if anything it's pretty stupid that mlg didnt let naniwa go to the bathroom before the game started when he first asked for it 1. Analogy is fine. If the opening and spawn positions didn't matter than Naniwa wouldn't have insisted on restarting the game, would he? 2. just because Blizzard allows you to see the build order on the score screen doesn't mean you should be able to. Again, spawn locations and timings are critical. 3. there's enough accounts and circumstantial evidence to confirm this. 4. Just because there isn't 'a rule' doesn't mean I should give credit where credit isn't due. Is Naniwa a good player? Yes. Does this game prove he's a better player than Nestea? Not really. Did Naniwa manipulate the referees to allow him to execute his preferred strategy. Arguably, yes. This happens a lot of sports. Jordon, Lebron, Shaq -- all notorious whiners that got away with stretching the rules. It doesn't mean they weren't great players, but I don't see why I have acknowledge how Naniwa won 'fair and square' when he obviously didn't.
The analogy is horrible. It has nothing to do with him wanting to pee nor was that the reason for the restart. The reastart was because the admin told him that the map only had cross spawns. Something you would have known if you had acutually taken yourself the time to read the last 3 pages. Naniwa was put a disadvantage due to the referee giving him false information. If anyone is to blame here its mlg.
As for the replay part. If naniwa should be held accountable for that I think nestea should be as well for watching the score screen. Its almost the same thing.
As for Nainwa manipulating the referee... well now youre making shit up again.
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On November 20 2011 22:26 oFFoy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 22:22 Hubris wrote:
What's more sad than the people crying over race/players are the people stating that losing respect for naniwa is inherently race/fan boy related. This is simply not the case. Nestea played bad, sure. Is it about balance? No. Is it about him beating favorites? I was happy for him and argued his case for beating them, so no.
What it is, is poor sportsmanship. He called another respectful player an idiot after winning via all in style (arrogance is never liked) on an action that for intents and purposes naniwa was behind on. Nestea lost that match due to his follow up, Naniwa overreacted to the mind games, but had a decent follow up. Still no reason to call him or his style idotic. Seems very arrogant, especially after losing the second game there, which made it clear it was nestea's foul on army placement and read of Naniwa's build that cost him that game. Not overall skill. Then, the guy has the nerve to pause an international tourny with thousands watching because he didn't understand the map rules. Im sorry, this is unprofessional as well. If you're a high tier player, you should know those rules, as someone from MLG already pointed out. After that, he was accused of watching the reply to see if he went hatch first, which is huge for cannon rush tactics. He also BMed the tourny he was in, while BMing the audience by freezing the match ups so he could cannon rush. Then, after all his BM and arrogance, he has the nerve to thumbs down Nestea as if he still has any credibility from the matches. I normally cheer for foreigners, but today I think we've all seen why Nestea/MVP are code S level and why Naniwa is code b/a. There was no need for any of that from Naniwa. The fact it all happened back to back takes away from his results this tourny, his clan, and from his respect as a player from a large portion of the community. well he apologised: https://twitter.com/#!/CoLNaniwa/status/138116562086404096
I'm glad he's trying to rectify his actions, but I think it seems a little late. That second Nestea series was ruined for me (apparently many other as well) by his actions, and his words/ethics at MLG regarding the bm and replay took away all the respect I had for a very determined foreigner winning against two top tier players. I think it's too little, too late. Especially when I feel like this is more his clan putting him in line than his actual feelings on the subject. It wasn't until after they got on him that he changed his bm or attempted to make up for the antics he pulled. He did a great job winning the invitational Friday, but I don't think I respect him as a SC2 player anymore after his actions regarding those games or Saturday's events. If it was just one BM, I and many would not be mentioning our complaints, but the fact remains these bm actions took place back to back and they only got worse. He's a bm arrogant player, and my best goes out to any player he faces (regardless of their race) as my favorite due to his unsportsman like behavior.
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Shit shit shit I could not watch any MLG this WE... Seems like I missed some fucking great matches  (((((
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On November 20 2011 22:34 figq wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 22:31 Flyingdutchman wrote:
I'm sorry if this is already explained in the previous 600+ pages, but how could Naniwa check for hatch first? The game didn't restart, so how was he able to check for build order at the score screen or in a replay? And I didn't know players were allowed to pause the game themselves. Shouldn't they ask for pp? It was not broadcast, but during ads between game 2 and 3, there was a failed attempt to start game 3, which was then stopped (because there were still ads in progress). And during the break that followed, Naniwa watched the replay from that failed game. That all happens before the whole pausing story that we've seen on the stream. Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 22:33 TaKemE wrote:On November 20 2011 22:29 figq wrote:On November 20 2011 21:55 eot wrote:
Don't you automatically see the build order if you regame?
After a game you always see the opponent's build order in the menu that pops up That's true, but if that was all Naniwa needed to know - he wouldn't have watched the replay. The game wasent restarted check vod. It's not in the VOD, it happens during ads. Check the thread.
ah so the claims are not about checking build orders after he paused the game, ok that makes more sense
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On November 20 2011 22:37 TaKemE wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 22:34 figq wrote:On November 20 2011 22:31 Flyingdutchman wrote:
I'm sorry if this is already explained in the previous 600+ pages, but how could Naniwa check for hatch first? The game didn't restart, so how was he able to check for build order at the score screen or in a replay? And I didn't know players were allowed to pause the game themselves. Shouldn't they ask for pp? It was not broadcast, but during ads between game 2 and 3, there was a failed attempt to start game 3, which was then stopped (because there were still ads in progress). And during the break that followed, Naniwa watched the replay from that failed game. That all happens before the whole pausing story that we've seen on the stream. On November 20 2011 22:33 TaKemE wrote:On November 20 2011 22:29 figq wrote:On November 20 2011 21:55 eot wrote:
Don't you automatically see the build order if you regame?
After a game you always see the opponent's build order in the menu that pops up That's true, but if that was all Naniwa needed to know - he wouldn't have watched the replay. The game wasent restarted check vod. It's not in the VOD, it happens during ads. Check the thread. Ok but any idea how long they played in the first game before it was restarted? The 1min 47sec alot talk about is 2. game that wasent restarted. Here's the original source:
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/mimu3/naniwas_thoughts_on_mlg/c318uab
According to it - over a minute.
Anyway, my personal take on the whole case is+ Show Spoiler + that it's not that important. It's good to know that Naniwa is improving, and can beat MVP and Nestea on stage, but he more or less knew that already, because he can beat them (and any of the top Koreans) on the ladder. But that still doesn't mean much, even if he wins this MLG, and has an impressive record vs MVP and Nestea. They are still 3-time GSL champions, and Naniwa still has a lot of work to do, and he knows it even better than us. It's a long way to show consistency and to prove ability to win after his styles become very well known and analyzed, like theirs.
So, whether or not game 3 vs Nestea is entirely legit doesn't change the big picture.
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On November 20 2011 22:18 Xdivine wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 21:14 TigerKarl wrote:Instead of creating hatred in the community, please discuss my quality find of the Bear Captain with Pirate Hat in the Her0 vs. Ret game: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Sup Son!
I'm sad I did not find the Bear Captain with Pirate Hat.
Edit : HO I FIND IT!
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On November 20 2011 22:41 Hubris wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 22:26 oFFoy wrote:On November 20 2011 22:22 Hubris wrote:
What's more sad than the people crying over race/players are the people stating that losing respect for naniwa is inherently race/fan boy related. This is simply not the case. Nestea played bad, sure. Is it about balance? No. Is it about him beating favorites? I was happy for him and argued his case for beating them, so no.
What it is, is poor sportsmanship. He called another respectful player an idiot after winning via all in style (arrogance is never liked) on an action that for intents and purposes naniwa was behind on. Nestea lost that match due to his follow up, Naniwa overreacted to the mind games, but had a decent follow up. Still no reason to call him or his style idotic. Seems very arrogant, especially after losing the second game there, which made it clear it was nestea's foul on army placement and read of Naniwa's build that cost him that game. Not overall skill. Then, the guy has the nerve to pause an international tourny with thousands watching because he didn't understand the map rules. Im sorry, this is unprofessional as well. If you're a high tier player, you should know those rules, as someone from MLG already pointed out. After that, he was accused of watching the reply to see if he went hatch first, which is huge for cannon rush tactics. He also BMed the tourny he was in, while BMing the audience by freezing the match ups so he could cannon rush. Then, after all his BM and arrogance, he has the nerve to thumbs down Nestea as if he still has any credibility from the matches. I normally cheer for foreigners, but today I think we've all seen why Nestea/MVP are code S level and why Naniwa is code b/a. There was no need for any of that from Naniwa. The fact it all happened back to back takes away from his results this tourny, his clan, and from his respect as a player from a large portion of the community. well he apologised: https://twitter.com/#!/CoLNaniwa/status/138116562086404096 I'm glad he's trying to rectify his actions, but I think it seems a little late. That second Nestea series was ruined for me (apparently many other as well) by his actions, and his words/ethics at MLG regarding the bm and replay took away all the respect I had for a very determined foreigner winning against two top tier players. I think it's too little, too late. Especially when I feel like this is more his clan putting him in line than his actual feelings on the subject. It wasn't until after they got on him that he changed his bm or attempted to make up for the antics he pulled. He did a great job winning the invitational Friday, but I don't think I respect him as a SC2 player anymore after his actions regarding those games or Saturday's events. If it was just one BM, I and many would not be mentioning our complaints, but the fact remains these bm actions took place back to back and they only got worse. He's a bm arrogant player, and my best goes out to any player he faces (regardless of their race) as my favorite due to his unsportsman like behavior. Perhaps he was so busy playing a Starcraft 2 tournament that he wasn't able to get caught up on all the buzz until much later?
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wrf! Just finished the red stream.
How come nobody told about the on stage wedding proposal?
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On November 20 2011 22:53 Deckkie wrote:
wrf! Just finished the red stream.
How come nobody told about the on stage wedding proposal?
"CUZ NANI CALLED NESTEA AN IDIOT!" Things getting blown out of proportion as usual. Huk and nani got a real shot to win this one!
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EPT![[image loading]](http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/828/okpuq5th.png/)
