• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:32
CEST 15:32
KST 22:32
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers13Maestros of the Game 2 announced72026 GSL Tour plans announced14Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail1MaNa leaves Team Liquid24
StarCraft 2
General
Maestros of the Game 2 announced Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists MaNa leaves Team Liquid 2026 GSL Tour plans announced Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 522 Flip My Base The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss Mutation # 520 Moving Fees
Brood War
General
ASL21 General Discussion Data needed BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Any progamer "explanation" videos like this one? ASL21 Strategy, Pimpest Plays Discussions
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro16 Group D [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro16 Group C [ASL21] Ro16 Group B
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game General RTS Discussion Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Sexual Health Of Gamers
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1898 users

[MLG] Global Invitational - Page 147

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 145 146 147 148 149 Next
dani`
Profile Joined January 2011
Netherlands2402 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-13 10:24:33
November 13 2011 10:09 GMT
#2921
On November 13 2011 19:04 snafoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 13 2011 17:53 Hier wrote:
Can someone explain to me why MVP vs MMA and Naniwa vs Whita-Ra were an extended series, please?

Also why isn't MLG Invitational not in either of the TLPDs?


MMA beat MVP in the Winners Bracket 2-0 and knocked him down to Losers bracket. White-Ra did the same to Naniwa.
Both MVP and Naniwa came back with revenge and managed to beat them in the extended series.

Both of the things you say are wrong

Bomber beat MVP in the Korean upper bracket.
SaSe beat Naniwa in the European upper bracket.

+ Show Spoiler [Misinformation] +

It wasn't an extended series, the player from the loser bracket simply had to win 2 Bo3s, the player from the winners bracket had to win 1.

-- edit

In the Liquipedia it says the following:
Europe: Due to NaNiwa winning the first Bo3 2-0, the series continues as an extended series Bo7 with NaNiwa up 2-0.
Korea: Due to Mvp winning the first Bo3 2-0, the series continues as an extended series Bo7 with Mvp up 2-0.

Kind of a weird construct. It means the player from the winner bracket suddenly has to win 3 or 4 games while his opponent only has to win 2 in the 'extended Bo7' if the winner bracket player lost the first Bo3. However, he can also win the entire thing by simply winning the first Bo3 2-0 or 2-1. Crazy hard punishment for losing the first Bo3.

Simply playing 1 final Bo3 if the loser bracket player wins the first one makes a lot more sense. At that point, both players have lost 1 Bo3 in the tournament, so use one final Bo3 (or Bo5/Bo7) starting at 0-0 to determine the champion.

I guess MLG is just in love with their extended series and uses them whenever they can ^_^
Hier
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
2391 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-13 10:25:20
November 13 2011 10:09 GMT
#2922
On November 13 2011 19:04 snafoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 13 2011 17:53 Hier wrote:
Can someone explain to me why MVP vs MMA and Naniwa vs Whita-Ra were an extended series, please?

Also why isn't MLG Invitational not in either of the TLPDs?


MMA beat MVP in the Winners Bracket 2-0 and knocked him down to Losers bracket. White-Ra did the same to Naniwa.
Both MVP and Naniwa came back with revenge and managed to beat them in the extended series.

I don't really see anything that supports that. Bomber knocked MVP down to losers bracket. SaSa did the same to Naniwa. Am I looking at something completely different?

+ Show Spoiler [response from dani'] +

On November 13 2011 19:09 dani` wrote:
It wasn't an extended series, the player from the loser bracket simply had to win 2 BO3s, the player from the winners bracket had to win 1.

Ah, thanks!
"But on a more serious note..." -everyone on this forum at some point.
Hier
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
2391 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-13 10:42:25
November 13 2011 10:37 GMT
#2923
On November 13 2011 19:09 dani` wrote:
In the Liquipedia it says the following:
Europe: Due to NaNiwa winning the first Bo3 2-0, the series continues as an extended series Bo7 with NaNiwa up 2-0.
Korea: Due to Mvp winning the first Bo3 2-0, the series continues as an extended series Bo7 with Mvp up 2-0.

Kind of a weird construct. It means the player from the winner bracket suddenly has to win 3 or 4 games while his opponent only has to win 2 in the 'extended Bo7' if the winner bracket player lost the first Bo3. However, he can also win the entire thing by simply winning the first Bo3 2-0 or 2-1. Crazy hard punishment for losing the first Bo3.

Simply playing 1 final Bo3 if the loser bracket player wins the first one makes a lot more sense. At that point, both players have lost 1 Bo3 in the tournament, so use one final Bo3 (or Bo5/Bo7) starting at 0-0 to determine the champion.

I guess MLG is just in love with their extended series and uses them whenever they can ^_^

Ok

-Of the 4 finalists, MVP, MMA, and White-Ra went 2-0 in their first Bo3.
-Naniwa, even though went to losers' bracket in the first round started the series against White-Ra 2-0 in his favor.
-MVP went to losers' bracket in the second round, and ended up getting a 2-0 head start over MMA.
-None of the 2 pairs of finalists met each other in the tourney before.
-Both Naniwa and MVP defeated the player that knocked them down to losers' bracket to begin with (SaSe and Bomber, respectively) before moving on to the finals.
-Both SaSe and Bomber lost to both finalists.

SOMEONE messed up somewhere.

(double post: my previous post was meant to squeeze in before dani')

EDIT:
Simply playing 1 final Bo3 if the loser bracket player wins the first one makes a lot more sense. At that point, both players have lost 1 Bo3 in the tournament, so use one final Bo3 (or Bo5/Bo7) starting at 0-0 to determine the champion.

That would make sense; the same format used at Blizzcon. But it wasn't used in this case.
"But on a more serious note..." -everyone on this forum at some point.
dani`
Profile Joined January 2011
Netherlands2402 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-13 10:44:41
November 13 2011 10:42 GMT
#2924
On November 13 2011 19:37 Hier wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 13 2011 19:09 dani` wrote:
In the Liquipedia it says the following:
Europe: Due to NaNiwa winning the first Bo3 2-0, the series continues as an extended series Bo7 with NaNiwa up 2-0.
Korea: Due to Mvp winning the first Bo3 2-0, the series continues as an extended series Bo7 with Mvp up 2-0.

Kind of a weird construct. It means the player from the winner bracket suddenly has to win 3 or 4 games while his opponent only has to win 2 in the 'extended Bo7' if the winner bracket player lost the first Bo3. However, he can also win the entire thing by simply winning the first Bo3 2-0 or 2-1. Crazy hard punishment for losing the first Bo3.

Simply playing 1 final Bo3 if the loser bracket player wins the first one makes a lot more sense. At that point, both players have lost 1 Bo3 in the tournament, so use one final Bo3 (or Bo5/Bo7) starting at 0-0 to determine the champion.

I guess MLG is just in love with their extended series and uses them whenever they can ^_^

Ok

-Of the 4 finalists, MMA, White-Ra, and MMA went 2-0 in their first Bo3.
-Naniwa, even though went to losers' bracket in the first round started the series against White-Ra 2-0 in his favor.
-MVP went to losers' bracket in the second round, and ended up getting a 2-0 head start over MMA.
-None of the 2 pairs of finalists met each other in the tourney before.
-Both Naniwa and MVP defeated the player that knocked them down to losers' bracket to begin with (SaSe and Bomber, respectively) before moving on to the finals.
-Both SaSe and Bomber lost to both finalists.

SOMEONE messed up somewhere.

(double post: my previous post was meant to squeeze in before dani')

The finals never started as an extended series Bo7. It started as Bo3 with 2 possible follow ups:

1) Player who came from Winner Bracket (MMA, White-Ra) wins (2-0 or 2-1) => They win the tournament
2) Player who came from Loser Bracket wins (2-0 or 2-1) => Series continues as Bo7, starting with the score from the Bo3 (so Naniwa up 2-0, MVP up 2-0 because they both won 2-0).

"First Bo3" refers to the initial Bo3 of the final. I agree the term 'first' is weird because there will never be a second one; the tournament will be over OR there will be this extended series Bo7.
Hier
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
2391 Posts
November 13 2011 10:44 GMT
#2925
On November 13 2011 19:42 dani` wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 13 2011 19:37 Hier wrote:
On November 13 2011 19:09 dani` wrote:
In the Liquipedia it says the following:
Europe: Due to NaNiwa winning the first Bo3 2-0, the series continues as an extended series Bo7 with NaNiwa up 2-0.
Korea: Due to Mvp winning the first Bo3 2-0, the series continues as an extended series Bo7 with Mvp up 2-0.

Kind of a weird construct. It means the player from the winner bracket suddenly has to win 3 or 4 games while his opponent only has to win 2 in the 'extended Bo7' if the winner bracket player lost the first Bo3. However, he can also win the entire thing by simply winning the first Bo3 2-0 or 2-1. Crazy hard punishment for losing the first Bo3.

Simply playing 1 final Bo3 if the loser bracket player wins the first one makes a lot more sense. At that point, both players have lost 1 Bo3 in the tournament, so use one final Bo3 (or Bo5/Bo7) starting at 0-0 to determine the champion.

I guess MLG is just in love with their extended series and uses them whenever they can ^_^

Ok

-Of the 4 finalists, MMA, White-Ra, and MMA went 2-0 in their first Bo3.
-Naniwa, even though went to losers' bracket in the first round started the series against White-Ra 2-0 in his favor.
-MVP went to losers' bracket in the second round, and ended up getting a 2-0 head start over MMA.
-None of the 2 pairs of finalists met each other in the tourney before.
-Both Naniwa and MVP defeated the player that knocked them down to losers' bracket to begin with (SaSe and Bomber, respectively) before moving on to the finals.
-Both SaSe and Bomber lost to both finalists.

SOMEONE messed up somewhere.

(double post: my previous post was meant to squeeze in before dani')

The finals never started as an extended series Bo7. It started as Bo3 with 2 possible follow ups:

1) Player who came from Winner Bracket (MMA, White-Ra) wins (2-0 or 2-1) => They win the tournament
2) Player who came from Loser Bracket wins (2-0 or 2-1) => Series continues as Bo7, starting with the score from the Bo3 (so Naniwa up 2-0, MVP up 2-0 because they both won 2-0).

Fine!
I got it.
"But on a more serious note..." -everyone on this forum at some point.
Carny
Profile Joined April 2009
Croatia284 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-13 10:47:37
November 13 2011 10:47 GMT
#2926
While MLG always had great tournaments in the past their rules always sucked ass and that's exactly the reason why we didn't have any exciting finals yet. And this Global Invitational Finals rule is ridiculous. Normally if the guy coming from the winner bracket loses the 1st Bo3 he and the contender from the LB should be on equal footing, but with this system it is really hard to come back if you lose the first series because of that gay ass extended series. That doesn't make any sense. How can the guy from the Loser Bracket have a lead before they go into the deciding match.
Shutting from the Sky
Coolhwip
Profile Joined March 2011
Sweden1381 Posts
November 13 2011 17:07 GMT
#2927
Where can I find vods? Or do I just have to wait for them to come up on the site?
crack
red4ce
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States7313 Posts
November 13 2011 17:11 GMT
#2928
Congrats to Naniwa. He finally won something after going to Korea. Now he just needs to go kick some ass in Providence.
Choboo
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Sweden2088 Posts
November 13 2011 17:25 GMT
#2929
Where are dem VODs? TTTTTT
SaSe fan club manager
sjschmidt93
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2518 Posts
November 13 2011 22:54 GMT
#2930
Tons of VODs are still missing. That or I'm just crazy.
My grandpa could've proxied better, and not only does he have arthritis, he's also dead. -Sean "Day[9]" Plott
Trigger1101
Profile Joined April 2011
Sweden80 Posts
November 14 2011 21:46 GMT
#2931
Still no vods up wtf !?!?!?
TheDougler
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada8307 Posts
November 14 2011 22:11 GMT
#2932
On November 13 2011 19:07 feanor1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 12 2011 00:24 Shellshock1122 wrote:
On November 12 2011 00:18 spacenegroes wrote:
There are no dates or times or a schedule for the finals in the OP.

How am I supposed to know when to tune in?

They are taking place the Friday of MLG Providence. I believe that is Nov 18

Worth pointing out or at least being more clear. The finals of the global invitational are pretty much a kickoff tournament for the the whole MLG. They will be played live from Providence, RI.


Really?!

THAT'S AWESOME!
I root for Euro Zergs, NA Protoss* and Korean Terrans. (Any North American who has beat a Korean Pro as Protoss counts as NA Toss)
StarVe
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany13591 Posts
November 14 2011 22:22 GMT
#2933
On November 15 2011 07:11 TheDougler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 13 2011 19:07 feanor1 wrote:
On November 12 2011 00:24 Shellshock1122 wrote:
On November 12 2011 00:18 spacenegroes wrote:
There are no dates or times or a schedule for the finals in the OP.

How am I supposed to know when to tune in?

They are taking place the Friday of MLG Providence. I believe that is Nov 18

Worth pointing out or at least being more clear. The finals of the global invitational are pretty much a kickoff tournament for the the whole MLG. They will be played live from Providence, RI.


Really?!

THAT'S AWESOME!


It's supposed to make MVP and NesTea more tired, so everybody has a fair chance of making it through the Open Bracket.
ForTheDream
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Germany1780 Posts
November 15 2011 18:32 GMT
#2934
Can we expect VoDs of the Regional Brackets before Providence?
In BurNIng we trust.
Shounen
Profile Joined October 2011
Brazil20 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-18 18:26:40
November 18 2011 18:26 GMT
#2935
Europe finals alredy played? WhiteRa won? Wheres VODS?
More gg more skill
VirgilSC2
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States6151 Posts
November 18 2011 18:32 GMT
#2936
On November 13 2011 19:09 Hier wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 13 2011 19:04 snafoo wrote:
On November 13 2011 17:53 Hier wrote:
Can someone explain to me why MVP vs MMA and Naniwa vs Whita-Ra were an extended series, please?

Also why isn't MLG Invitational not in either of the TLPDs?


MMA beat MVP in the Winners Bracket 2-0 and knocked him down to Losers bracket. White-Ra did the same to Naniwa.
Both MVP and Naniwa came back with revenge and managed to beat them in the extended series.

I don't really see anything that supports that. Bomber knocked MVP down to losers bracket. SaSa did the same to Naniwa. Am I looking at something completely different?

+ Show Spoiler [response from dani'] +

On November 13 2011 19:09 dani` wrote:
It wasn't an extended series, the player from the loser bracket simply had to win 2 BO3s, the player from the winners bracket had to win 1.

Ah, thanks!

It was an extended series, because MLG doesn't have a solid idea on how Loser's Bracket works.

The player from the Loser's Bracket wins the first Bo3 there isn't a second Bo3, instead the player from the Winner's bracket is now down 0-2 or 1-2 in a Bo7. This means a player from the winner's bracket has to potentially win 5 matches to beat the player from the loser's bracket who only needs to win 4.
Clarity Gaming #1 Fan | Avid MTG Grinder | @VirgilSC2
xCenasfu
Profile Joined April 2010
Finland143 Posts
November 18 2011 18:37 GMT
#2937
When are the finals played?
VirgilSC2
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States6151 Posts
November 18 2011 18:44 GMT
#2938
On November 19 2011 03:37 xCenasfu wrote:
When are the finals played?

Today at Providence.
Clarity Gaming #1 Fan | Avid MTG Grinder | @VirgilSC2
Yonnua
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United Kingdom2331 Posts
November 18 2011 18:54 GMT
#2939
This means a player from the winner's bracket has to potentially win 5 matches to beat the player from the loser's bracket who only needs to win 4.


No, because if the player from the winner's bracket loses the initial Bo3 2-1, then the score continues in to the extended series, so they only need 3 more, or 4 overall. If they lose 2-0, they need to win 4 more games, so 4 overall, and if they win the Bo3, they only need to win 2. There's no way that they need to win 5.
LRSL 2014 Finalist! PartinG | Mvp | Bomber | Creator | NaNiwa | herO
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
November 18 2011 19:22 GMT
#2940
man good thing we have these vods to get to know how these players got to the grand finals.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Prev 1 145 146 147 148 149 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 10h 28m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Ryung 1067
Lowko416
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 68977
Calm 6673
Jaedong 3210
Sea 2516
Horang2 1603
Mini 627
Hyuk 586
Soma 407
Larva 402
Stork 366
[ Show more ]
BeSt 365
Snow 324
Light 320
ggaemo 316
Rush 314
actioN 202
hero 153
firebathero 138
Last 138
Hyun 111
Mind 99
ToSsGirL 89
Dewaltoss 84
Backho 76
Soulkey 74
Sharp 66
Killer 52
Sacsri 42
sSak 37
[sc1f]eonzerg 31
sorry 29
Movie 28
Hm[arnc] 25
soO 24
zelot 23
IntoTheRainbow 22
scan(afreeca) 21
Shinee 20
HiyA 20
yabsab 12
Rock 11
Shine 6
Terrorterran 6
Icarus 6
Dota 2
Gorgc4928
qojqva1393
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1732
byalli606
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King100
Other Games
singsing1866
B2W.Neo869
hiko660
Mlord330
DeMusliM243
XaKoH 183
KnowMe138
Trikslyr128
Liquid`VortiX69
QueenE69
Liquid`LucifroN65
RotterdaM52
NotJumperer3
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream9885
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP156
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1622
• TFBlade1535
• Nemesis603
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
10h 28m
The PondCast
20h 28m
KCM Race Survival
20h 28m
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
21h 28m
Gerald vs herO
Clem vs Cure
ByuN vs Solar
Rogue vs MaxPax
ShoWTimE vs TBD
OSC
1d 1h
CranKy Ducklings
1d 10h
Escore
1d 20h
RSL Revival
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
2 days
[ Show More ]
Universe Titan Cup
2 days
Rogue vs Percival
Ladder Legends
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
BSL
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
3 days
Ladder Legends
4 days
BSL
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Soma vs TBD
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
TBD vs YSC
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-04-20
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W4
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.