It's just the weirdest feeling that NASL seems to be missing that magic other tournaments like MLG and IPL have. Even the IPL qualifiers seemed more exciting. Can't quite place it, probably the caster chemistry is lacking.
NASL needs to start broadcasting the games live. Watching replays that are 2-4 weeks old is not entertaining at all. Glad that Orb is casting though, he's great!
On October 17 2011 11:09 Newbistic wrote: It's just the weirdest feeling that NASL seems to be missing that magic other tournaments like MLG and IPL have. Even the IPL qualifiers seemed more exciting. Can't quite place it, probably the caster chemistry is lacking.
It's hard to care about games that were played weeks ago. Most people will just tune in during the LAN finals only.
Just a suggestion.. when gretorp does these weekly updates or whenever he makes an announcement, have him read off of a script. otherwise he just mixes up his words and sentences too much.
nasl is becoming less and less relevant. I feel like this is a result of trying to buy out the scene instead of trying to legitimately become the best. I think they probably realized this in the end of season 1 (that the big 100k prize pool wouldn't make them the best) and have been trying to correct it since, but at this point the lackluster player pool compared to other events along with a drawn out season has made it rather obsolete. I'm still looking forward to the finals but...
On October 17 2011 12:29 Hier wrote: Dimaga 4-0 in his group so far, loving it. Really want to see him in more tournaments. He can easily hang with players like Idra, Ret, and Stephano.
More like: Idra, Ret and Stephano can easily hang with Dimaga :D
On October 17 2011 12:27 Oreo7 wrote: nasl is becoming less and less relevant. I feel like this is a result of trying to buy out the scene instead of trying to legitimately become the best. I think they probably realized this in the end of season 1 (that the big 100k prize pool wouldn't make them the best) and have been trying to correct it since, but at this point the lackluster player pool compared to other events along with a drawn out season has made it rather obsolete. I'm still looking forward to the finals but...
They tried a drawn out pre-recorded off-line GSL with no Live audience. It's no surprise people become disinterested until the Finals.
On October 17 2011 12:27 Oreo7 wrote: nasl is becoming less and less relevant. I feel like this is a result of trying to buy out the scene instead of trying to legitimately become the best. I think they probably realized this in the end of season 1 (that the big 100k prize pool wouldn't make them the best) and have been trying to correct it since, but at this point the lackluster player pool compared to other events along with a drawn out season has made it rather obsolete. I'm still looking forward to the finals but...
I'm sorry but I don't agree. I think you have it all wrong.
I think NASL, for such a long tournament, has done an excellent job of keeping people tuned in.
The thing is, this October is freakishly saturated with live events. First IPL, and then IEM/MLG.
By nature, a live LAN event will always take precedence over a online daily event, because the former is considered kind of a "one time" thing, whereas the latter is considered something you can tune into any day at your convenience.
NASL has been getting 12k/10k EU viewership most days. That's hardly "becoming irrelevant" because that's what IEM has been getting WITH a live LAN event (note: they were competing with MLG). For comparison, IPL barely ever broke 3k without live event competition.
Anyway, I love the format of the NASL. Yeah I tune into things like MLG because they're a one time thing that I don't want to miss, but I like having a "daily" tournament I can tune into also.
Besides, it's like 2 more weeks until Playoffs, and I'm sure that's going to get people's attention.
[EDIT] Also, I feel like this community is more band-wagony than they like to admit. If your enjoyment of a league is largely dependent on the viewership numbers, then I'm not sure you have your priorities right.
Perhaps NASL can install a weekly live final on Sunday and shift all divisional play one day ahead. Top ranked player from each division plus 3 wildcards (8 players) will play for, say, $500.
It's not a lot of money in the grand scheme of things, but that's still serious dough for a night's work. Since NASL games were played earlier, NASL already know the standing and can invite players for the live Sunday event before hand.
i think it's because most people dont know why the games even matter. there's no excitement to the match when it's not clear why they matter. hell, i dont even know why these games matter. it seems like loosing a series or two is no big deal.
On October 17 2011 12:27 Oreo7 wrote: nasl is becoming less and less relevant. I feel like this is a result of trying to buy out the scene instead of trying to legitimately become the best. I think they probably realized this in the end of season 1 (that the big 100k prize pool wouldn't make them the best) and have been trying to correct it since, but at this point the lackluster player pool compared to other events along with a drawn out season has made it rather obsolete. I'm still looking forward to the finals but...
I'm sorry but I don't agree. I think you have it all wrong.
I think NASL, for such a long tournament, has done an excellent job of keeping people tuned in.
The thing is, this October is freakishly saturated with live events. First IPL, and then IEM/MLG.
By nature, a live LAN event will always take precedence over a online daily event, because the former is considered kind of a "one time" thing, whereas the latter is considered something you can tune into any day at your convenience.
NASL has been getting 12k/10k EU viewership most days. That's hardly "becoming irrelevant" because that's what IEM has been getting WITH a live LAN event (note: they were competing with MLG). For comparison, IPL barely ever broke 3k without live event competition.
Anyway, I love the format of the NASL. Yeah I tune into things like MLG because they're a one time thing that I don't want to miss, but I like having a "daily" tournament I can tune into also.
Besides, it's like 2 more weeks until Playoffs, and I'm sure that's going to get people's attention.
[EDIT] Also, I feel like this community is more band-wagony than they like to admit. If your enjoyment of a league is largely dependent on the viewership numbers, then I'm not sure you have your priorities right.
According to those numbers then, the TSL must have been one of the biggest successes in SC2 tournament history. I figured as much though. o.0
I disagree and think that the format and decision to play older games is in fact the reason that the NASL isn't really getting as much (for lack of a better word) "talk" as other tournaments. Viewer numbers are one thing, but I think the real measure of success for tournaments is how many people talk about them even after the event has occurred. Not a lot of talk has been going on in pretty much most of the live threads this season as opposed to the other tournaments. Main reason is just the over saturation of games which (to the average guy just tuning in) dont SEEM to have importance since losing a set doesn't mean you're knocked out immediately but rather that I dont get the points I need to get any higher. In situations where someone is already guaranteed a spot in the finals, the players have no incentive to try hard which is reflected in the games.
On October 17 2011 11:09 cyclone25 wrote: NASL needs to start broadcasting the games live. Watching replays that are 2-4 weeks old is not entertaining at all. Glad that Orb is casting though, he's great!
Have things changed since last season? In season one, they were 2 days old...
The lack of traffic in the various NASL threads and low-ish viewer numbers show this season isn't a priority for SC2 fans. I just can't get excited over watching weeks old replays at prime time (8-9pm).
IMO the format should be changed so seasons aren't as long; having 32 players instead of 50 would be ideal, with them split into groups similar to GSL or MLG. Right now the season has run through multiple IEMs, GSL, IPL3, and now MLG. It's impossible for NASL to compete for anyone's attention while those events are going on.
In terms of esports, so far SC2 is tournament dominated. A real sports like long season doesn't work because it generates a host of games few people want to watch. This isn't the NFL, where even a bad matchup/game (like tonight's Minnesota v Chicago game) gets huge ratings and attention. People want to see their favorite players duking it out with immediate money, respect, and prizes on the line.
On October 17 2011 15:45 PhoenixDark wrote: The lack of traffic in the various NASL threads and low-ish viewer numbers show this season isn't a priority for SC2 fans. I just can't get excited over watching weeks old replays at prime time (8-9pm).
IMO the format should be changed so seasons aren't as long; having 32 players instead of 50 would be ideal, with them split into groups similar to GSL or MLG. Right now the season has run through multiple IEMs, GSL, IPL3, and now MLG. It's impossible for NASL to compete for anyone's attention while those events are going on.
In terms of esports, so far SC2 is tournament dominated. A real sports like long season doesn't work because it generates a host of games few people want to watch. This isn't the NFL, where even a bad matchup/game (like tonight's Minnesota v Chicago game) gets huge ratings and attention. People want to see their favorite players duking it out with immediate money, respect, and prizes on the line.
You're missing the whole point. When the superbowl is on, nobody watches the NBA game that's on at the same time except for die-hard NBA fans. When MLG happens, nobody is watching the NASL games except for the die hard fans. We're aware of this.
The point is not to "beat" other tournaments in terms of viewership. If you want to compare a random daily NASL match viewer count to MLG's of course MLG wins that battle.
On October 17 2011 15:45 PhoenixDark wrote: The lack of traffic in the various NASL threads and low-ish viewer numbers show this season isn't a priority for SC2 fans. I just can't get excited over watching weeks old replays at prime time (8-9pm).
IMO the format should be changed so seasons aren't as long; having 32 players instead of 50 would be ideal, with them split into groups similar to GSL or MLG. Right now the season has run through multiple IEMs, GSL, IPL3, and now MLG. It's impossible for NASL to compete for anyone's attention while those events are going on.
In terms of esports, so far SC2 is tournament dominated. A real sports like long season doesn't work because it generates a host of games few people want to watch. This isn't the NFL, where even a bad matchup/game (like tonight's Minnesota v Chicago game) gets huge ratings and attention. People want to see their favorite players duking it out with immediate money, respect, and prizes on the line.
I feel like this is a problem on the side of how we see SC2 right now. Part of the magic of Brood War was that OSLs and MSLs are long, drawn-out seasons, with a story and a build-up to that final payoff. That way, instead of just having a tourney a month to go to, it would have a lot more significance to win this built-up spectacle.
I don't know, I'm just not a big fan of instant gratification. Sure, shortening the season a bit and cutting players is probably a good idea, but I don't think it would be good for NASL to shorten it to GSL-style or something like that. It just wouldn't have that same kind of magic as a nice build-up would.
I don't think it's the format that is hurting them that much.
Here's my perspective on why I rarely watch NASL nowadays.
Every Fri/Sat/Sun there is a major LAN on. I have something else to watch. There's no chance in hell I'm watching NASL when IPL3/IEM/MLG/Blizzcon/ESWC/whatever is on. Not random regular season games.
What about wed/thurs? Busy watching GSL VODs or some of my favourite TV shows. At some point you get too much starcraft. I'm at that point. And I simply can't put time into watching matches that don't really result in anyone being eliminated.
Then again, I'm sure NASL realizes they aren't going to pull in 50k viewers during their regular season. Realistically, 20k+ is extremely good. Especially since the finals will definitely pull in 50k. Finals last year were a catastrophe and still got solid numbers. This season shouldn't be any different (except for the catastrophe part.. i hope).
Btw, their numbers are basically higher than IPL3s qualifiers (which is essentially comparable to the NASL regular season). So no they aren't irrelevant.
I used to be a subscriber last season but didn't decide to renew my subscription because it was not announced who would be casting this season. Sometimes I tune in live but end up switching it off because for a non paying member NASL isn't a very good tournament to watch: - Your stream quality is capped where for example IPL doesn't cap you - The delay between playing and broadcasting seems to have increased a lot which makes the games that you watch very dated - The casting isn't top-notch. No offense meant but Gretorp/TheGunRun is no Day9/DJWheat.
On top of that the amount of other tournaments that are played live is currently very high. I honestly can't remember the last weekend where there was nothing.
TLDR: There is a lot of competition, it seems demand for dated games on a low quality stream (if not paying) with casters that aren't the best of the best isn't that high.
As far as the "several weeks old games" objection, Xeris said that this season they are being more flexible in scheduling, which I'm sure has helped with the seeming walkover epidemic from last season; there have hardly been any this season.
the main thing that keeps me of watching is gretorps casting. i dont think there is anything else particulary wrong with nasl and i know it sounds harsh but i really dont enjoy it at all when gretorp is casting.
I feel like this is a problem on the side of how we see SC2 right now. Part of the magic of Brood War was that OSLs and MSLs are long, drawn-out seasons, with a story and a build-up to that final payoff. That way, instead of just having a tourney a month to go to, it would have a lot more significance to win this built-up spectacle.
I don't know, I'm just not a big fan of instant gratification. Sure, shortening the season a bit and cutting players is probably a good idea, but I don't think it would be good for NASL to shorten it to GSL-style or something like that. It just wouldn't have that same kind of magic as a nice build-up would.
Agreed, and I would love to see SC2 more like that, especially in Korea; of course, due to the nature of SC2 in Korea, they have to have a GSL so many times to keep interest at a decent level. But yea, I've love to see long seasons where there's time for new rivalries to blossom, new players to rise/fall, etc.
The problem is that NASL doesn't have any magic with its long season because so many games just aren't interesting. In terms of the GSL, there are ways NASL could do something similar while extending things a bit. Lowering the player pool to 32 players, each in a 4 man group. Half of the Round of 32 groups would play in the first week, the other half in the second; same with the Round of 16. One week for the Round of 8, one week for the Round of 4. Finals the next week. So that's seven weeks. IMO the top 4 players remaining should get invited to the playoffs, with 12 spots being fought over in an open bracket to allow anyone, be they the 38 players who didn't make it to the final 4 or completely new players (like Puma last season) to make it.
That type of format could generate a host of great matches and ensure the player base was entertaining enough for people to tune in.
On October 17 2011 16:28 compucomp wrote: As far as the "several weeks old games" objection, Xeris said that this season they are being more flexible in scheduling, which I'm sure has helped with the seeming walkover epidemic from last season; there have hardly been any this season.
A few games were played early due to LAN events in October... we always play games EARLY than their scheduled date if there are conflicts, which is why you see some games that are played a few weeks ago... for example, players that went to IPL played their games earlier. We always do this because postponing games gets dicey and might lead to delays.
Overall however, there is a minimal lag time between playing the game and broadcasting
wow puma really let hasu back into game 2..he basicly had it, and then let hasu get 5 colossi. I mean puma probably could have killed him around the time he sniped the natural, and then should have went into the main.
On October 18 2011 03:34 Redox wrote: HasuObs showing again that late game PvT is winnable for Protoss despite some claiming different. Always a treat to watch him play.
Ye, he is such an underrated Protoss. Love his strategic style of play
On October 18 2011 03:34 Redox wrote: HasuObs showing again that late game PvT is winnable for Protoss despite some claiming different. Always a treat to watch him play.
didn't see game 1, but game 2 he really let hasuobs back into that game. I mean if he pushed after he killed his natural..or basicly anytime before any colossi were out n he had like 8 vikings anyway he would have probably easily crushed hasuobs army. (ghosts + MMM vs chargelot + stalkers + storm..emp or snipe the templars and the gateway army will melt)
On October 18 2011 03:34 Redox wrote: HasuObs showing again that late game PvT is winnable for Protoss despite some claiming different. Always a treat to watch him play.
didn't see game 1, but game 2 he really let hasuobs back into that game. I mean if he pushed after he killed his natural..or basicly anytime before any colossi were out n he had like 8 vikings anyway he would have probably easily crushed hasuobs army. (ghosts + MMM vs chargelot + stalkers + storm..emp or snipe the templars and the gateway army will melt)
puma lost more then hasu won.
Not that easy to push with a bioball through a choke when there are high templars held in the back, which makes them difficult to snipe.
And Puma tried, but his ghosts were cut of by forcefields from the main army and killed. Note that these were the forcefields which Orb called terrible. :D
On October 18 2011 03:34 Redox wrote: HasuObs showing again that late game PvT is winnable for Protoss despite some claiming different. Always a treat to watch him play.
Late-game was never unwinnable for Protoss. Once you have templars out and decent control, you should be fine. Problem is more about mid- to lategame (1-1-1 and EMP).
EPT
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