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[IEM] Gamescom - Day 5 - Page 278

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Please keep the following things out of this topic:

-Caster/Stream/player bashing;
-Imbalance/race whine;
-LoL vs the world arguments;
-'Omfg cant believe people aren't watching SPL finals' comments;
-any other assorted offtopic negativism and arguments.

Enjoy this free multiday/multigame event that has been provided to you. Share your enthusiasm for the games!

Feel free to shoot me a PM or query me on IRC for any questions or comments. Have fun! ~Nyovne

[special edit: Any more derailing over the fact that someone made a Germany vs Poland WW2 joke after page 21 will be met with a week ban.]
drcatellino
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada346 Posts
August 21 2011 20:02 GMT
#5541
LR threads quality is really deteriorating. Banhammer should be harder on balance whining.
quote unquote
kheldorin
Profile Joined April 2010
Singapore539 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-21 20:04:54
August 21 2011 20:04 GMT
#5542
On August 22 2011 04:57 Jaedong4thOSL wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2011 04:51 Shrimpy949 wrote:
I'm sure the majority of pro players (not all of them though) are not whining and are working on a solution. People should just be happy for one second. Things like this happen all the time. A player figures out a build that no one knows how to beat and all the other players of that race start using it and everyone complains until someone steps up and finds a counter.

Happened in Brood War all the time. Bisu (who was a no one) devastates Savior (who was a god among men) 3-0 using a new strategy and then protoss goes on to beat zerg left and right until zerg figured out a solution. Zerg starts using 2-hatch muta and no terran can survive. Now 2-hatch muta is nothing.

Things get nerfed and buff for good reasons and though people like to hate on blizzard they tend to make mostly good decisions. Don't just whine at what ever the flavor of the month is.

Just be positive for once...


Exactly, I always think BW is more imbalanced than SC2. In BW, it usually takes 1 or 2 year to solve a build. And terrans are certainly favored in BW all the time. The difference is that SC2 has much easier control mechanics which magnify the minor imbalance. I believe the solution will definitely come. The more blizzard patch, the more balance whining there will be.


I could understand why it would be possible to take a long time to counter 2-base, 3-base strategy with varied transitions. But taking a year to solve a 1-base rush with no variations in transition is just ludicrous.
Radook
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden326 Posts
August 21 2011 20:04 GMT
#5543
On August 22 2011 05:00 noddy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2011 04:50 JustPassingBy wrote:
Well, at least it seems that all I missed was PuMa roflstomping MC.
Still, kind of sad that I missed that... I mean, MC has been practising with a team all this time, while PuMa practises more or less from home, right? Yet the difference between those players shifted in favor of PuMa.


MC played a lot better than PuMa. Watch the games.


Why do you lie? Can agree he played well in game 1 but the rest he wasn't playing better.
Woop Woop!
magnaflow
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada1521 Posts
August 21 2011 20:06 GMT
#5544
Ya know, I really hope DotA2 is a huge hit and takes away some of the garbage we see here.



Close thread please, these forums are turning into the Blizzard forums (no offence)
Xaoz
Profile Joined March 2009
Germany146 Posts
August 21 2011 20:10 GMT
#5545
On August 22 2011 05:04 Radook wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2011 05:00 noddy wrote:
On August 22 2011 04:50 JustPassingBy wrote:
Well, at least it seems that all I missed was PuMa roflstomping MC.
Still, kind of sad that I missed that... I mean, MC has been practising with a team all this time, while PuMa practises more or less from home, right? Yet the difference between those players shifted in favor of PuMa.


MC played a lot better than PuMa. Watch the games.


Why do you lie? Can agree he played well in game 1 but the rest he wasn't playing better.


Sorry, but MC played very very well. His BOs, decisions and executions were almost flawless ( not losing a prism with HTs ofc, but that was unlucky because of speed upgrade timing ). MC did indeed play better than Puma. Not saying that Puma sucks. He is still a really good terran and watching his games was just awesome.
Mentymion
Profile Joined July 2010
Germany259 Posts
August 21 2011 20:11 GMT
#5546
On August 22 2011 05:06 magnaflow wrote:
Ya know, I really hope DotA2 is a huge hit and takes away some of the garbage we see here.



Close thread please, these forums are turning into the Blizzard forums (no offence)


Blizzard forums ?

They have improved....actually picking the good things there and your blown away how good platinum players are especially their way of thinking....you just have to find them and not going for threads like"Oh zerg so OP now" blabla
Poisonblack
Profile Joined May 2011
452 Posts
August 21 2011 20:11 GMT
#5547
one base terran is good yo
OPL3SA2
Profile Joined April 2011
United States378 Posts
August 21 2011 20:12 GMT
#5548

Show nested quote +


You do realize that koreans play Starcraft 2 all day long, all month long. It's called the GSL. I think it would be pretty funny to watch a single series of games and make all sorts of conclusions about imbalance regarding races.

However, it seems to be all everyone is doing here.


Yes, we should instead look at the GSL, where all the races do equally well and are all equally represented... er... hmm.

Over half the GSL Code S is terrans.


Listen, just because many players pick terran doesn't mean it's imbalanced. If you look at the finals of GSL July, it was ZvZ.

I suppose that if it was TvT, it would be more 'proof', but since it's not, you're ignoring it or willing to write it off as if it wasn't even true.
Playoffs? You're talking about playoffs?
plutonowy
Profile Joined August 2011
Afghanistan287 Posts
August 21 2011 20:16 GMT
#5549
Just blink - snipe raven
kill all with dark templar

Why not?


Anyway - Gratz PUMA! GJ!


P.S MC not shaking Puma`s hand after losing make -1 fan here
Fan of gomtv code s. Best SC2. KR >>>ALL Tasteless + Artosis >>>ALL
Mereel
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany895 Posts
August 21 2011 20:17 GMT
#5550
''game one was just silly. why would you not immidiatly lose the game when an attack that you also invest half your workers in fails horribly?
why in the FUCK would you be able to just, you know, do it again a few minutes later and then win?''

true words....it doenst make any sense and everyone knows it who isnt dumb!
TPW Mapmaking Team
HinagikUx
Profile Joined January 2011
United States178 Posts
August 21 2011 20:17 GMT
#5551
On August 22 2011 05:16 plutonowy wrote:
Just blink - snipe raven
kill all with dark templar

Why not?


Anyway - Gratz PUMA! GJ!


P.S MC not shaking Puma`s hand after losing make -1 fan here

b/c you will lose half your stalkers doing that, then terran scans once = gg
uGpTaiga/HinagikUx NA Server
Jaedong4thOSL
Profile Joined August 2011
United States487 Posts
August 21 2011 20:18 GMT
#5552
On August 22 2011 05:16 plutonowy wrote:
Just blink - snipe raven
kill all with dark templar

Why not?


Anyway - Gratz PUMA! GJ!


P.S MC not shaking Puma`s hand after losing make -1 fan here


I guess at the end, he does not have money for a dark templar. He can't even build a second pylon.
Tanith
Profile Joined July 2010
United Kingdom108 Posts
August 21 2011 20:18 GMT
#5553
pretty sure at that point in the game Puma didnt have an orbital to scan, may be mistaken though.
HinagikUx
Profile Joined January 2011
United States178 Posts
August 21 2011 20:19 GMT
#5554
On August 22 2011 05:17 Mereel wrote:
''game one was just silly. why would you not immidiatly lose the game when an attack that you also invest half your workers in fails horribly?
why in the FUCK would you be able to just, you know, do it again a few minutes later and then win?''

true words....it doenst make any sense and everyone knows it who isnt dumb!


yeah, the mechanic of mules is retarded...doing an ALL IN means that if it dies you should LOSE.
uGpTaiga/HinagikUx NA Server
KaiserJohan
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden1808 Posts
August 21 2011 20:20 GMT
#5555
Is it possible to get the VoDs?
England will fight to the last American
GurZtly
Profile Joined June 2011
Austria148 Posts
August 21 2011 20:21 GMT
#5556
On August 22 2011 05:17 Mereel wrote:
''game one was just silly. why would you not immidiatly lose the game when an attack that you also invest half your workers in fails horribly?
why in the FUCK would you be able to just, you know, do it again a few minutes later and then win?''

true words....it doenst make any sense and everyone knows it who isnt dumb!

I will never forget those games where i killed these fucking enemy bases over and over again and got slaughter by one fucking deathball/whatever zerg does... Yeah i agree 1/1/1 is kind of strange, but it´s not like only terran sometimes wins when they should be freaking dead.
j0ker
Profile Joined August 2011
275 Posts
August 21 2011 20:23 GMT
#5557
my god the whining in this thread is ridiculous

if the 1/1/1 all-in was overpowered terrans never would have went away from it in the first place and it would have been nerfed MONTHS ago. its resurgence is simply a function of the metagame. protoss used super aggressive builds for a long time, leading to terrans favoring relatively conservative bio expansion builds. this in turn lead to very greedy protoss expansion builds that they realized they could defend with enough sentries and proper forcefields. well, 1/1/1 counters those(sort of) and now it seems the entire protoss race has forgotten how to stop it. ill grant that it is a very, very strong 1 base attack and is probably tough to stop on some maps with certain spawns, but the notion that a build that has been used since beta, and hasn't really been buffed since, is just now broken is absurd. koreans work out builds 10 hours a day and this would have been the only tvp gsl build around by january of this year.

as for the series

game 1 mc had in the bag and got greedy. he stopped the all in cold and was ahead about 30 supply. at this point he chose to instantly expand again when puma was almost certainly going to re-all in here. teching to colossus before expansion would have been an easy win. he also engaged the 2nd push very poorly and right before charge finished.

game 2 was unfortunate for mc as he was outplaying puma most of the game, but had a pretty awful late game overall. the big battle he lost was the stand out moment, but the things leading into it and directly after played a big role as well. for one, mc maxed out almost purely on gateway. puma had an upgrade advantage and double digit medivacs, it should be no shock that he beat an army that was primarily zealot stalker. while not as extreme, supply count can be deceiving in this case just as it would if a zerg maxed roach against terran. they wouldnt expect to win the battle and a toss maxing stalker zealot with a sprinkle of hts shouldnt either. mc was around 2k/1k for a good amount of time before the big engagement. colossus at that stage of the game shouldnt be considered a sneaky switch but simply standard. terrans can handle colossus decently when given time, but it becomes an extremely difficult task when they are trying to pump out vikings to deal with 2 robo colossi. not sure why there is whining about bio beating gateway. bio thrashes gateway and always has. to compensate, protoss has 2 lethal forms of aoe. being on 5 base and using only 1 of them is a mistake. as for the battle itself, mc derped away his templarprism and clumped the ones that didnt get a plane ticket. 2 emps negated all but a few storms. puma was fairly sloppy with his clumping as well, but simply had too much bio and 2 many medivacs and won handily. mc then ran zealots 1 at a time up a ramp into pumas concave of bio and made the gg timing a good bit faster. considering his bank before hand, mc actually would have been able to afford losing that battle if he had added more production and chose the safer and better 4th location, but he didnt and lost quickly.

game 3 was too odd to give much analysis other than mc could have won with a blink raven snipe early or a blink barracks snipe late, and inexplicably forgot to get a probe out before puma attacked his southern base. was a pretty fun game regardless.
Alaz
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
108 Posts
August 21 2011 20:23 GMT
#5558
So, VoDS anywhere?
Jinivus
Profile Joined July 2011
747 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-21 20:27:35
August 21 2011 20:26 GMT
#5559
On August 22 2011 05:23 j0ker wrote:
my god the whining in this thread is ridiculous

if the 1/1/1 all-in was overpowered terrans never would have went away from it in the first place and it would have been nerfed MONTHS ago. its resurgence is simply a function of the metagame. protoss used super aggressive builds for a long time, leading to terrans favoring relatively conservative bio expansion builds. this in turn lead to very greedy protoss expansion builds that they realized they could defend with enough sentries and proper forcefields. well, 1/1/1 counters those(sort of) and now it seems the entire protoss race has forgotten how to stop it. ill grant that it is a very, very strong 1 base attack and is probably tough to stop on some maps with certain spawns, but the notion that a build that has been used since beta, and hasn't really been buffed since, is just now broken is absurd. koreans work out builds 10 hours a day and this would have been the only tvp gsl build around by january of this year.

as for the series

game 1 mc had in the bag and got greedy. he stopped the all in cold and was ahead about 30 supply. at this point he chose to instantly expand again when puma was almost certainly going to re-all in here. teching to colossus before expansion would have been an easy win. he also engaged the 2nd push very poorly and right before charge finished.

game 2 was unfortunate for mc as he was outplaying puma most of the game, but had a pretty awful late game overall. the big battle he lost was the stand out moment, but the things leading into it and directly after played a big role as well. for one, mc maxed out almost purely on gateway. puma had an upgrade advantage and double digit medivacs, it should be no shock that he beat an army that was primarily zealot stalker. while not as extreme, supply count can be deceiving in this case just as it would if a zerg maxed roach against terran. they wouldnt expect to win the battle and a toss maxing stalker zealot with a sprinkle of hts shouldnt either. mc was around 2k/1k for a good amount of time before the big engagement. colossus at that stage of the game shouldnt be considered a sneaky switch but simply standard. terrans can handle colossus decently when given time, but it becomes an extremely difficult task when they are trying to pump out vikings to deal with 2 robo colossi. not sure why there is whining about bio beating gateway. bio thrashes gateway and always has. to compensate, protoss has 2 lethal forms of aoe. being on 5 base and using only 1 of them is a mistake. as for the battle itself, mc derped away his templarprism and clumped the ones that didnt get a plane ticket. 2 emps negated all but a few storms. puma was fairly sloppy with his clumping as well, but simply had too much bio and 2 many medivacs and won handily. mc then ran zealots 1 at a time up a ramp into pumas concave of bio and made the gg timing a good bit faster. considering his bank before hand, mc actually would have been able to afford losing that battle if he had added more production and chose the safer and better 4th location, but he didnt and lost quickly.

game 3 was too odd to give much analysis other than mc could have won with a blink raven snipe early or a blink barracks snipe late, and inexplicably forgot to get a probe out before puma attacked his southern base. was a pretty fun game regardless.

It resurged because protoss was nerfed. They are no longer capable of dealing with it in an offensive manner or a defensive one. The different variations and nerfs to protoss obviously had an effect. Saying it would be nerfed if it was overpowered months ago is silly because it's a different game.
iMp.will.
Profile Joined July 2009
Bulgaria441 Posts
August 21 2011 20:27 GMT
#5560
First time I hear someone going 0-3 to have played better than his opponent.

bizzare,aint it?
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