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Please keep the following things out of this topic: -Caster/Stream/player bashing; -Imbalance/race whine; -LoL vs the world arguments; -'Omfg cant believe people aren't watching SPL finals' comments; -any other assorted offtopic negativism and arguments. Enjoy this free multiday/multigame event that has been provided to you. Share your enthusiasm for the games! Feel free to shoot me a PM or query me on IRC for any questions or comments. Have fun! ~Nyovne [special edit: Any more derailing over the fact that someone made a Germany vs Poland WW2 joke after page 21 will be met with a week ban.] | ||
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TheBamf
Denmark366 Posts
"Foreign fans can't even read the games so they're acting like the Terran played well lololol. That's why Blizzard can't Patch" from Milkis twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/OrangeMilkis It is so true, multiple scrubs are like "LOL 1/1/1 is not unstoppable, stop whining the game is balanced" because they do not even understand everything that is going on. | ||
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zul
Germany5427 Posts
On August 22 2011 04:03 Nefariously wrote: Are there any vods of the game? I wanna see. not sure, but they might be released on the ESL Tv website. There will also be replays uploaded. | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11133 Posts
On August 22 2011 04:21 4of8 wrote: Just came back from the event. Damn I am pissed, to open up with this nice build is ok I think, but when he was already 2 games ahead... Puma should be ashamed for this. 90% of the crowd had to watch the most boring game I have ever watched ( it is called LOL) over 2 hours and did he atleast try to show some entertaining games? No... thanks a lot. And thanks a lot to Blizzard for calling this balanced. Heh, I find it quite ironic that MC had gotten the same kind of hate that Puma is currently getting back when he played July in that GSL finals series. After several games of 6gate shenanigans, a lot of hate flowed through the forums against how imba 6gate felt and how MC was insulting the crowd with imba builds creating boring games. And now look. MC is July, and Puma is MC. I expect a solution to be found against 1-1-1 in the next month. Several months from now, I expect all this hate to be forgotten, even if Blizzard does nothing to tweak balance. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
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tdt
United States3179 Posts
On August 22 2011 04:15 Heavenly wrote: why do people post when they clearly have no idea what they're talking about? You have to expand to not get contained and the 1 gate nexus pays for itself. No one base build from protoss beats the 1-1-1 from terran. The warpgate nerf made it so that four gate can't break through a 1-1-1 terran because he now has a siege tank and more marines and instantly wins. Prtty much this. One round of units is huge so 4 gate fails to break teching terran. And it does not matter what units you have when contained inside your ramp with tanks shooting 12 from outside. Best way to beat 1/1/1 is flanking with pylons for reinforcement at natural. Alternativily chase units from his base to your base, | ||
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CuSToM
United States1478 Posts
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Deleted User 108965
1096 Posts
On August 22 2011 04:27 eviltomahawk wrote: Heh, I find it quite ironic that MC had gotten the same kind of hate that Puma is currently getting back when he played July in that GSL finals series. After several games of 6gate shenanigans, a lot of hate flowed through the forums against how imba 6gate felt and how MC was insulting the crowd with imba builds creating boring games. And now look. MC is July, and Puma is MC. I expect a solution to be found against 1-1-1 in the next month. Several months from now, I expect all this hate to be forgotten, even if Blizzard does nothing to tweak balance. i dont know, july was clearly the lesser player in those finals... i feel like that was so completely different. people knew how to counter mc's build before he used them in those finals, but it just seemed like july didnt know what to do against it in these finals it was completely different than that... | ||
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Sein
United States1811 Posts
On August 22 2011 04:21 rareh wrote: About MC, he insulted thorzain before their match in TSL. Here is the interview where the reference is made: At 4:50 He uses the entertainer excuse a lot, so he can get away with his really disrespectful bad manners. Funny thing is idra doesn't get allowed to use the same excuse. Puma didn't tell the coach immediately, because he had a GSTL match, but told right after the match, in consideration that it might affect the team. Its like not telling your son you have cancer before he does a very important exam, i would do the same as puma. I respect puma a lot for this exact reason. Um, I don't understand why NightEnd sounds so hurt there? I don't really see what MC did as "a really bad manner" at all. | ||
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kheldorin
Singapore539 Posts
On August 22 2011 04:24 TheBamf wrote: I got this: "Foreign fans can't even read the games so they're acting like the Terran played well lololol. That's why Blizzard can't Patch" from Milkis twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/OrangeMilkis It is so true, multiple scrubs are like "LOL 1/1/1 is not unstoppable, stop whining the game is balanced" because they do not even understand everything that is going on. Probably because Korean audience have a better understanding of the game as evident by a harder ladder. They also have a different set of casters than the foreign fans do. There was a huge period of time when Protoss players just did not get any credit and anything they do gets bashed. Which is why I LOVE Rotterdam and Mr.Bitters as they cancel each other biases out. | ||
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4of8
Germany256 Posts
On August 22 2011 04:27 eviltomahawk wrote: Heh, I find it quite ironic that MC had gotten the same kind of hate that Puma is currently getting back when he played July in that GSL finals series. After several games of 6gate shenanigans, a lot of hate flowed through the forums against how imba 6gate felt and how MC was insulting the crowd with imba builds creating boring games. And now look. MC is July, and Puma is MC. I expect a solution to be found against 1-1-1 in the next month. Several months from now, I expect all this hate to be forgotten, even if Blizzard does nothing to tweak balance. The difference is July didn't scouted the allins of MC. MC did it always. And I am hearing this solution will be found in month stuff for two month now and nobody did. But I will remember you in a month. For the guys who are searching for the VOD they will be uploaded in a day or so I believe and there will be maybe a restream this night. If you don't want to wait you could watch the replays here.http://www.esl-world.net/masters/season6/cologne/#/masters/season6/cologne/sc2/playoffs/match/23696801/ | ||
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Zane
Romania3916 Posts
On August 22 2011 04:32 Sein wrote: Um, I don't understand why NightEnd sounds so hurt there? That's just his natural voice. | ||
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hi im new
Germany150 Posts
On August 22 2011 04:05 Dariusz wrote: It won't change the fact that you shouldn't expand and make shit ton of probes when you think 1 base allin is coming. WG 20s nerf has nothing to do with it, would you stop with this wine already? You all so mad, just switch to terran and make blizzard patch it if you think it's broken, Your whining isn't doing any good. staying 1 base vs 1 base is suicide. tvp even base t always wins (because mules). especially in an allin situation (because mules). terran nerfs will probably come after those games. i honestly don't even understand why there are still terrans left who believe their race isn't op. some even go as far as thinking its actually toss that is op. a majority of sc2 players including terran finally seems to have understood that terran is op and yet some closeminded people still can't take a step back and think for a second to see the truth. mc played so obviously 100 times better than puma in all three games. even his strategy in game 3 was brilliant. he was planning the basetrade all along by the way. game 2 he lost due to a critical micro mistake which could be argued as ok, but honestly: why should mc lose a game where he is RIDICULOUSLY far ahead just because he made one mistake in an otherwise flawless game? puma didn't even play particularly good or anything. game one was just silly. why would you not immidiatly lose the game when an attack that you also invest half your workers in fails horribly? why in the FUCK would you be able to just, you know, do it again a few minutes later and then win? terran is broken there is just no question about it. and it is NOT limited to 1-1-1, instead it's the combination of mules and marines which both are op in themselves that break this race. 1-1-1 isn't op because banshees or tanks (lol) or anything. it's because marines are too good and ALSO mules allow you to have way more of them than you should have. i mean think about it for one second: terran is able to support 7 or so production facilities (including some tech) on 1 base that isn't even fully saturated now how idiotic is that?!?? marines: tier 1 ranged unit that deals more dps than a stalker (sad but true, look it up) that costs no gas. same price as a worker. they also have the 2nd best dps per cost (best for ranged units) in the game. thanks to instantly hitting projectiles they also don't have any damage overkill. they do not have a lot of hp but surprise! blizzard decided it would be a good idea to give them a cheap and quickly researched t1 upgrade that increases their hp! protoss can't even (fully) support 4 gateways without any tech on one base let alone hope to somehow turn it into a normal game if you can't kill him straight away.. zerg on one base isn't even worth mentioning. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Heavenly
2172 Posts
On August 22 2011 04:27 eviltomahawk wrote: Heh, I find it quite ironic that MC had gotten the same kind of hate that Puma is currently getting back when he played July in that GSL finals series. After several games of 6gate shenanigans, a lot of hate flowed through the forums against how imba 6gate felt and how MC was insulting the crowd with imba builds creating boring games. And now look. MC is July, and Puma is MC. I expect a solution to be found against 1-1-1 in the next month. Several months from now, I expect all this hate to be forgotten, even if Blizzard does nothing to tweak balance. 6gate was around before then, July didn't know how to deal with it and MC won. That's different than 1-1-1. I think people were more pissed off at seeing how MC can use forcefields more so than how strong 6gate is. MC also did different variations and essentially was just playing a non-colossi based style and instead went mass gateway. For instance, in the last game he was securing a third but when July tried to force a fight MC granted him his wish and won. Another game was him revealing DT expand into 6gate blink stalker where he just rolled over July hard despite not having done too much with the DTs. btw Puma's 1-1-1s in both games looked sloppy and he still won. He just had much less than you would expect, looks like he got supply blocked and queued up a ton at one point. | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11133 Posts
On August 22 2011 04:34 4of8 wrote: The difference is July didn't scouted the allins of MC. MC did it always. And I am hearing this solution will be found in month stuff for two month now and nobody did. But I will remember you in a month. For the guys who are searching for the VOD they will be uploaded in a day or so I believe and there will be maybe a restream this night. If you don't want to wait you could watch the replays here.http://www.esl-world.net/masters/season6/cologne/#/masters/season6/cologne/sc2/playoffs/match/23696801/ If the adequate 1-1-1 solution is not found in a month, I promise to blend together Nutella, Bacon, and Sriracha sauce together and drink that shit. Seriously, I'm that confident. | ||
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OPL3SA2
United States378 Posts
On August 22 2011 03:56 Heavenly wrote: The cause behind the whine: MC loses because of his army being EMPed, and losing a warp prism with some templar in it, huge mistakes that are Puma outplaying him MC snipes off drops constantly, snipes off half of Puma's production facilities, has better econ, etc. but it doesn't really matter. For MC to get outplayed, in two seconds if his army is clumped slightly and his incredibly slow templar which clump naturally getting EMP'd. Or his army is caught out of position and his opponent runs in with a stim. While these are obviously big mistakes, MC has to constantly babysit his army, watch the warp prism, macro, and watch for drops at the same time and if any of those things falter he is screwed. Puma, on the other hand, does not get blindsided and caught out of position because his army naturally remains in a clump that fires in all directions equally well, him losing medivacs with units is kind of irrelevant, any protoss drop except half your army in warp prisms will be dealt with with the reinforcements coming from his barracks, etc. While the matchup might not be imbalanced, it is ridiculously difficult to outplay your way to a victory as protoss v terran in those levels, whereas terran v protoss it can happen in the blink of an eye. That's why any mistake MC does is easily the reason he loses but if terran loses it's usually from sitting in 4 storms. MC's army is dependent on his supporting spellcaster and if it dies his army melts away. The terran army is enhanced greatly by ghosts but still wins without them. High templar are just the modern replacement for colossi and ghosts are the new vikings. Name one protoss that would do better than MC in those situations. Name 20 terrans who can do the same as Puma. If you cover up the name Puma, how many other korean terrans could that have been executing the same exact thing? This is the biggest waaaah i ever seen User was warned for this post | ||
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kheldorin
Singapore539 Posts
On August 22 2011 04:31 FrankWalls wrote: i dont know, july was clearly the lesser player in those finals... i feel like that was so completely different. people knew how to counter mc's build before he used them in those finals, but it just seemed like july didnt know what to do against it in these finals it was completely different than that... Everytime MC did it, it was a variation. Was it with blink? Was it just stalker or zealot sentry? Did it wait for an observer? Did it wait for a +1 attack? He even transitioned into DT. What was the opener? Was it 3-gate expand or forge first expand? The timings are all different. People just lump it into 6-gate and whined about it. Even then, P gets nerfed and Z gets buffed, so I don't see how Zerg actually found the solution. | ||
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Ganseng
Russian Federation473 Posts
great pick by eg! unfortunately i missed the games, but god these results make my terran heart sing. gonna watch the vods asap! | ||
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OPL3SA2
United States378 Posts
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knyttym
United States5797 Posts
Judging from the LRs MC had a few misconceptions about the 1/1/1 all-in. Really curious to see if that was the case or just the wording of the posts | ||
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chatuka
1351 Posts
On August 22 2011 04:21 rareh wrote: About MC, he insulted thorzain before their match in TSL. Here is the interview where the reference is made: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKVMyFF69Jk At 4:50 He uses the entertainer excuse a lot, so he can get away with his really disrespectful bad manners. Funny thing is idra doesn't get allowed to use the same excuse. Puma didn't tell the coach immediately, because he had a GSTL match, but told right after the match, in consideration that it might affect the team. Its like not telling your son you have cancer before he does a very important exam, i would do the same as puma. I respect puma a lot for this exact reason. it's all over now man regarding Puma.. I do need know what MC did to a Thorzain at that match., but I will find out by myself. I am starting to get cognitive dissonance with this stuff regarding MC. If it's true that MC is alot worse that people think, I'll have to re-examine MC alot close. played with Jinro's account and made smily faces to Thorzain? that's what i heard. | ||
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