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[GSL] August Up&Down Day 2 - Page 174
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Balance whine equals ban; good posting equals happy community and moderator | ||
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Dakure
United States513 Posts
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usethis2
2164 Posts
On September 08 2011 09:04 Hider wrote: DO you underrstand the word macro? It has nothing to do with beating players or doing smart things. Polts macro is prob. the worst of any code s player (control however is in the top 5), as he is really bad a building svs. You get that impression because of Artosis' irrational hate on Polt (and mauraders, as I've recently learned - Polt is known as "Maurader King" in Korea like MKP is.. well, "Marine King"). When Polt performs better macro or has more SCVs Artosis will say nothing. He keeps an eagle's eye on Polt's SCV count and the moment it goes below his opponent's he brings it up and pounds on it. It's really a shame how much influence a caster exerts over viewership in this community. Polt's macro is up there. I won't say it's as good as that of MVP, but you don't win tournaments and perform consistently without competitive macro. | ||
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Jayrod
1820 Posts
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usethis2
2164 Posts
I think he will bounce back no doubt, though can't know for sure how long it will take. But overall I hope this may add to MC's experience in the long run. | ||
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Frequencyy
United States344 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9447 Posts
On September 08 2011 09:36 usethis2 wrote: You get that impression because of Artosis' irrational hate on Polt (and mauraders, as I've recently learned - Polt is known as "Maurader King" in Korea like MKP is.. well, "Marine King"). When Polt performs better macro or has more SCVs Artosis will say nothing. He keeps an eagle's eye on Polt's SCV count and the moment it goes below his opponent's he brings it up and pounds on it. It's really a shame how much influence a caster exerts over viewership in this community. Polt's macro is up there. I won't say it's as good as that of MVP, but you don't win tournaments and perform consistently without competitive macro. Serisouly dude, if you cant see that polts scv macro is bad at every f..... game (he is usally decent till 30 or so, and then he fucks up), you are having some serious problems. And the thing is, your scv count should in most situations never go relatively down to the other terran given that there is no aggression. NEver, and i dont care if it goes up (then the opp mismacroes). And dont tell me that polt cuts scvs intentionally. When that is said, I agree with you that Artosis is doing a lot of irrational hype/hate on players, but Polt has bad scv macro, just like select has bad scv macro. When you mention the macro of MVP it imo becomes pretty clear you dont watch/understands the game that intense. His macro isn't spectectular. Its solid, but what makes him so good is his control/game understanding (and no idont care about his bw career. But he will miss scvs once a while as well. | ||
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skrzmark
United States1528 Posts
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Clog
United States950 Posts
On September 08 2011 09:36 usethis2 wrote: You get that impression because of Artosis' irrational hate on Polt (and mauraders, as I've recently learned - Polt is known as "Maurader King" in Korea like MKP is.. well, "Marine King"). When Polt performs better macro or has more SCVs Artosis will say nothing. He keeps an eagle's eye on Polt's SCV count and the moment it goes below his opponent's he brings it up and pounds on it. It's really a shame how much influence a caster exerts over viewership in this community. Polt's macro is up there. I won't say it's as good as that of MVP, but you don't win tournaments and perform consistently without competitive macro. No, his macro is actually quite bad, as well as his multitasking. Good examples are game 2 against Losira in the super tournament as well as the Tal'Darim game against MMA this season. He did win that game with his push, and its been awhile since I've seen the game but I recall him floating over 1.5k mins on like 2 bases as the attack happened. It ended up not mattering, so you could make the argument that he knew that and stopped trying, but that seems like a mistake itself as well so.. He does know how to play to his strengths, though, which is a good thing as he has very strong micro and build orders, and usually tries to utilize those to win the game before macro starts to play too big a part in the game. | ||
CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On September 08 2011 10:11 Hider wrote: Serisouly dude, if you cant see that polts scv macro is bad at every f..... game (he is usally decent till 30 or so, and then he fucks up), you are having some serious problems. And the thing is, your scv count should in most situations never go relatively down to the other terran given that there is no aggression. NEver, and i dont care if it goes up (then the opp mismacroes). And dont tell me that polt cuts scvs intentionally. When that is said, I agree with you that Artosis is doing a lot of irrational hype/hate on players, but Polt has bad scv macro, just like select has bad scv macro. When you mention the macro of MVP it imo becomes pretty clear you dont watch/understands the game that intense. His macro isn't spectectular. Its solid, but what makes him so good is his control/game understanding (and no idont care about his bw career. But he will miss scvs once a while as well. Well yeah, he does intentionally cut SCVs. It doesn't take a genius-level intellect to realize that Polt tries to force low-economy, high aggression games to take advantage of his strengths (micro and positioning). In terms of building an army with available resources he's among the best in the world. In terms of building an economy I'm not fit to judge, as Polt has never transitioned into being a "macro terran" on stage. Maybe like TheBest he plays wonderful macro games but doesn't have the confidence to showcase them against his peers in official matches. Select is fine at SCV production. He's not smooth at pre-establishing infrastructure to account for his expansions and SCV production, which is why he will often float money in the mid-game. Constant SCV production =/= good macro. | ||
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sjschmidt93
United States2518 Posts
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GwSC
United States1997 Posts
On September 08 2011 10:34 sjschmidt93 wrote: I think Taeja and MKP are the favorites for tomorrow sadly. That would mean 5 toss, 20 terran, 7 zerg for October. I suppose its good I enjoy watching TvT....for now : / | ||
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Cyrak
Canada536 Posts
On September 08 2011 10:54 GwSC wrote: I suppose its good I enjoy watching TvT....for now : / At least Code A will be fun next season. :D | ||
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ShootingStars
1475 Posts
Being a MAD macro person doesn't mean you WILL win games Look at Idra... derp. | ||
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BarbieHsu
574 Posts
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BarbieHsu
574 Posts
On September 08 2011 04:38 Olinim wrote: And yet this is all the protoss race has to offer. If the code S protoss play like shit why aren't they replaced with better protoss? What, no one is capable of playing protoss well? When you look at this and the winrates perhaps there is a shortcoming with the race as well. Opinion: Shortcoming of the Protoss is race is that it's boring. Who wants to get good at a boring race huh. | ||
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Doko
Argentina1737 Posts
PvP = nerve wracking adrenaline infused hell PvT = Hope i don't die if I expo. 25-35 in game minutes later if you dint die to expoing comes down to emp vs feedback in which terran has the advantage due to always having scans to clear obs. PvZ = Hope my stargate does enough damage or I loose. (depends on how easy taking a 3rd is) Add all ins that may or may not work and thats protoss in a nutshell. Its pretty dumb. | ||
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usethis2
2164 Posts
On September 08 2011 10:11 Hider wrote: Serisouly dude, if you cant see that polts scv macro is bad at every f..... game (he is usally decent till 30 or so, and then he fucks up), you are having some serious problems. And the thing is, your scv count should in most situations never go relatively down to the other terran given that there is no aggression. NEver, and i dont care if it goes up (then the opp mismacroes). And dont tell me that polt cuts scvs intentionally. When that is said, I agree with you that Artosis is doing a lot of irrational hype/hate on players, but Polt has bad scv macro, just like select has bad scv macro. When you mention the macro of MVP it imo becomes pretty clear you dont watch/understands the game that intense. His macro isn't spectectular. Its solid, but what makes him so good is his control/game understanding (and no idont care about his bw career. But he will miss scvs once a while as well. I don't think you're exactly correct. A lot of times I see both Polt and MVP cut SCV production to bolster their army in the early phase of game. (example, MVP v Genius series in Up and Down matches a couple seasons ago) Sure maybe they're missing SCV production here and there. But I don't exactly value queuing 3~4 SCVs per command center regardless what's happening to your base. I see that from oGsTOP (and oGsNada) a lot. Like his command center having 3~4 SCVs queued while his army is being slaughtered somewhere else on the map. Not exactly praise-worthy, IMO. | ||
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K3Nyy
United States1961 Posts
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movac
Canada494 Posts
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SniXSniPe
United States1938 Posts
On September 08 2011 12:35 Doko wrote: To be fair, playing protoss = PvP = nerve wracking adrenaline infused hell PvT = Hope i don't die if I expo. 25-35 in game minutes later if you dint die to expoing comes down to emp vs feedback in which terran has the advantage due to always having scans to clear obs. PvZ = Hope my stargate does enough damage or I loose. (depends on how easy taking a 3rd is) Add all ins that may or may not work and thats protoss in a nutshell. Its pretty dumb. PvT is more like: I hope I don't die before the 15:00 minute mark. Terran's try to kill/significantly damage the Protoss before it gets really late game, otherwise it's very difficult for them to pull a win. | ||
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