The VODs for the IPL 2 Main Event will appear first on our Justin.TV Archives as one long VOD, but will be broken up into individual games and placed on our Main Video Archive in a spoiler-free format soon after the original broadcast. All of IPL 2 Main Event's VODs will be absolutely free to anyone, in all available quality settings, including HD. For Championship Weekend (August 11th - 14th), our YouTube channel will be the best place to look for game by game VODs!
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Please leave general feedback about quality, overlays, graphics, etc. for the IPL in our new Feedback Thread and discuss the games themselves here. Thank you!
Each day there will be match recaps, announcements, and other news posted to our News Section on the IPL website. Thanks for watching from myself, and the rest of the IGN eSports Team!
I love IPL, such an awesome tournament. But, I'm not gonna lie, it feels a bit too spread out, I've honestly gotten quite lost with all the content IPL is putting out. I'm not sure which matches I've watched are the IPL2 games and which matches I've watched were IPL TV games and which ones were just random. IPL1 was pretty straight forward, and fast and to the point.
Now this is probably just me, so don't take it to heart, but I just feel overwhelmed with so much content during the time of the tourney. Maybe have IPL TV on during off seasons? And then have the tourney over a shorter period?
Huh. I just realized that no matter what the results are tonight, we will have two Zergs (IdrA and Nerchio/Ret), two Terrans (Strelok and Moonan/Thorzain) and two Protoss (Mana and White-Ra) in the top six.
Edit: Also just realized that although both White-Ra and Mana are in the ro6, the next highest Protoss on only top 24. Those two are the only Toss in the top 16.
On August 12 2011 03:21 forgottendreams wrote: Mana's been playing so extremely strong lately I'd expect him to win.
I hope for nerchio > ret!
If these games were played around a month ago, I wouldn't give MaNa too much of a chance, given that IdrA completely dominated him in both of the NASL-matches they met eachother in.
On August 12 2011 03:21 forgottendreams wrote: Mana's been playing so extremely strong lately I'd expect him to win.
I hope for nerchio > ret!
If these games were played around a month ago, I wouldn't give MaNa too much of a chance, given that IdrA completely dominated him in both of the NASL-matches they met eachother in.
Yeah but these replays are a bit old, this would be around the time before idra really started practicing hard :/
Edit; not trying to make excuses for idra, just calling it like it is, he's prolly gonna get rickroll'd by Mana
On August 12 2011 09:14 Choboo wrote: I'm so sad that these are old replays. I really want to see Mana's new PvZ vs Idra ;;
Well he is still not THAT good against zerg. Got to say Idra really has a great (as in easy) draw so far.
It's a lot better than before at least ^_^ I think he could take out Idra pretty easy if they played today considering that Idra's ZvP is pretty "meh" imo
On August 12 2011 09:14 Choboo wrote: I'm so sad that these are old replays. I really want to see Mana's new PvZ vs Idra ;;
Well he is still not THAT good against zerg. Got to say Idra really has a great (as in easy) draw so far.
It's a lot better than before at least ^_^ I think he could take out Idra pretty easy if they played today considering that Idra's ZvP is pretty "meh" imo
i wouldnt say its "meh"
He took out incontrol 2-0 pretty easily, and played very well against cruncher (both at MLG)
On August 12 2011 09:14 Choboo wrote: I'm so sad that these are old replays. I really want to see Mana's new PvZ vs Idra ;;
Well he is still not THAT good against zerg. Got to say Idra really has a great (as in easy) draw so far.
It's a lot better than before at least ^_^ I think he could take out Idra pretty easy if they played today considering that Idra's ZvP is pretty "meh" imo
i wouldnt say its "meh"
He took out incontrol 2-0 pretty easily, and played very well against cruncher (both at MLG)
Incontrol and Cruncher aren't really good examples... He lost to Naniwa (at MLG) and I would say Mana's current PvZ is as good as Naniwa's
On August 12 2011 09:32 Serpico wrote: Idra dominated mana the last time they played I thought....
Yeah, Mana's PvZ was really bad before. He's improved a lot
On August 12 2011 09:14 Choboo wrote: I'm so sad that these are old replays. I really want to see Mana's new PvZ vs Idra ;;
Well he is still not THAT good against zerg. Got to say Idra really has a great (as in easy) draw so far.
It's a lot better than before at least ^_^ I think he could take out Idra pretty easy if they played today considering that Idra's ZvP is pretty "meh" imo
i wouldnt say its "meh"
He took out incontrol 2-0 pretty easily, and played very well against cruncher (both at MLG)
Incontrol and Cruncher aren't really good examples... He lost to Naniwa (at MLG) and I would say Mana's current PvZ is as good as Naniwa's
On August 12 2011 09:14 Choboo wrote: I'm so sad that these are old replays. I really want to see Mana's new PvZ vs Idra ;;
Well he is still not THAT good against zerg. Got to say Idra really has a great (as in easy) draw so far.
It's a lot better than before at least ^_^ I think he could take out Idra pretty easy if they played today considering that Idra's ZvP is pretty "meh" imo
i wouldnt say its "meh"
He took out incontrol 2-0 pretty easily, and played very well against cruncher (both at MLG)
Incontrol and Cruncher aren't really good examples... He lost to Naniwa (at MLG) and I would say Mana's current PvZ is as good as Naniwa's
On August 12 2011 09:32 Serpico wrote: Idra dominated mana the last time they played I thought....
Yeah, Mana's PvZ was really bad before. He's improved a lot
idra vs naniwa was 3 cheeses in a row from both players
Yeah that was maybe a bad example but I still think Mana's PvZ is really strong right now. He went 2-3 against Dimaga in the Assembly finals and won against Morrow 2-0 just recently. And Morrow and Dimaga's ZvP is much stronger than Idra's tbh
On August 12 2011 09:14 Choboo wrote: I'm so sad that these are old replays. I really want to see Mana's new PvZ vs Idra ;;
Well he is still not THAT good against zerg. Got to say Idra really has a great (as in easy) draw so far.
It's a lot better than before at least ^_^ I think he could take out Idra pretty easy if they played today considering that Idra's ZvP is pretty "meh" imo
i wouldnt say its "meh"
He took out incontrol 2-0 pretty easily, and played very well against cruncher (both at MLG)
Incontrol and Cruncher aren't really good examples... He lost to Naniwa (at MLG) and I would say Mana's current PvZ is as good as Naniwa's
On August 12 2011 09:14 Choboo wrote: I'm so sad that these are old replays. I really want to see Mana's new PvZ vs Idra ;;
Well he is still not THAT good against zerg. Got to say Idra really has a great (as in easy) draw so far.
It's a lot better than before at least ^_^ I think he could take out Idra pretty easy if they played today considering that Idra's ZvP is pretty "meh" imo
i wouldnt say its "meh"
He took out incontrol 2-0 pretty easily, and played very well against cruncher (both at MLG)
Incontrol and Cruncher aren't really good examples... He lost to Naniwa (at MLG) and I would say Mana's current PvZ is as good as Naniwa's
On August 12 2011 09:32 Serpico wrote: Idra dominated mana the last time they played I thought....
Yeah, Mana's PvZ was really bad before. He's improved a lot
But these games were played awhile ago. I think 2 months ago.
I know...
On August 12 2011 09:14 Choboo wrote: I'm so sad that these are old replays. I really want to see Mana's new PvZ vs Idra ;;
On August 12 2011 09:14 Choboo wrote: I'm so sad that these are old replays. I really want to see Mana's new PvZ vs Idra ;;
Well he is still not THAT good against zerg. Got to say Idra really has a great (as in easy) draw so far.
It's a lot better than before at least ^_^ I think he could take out Idra pretty easy if they played today considering that Idra's ZvP is pretty "meh" imo
i wouldnt say its "meh"
He took out incontrol 2-0 pretty easily, and played very well against cruncher (both at MLG)
Incontrol and Cruncher aren't really good examples... He lost to Naniwa (at MLG) and I would say Mana's current PvZ is as good as Naniwa's
On August 12 2011 09:14 Choboo wrote: I'm so sad that these are old replays. I really want to see Mana's new PvZ vs Idra ;;
Well he is still not THAT good against zerg. Got to say Idra really has a great (as in easy) draw so far.
It's a lot better than before at least ^_^ I think he could take out Idra pretty easy if they played today considering that Idra's ZvP is pretty "meh" imo
i wouldnt say its "meh"
He took out incontrol 2-0 pretty easily, and played very well against cruncher (both at MLG)
Incontrol and Cruncher aren't really good examples... He lost to Naniwa (at MLG) and I would say Mana's current PvZ is as good as Naniwa's
On August 12 2011 09:32 Serpico wrote: Idra dominated mana the last time they played I thought....
Yeah, Mana's PvZ was really bad before. He's improved a lot
why not? cruncher was one of the open bracket winners, he played like a beast that tournament. though saying he is a good player on TL is not going to be taken seriously, sadly.
These matches were played after either Dallas or Anaheim, cant remember which, when did MC come to MLG and beat IdrA?
hoping thorzain pulls this one, would love to see him go far in this tourny
On August 12 2011 09:14 Choboo wrote: I'm so sad that these are old replays. I really want to see Mana's new PvZ vs Idra ;;
Well he is still not THAT good against zerg. Got to say Idra really has a great (as in easy) draw so far.
It's a lot better than before at least ^_^ I think he could take out Idra pretty easy if they played today considering that Idra's ZvP is pretty "meh" imo
i wouldnt say its "meh"
He took out incontrol 2-0 pretty easily, and played very well against cruncher (both at MLG)
Incontrol and Cruncher aren't really good examples... He lost to Naniwa (at MLG) and I would say Mana's current PvZ is as good as Naniwa's
On August 12 2011 09:32 Serpico wrote: Idra dominated mana the last time they played I thought....
Yeah, Mana's PvZ was really bad before. He's improved a lot
why not? cruncher was one of the open bracket winners, he played like a beast that tournament. though saying he is a good player on TL is not going to be taken seriously, sadly.
These matches were played after either Dallas or Anaheim, cant remember which, when did MC come to MLG and beat IdrA?
hoping thorzain pulls this one, would love to see him go far in this tourny
I don't think Cruncher is bad, he's probably one of the better NA Protoss right now. Although, I don't think he's as good as Naniwa, Huk or Mana atm.
On August 12 2011 10:02 [Silverflame] wrote: Please dApollo please do me a favor and call Moonan "Moonan" not "Mooman"! No offense here, everything else is great^^
Agreed. I am amazed that someone hasn't corrected him yet, he called him "Mooman" last cast as well..
On August 12 2011 10:05 mheroin wrote: IGN: can you guys get rid of the third player in game? Obscuring the resources sucks
The third player is a consequence of using "cloaked" maps. These prohibit people from checking match history to spoil results before the games are broadcast. It is a small price to pay for a spoiler free tournament.
On August 12 2011 10:05 mheroin wrote: IGN: can you guys get rid of the third player in game? Obscuring the resources sucks
its so that there are no spoilers, the 3rd player means you cant find results in the match history.
Also it isnt obscuring the resources, i assume you mean the top right where it shows both players resources/pop? that is because these games were played on an older patch.
I'm not much of a Terran player, but Thorzain is really growing on me. Love his patience and positioning, although sometimes he gets a little too comfortable
On August 12 2011 10:05 mheroin wrote: IGN: can you guys get rid of the third player in game? Obscuring the resources sucks
The third player is a consequence of using "cloaked" maps. These prohibit people from checking match history to spoil results before the games are broadcast. It is a small price to pay for a spoiler free tournament.
Sadly, the result from Mana v/s Idra was spoiled >_>
Really, you can"t visit the Idra fanpage without getting spoilered. They are always checking his matches and following his in-game discussions to discover if he lose or if he won.
On August 12 2011 10:05 mheroin wrote: IGN: can you guys get rid of the third player in game? Obscuring the resources sucks
its so that there are no spoilers, the 3rd player means you cant find results in the match history.
Also it isnt obscuring the resources, i assume you mean the top right where it shows both players resources/pop? that is because these games were played on an older patch.
But didn't they said that for the later rounds they had managed another way to hide match history that wasn't dependent of a third player?
Summary: Ret rushed with lings + 6 drones, made 2 spines on Nerchio's creep. Nerchio didn't fast expo and was able to hold with a drone pull and a spine of his own.
so smart. soooo smart. perfect play, solid play. his defense first and third game was amazing, good timing and his baneling cheese/surprise was pretty well executed.
On August 12 2011 10:32 Finrod1 wrote: nerchio's zvz is just sooo goood. really impressive this last weeks. gonna be intresting if he can perform at lans
He has the sickest ZvZ, invidually microed speedlings with 350 average apm, its just crazy and effective.
On August 12 2011 10:47 ZAiNs wrote: Wat? The unit tab says there is a Terran in the game with 6 SCVs O_O.
The third player is a consequence of using "cloaked" maps. These prohibit people from checking match history to spoil results before the games are broadcast. It is a small price to pay for a spoiler free tournament.
Idra playing on 2 streams at once! Idra vs Mana on this stream. Idra vs Tandangho on EG Masters Cup. How old is the EG Master's cup? Interested to see the difference in play level if any
On August 12 2011 10:50 Shellshock1122 wrote: Idra playing on 2 streams at once! Idra vs Mana on this stream. Idra vs Tandangho on EG Masters Cup. How old is the EG Master's cup? Interested to see the difference in play level if any
Actually, it's the IPL games who are something like a month old.
On August 12 2011 10:50 Shellshock1122 wrote: Idra playing on 2 streams at once! Idra vs Mana on this stream. Idra vs Tandangho on EG Masters Cup. How old is the EG Master's cup? Interested to see the difference in play level if any
Well one is PvZ and the other a ZvZ, so hardly a good comparison for level of play. Still though, nice to have all this amazing content going on
On August 12 2011 10:50 Shellshock1122 wrote: Idra playing on 2 streams at once! Idra vs Mana on this stream. Idra vs Tandangho on EG Masters Cup. How old is the EG Master's cup? Interested to see the difference in play level if any
Wow this sux...my internet is only good for one stream but I love tandongho but yet I love PvZ more then ZvZ
Hey Joshy, how old are this rounds' games? I saw in the ret vs Nerchio games it was already after the patch that let you see both players' food when observing, but in the idra vs mana game you can only see the selected player. Are the winners' round games older than the losers' round?
On August 12 2011 11:09 Shellshock1122 wrote: Hey Joshy, how old are this rounds' games? I saw in the ret vs Nerchio games it was already after the patch that let you see both players' food when observing, but in the idra vs mana game you can only see the selected player. Are the winners' round games older than the losers' round?
This is due to the cloaked maps. All games were after that patch.
On August 12 2011 11:09 Shellshock1122 wrote: Hey Joshy, how old are this rounds' games? I saw in the ret vs Nerchio games it was already after the patch that let you see both players' food when observing, but in the idra vs mana game you can only see the selected player. Are the winners' round games older than the losers' round?
This is due to the cloaked maps. All games were after that patch.
On August 12 2011 11:22 sashamunguia wrote: i missed the last 6 seconds, what happened????
, i saw he had 24 roaches making, which would be able to take those colossi afaik :S
You serious?
24 roaches against 3 colossi and 15+ stalkers, the roaches would melt unless Mana decided it'd be a good idea to walk his colossi to the front of his army.
On August 12 2011 11:21 Rasky wrote: lol see Collosus make Hydras
What else would you do? Really. Please tell me. Because if you go corruptors in that situation you are equally fucked since they would need to be in huge numbers to effectively kill the collos before they get sniped by stalkers.
4base Roach/Hydra is just as bad, if not better, as Roach Corruptor on that old crappy map.
Oh man idra has some serious mental hurdles until he can be a real champion, once he passes those hurdles though he can be 3x better then he is right now.
i cant think of a single champion in any sport or game that isn't 100% dedicated and has the will to fight through anything winning or losing. so sad to see idra lose like this.
lol idra is such a fucking tool in these games. hes got absolutely no respect for the game or any of his opponents. every time he loses nobody knows whats going on.
On August 12 2011 11:29 Condor Hero wrote: lol idra is such a fucking tool in these games. hes got absolutely no respect for the game or any of his opponents. every time he loses nobody knows whats going on.
Weird how quickly IdrA can simply fall apart in a series. He really needs to work on his attitude during his games and playing them out at the very least. Now he has one chance left..
Wtf, why did Idra build so many lings anyhow. He could've continued with the spine crawlers, cancelled WG, got the forge, force like 5-6 cannons and drone behind that and come way far ahead like in the Nestea build. Instead he just rage quits... gj Idra
It would be really nice to see Mana win this despite being 2-0 initially. Of course, he has been quite lucky to get into this situation but I hope that luck continues.
On August 12 2011 11:31 Onos wrote: Map on which protoss can wall of and get 3 bases unopposed with no way to counter? What exactly can he do, play 30 min until the death ball kills you?
LOL idra fanboys cheering him on.
hes been trying this "imbalance" bullshit for YEARS. all you fanboys will eventually grow tired of his countless excuses.
On August 12 2011 11:31 Onos wrote: Map on which protoss can wall of and get 3 bases unopposed with no way to counter? What exactly can he do, play 30 min until the death ball kills you?
Terminus has an 80% winrate for Zerg.
PS: Zerg can deathball right back with brood/infestor.
I really dont understand that. I know he was behind on drones by quite a bit but he would have delayed warp gate, killed a gateway, and he forced a shitload of cannons which he could have also killed.
I thought he could have done some decent damage with it, but as it has been said NesTea only pulled it off because the Nexus was within range, and if you snipe the nexus you are ahead.
IdrA is just so weak mentally, I used to be a big fan but now I hate watching him when he's like this, it has been widely acknowledged that he has these problems and still he hasn't fixed them.
On August 12 2011 11:31 Onos wrote: Map on which protoss can wall of and get 3 bases unopposed with no way to counter? What exactly can he do, play 30 min until the death ball kills you?
On August 12 2011 11:30 sashamunguia wrote: i dont really know it my comment may be considered as a spoiler, but being fail-safe, here it goes: [Question about who sent the replay]
I believe IPL always sets up a custom game with a 3rd observer who leaves last. This also keeps the result from being spoiled by random people looking at the players' Bnet game history because the game shows up a loss for both of the players.
On August 12 2011 11:31 FallDownMarigold wrote: Is Tal Darim actually bigger than Terminus or was TB just makin' shit up? Just wondering
TB is bad in terms of game knowledge. I cringed when he didnt know why idra built corruptors in tal darim game.
I think crevasse is bigger than both no?
Hmm.. I didn't notice TB was so bad in terms of game knowledge til now. I guess his enthusiasm hides it, which is okay I guess.. He should refrain from analysis lol and stick with play-by-play
Wait, wouldn't idra have delayed warpgate tech and taken a gate? He forced those cannons too. I guess he meant it to be a complete bust with all those lings but I mean, come on. This is why idra will never be a champion. He has no perseverance.
On August 12 2011 11:37 haka wrote: Wait, wouldn't idra have delayed warpgate tech and taken a gate? He forced those cannons too. I guess he meant it to be a complete bust with all those lings but I mean, come on. This is why idra will never be a champion. He has no perseverance.
Yeah even if it didn't go as he wanted he's gotta learn to improvise. He has three well placed spine crawlers, and protoss wasn't gonna break it anytime soon. Once he destroyed the buildings making the wall he could have at least had a shot at running a roach/ling force in there.
On August 12 2011 11:37 haka wrote: Wait, wouldn't idra have delayed warpgate tech and taken a gate? He forced those cannons too. I guess he meant it to be a complete bust with all those lings but I mean, come on. This is why idra will never be a champion. He has no perseverance.
Because Mana built an early second cyber, would get warpgate after the rush, and kill him with a 6 gate that idra cant defend because he has no econ?
On August 12 2011 11:31 FallDownMarigold wrote: Is Tal Darim actually bigger than Terminus or was TB just makin' shit up? Just wondering
TB is bad in terms of game knowledge. I cringed when he didnt know why idra built corruptors in tal darim game.
I think crevasse is bigger than both no?
Hmm.. I didn't notice TB was so bad in terms of game knowledge til now. I guess his enthusiasm hides it, which is okay I guess.. He should refrain from analysis lol and stick with play-by-play
yeah he should. he just said hallucinate means no ob from protoss. he doesnt know that obs are slow as shit for scouting zerg and still required to prevent burrow roaches.
On August 12 2011 11:37 haka wrote: Wait, wouldn't idra have delayed warpgate tech and taken a gate? He forced those cannons too. I guess he meant it to be a complete bust with all those lings but I mean, come on. This is why idra will never be a champion. He has no perseverance.
A gate and warpgate for a 10 workers deficit ? 25 useless lings and 3 spines that are going to die ? yeah sure
Seems idra is a bit off today.. Lots of corruptors on taldarim almost lost him the game (after great nydus canals), late spire on shakuras- no corruptors, tilted on terminus.. wondering how this game goes.
On August 12 2011 11:42 Loxley wrote: Seems idra is a bit off today.. Lots of corruptors on taldarim almost lost him the game (after great nydus canals), late spire on shakuras- no corruptors, tilted on terminus.. wondering how this game goes.
Stop listening to TB.
Every damn time idra loses 1 game TB spouts the "HE BE TILTING" line.
It's a cheese. It has worked before. Against Mana. Mana scouted it. Cheese doesn't work when it's scouted.
On August 12 2011 11:41 Fighter wrote: Can anyone tell me what happened game 2? I was afk and when I checked the thread it's just a bunch of people saying things like, "oh god Idra why?"
What did Idra do??
Idra didn't play well and Mana, to his credit, has put in some very strong performances.
On August 12 2011 11:41 Fighter wrote: Can anyone tell me what happened game 2? I was afk and when I checked the thread it's just a bunch of people saying things like, "oh god Idra why?"
What did Idra do??
It was game 4 i guess.
Lair rush and spine crawler push. Insta leaves shortly after spines finish
Werent these games played way before latest MLG? Which means that Idra was in a real slump when these games were played, not at all a good representation of his skills (which I dont know how high they are, just asking people to not judge)
On August 12 2011 11:40 Condor Hero wrote: this is bad for idra lol hes still only on roach tech. mana would just roll him if he pushed now.
No way, Mana had 1 colossi, if he had pushed after that he would have lost his whole army.
he had two but its too late once zerg gets a round of roaches up. once protoss establishes himself in front of zerg natural its a game won because no chance of flanks and knowing idra hed probably gg if mana moved on creep.
On August 12 2011 11:42 Loxley wrote: Seems idra is a bit off today.. Lots of corruptors on taldarim almost lost him the game (after great nydus canals), late spire on shakuras- no corruptors, tilted on terminus.. wondering how this game goes.
Stop listening to TB.
Every damn time idra loses 1 game TB spouts the "HE BE TILTING" line.
It's a cheese. It has worked before. Against Mana. Mana scouted it. Cheese doesn't work when it's scouted.
On August 12 2011 11:42 Loxley wrote: Seems idra is a bit off today.. Lots of corruptors on taldarim almost lost him the game (after great nydus canals), late spire on shakuras- no corruptors, tilted on terminus.. wondering how this game goes.
Stop listening to TB.
Every damn time idra loses 1 game TB spouts the "HE BE TILTING" line.
It's a cheese. It has worked before. Against Mana. Mana scouted it. Cheese doesn't work when it's scouted.
On August 12 2011 11:44 Gescom wrote: Why is Idra trying to be aggressive here??
Attacking out of rage, nothing more, nothing less. He could've pulled back to gain a larger lead and tech up more after the initial snipes but he was on tilt.
On August 12 2011 11:42 Loxley wrote: Seems idra is a bit off today.. Lots of corruptors on taldarim almost lost him the game (after great nydus canals), late spire on shakuras- no corruptors, tilted on terminus.. wondering how this game goes.
Stop listening to TB.
Every damn time idra loses 1 game TB spouts the "HE BE TILTING" line.
It's a cheese. It has worked before. Against Mana. Mana scouted it. Cheese doesn't work when it's scouted.
On August 12 2011 11:42 Loxley wrote: Seems idra is a bit off today.. Lots of corruptors on taldarim almost lost him the game (after great nydus canals), late spire on shakuras- no corruptors, tilted on terminus.. wondering how this game goes.
Stop listening to TB.
Every damn time idra loses 1 game TB spouts the "HE BE TILTING" line.
It's a cheese. It has worked before. Against Mana. Mana scouted it. Cheese doesn't work when it's scouted.
On August 12 2011 11:42 Loxley wrote: Seems idra is a bit off today.. Lots of corruptors on taldarim almost lost him the game (after great nydus canals), late spire on shakuras- no corruptors, tilted on terminus.. wondering how this game goes.
Stop listening to TB.
Every damn time idra loses 1 game TB spouts the "HE BE TILTING" line.
It's a cheese. It has worked before. Against Mana. Mana scouted it. Cheese doesn't work when it's scouted.
On August 12 2011 11:46 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: Glad idra is losing. Needs to learn Roach/ling corruptor and roach/hydra/corruptor are outdated as hell
Okay the last one was really really respectless. If you don't give your opponent any respect and behave with this attitude you should be banned from other tournaments and i certainly don't respect you. Very very poor attitude. I hope ign bans Idra, otherwise he won't learn if it hurts his pocket.
Lol don't get me wrong, Idra can be an amazing player. But his bad manner really makes it hard for me to appreciate him. So unprofessional and rude. GG Mana, see ya Idra!
On August 12 2011 11:46 Choboo wrote: Mana so fucking good ! :D
TBH his play wasn't THAT great only thing he did was turtle. The series was terrible overall, Idra used an outdated zvp style and Mana just turtled cause thats what you do against Roach Hydra
On August 12 2011 11:42 Loxley wrote: Seems idra is a bit off today.. Lots of corruptors on taldarim almost lost him the game (after great nydus canals), late spire on shakuras- no corruptors, tilted on terminus.. wondering how this game goes.
Stop listening to TB.
Every damn time idra loses 1 game TB spouts the "HE BE TILTING" line.
It's a cheese. It has worked before. Against Mana. Mana scouted it. Cheese doesn't work when it's scouted.
Idra is tilting...
Biased on what? Your opinion?
He was clearly tilted those last two matches. Cursing out Mana is clear evidence.
On August 12 2011 11:42 Loxley wrote: Seems idra is a bit off today.. Lots of corruptors on taldarim almost lost him the game (after great nydus canals), late spire on shakuras- no corruptors, tilted on terminus.. wondering how this game goes.
Stop listening to TB.
Every damn time idra loses 1 game TB spouts the "HE BE TILTING" line.
It's a cheese. It has worked before. Against Mana. Mana scouted it. Cheese doesn't work when it's scouted.
I think people should stop giving Idra a free pass on his rage... that was really unprofessional. I don't know what the IPL rules are exactly but I feel like most leagues would punish players for that kind of behavior.
On August 12 2011 11:46 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: Glad idra is losing. Needs to learn Roach/ling corruptor and roach/hydra/corruptor are outdated as hell
these games are outdated as hell
Indeed. But some of the more enlightened zerg caught on that this style sucks ass against toss even months ago.
Typical IdrA, goes 2-0 up then throws the series away. I actually thought Mana was pretty uninspiring with his turtle deathball style but IdrA just tilts so bad it is ridiculous.
Wouldn't even be top 5 foreign Zergs in the world right now.
Idra.. throwing away larvea.. Soooo many zerglings just being 1shotted by the colossi. His aggressive approach on crevasse wasn't nearly cost effective. With 1 base up and mapcontrol i can't understand his gameplan. Ahwell, the lots of BM and rage-quitting promised a last game without much concentration i guess.
Sad stuff, hope the EG house gets the training regime down in time.
On August 12 2011 11:47 jexxto wrote: IdrA is becoming a caricature of himself with the crazy tilting and BM.
i kinda agree with you
he was somewhat respectful before but it seems like he's taken up an alternate ego because of his reputation within the community. it was bad before but it seems to be worse now. i think the community is a big reason why he tilts hard, and the second reason is that he isn't as good as he was before. he was almost making top spots in gsl before, now he's losing to random foreigners and this decrease in status can be so demoralizing.
On August 12 2011 11:46 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: Glad idra is losing. Needs to learn Roach/ling corruptor and roach/hydra/corruptor are outdated as hell
these games are outdated as hell
Not as outdated as Idra's stupid unit composition.
On August 12 2011 11:31 FallDownMarigold wrote: Is Tal Darim actually bigger than Terminus or was TB just makin' shit up? Just wondering
TB is bad in terms of game knowledge. I cringed when he didnt know why idra built corruptors in tal darim game.
I think crevasse is bigger than both no?
Hmm.. I didn't notice TB was so bad in terms of game knowledge til now. I guess his enthusiasm hides it, which is okay I guess.. He should refrain from analysis lol and stick with play-by-play
yeah he should. he just said hallucinate means no ob from protoss. he doesnt know that obs are slow as shit for scouting zerg and still required to prevent burrow roaches.
No he said, if a protoss gets hallucination he might not likely get obs. This is true as builds that scout with a phoenix first usually delay a robo.
I think Idra's problem was that he wasnt getting to tier 3 fast enough.
As for the kids complaining about the rage, it's an entertainment business. It brings popularity. The game would not be fun without having a few "bad guys".
Idra clearly outplayed mana, protoss just has a much easier time setting up a strong unit composition while turtling. So boring to watch. Idra should have taken this.
On August 12 2011 11:48 Jinivus wrote: Idra's philosophy : Don't practice effectively and get owned by superior players Please fanboys with your immature rage, get more popular, make $$$
This. Why should he stop with his disrsepect and bad manners if he makes money with it? Stupid fanboys.
On August 12 2011 11:47 Finrod1 wrote: Okay the last one was really really respectless. If you don't give your opponent any respect and behave with this attitude you should be banned from other tournaments and i certainly don't respect you. Very very poor attitude. I hope ign bans Idra, otherwise he won't learn if it hurts his pocket.
Honestly, Mana behaved professionally towards Idra when he lost the first two games - always gging after losing and what not. I don't know what the history is between the two players, but that is definitely no way to behave no matter how skilled you are.
On August 12 2011 11:46 Heavenly wrote: Step one: make mass roaches and amove Step two: rage at the game when it doesn't work
Step one : sit on 3 bases and mass colosssus/stalker
Step two : a-move
You seriously call that A-move?
Well for zerg to lose it HAS to mean something is wrong... right?
Also, I question IdrA's tech choice. I mean Mass roach? Why not incorporate some infestors?
Did not say IdrA played well.
But you surely cant say Mana played well. He won the 2 games by doing nothing, and he won the last one by sitting on 3 bases and massing colossus/stalker
On August 12 2011 11:46 Heavenly wrote: Step one: make mass roaches and amove Step two: rage at the game when it doesn't work
Step one : sit on 3 bases and mass colosssus/stalker
Step two : a-move
Lmao right, because you "amove" blink stalkers and "amove" sentries to forcefield. And that's the style that works against mass roaches, that is completely IdrA's problem. Try a-moving against infestors. What do you expect Mana to do, storm drop and use speed prisms all over the place? You win by turtling until 200 when your opponent masses roaches.
On August 12 2011 11:49 bunnymuncher wrote: I think Idra's problem was that he wasnt getting to tier 3 fast enough.
As for the kids complaining about the rage, it's an entertainment business. It brings popularity. The game would not be fun without having a few "bad guys".
Idra clearly outplayed mana, protoss just has a much easier time setting up a strong unit composition while turtling. So boring to watch. Idra should have taken this.
So outplayed equals forgetting Hive tech and forgetting to send drones to your fourth right?
I think that idra was justifiably mad, but at the wrong person - the rage shouldn't have been directed at Mana, but at himself, because it was mostly him just losing those games.
On August 12 2011 11:49 bunnymuncher wrote: Idra clearly outplayed mana, protoss just has a much easier time setting up a strong unit composition while turtling. So boring to watch. Idra should have taken this.
On August 12 2011 11:48 Jinivus wrote: Idra's philosophy : Don't practice effectively and get owned by superior players Please fanboys with your immature rage, get more popular, make $$$
Please stop talking you obviously know nothing about IdrA or his results and are just worthlessly spouting off opinions.
Man Idra made me jizz with his nydus play, but he fucking tilted hard. Haha I feel bad for him, I know that feeling of your anger taking over and a game slipping out of your hands, but his reaction, although entertaining as hell was pretty over the top.
A straight out FUCK YOU to a play who is just trying to win like you are is so out of line. I hope he catches on to his foolishness without hitting a proverbial rock bottom. He shows such high level play at times but his un professional bad manner will always over shadow that.
it's actually pathetic that idra would type something like that. just absolutely ridiculous lol.. saying no gg is one thing. and really that is quite bad enough imo but to say something like that to another player is just .. im speechless.
On August 12 2011 11:46 Heavenly wrote: Step one: make mass roaches and amove Step two: rage at the game when it doesn't work
Step one : sit on 3 bases and mass colosssus/stalker
Step two : a-move
You seriously call that A-move?
Well for zerg to lose it HAS to mean something is wrong... right?
Also, I question IdrA's tech choice. I mean Mass roach? Why not incorporate some infestors?
Did not say IdrA played well.
But you surely cant say Mana played well. He won the 2 games by doing nothing, and he won the last one by sitting on 3 bases and massing colossus/stalker
Yeah it was mana's fault idra decided to spine crawler rush not even touching the nexus like diamond pub.
On August 12 2011 11:46 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: Glad idra is losing. Needs to learn Roach/ling corruptor and roach/hydra/corruptor are outdated as hell
these games are outdated as hell
Indeed. But some of the more enlightened zerg caught on that this style sucks ass against toss even months ago.
everyone knew it sucked, but only a few people were early converters to infestor or baneling styles
whats really funny is that it puts idra's spoilers he was talking about with sheth in a brand new light, lets just say I'd put money on idra beating nerchio tomorow and idra beating mana when they play again in the tournament
On August 12 2011 11:47 Loki57 wrote: 15000 more resources spent in both of the last games and he loses T_T
yup, thats how it goes when you obviously dont follow ZvP metagame... roach-corruptor have never been cost effective against stalker - collosi. The problem is that Idra just wants to macro and a-move and infestors and blingdrops requires to much micro for him.. thats what I think atleast. Most of the games I see him play in ZvP is him making a bunch of roaches and hydras and a-moves. Remember Idra vs MC in MLG ..... Idra didnt micro for shit and MC was able to win from a 60 supply disadvantage due to just that.
On August 12 2011 11:51 Namkung wrote: it's actually pathetic that idra would type something like that. just absolutely ridiculous lol.. saying no gg is one thing. and really that is quite bad enough imo but to say something like that to another player is just .. im speechless.
On August 12 2011 11:48 Jinivus wrote: Idra's philosophy : Don't practice effectively and get owned by superior players Please fanboys with your immature rage, get more popular, make $$$
Please stop talking you obviously know nothing about IdrA or his results and are just worthlessly spouting off opinions.
On August 12 2011 11:49 bunnymuncher wrote: I think Idra's problem was that he wasnt getting to tier 3 fast enough.
As for the kids complaining about the rage, it's an entertainment business. It brings popularity. The game would not be fun without having a few "bad guys".
Idra clearly outplayed mana, protoss just has a much easier time setting up a strong unit composition while turtling. So boring to watch. Idra should have taken this.
So outplayed equals forgetting Hive tech and forgetting to send drones to your fourth right?
IdrA "outplayed" Mana because he is able to make 10 drones at once, so Mana making only one probe per nexus means that IdrA is super outmacroing him with his awesome macro god skills. Because it's not like it's common for the zerg to have far more drones at that point of the game or anything.
On August 12 2011 11:47 Loki57 wrote: 15000 more resources spent in both of the last games and he loses T_T
yup, thats how it goes when you obviously dont follow ZvP metagame... roach-corruptor have never been cost effective against stalker - collosi. The problem is that Idra just wants to macro and a-move and infestors and blingdrops requires to much micro for him.. thats what I think atleast. Most of the games I see him play in ZvP is him making a bunch of roaches and hydras and a-moves. Remember Idra vs MC in MLG ..... Idra didnt micro for shit and MC was able to win from a 60 supply disadvantage due to just that.
You're funny, because idra actually beat mana doing baneling drops in NASL. Watch more games.
On August 12 2011 11:46 Heavenly wrote: Step one: make mass roaches and amove Step two: rage at the game when it doesn't work
Step one : sit on 3 bases and mass colosssus/stalker
Step two : a-move
Would you mass roach vs mass banshee? Why not?
Idra was just passive-aggressively playing bad, maybe even consciously to look like a martyr. I'll admit I still think P has an advantage in PvZ but not THAT much of an advantage. I've seen Zergs roll over that Protoss playstyle, making it look stupid and flimsy.
On August 12 2011 11:47 Loki57 wrote: 15000 more resources spent in both of the last games and he loses T_T
yup, thats how it goes when you obviously dont follow ZvP metagame... roach-corruptor have never been cost effective against stalker - collosi. The problem is that Idra just wants to macro and a-move and infestors and blingdrops requires to much micro for him.. thats what I think atleast. Most of the games I see him play in ZvP is him making a bunch of roaches and hydras and a-moves. Remember Idra vs MC in MLG ..... Idra didnt micro for shit and MC was able to win from a 60 supply disadvantage due to just that.
You're funny, because idra actually beat mana doing baneling drops in NASL. Watch more games.
I agree with the roach/hydra being out of style, which is why I was sad at the fact that he had so much more money and still managed to lose lol. He did indeed beat mana with a different style in the NASL but I don't know if shakuras or crevasse are very good maps for that kind of ling/bane play. Either way, I'm severely disappointed ;/
On August 12 2011 11:51 esc0bar wrote: whats really funny is that it puts idra's spoilers he was talking about with sheth in a brand new light, bla potential spoiler bla
So because you think you go spoiled you now try to do it for everyone else? Fuck you.
On August 12 2011 11:49 bunnymuncher wrote: I think Idra's problem was that he wasnt getting to tier 3 fast enough.
As for the kids complaining about the rage, it's an entertainment business. It brings popularity. The game would not be fun without having a few "bad guys".
Idra clearly outplayed mana, protoss just has a much easier time setting up a strong unit composition while turtling. So boring to watch. Idra should have taken this.
I don't understand why anyone would criticize Mana for turtling given how aggressive and low-tier Idra was playing.
On August 12 2011 11:53 I_Love_Bacon wrote: I'm amused that there are 10x more mentions of "fanboy" than people complaining about ZvP. Stop spouting that stupid line.
thank you, I couldn't have said it better. some people are acting dumb but disregarding something someone says by calling them a fanboy is ridiculous, have an actual argument or don't say anything
Hmm..usually I don't care if IdrA doesn't gg out of a game (cept against Boxer ), but I straight @#$% You! is completely unnecessary in a pro game...
I do support the people saying that this game was played a very long time ago though, so "maybe" infestors weren't as prevalent (I can't remember). But IdrA hasn't really been playing anything dominant since Columbus.
On August 12 2011 11:51 esc0bar wrote: whats really funny is that it puts idra's spoilers he was talking about with sheth in a brand new light, bla potential spoiler bla
So because you think you go spoiled you now try to do it for everyone else? Fuck you.
On August 12 2011 11:53 jarrydesque wrote: Disgusting behavior. I really do wish that there were repercussions for this sort of thing.
EG gives bonuses to their players when they say something stupid or get physically injured
Yeah eg can do whatever they want, but IPL just could ban idra from their league. Maybe he starts thinking then. I very much doubt idra would have said that in person. just a little sad kid...
Even though I'm fully aware these games are trash and there are way better ways to play ZvP, I still think it's pretty silly how roaches cost the same 2 food blink stalkers do when one is infinitely more effective.
On August 12 2011 11:56 PartyBiscuit wrote: Hmm..usually I don't care if IdrA doesn't gg out of a game (cept against Boxer ), but I straight @#$% You! is completely unnecessary in a pro game...
I do support the people saying that this game was played a very long time ago though, so "maybe" infestors weren't as prevalent (I can't remember). But IdrA hasn't really been playing anything dominant since Columbus.
On August 12 2011 11:49 bunnymuncher wrote: I think Idra's problem was that he wasnt getting to tier 3 fast enough.
As for the kids complaining about the rage, it's an entertainment business. It brings popularity. The game would not be fun without having a few "bad guys".
Idra clearly outplayed mana, protoss just has a much easier time setting up a strong unit composition while turtling. So boring to watch. Idra should have taken this.
I don't understand why anyone would criticize Mana for turtling given how aggressive and low-tier Idra was playing.
Pretty much this, Mana was cool as a cucumber laying back and letting Idra rage attack him and do horrendous trades for nothing.
On August 12 2011 11:51 Namkung wrote: it's actually pathetic that idra would type something like that. just absolutely ridiculous lol.. saying no gg is one thing. and really that is quite bad enough imo but to say something like that to another player is just .. im speechless.
You must be appalled by any pro sport.
Didn't realise talking shit is an integral part of competing on a professional level, thanks for the heads-up.
On August 12 2011 11:53 I_Love_Bacon wrote: I'm amused that there are 10x more mentions of "fanboy" than people complaining about ZvP. Stop spouting that stupid line.
Yeah that's just what happens in internet communities, the hivemind mentality takes over and people start spouting mightier than thou troll-isms without actually reading what's going on.
I try to ignore it but you put it very eloquently.
On August 12 2011 11:47 Loki57 wrote: 15000 more resources spent in both of the last games and he loses T_T
yup, thats how it goes when you obviously dont follow ZvP metagame... roach-corruptor have never been cost effective against stalker - collosi. The problem is that Idra just wants to macro and a-move and infestors and blingdrops requires to much micro for him.. thats what I think atleast. Most of the games I see him play in ZvP is him making a bunch of roaches and hydras and a-moves. Remember Idra vs MC in MLG ..... Idra didnt micro for shit and MC was able to win from a 60 supply disadvantage due to just that.
You're funny, because idra actually beat mana doing baneling drops in NASL. Watch more games.
Yup, thats a game Ive missed... but my point is still valid, he extremly rarely uses a different tactic against toss. when there is a comp that actually has the potential to be costeffective for the zerg against the deathball you should probably try to use it more then Idra does... I have seen most likely 20+ ZvPs from him in tourneys and more on stream and I cant recall seeing him do this anytime at all.
On August 12 2011 11:53 jarrydesque wrote: Disgusting behavior. I really do wish that there were repercussions for this sort of thing.
EG gives bonuses to their players when they say something stupid or get physically injured
Yeah eg can do whatever they want, but IPL just could ban idra from their league. Maybe he starts thinking then. I very much doubt idra would have said that in person. just a little pathetic nerd...
So then you go on to call him names behind your keyboard. Would you say that to him in person?
On August 12 2011 11:51 esc0bar wrote: whats really funny is that it puts idra's spoilers he was talking about with sheth in a brand new light, bla potential spoiler bla
So because you think you go spoiled you now try to do it for everyone else? Fuck you.
you're almost as bm as idra there buddy
Well you are more deserving then Mana, thats for sure. How about you edit your post?
On August 12 2011 11:47 Loki57 wrote: 15000 more resources spent in both of the last games and he loses T_T
yup, thats how it goes when you obviously dont follow ZvP metagame... roach-corruptor have never been cost effective against stalker - collosi. The problem is that Idra just wants to macro and a-move and infestors and blingdrops requires to much micro for him.. thats what I think atleast. Most of the games I see him play in ZvP is him making a bunch of roaches and hydras and a-moves. Remember Idra vs MC in MLG ..... Idra didnt micro for shit and MC was able to win from a 60 supply disadvantage due to just that.
You're funny, because idra actually beat mana doing baneling drops in NASL. Watch more games.
So why he keeps making roach hydra corruptor? I remember that game, Idra played amazing in that NASL series, but now he keeps making an old/non cost effective unit composition?
I like Idra but here he crossed the limit. He has no right to bm Mana just becouse he played like crap. He kept making ings vs 2-3 Colossi. Did he pretende to be cost effective? That guy has something wrong.
On August 12 2011 11:53 I_Love_Bacon wrote: I'm amused that there are 10x more mentions of "fanboy" than people complaining about ZvP. Stop spouting that stupid line.
thank you, I couldn't have said it better. some people are acting dumb but disregarding something someone says by calling them a fanboy is ridiculous, have an actual argument or don't say anything
Correct, Ad homineming is bad and stupid no matter what the argument.
On August 12 2011 11:49 bunnymuncher wrote: I think Idra's problem was that he wasnt getting to tier 3 fast enough.
As for the kids complaining about the rage, it's an entertainment business. It brings popularity. The game would not be fun without having a few "bad guys".
Idra clearly outplayed mana, protoss just has a much easier time setting up a strong unit composition while turtling. So boring to watch. Idra should have taken this.
I don't understand why anyone would criticize Mana for turtling given how aggressive and low-tier Idra was playing.
Pretty much this, Mana was cool as a cucumber laying back and letting Idra rage attack him and do horrendous trades for nothing.
Especially if you know that Idra is going to tilt if you play like this. edit: wow, that is a wasted 2k post :D Sooo: gogo whitera and bring us some good entertaiment! <3
Wow, Idra gets -1 fan here after that abysmal display. Leaves in game 4 after being equal or ahead (if he took out the warpgate research), then blames imba in game 5, then BMs his opponent, gg Idra. Man up and watch your own games son.
I will also note, since this was some time ago and most people weren't around for it, there is history between MaNa and IdrA that dates back to a BW league/tourny. I'm in no means justifying, but just stating a fact for the record.
On August 12 2011 11:56 Ultramus wrote: Even though I'm fully aware these games are trash and there are way better ways to play ZvP, I still think it's pretty silly how roaches cost the same 2 food blink stalkers do when one is infinitely more effective.
I think it's pretty silly how roaches cost half of what a stalker does, scales better with upgrades, and in medium-small numbers can easily win engagements. And how the race capable of getting more income much faster has such a powerful early game unit they can mass. Now you expect that unit to also be as powerful in the late-game by massing that unit solely? the reason a stalker ball wins is because of superior range in large army confrontations, not because they're better units without blink.
On August 12 2011 11:53 jarrydesque wrote: Disgusting behavior. I really do wish that there were repercussions for this sort of thing.
EG gives bonuses to their players when they say something stupid or get physically injured
Yeah eg can do whatever they want, but IPL just could ban idra from their league. Maybe he starts thinking then. I very much doubt idra would have said that in person. just a little pathetic nerd...
So then you go on to call him names behind your keyboard. Would you say that to him in person?
Actually idra is an exception to that rule, he's known for swearing at or BM'ing people at LANS too....
I won't be surprised if one day he gets beaten up pretty bad.
On August 12 2011 11:51 Namkung wrote: it's actually pathetic that idra would type something like that. just absolutely ridiculous lol.. saying no gg is one thing. and really that is quite bad enough imo but to say something like that to another player is just .. im speechless.
You must be appalled by any pro sport.
so you don't see anything wrong with what just happened there am i right? lol
Anyone else notice that Totalbiscuit said after Game 3 that he thought Idra was probably on tilt?
This is cast from Replays right? So obviously, and I thought this at the time, TB had some insider information there.
Could be wrong, but I thought the comment was odd by TB when he said it... and now its a bit suspicious since Idra obviously was very tilted in the 4th and 5th games.
No Zerg's are rolling over a Toss that turtles properly on 3 base. Sorry, but that just isn't true. The DPS out of the Colossus is just too much when there more than just a couple. Add to that the ability to outrange everything, and then hold them there with force fields means there isn't much that you can do. The corrupter is a pathetic unit(even dustin browder has admitted this), but you need them to kill the colossus(arguably they are bad at that too with their short range). So you end up with supply that you can't use.
Mixing in Hydras would not have changed that, at a certain point they'll have enough blink stalkers to rotate them well enough so that they are much more cost effective.
On August 12 2011 12:00 dsousa wrote: Anyone else notice that Totalbiscuit said after Game 3 that he thought Idra was probably on tilt?
This is cast from Replays right? So obviously, and I thought this at the time, TB had some insider information there.
Could be wrong, but I thought the comment was odd by TB when he said it... and now its a bit suspicious since Idra obviously was very tilted in the 4th and 5th games.
He says it every time Idra loses. Try not to pay to much attention to what he spouts on about
On August 12 2011 11:56 Ultramus wrote: Even though I'm fully aware these games are trash and there are way better ways to play ZvP, I still think it's pretty silly how roaches cost the same 2 food blink stalkers do when one is infinitely more effective.
DT's cost the same supply as zealots *MIND BLOWN*
But seriously, supply does not mean something is good, there are units that are supply efficient but expensive, and supply inefficient but cheap, trading your supply inefficient for supply efficient once you get to maxxed is part of the strategy of the game.
Banelings are another good example, a ling is 0.5 supply, so is a baneling, the only difference is the investment of time and resources.
On August 12 2011 12:00 FighterHayabusa wrote: No Zerg's are rolling over a Toss that turtles properly on 3 base. Sorry, but that just isn't true. The DPS out of the Colossus is just too much when there more than just a couple. Add to that the ability to outrange everything, and then hold them there with force fields means there isn't much that you can do. The corrupter is a pathetic unit(even dustin browder has admitted this), but you need them to kill the colossus(arguably they are bad at that too with their short range). So you end up with supply that you can't use.
Mixing in Hydras would not have changed that, at a certain point they'll have enough blink stalkers to rotate them well enough so that they are much more cost effective.
lolz. I know right, look at all that PvZ dominance in the GSL, and the two best foreigner protoss that were outside of Korea losing to mediocre zergs in Code A ro32.
On August 12 2011 12:00 FighterHayabusa wrote: No Zerg's are rolling over a Toss that turtles properly on 3 base. Sorry, but that just isn't true. The DPS out of the Colossus is just too much when there more than just a couple. Add to that the ability to outrange everything, and then hold them there with force fields means there isn't much that you can do. The corrupter is a pathetic unit(even dustin browder has admitted this), but you need them to kill the colossus(arguably they are bad at that too with their short range). So you end up with supply that you can't use.
Mixing in Hydras would not have changed that, at a certain point they'll have enough blink stalkers to rotate them well enough so that they are much more cost effective.
On August 12 2011 11:56 Ultramus wrote: Even though I'm fully aware these games are trash and there are way better ways to play ZvP, I still think it's pretty silly how roaches cost the same 2 food blink stalkers do when one is infinitely more effective.
I think it's pretty silly how roaches cost half of what a stalker does, scales better with upgrades, and in medium-small numbers can easily win engagements. And how the race capable of getting more income much faster has such a powerful early game unit they can mass. Now you expect that unit to also be as powerful in the late-game by massing that unit solely? the reason a stalker ball wins is because of superior range in large army confrontations, not because they're better units without blink.
The early game econ advantage Zerg can gain is nullified by two things for Toss:
1. Most are melee units so a wall will stop them; and, 2. Force fields will keep roaches at bay.
The biggest issue for Zerg is one of cost efficacy. The problem is that this is fine in the early to mid game, but you cannot continue that economic lead into the late game. At some point you have to stop making drones or you won't have an army. That is what you saw in these games. As the game goes longer the ability to wage a battle where your units aren't cost effective declines as your opponent approaches your income.
On August 12 2011 11:53 jarrydesque wrote: Disgusting behavior. I really do wish that there were repercussions for this sort of thing.
EG gives bonuses to their players when they say something stupid or get physically injured
Yeah eg can do whatever they want, but IPL just could ban idra from their league. Maybe he starts thinking then. I very much doubt idra would have said that in person. just a little pathetic nerd...
So then you go on to call him names behind your keyboard. Would you say that to him in person?
If he told me to fuck myself unprovoked, I'd punch him in his face.
Note to Terrans: Don't land your Vikings when there are 3 Colossus chilling next door.
I see what Strelok was thinking there though, landing the vikings because the Colossus weren't even engaged in the fight, figured he could ignore them since they weren't attacking. Unfortunatly for him that was all apart of White-Ra's specal tectics, epic mindgames indeed.
On August 12 2011 11:56 Ultramus wrote: Even though I'm fully aware these games are trash and there are way better ways to play ZvP, I still think it's pretty silly how roaches cost the same 2 food blink stalkers do when one is infinitely more effective.
I think it's pretty silly how roaches cost half of what a stalker does, scales better with upgrades, and in medium-small numbers can easily win engagements. And how the race capable of getting more income much faster has such a powerful early game unit they can mass. Now you expect that unit to also be as powerful in the late-game by massing that unit solely? the reason a stalker ball wins is because of superior range in large army confrontations, not because they're better units without blink.
The early game econ advantage Zerg can gain is nullified by two things for Toss:
1. Most are melee units so a wall will stop them; and, 2. Force fields will keep roaches at bay.
The biggest issue for Zerg is one of cost efficacy. The problem is that this is fine in the early to mid game, but you cannot continue that economic lead into the late game. At some point you have to stop making drones or you won't have an army. That is what you saw in these games. As the game goes longer the ability to wage a battle where your units aren't cost effective declines as your opponent approaches your income.
Lol i don't know what you were watching but i saw a roach ling into roach hydra against a large stalker collossus ball. I saw an infestation pit but no infestors or hive tech. I saw a 20min game with IdrA ramming roaches down MaNa's blink micro and colossus and never sniping any colossus.
On August 12 2011 11:53 jarrydesque wrote: Disgusting behavior. I really do wish that there were repercussions for this sort of thing.
EG gives bonuses to their players when they say something stupid or get physically injured
Yeah eg can do whatever they want, but IPL just could ban idra from their league. Maybe he starts thinking then. I very much doubt idra would have said that in person. just a little pathetic nerd...
So then you go on to call him names behind your keyboard. Would you say that to him in person?
If he told me to fuck myself unprovoked, I'd punch him in his face.
On August 12 2011 12:00 FighterHayabusa wrote: No Zerg's are rolling over a Toss that turtles properly on 3 base. Sorry, but that just isn't true. The DPS out of the Colossus is just too much when there more than just a couple. Add to that the ability to outrange everything, and then hold them there with force fields means there isn't much that you can do. The corrupter is a pathetic unit(even dustin browder has admitted this), but you need them to kill the colossus(arguably they are bad at that too with their short range). So you end up with supply that you can't use.
Mixing in Hydras would not have changed that, at a certain point they'll have enough blink stalkers to rotate them well enough so that they are much more cost effective.
Good luck getting a Neural against someone who is turtling effectively. The Toss would have to make a mistake to get good neurals. The entire point is that it is their game to lose, and not yours to win. That is a large distinction.
On August 12 2011 11:53 jarrydesque wrote: Disgusting behavior. I really do wish that there were repercussions for this sort of thing.
EG gives bonuses to their players when they say something stupid or get physically injured
Yeah eg can do whatever they want, but IPL just could ban idra from their league. Maybe he starts thinking then. I very much doubt idra would have said that in person. just a little pathetic nerd...
So then you go on to call him names behind your keyboard. Would you say that to him in person?
Actually idra is an exception to that rule, he's known for swearing at or BM'ing people at LANS too....
I won't be surprised if one day he gets beaten up pretty bad.
On August 12 2011 11:56 Ultramus wrote: Even though I'm fully aware these games are trash and there are way better ways to play ZvP, I still think it's pretty silly how roaches cost the same 2 food blink stalkers do when one is infinitely more effective.
I think it's pretty silly how roaches cost half of what a stalker does, scales better with upgrades, and in medium-small numbers can easily win engagements. And how the race capable of getting more income much faster has such a powerful early game unit they can mass. Now you expect that unit to also be as powerful in the late-game by massing that unit solely? the reason a stalker ball wins is because of superior range in large army confrontations, not because they're better units without blink.
The early game econ advantage Zerg can gain is nullified by two things for Toss:
1. Most are melee units so a wall will stop them; and, 2. Force fields will keep roaches at bay.
The biggest issue for Zerg is one of cost efficacy. The problem is that this is fine in the early to mid game, but you cannot continue that economic lead into the late game. At some point you have to stop making drones or you won't have an army. That is what you saw in these games. As the game goes longer the ability to wage a battle where your units aren't cost effective declines as your opponent approaches your income.
Lol i don't know what you were watching but i saw a roach ling into roach hydra against a large stalker collossus ball. I saw an infestation pit but no infestors or hive tech. I saw a 20min game with IdrA ramming roaches down MaNa's blink micro and colossus and never sniping any colossus.
But maybe that was a different game?
He killed all but one colossi at one point actually.
On August 12 2011 11:56 Ultramus wrote: Even though I'm fully aware these games are trash and there are way better ways to play ZvP, I still think it's pretty silly how roaches cost the same 2 food blink stalkers do when one is infinitely more effective.
I think it's pretty silly how roaches cost half of what a stalker does, scales better with upgrades, and in medium-small numbers can easily win engagements. And how the race capable of getting more income much faster has such a powerful early game unit they can mass. Now you expect that unit to also be as powerful in the late-game by massing that unit solely? the reason a stalker ball wins is because of superior range in large army confrontations, not because they're better units without blink.
The early game econ advantage Zerg can gain is nullified by two things for Toss:
1. Most are melee units so a wall will stop them; and, 2. Force fields will keep roaches at bay.
The biggest issue for Zerg is one of cost efficacy. The problem is that this is fine in the early to mid game, but you cannot continue that economic lead into the late game. At some point you have to stop making drones or you won't have an army. That is what you saw in these games. As the game goes longer the ability to wage a battle where your units aren't cost effective declines as your opponent approaches your income.
Lol i don't know what you were watching but i saw a roach ling into roach hydra against a large stalker collossus ball. I saw an infestation pit but no infestors or hive tech. I saw a 20min game with IdrA ramming roaches down MaNa's blink micro and colossus and never sniping any colossus.
But maybe that was a different game?
He killed all but one colossi at one point actually.
That was like the 4th engagement. Can't just ignore the ones before that.
On August 12 2011 12:00 FighterHayabusa wrote: No Zerg's are rolling over a Toss that turtles properly on 3 base. Sorry, but that just isn't true. The DPS out of the Colossus is just too much when there more than just a couple. Add to that the ability to outrange everything, and then hold them there with force fields means there isn't much that you can do. The corrupter is a pathetic unit(even dustin browder has admitted this), but you need them to kill the colossus(arguably they are bad at that too with their short range). So you end up with supply that you can't use.
Mixing in Hydras would not have changed that, at a certain point they'll have enough blink stalkers to rotate them well enough so that they are much more cost effective.
Good luck getting a Neural against someone who is turtling effectively. The Toss would have to make a mistake to get good neurals. The entire point is that it is their game to lose, and not yours to win. That is a large distinction.
if this was played right now that everyone has figured out that it's impossible to lose versus 3base turtle I don't think mana would have gotten one game
On August 12 2011 11:56 Ultramus wrote: Even though I'm fully aware these games are trash and there are way better ways to play ZvP, I still think it's pretty silly how roaches cost the same 2 food blink stalkers do when one is infinitely more effective.
I think it's pretty silly how roaches cost half of what a stalker does, scales better with upgrades, and in medium-small numbers can easily win engagements. And how the race capable of getting more income much faster has such a powerful early game unit they can mass. Now you expect that unit to also be as powerful in the late-game by massing that unit solely? the reason a stalker ball wins is because of superior range in large army confrontations, not because they're better units without blink.
The early game econ advantage Zerg can gain is nullified by two things for Toss:
1. Most are melee units so a wall will stop them; and, 2. Force fields will keep roaches at bay.
The biggest issue for Zerg is one of cost efficacy. The problem is that this is fine in the early to mid game, but you cannot continue that economic lead into the late game. At some point you have to stop making drones or you won't have an army. That is what you saw in these games. As the game goes longer the ability to wage a battle where your units aren't cost effective declines as your opponent approaches your income.
Lol i don't know what you were watching but i saw a roach ling into roach hydra against a large stalker collossus ball. I saw an infestation pit but no infestors or hive tech. I saw a 20min game with IdrA ramming roaches down MaNa's blink micro and colossus and never sniping any colossus.
But maybe that was a different game?
He killed all but one colossi at one point actually.
That was like the 4th engagement. Can't just ignore the ones before that.
....but that was him killing colossi which is what you said didnt happen.
On August 12 2011 11:56 Ultramus wrote: Even though I'm fully aware these games are trash and there are way better ways to play ZvP, I still think it's pretty silly how roaches cost the same 2 food blink stalkers do when one is infinitely more effective.
I think it's pretty silly how roaches cost half of what a stalker does, scales better with upgrades, and in medium-small numbers can easily win engagements. And how the race capable of getting more income much faster has such a powerful early game unit they can mass. Now you expect that unit to also be as powerful in the late-game by massing that unit solely? the reason a stalker ball wins is because of superior range in large army confrontations, not because they're better units without blink.
The early game econ advantage Zerg can gain is nullified by two things for Toss:
1. Most are melee units so a wall will stop them; and, 2. Force fields will keep roaches at bay.
The biggest issue for Zerg is one of cost efficacy. The problem is that this is fine in the early to mid game, but you cannot continue that economic lead into the late game. At some point you have to stop making drones or you won't have an army. That is what you saw in these games. As the game goes longer the ability to wage a battle where your units aren't cost effective declines as your opponent approaches your income.
Lol i don't know what you were watching but i saw a roach ling into roach hydra against a large stalker collossus ball. I saw an infestation pit but no infestors or hive tech. I saw a 20min game with IdrA ramming roaches down MaNa's blink micro and colossus and never sniping any colossus.
But maybe that was a different game?
He killed all but one colossi at one point actually.
On August 12 2011 11:56 Ultramus wrote: Even though I'm fully aware these games are trash and there are way better ways to play ZvP, I still think it's pretty silly how roaches cost the same 2 food blink stalkers do when one is infinitely more effective.
I think it's pretty silly how roaches cost half of what a stalker does, scales better with upgrades, and in medium-small numbers can easily win engagements. And how the race capable of getting more income much faster has such a powerful early game unit they can mass. Now you expect that unit to also be as powerful in the late-game by massing that unit solely? the reason a stalker ball wins is because of superior range in large army confrontations, not because they're better units without blink.
The early game econ advantage Zerg can gain is nullified by two things for Toss:
1. Most are melee units so a wall will stop them; and, 2. Force fields will keep roaches at bay.
The biggest issue for Zerg is one of cost efficacy. The problem is that this is fine in the early to mid game, but you cannot continue that economic lead into the late game. At some point you have to stop making drones or you won't have an army. That is what you saw in these games. As the game goes longer the ability to wage a battle where your units aren't cost effective declines as your opponent approaches your income.
you are absolutely correct, a roach/hydra comp is not cost effective against toss endgame even with corruptors to handle collosi. If your gonna do this you need to keep the collosicount down alot while maintaining a supplylead. This is not something as a zergplayer you will win a majority of the games using. There is though the unit called the infestor that has proven to add cost effectivity to the zerg even in ZvP. Claiming that the zerg as a race have a hard time being costeffective is wrong, that comp is the problem and something most zergs stopped using a long time ago in lategame.
Broodlords can aswell be probably the most costeffective unit in the game... why not use it?
it seems like zerg is turning more towards micro based strats with the deathball becoming so well refined lol. seems like you can't win without baneling drops or infestors nowadays.
On August 12 2011 12:00 FighterHayabusa wrote: No Zerg's are rolling over a Toss that turtles properly on 3 base. Sorry, but that just isn't true. The DPS out of the Colossus is just too much when there more than just a couple. Add to that the ability to outrange everything, and then hold them there with force fields means there isn't much that you can do. The corrupter is a pathetic unit(even dustin browder has admitted this), but you need them to kill the colossus(arguably they are bad at that too with their short range). So you end up with supply that you can't use.
Mixing in Hydras would not have changed that, at a certain point they'll have enough blink stalkers to rotate them well enough so that they are much more cost effective.
lolz. I know right, look at all that PvZ dominance in the GSL, and the two best foreigner protoss that were outside of Korea losing to mediocre zergs in Code A ro32.
Lolz they aren't letting them get 3+ bases and turtle into Colossus
On August 12 2011 11:56 Ultramus wrote: Even though I'm fully aware these games are trash and there are way better ways to play ZvP, I still think it's pretty silly how roaches cost the same 2 food blink stalkers do when one is infinitely more effective.
I think it's pretty silly how roaches cost half of what a stalker does, scales better with upgrades, and in medium-small numbers can easily win engagements. And how the race capable of getting more income much faster has such a powerful early game unit they can mass. Now you expect that unit to also be as powerful in the late-game by massing that unit solely? the reason a stalker ball wins is because of superior range in large army confrontations, not because they're better units without blink.
The early game econ advantage Zerg can gain is nullified by two things for Toss:
1. Most are melee units so a wall will stop them; and, 2. Force fields will keep roaches at bay.
The biggest issue for Zerg is one of cost efficacy. The problem is that this is fine in the early to mid game, but you cannot continue that economic lead into the late game. At some point you have to stop making drones or you won't have an army. That is what you saw in these games. As the game goes longer the ability to wage a battle where your units aren't cost effective declines as your opponent approaches your income.
Lol i don't know what you were watching but i saw a roach ling into roach hydra against a large stalker collossus ball. I saw an infestation pit but no infestors or hive tech. I saw a 20min game with IdrA ramming roaches down MaNa's blink micro and colossus and never sniping any colossus.
But maybe that was a different game?
Critically, we couldn't see this, but Apollo was saying that Idra wasn't getting the gases at his expansions and pointed that out as a mistake - which was probably the reason why Idra wasn't able to get to the more gas intensive units.
On August 12 2011 12:00 FighterHayabusa wrote: No Zerg's are rolling over a Toss that turtles properly on 3 base. Sorry, but that just isn't true. The DPS out of the Colossus is just too much when there more than just a couple. Add to that the ability to outrange everything, and then hold them there with force fields means there isn't much that you can do. The corrupter is a pathetic unit(even dustin browder has admitted this), but you need them to kill the colossus(arguably they are bad at that too with their short range). So you end up with supply that you can't use.
Mixing in Hydras would not have changed that, at a certain point they'll have enough blink stalkers to rotate them well enough so that they are much more cost effective.
Good luck getting a Neural against someone who is turtling effectively. The Toss would have to make a mistake to get good neurals. The entire point is that it is their game to lose, and not yours to win. That is a large distinction.
I actually agree with you on the point that it is Protoss's game to lose, but I have seen games where Zerg neurals colossi and makes the Toss deathball look like it's made of paper mache - games where the Protoss doesn't make any real mistakes, it's Zerg deathball vs Protoss deathball, the Infestors aren't as easily sniped as you think when there are 20-30 roaches tanking for them much better than usual because the Colossi are shooting at their own stalkers.
On August 12 2011 12:00 FighterHayabusa wrote: No Zerg's are rolling over a Toss that turtles properly on 3 base. Sorry, but that just isn't true. The DPS out of the Colossus is just too much when there more than just a couple. Add to that the ability to outrange everything, and then hold them there with force fields means there isn't much that you can do. The corrupter is a pathetic unit(even dustin browder has admitted this), but you need them to kill the colossus(arguably they are bad at that too with their short range). So you end up with supply that you can't use.
Mixing in Hydras would not have changed that, at a certain point they'll have enough blink stalkers to rotate them well enough so that they are much more cost effective.
On August 12 2011 11:56 Ultramus wrote: Even though I'm fully aware these games are trash and there are way better ways to play ZvP, I still think it's pretty silly how roaches cost the same 2 food blink stalkers do when one is infinitely more effective.
I think it's pretty silly how roaches cost half of what a stalker does, scales better with upgrades, and in medium-small numbers can easily win engagements. And how the race capable of getting more income much faster has such a powerful early game unit they can mass. Now you expect that unit to also be as powerful in the late-game by massing that unit solely? the reason a stalker ball wins is because of superior range in large army confrontations, not because they're better units without blink.
The early game econ advantage Zerg can gain is nullified by two things for Toss:
1. Most are melee units so a wall will stop them; and, 2. Force fields will keep roaches at bay.
The biggest issue for Zerg is one of cost efficacy. The problem is that this is fine in the early to mid game, but you cannot continue that economic lead into the late game. At some point you have to stop making drones or you won't have an army. That is what you saw in these games. As the game goes longer the ability to wage a battle where your units aren't cost effective declines as your opponent approaches your income.
you are absolutely correct, a roach/hydra comp is not cost effective against toss endgame even with corruptors to handle collosi. If your gonna do this you need to keep the collosicount down alot while maintaining a supplylead. This is not something as a zergplayer you will win a majority of the games using. There is though the unit called the infestor that has proven to add cost effectivity to the zerg even in ZvP. Claiming that the zerg as a race have a hard time being costeffective is wrong, that comp is the problem and something most zergs stopped using a long time ago in lategame.
Broodlords can aswell be probably the most costeffective unit in the game... why not use it?
I like the mental image of Tasteless and Artosis sitting in one of their apartments casting these games because they love it. Tasteless even sounds much more relaxed than at the Gom studio which makes this cast even more enjoyable (also Artosis nice as usual). ♥
On August 12 2011 11:56 Ultramus wrote: Even though I'm fully aware these games are trash and there are way better ways to play ZvP, I still think it's pretty silly how roaches cost the same 2 food blink stalkers do when one is infinitely more effective.
I think it's pretty silly how roaches cost half of what a stalker does, scales better with upgrades, and in medium-small numbers can easily win engagements. And how the race capable of getting more income much faster has such a powerful early game unit they can mass. Now you expect that unit to also be as powerful in the late-game by massing that unit solely? the reason a stalker ball wins is because of superior range in large army confrontations, not because they're better units without blink.
The early game econ advantage Zerg can gain is nullified by two things for Toss:
1. Most are melee units so a wall will stop them; and, 2. Force fields will keep roaches at bay.
The biggest issue for Zerg is one of cost efficacy. The problem is that this is fine in the early to mid game, but you cannot continue that economic lead into the late game. At some point you have to stop making drones or you won't have an army. That is what you saw in these games. As the game goes longer the ability to wage a battle where your units aren't cost effective declines as your opponent approaches your income.
Lol i don't know what you were watching but i saw a roach ling into roach hydra against a large stalker collossus ball. I saw an infestation pit but no infestors or hive tech. I saw a 20min game with IdrA ramming roaches down MaNa's blink micro and colossus and never sniping any colossus.
But maybe that was a different game?
He killed all but one colossi at one point actually.
That was like the 4th engagement. Can't just ignore the ones before that.
....but that was him killing colossi which is what you said didnt happen.
He said sniping/target firing not just killing. When you just keep Attack moving into an army with superior numbers the colossi will fall...
On August 12 2011 12:00 FighterHayabusa wrote: No Zerg's are rolling over a Toss that turtles properly on 3 base. Sorry, but that just isn't true. The DPS out of the Colossus is just too much when there more than just a couple. Add to that the ability to outrange everything, and then hold them there with force fields means there isn't much that you can do. The corrupter is a pathetic unit(even dustin browder has admitted this), but you need them to kill the colossus(arguably they are bad at that too with their short range). So you end up with supply that you can't use.
Mixing in Hydras would not have changed that, at a certain point they'll have enough blink stalkers to rotate them well enough so that they are much more cost effective.
Good luck getting a Neural against someone who is turtling effectively. The Toss would have to make a mistake to get good neurals. The entire point is that it is their game to lose, and not yours to win. That is a large distinction.
you dont a-move roach/corruptor against a toss turtnling effectivly either.. you expand all around the place and tech to hive. NP works fine if u have enough to buffer the infestors anyways.
On August 12 2011 11:56 Ultramus wrote: Even though I'm fully aware these games are trash and there are way better ways to play ZvP, I still think it's pretty silly how roaches cost the same 2 food blink stalkers do when one is infinitely more effective.
I think it's pretty silly how roaches cost half of what a stalker does, scales better with upgrades, and in medium-small numbers can easily win engagements. And how the race capable of getting more income much faster has such a powerful early game unit they can mass. Now you expect that unit to also be as powerful in the late-game by massing that unit solely? the reason a stalker ball wins is because of superior range in large army confrontations, not because they're better units without blink.
The early game econ advantage Zerg can gain is nullified by two things for Toss:
1. Most are melee units so a wall will stop them; and, 2. Force fields will keep roaches at bay.
The biggest issue for Zerg is one of cost efficacy. The problem is that this is fine in the early to mid game, but you cannot continue that economic lead into the late game. At some point you have to stop making drones or you won't have an army. That is what you saw in these games. As the game goes longer the ability to wage a battle where your units aren't cost effective declines as your opponent approaches your income.
you are absolutely correct, a roach/hydra comp is not cost effective against toss endgame even with corruptors to handle collosi. If your gonna do this you need to keep the collosicount down alot while maintaining a supplylead. This is not something as a zergplayer you will win a majority of the games using. There is though the unit called the infestor that has proven to add cost effectivity to the zerg even in ZvP. Claiming that the zerg as a race have a hard time being costeffective is wrong, that comp is the problem and something most zergs stopped using a long time ago in lategame.
Broodlords can aswell be probably the most costeffective unit in the game... why not use it?
On August 12 2011 11:56 Ultramus wrote: Even though I'm fully aware these games are trash and there are way better ways to play ZvP, I still think it's pretty silly how roaches cost the same 2 food blink stalkers do when one is infinitely more effective.
I think it's pretty silly how roaches cost half of what a stalker does, scales better with upgrades, and in medium-small numbers can easily win engagements. And how the race capable of getting more income much faster has such a powerful early game unit they can mass. Now you expect that unit to also be as powerful in the late-game by massing that unit solely? the reason a stalker ball wins is because of superior range in large army confrontations, not because they're better units without blink.
The early game econ advantage Zerg can gain is nullified by two things for Toss:
1. Most are melee units so a wall will stop them; and, 2. Force fields will keep roaches at bay.
The biggest issue for Zerg is one of cost efficacy. The problem is that this is fine in the early to mid game, but you cannot continue that economic lead into the late game. At some point you have to stop making drones or you won't have an army. That is what you saw in these games. As the game goes longer the ability to wage a battle where your units aren't cost effective declines as your opponent approaches your income.
you are absolutely correct, a roach/hydra comp is not cost effective against toss endgame even with corruptors to handle collosi. If your gonna do this you need to keep the collosicount down alot while maintaining a supplylead. This is not something as a zergplayer you will win a majority of the games using. There is though the unit called the infestor that has proven to add cost effectivity to the zerg even in ZvP. Claiming that the zerg as a race have a hard time being costeffective is wrong, that comp is the problem and something most zergs stopped using a long time ago in lategame.
Broodlords can aswell be probably the most costeffective unit in the game... why not use it?
BLs are terrible vs Blink stalkers....
well, you probably dont have only BLs... and if you keep them behind your roacharmy the toss is forced to blink over your roaches and that is normally not a move you want to do unless you severly outnumber them. If you choose to not go BLs just cause the toss has Blink Id say you are losing many ZvPs nedlessly... and btw, fungal denies blink so maybe get infestors? U will already have the tech.
On August 12 2011 11:56 Ultramus wrote: Even though I'm fully aware these games are trash and there are way better ways to play ZvP, I still think it's pretty silly how roaches cost the same 2 food blink stalkers do when one is infinitely more effective.
I think it's pretty silly how roaches cost half of what a stalker does, scales better with upgrades, and in medium-small numbers can easily win engagements. And how the race capable of getting more income much faster has such a powerful early game unit they can mass. Now you expect that unit to also be as powerful in the late-game by massing that unit solely? the reason a stalker ball wins is because of superior range in large army confrontations, not because they're better units without blink.
The early game econ advantage Zerg can gain is nullified by two things for Toss:
1. Most are melee units so a wall will stop them; and, 2. Force fields will keep roaches at bay.
The biggest issue for Zerg is one of cost efficacy. The problem is that this is fine in the early to mid game, but you cannot continue that economic lead into the late game. At some point you have to stop making drones or you won't have an army. That is what you saw in these games. As the game goes longer the ability to wage a battle where your units aren't cost effective declines as your opponent approaches your income.
you are absolutely correct, a roach/hydra comp is not cost effective against toss endgame even with corruptors to handle collosi. If your gonna do this you need to keep the collosicount down alot while maintaining a supplylead. This is not something as a zergplayer you will win a majority of the games using. There is though the unit called the infestor that has proven to add cost effectivity to the zerg even in ZvP. Claiming that the zerg as a race have a hard time being costeffective is wrong, that comp is the problem and something most zergs stopped using a long time ago in lategame.
Broodlords can aswell be probably the most costeffective unit in the game... why not use it?
BLs are terrible vs Blink stalkers....
LOOOOOOOL god damn bronze league...
zergs gonna have more than just brood lords. brood lords with just pure lings are amazing.
On August 12 2011 11:56 Ultramus wrote: Even though I'm fully aware these games are trash and there are way better ways to play ZvP, I still think it's pretty silly how roaches cost the same 2 food blink stalkers do when one is infinitely more effective.
I think it's pretty silly how roaches cost half of what a stalker does, scales better with upgrades, and in medium-small numbers can easily win engagements. And how the race capable of getting more income much faster has such a powerful early game unit they can mass. Now you expect that unit to also be as powerful in the late-game by massing that unit solely? the reason a stalker ball wins is because of superior range in large army confrontations, not because they're better units without blink.
The early game econ advantage Zerg can gain is nullified by two things for Toss:
1. Most are melee units so a wall will stop them; and, 2. Force fields will keep roaches at bay.
The biggest issue for Zerg is one of cost efficacy. The problem is that this is fine in the early to mid game, but you cannot continue that economic lead into the late game. At some point you have to stop making drones or you won't have an army. That is what you saw in these games. As the game goes longer the ability to wage a battle where your units aren't cost effective declines as your opponent approaches your income.
Lol i don't know what you were watching but i saw a roach ling into roach hydra against a large stalker collossus ball. I saw an infestation pit but no infestors or hive tech. I saw a 20min game with IdrA ramming roaches down MaNa's blink micro and colossus and never sniping any colossus.
But maybe that was a different game?
He killed all but one colossi at one point actually.
That was like the 4th engagement. Can't just ignore the ones before that.
....but that was him killing colossi which is what you said didnt happen.
Wow; sigh..
So when IdrA was ramming roaches and lings at MaNa's expansion he failed to kill off any collossi after attempting to do so a number of times. He kept attempting that flank and lowered the gateway unit numbers but MaNa could just reinforce (similar to any basic unit of any race). He sat on roach all game and wanders why he lost to tier 3 units.
After seeing the collossi he eventually built up a corruptor force; and lost the engagement and then lost the game.
On August 12 2011 11:56 Ultramus wrote: Even though I'm fully aware these games are trash and there are way better ways to play ZvP, I still think it's pretty silly how roaches cost the same 2 food blink stalkers do when one is infinitely more effective.
I think it's pretty silly how roaches cost half of what a stalker does, scales better with upgrades, and in medium-small numbers can easily win engagements. And how the race capable of getting more income much faster has such a powerful early game unit they can mass. Now you expect that unit to also be as powerful in the late-game by massing that unit solely? the reason a stalker ball wins is because of superior range in large army confrontations, not because they're better units without blink.
The early game econ advantage Zerg can gain is nullified by two things for Toss:
1. Most are melee units so a wall will stop them; and, 2. Force fields will keep roaches at bay.
The biggest issue for Zerg is one of cost efficacy. The problem is that this is fine in the early to mid game, but you cannot continue that economic lead into the late game. At some point you have to stop making drones or you won't have an army. That is what you saw in these games. As the game goes longer the ability to wage a battle where your units aren't cost effective declines as your opponent approaches your income.
you are absolutely correct, a roach/hydra comp is not cost effective against toss endgame even with corruptors to handle collosi. If your gonna do this you need to keep the collosicount down alot while maintaining a supplylead. This is not something as a zergplayer you will win a majority of the games using. There is though the unit called the infestor that has proven to add cost effectivity to the zerg even in ZvP. Claiming that the zerg as a race have a hard time being costeffective is wrong, that comp is the problem and something most zergs stopped using a long time ago in lategame.
Broodlords can aswell be probably the most costeffective unit in the game... why not use it?
BLs are terrible vs Blink stalkers....
Omg.............
Yeah, I'd just ignore him.
Anyway, whitera, prism, special tactics. PEOPLE'S CHAMP
On August 12 2011 12:00 FighterHayabusa wrote: No Zerg's are rolling over a Toss that turtles properly on 3 base. Sorry, but that just isn't true. The DPS out of the Colossus is just too much when there more than just a couple. Add to that the ability to outrange everything, and then hold them there with force fields means there isn't much that you can do. The corrupter is a pathetic unit(even dustin browder has admitted this), but you need them to kill the colossus(arguably they are bad at that too with their short range). So you end up with supply that you can't use.
Mixing in Hydras would not have changed that, at a certain point they'll have enough blink stalkers to rotate them well enough so that they are much more cost effective.
Good luck getting a Neural against someone who is turtling effectively. The Toss would have to make a mistake to get good neurals. The entire point is that it is their game to lose, and not yours to win. That is a large distinction.
you dont a-move roach/corruptor against a toss turtnling effectivly either.. you expand all around the place and tech to hive. NP works fine if u have enough to buffer the infestors anyways.
No, because then you won't control the Colossus numbers. That is what he was trying to do the entire game, but the combination of their range, plus massive DPS, plus force fields made it massively expensive.
On August 12 2011 11:56 Ultramus wrote: Even though I'm fully aware these games are trash and there are way better ways to play ZvP, I still think it's pretty silly how roaches cost the same 2 food blink stalkers do when one is infinitely more effective.
I think it's pretty silly how roaches cost half of what a stalker does, scales better with upgrades, and in medium-small numbers can easily win engagements. And how the race capable of getting more income much faster has such a powerful early game unit they can mass. Now you expect that unit to also be as powerful in the late-game by massing that unit solely? the reason a stalker ball wins is because of superior range in large army confrontations, not because they're better units without blink.
The early game econ advantage Zerg can gain is nullified by two things for Toss:
1. Most are melee units so a wall will stop them; and, 2. Force fields will keep roaches at bay.
The biggest issue for Zerg is one of cost efficacy. The problem is that this is fine in the early to mid game, but you cannot continue that economic lead into the late game. At some point you have to stop making drones or you won't have an army. That is what you saw in these games. As the game goes longer the ability to wage a battle where your units aren't cost effective declines as your opponent approaches your income.
Lol i don't know what you were watching but i saw a roach ling into roach hydra against a large stalker collossus ball. I saw an infestation pit but no infestors or hive tech. I saw a 20min game with IdrA ramming roaches down MaNa's blink micro and colossus and never sniping any colossus.
But maybe that was a different game?
He killed all but one colossi at one point actually.
That was like the 4th engagement. Can't just ignore the ones before that.
....but that was him killing colossi which is what you said didnt happen.
He said sniping/target firing not just killing. When you just keep Attack moving into an army with superior numbers the colossi will fall...
So he has to kill a bunch of colossi while taking no damage or something? That's not going to happen unless the toss cant control his units.
On August 12 2011 11:56 Ultramus wrote: Even though I'm fully aware these games are trash and there are way better ways to play ZvP, I still think it's pretty silly how roaches cost the same 2 food blink stalkers do when one is infinitely more effective.
I think it's pretty silly how roaches cost half of what a stalker does, scales better with upgrades, and in medium-small numbers can easily win engagements. And how the race capable of getting more income much faster has such a powerful early game unit they can mass. Now you expect that unit to also be as powerful in the late-game by massing that unit solely? the reason a stalker ball wins is because of superior range in large army confrontations, not because they're better units without blink.
The early game econ advantage Zerg can gain is nullified by two things for Toss:
1. Most are melee units so a wall will stop them; and, 2. Force fields will keep roaches at bay.
The biggest issue for Zerg is one of cost efficacy. The problem is that this is fine in the early to mid game, but you cannot continue that economic lead into the late game. At some point you have to stop making drones or you won't have an army. That is what you saw in these games. As the game goes longer the ability to wage a battle where your units aren't cost effective declines as your opponent approaches your income.
you are absolutely correct, a roach/hydra comp is not cost effective against toss endgame even with corruptors to handle collosi. If your gonna do this you need to keep the collosicount down alot while maintaining a supplylead. This is not something as a zergplayer you will win a majority of the games using. There is though the unit called the infestor that has proven to add cost effectivity to the zerg even in ZvP. Claiming that the zerg as a race have a hard time being costeffective is wrong, that comp is the problem and something most zergs stopped using a long time ago in lategame.
Broodlords can aswell be probably the most costeffective unit in the game... why not use it?
BLs are terrible vs Blink stalkers....
LOOOOOOOL god damn bronze league...
zergs gonna have more than just brood lords. brood lords with just pure lings are amazing.
LOLz someone who thinks they know what they are talking about.
BL + Ling would get stomped by that comp, but keep thinking that.
On August 12 2011 12:10 Neroin wrote: I like the mental image of Tasteless and Artosis sitting in one of their apartments casting these games because they love it. Tasteless even sounds much more relaxed than at the Gom studio which makes this cast even more enjoyable (also Artosis nice as usual). ♥
have to agree and hes dropping even more knowledge than usual. And of course his voice is just sexy
On August 12 2011 12:13 Lanif wrote: Idra attacked with 60-70 supply lead. But yow.. everything is fine :D
well, its not very hard to get a huge supplylead against a teching protss if you only go roaches... roaches are extremly supplyinefficient and costs very little considering its supply. and everybody knows this... If getting a 60supply lead should be enough to win you games then sure, not that isnt true.
On August 12 2011 12:10 Neroin wrote: I like the mental image of Tasteless and Artosis sitting in one of their apartments casting these games because they love it. Tasteless even sounds much more relaxed than at the Gom studio which makes this cast even more enjoyable (also Artosis nice as usual). ♥
have to agree and hes dropping even more knowledge than usual. And of course his voice is just sexy
I confess; I fap to Artosis's voice. Is that weird? Does it make me a freak?
On August 12 2011 12:15 Dexington wrote: So, good idea here, let's talk about Strelok vs White Ra and not Idra. Who gives a damn? Mana is just better right now.
Nah bro, forum geniuses are busy solving ZvP imbalance for the 10000th time in a live report thread. Let them work.
On August 12 2011 11:56 Ultramus wrote: Even though I'm fully aware these games are trash and there are way better ways to play ZvP, I still think it's pretty silly how roaches cost the same 2 food blink stalkers do when one is infinitely more effective.
I think it's pretty silly how roaches cost half of what a stalker does, scales better with upgrades, and in medium-small numbers can easily win engagements. And how the race capable of getting more income much faster has such a powerful early game unit they can mass. Now you expect that unit to also be as powerful in the late-game by massing that unit solely? the reason a stalker ball wins is because of superior range in large army confrontations, not because they're better units without blink.
The early game econ advantage Zerg can gain is nullified by two things for Toss:
1. Most are melee units so a wall will stop them; and, 2. Force fields will keep roaches at bay.
The biggest issue for Zerg is one of cost efficacy. The problem is that this is fine in the early to mid game, but you cannot continue that economic lead into the late game. At some point you have to stop making drones or you won't have an army. That is what you saw in these games. As the game goes longer the ability to wage a battle where your units aren't cost effective declines as your opponent approaches your income.
you are absolutely correct, a roach/hydra comp is not cost effective against toss endgame even with corruptors to handle collosi. If your gonna do this you need to keep the collosicount down alot while maintaining a supplylead. This is not something as a zergplayer you will win a majority of the games using. There is though the unit called the infestor that has proven to add cost effectivity to the zerg even in ZvP. Claiming that the zerg as a race have a hard time being costeffective is wrong, that comp is the problem and something most zergs stopped using a long time ago in lategame.
Broodlords can aswell be probably the most costeffective unit in the game... why not use it?
BLs are terrible vs Blink stalkers....
LOOOOOOOL god damn bronze league...
zergs gonna have more than just brood lords. brood lords with just pure lings are amazing.
LOLz someone who thinks they know what they are talking about.
BL + Ling would get stomped by that comp, but keep thinking that.
Smart move by whitera to break through his back rocks and expand to the upper left. Strelok thought he had a lead with his contain (which he kinda did initially) but he waited so long to expand himself. Then his army got caught out of position. Then whitera finished it.
On August 12 2011 12:15 Dexington wrote: So, good idea here, let's talk about Strelok vs White Ra and not Idra. Who gives a damn? Mana is just better right now.
Nah bro, forum geniuses are busy solving ZvP imbalance for the 10000th time in a live report thread. Let them work.
You realise your first 3 posts in this thread were something along the lines of "protoss OP"
Could it be the day of 0-2 comebacks :p as much as i want White-Ra to win it would be pretty epic to watch Strelok come back from this.
On August 12 2011 12:10 Neroin wrote: I like the mental image of Tasteless and Artosis sitting in one of their apartments casting these games because they love it. Tasteless even sounds much more relaxed than at the Gom studio which makes this cast even more enjoyable (also Artosis nice as usual). ♥
have to agree and hes dropping even more knowledge than usual. And of course his voice is just sexy
I confess; I fap to Artosis's voice. Is that weird? Does it make me a freak?
What the hell is wrong with you? YES, you are total freak.
On August 12 2011 11:56 Ultramus wrote: Even though I'm fully aware these games are trash and there are way better ways to play ZvP, I still think it's pretty silly how roaches cost the same 2 food blink stalkers do when one is infinitely more effective.
I think it's pretty silly how roaches cost half of what a stalker does, scales better with upgrades, and in medium-small numbers can easily win engagements. And how the race capable of getting more income much faster has such a powerful early game unit they can mass. Now you expect that unit to also be as powerful in the late-game by massing that unit solely? the reason a stalker ball wins is because of superior range in large army confrontations, not because they're better units without blink.
The early game econ advantage Zerg can gain is nullified by two things for Toss:
1. Most are melee units so a wall will stop them; and, 2. Force fields will keep roaches at bay.
The biggest issue for Zerg is one of cost efficacy. The problem is that this is fine in the early to mid game, but you cannot continue that economic lead into the late game. At some point you have to stop making drones or you won't have an army. That is what you saw in these games. As the game goes longer the ability to wage a battle where your units aren't cost effective declines as your opponent approaches your income.
you are absolutely correct, a roach/hydra comp is not cost effective against toss endgame even with corruptors to handle collosi. If your gonna do this you need to keep the collosicount down alot while maintaining a supplylead. This is not something as a zergplayer you will win a majority of the games using. There is though the unit called the infestor that has proven to add cost effectivity to the zerg even in ZvP. Claiming that the zerg as a race have a hard time being costeffective is wrong, that comp is the problem and something most zergs stopped using a long time ago in lategame.
Broodlords can aswell be probably the most costeffective unit in the game... why not use it?
BLs are terrible vs Blink stalkers....
LOOOOOOOL god damn bronze league...
zergs gonna have more than just brood lords. brood lords with just pure lings are amazing.
LOLz someone who thinks they know what they are talking about.
BL + Ling would get stomped by that comp, but keep thinking that.
Infestor. and blingdrops with some additional unit to buffer can crush that comp, something that many people have shown in the past. and roach/BL/infestor can aswell be extremly effective... are you really trying to say that roach/corruptor is the best way to handle it or what?
On August 12 2011 12:15 Dexington wrote: So, good idea here, let's talk about Strelok vs White Ra and not Idra. Who gives a damn? Mana is just better right now.
Nah bro, forum geniuses are busy solving ZvP imbalance for the 10000th time in a live report thread. Let them work.
You realise your first 3 posts in this thread were something along the lines of "protoss OP"
Could it be the day of 0-2 comebacks :p as much as i want White-Ra to win it would be pretty epic to watch Strelok come back from this.
I've been trolling for like my last 10 posts, the mods are just slow to ban me today. If you have the report button above my posts, I suggest you smash it.
On August 12 2011 12:00 FighterHayabusa wrote: No Zerg's are rolling over a Toss that turtles properly on 3 base. Sorry, but that just isn't true. The DPS out of the Colossus is just too much when there more than just a couple. Add to that the ability to outrange everything, and then hold them there with force fields means there isn't much that you can do. The corrupter is a pathetic unit(even dustin browder has admitted this), but you need them to kill the colossus(arguably they are bad at that too with their short range). So you end up with supply that you can't use.
Mixing in Hydras would not have changed that, at a certain point they'll have enough blink stalkers to rotate them well enough so that they are much more cost effective.
lolz. I know right, look at all that PvZ dominance in the GSL, and the two best foreigner protoss that were outside of Korea losing to mediocre zergs in Code A ro32.
While i dont think its unbeatable by any means, no player in code A is "mediocre" least of all check
On August 12 2011 11:56 Ultramus wrote: Even though I'm fully aware these games are trash and there are way better ways to play ZvP, I still think it's pretty silly how roaches cost the same 2 food blink stalkers do when one is infinitely more effective.
I think it's pretty silly how roaches cost half of what a stalker does, scales better with upgrades, and in medium-small numbers can easily win engagements. And how the race capable of getting more income much faster has such a powerful early game unit they can mass. Now you expect that unit to also be as powerful in the late-game by massing that unit solely? the reason a stalker ball wins is because of superior range in large army confrontations, not because they're better units without blink.
The early game econ advantage Zerg can gain is nullified by two things for Toss:
1. Most are melee units so a wall will stop them; and, 2. Force fields will keep roaches at bay.
The biggest issue for Zerg is one of cost efficacy. The problem is that this is fine in the early to mid game, but you cannot continue that economic lead into the late game. At some point you have to stop making drones or you won't have an army. That is what you saw in these games. As the game goes longer the ability to wage a battle where your units aren't cost effective declines as your opponent approaches your income.
you are absolutely correct, a roach/hydra comp is not cost effective against toss endgame even with corruptors to handle collosi. If your gonna do this you need to keep the collosicount down alot while maintaining a supplylead. This is not something as a zergplayer you will win a majority of the games using. There is though the unit called the infestor that has proven to add cost effectivity to the zerg even in ZvP. Claiming that the zerg as a race have a hard time being costeffective is wrong, that comp is the problem and something most zergs stopped using a long time ago in lategame.
Broodlords can aswell be probably the most costeffective unit in the game... why not use it?
BLs are terrible vs Blink stalkers....
LOOOOOOOL god damn bronze league...
zergs gonna have more than just brood lords. brood lords with just pure lings are amazing.
LOLz someone who thinks they know what they are talking about.
BL + Ling would get stomped by that comp, but keep thinking that.
Infestor. and blingdrops with some additional unit to buffer can crush that comp, something that many people have shown in the past. and roach/BL/infestor can aswell be extremly effective... are you really trying to say that roach/corruptor is the best way to handle it or what?
Morrow does the infestor/blingdrop very well. God, he took like 5 games of Huk a few days ago on Huks stream. I think the final score was like 5-1.
On August 12 2011 12:00 dsousa wrote: Anyone else notice that Totalbiscuit said after Game 3 that he thought Idra was probably on tilt?
This is cast from Replays right? So obviously, and I thought this at the time, TB had some insider information there.
Could be wrong, but I thought the comment was odd by TB when he said it... and now its a bit suspicious since Idra obviously was very tilted in the 4th and 5th games.
IdrA often tilts. It wasn't that impressive of a prediction.
On August 12 2011 11:56 Ultramus wrote: Even though I'm fully aware these games are trash and there are way better ways to play ZvP, I still think it's pretty silly how roaches cost the same 2 food blink stalkers do when one is infinitely more effective.
I think it's pretty silly how roaches cost half of what a stalker does, scales better with upgrades, and in medium-small numbers can easily win engagements. And how the race capable of getting more income much faster has such a powerful early game unit they can mass. Now you expect that unit to also be as powerful in the late-game by massing that unit solely? the reason a stalker ball wins is because of superior range in large army confrontations, not because they're better units without blink.
The early game econ advantage Zerg can gain is nullified by two things for Toss:
1. Most are melee units so a wall will stop them; and, 2. Force fields will keep roaches at bay.
The biggest issue for Zerg is one of cost efficacy. The problem is that this is fine in the early to mid game, but you cannot continue that economic lead into the late game. At some point you have to stop making drones or you won't have an army. That is what you saw in these games. As the game goes longer the ability to wage a battle where your units aren't cost effective declines as your opponent approaches your income.
you are absolutely correct, a roach/hydra comp is not cost effective against toss endgame even with corruptors to handle collosi. If your gonna do this you need to keep the collosicount down alot while maintaining a supplylead. This is not something as a zergplayer you will win a majority of the games using. There is though the unit called the infestor that has proven to add cost effectivity to the zerg even in ZvP. Claiming that the zerg as a race have a hard time being costeffective is wrong, that comp is the problem and something most zergs stopped using a long time ago in lategame.
Broodlords can aswell be probably the most costeffective unit in the game... why not use it?
BLs are terrible vs Blink stalkers....
LOOOOOOOL god damn bronze league...
zergs gonna have more than just brood lords. brood lords with just pure lings are amazing.
LOLz someone who thinks they know what they are talking about.
BL + Ling would get stomped by that comp, but keep thinking that.
Shit I would love it if White-Ra won this whole thing. With everything he does for the community the first place prize money would be soooososooosososoooo well-deserved.
On August 12 2011 11:56 Ultramus wrote: Even though I'm fully aware these games are trash and there are way better ways to play ZvP, I still think it's pretty silly how roaches cost the same 2 food blink stalkers do when one is infinitely more effective.
I think it's pretty silly how roaches cost half of what a stalker does, scales better with upgrades, and in medium-small numbers can easily win engagements. And how the race capable of getting more income much faster has such a powerful early game unit they can mass. Now you expect that unit to also be as powerful in the late-game by massing that unit solely? the reason a stalker ball wins is because of superior range in large army confrontations, not because they're better units without blink.
The early game econ advantage Zerg can gain is nullified by two things for Toss:
1. Most are melee units so a wall will stop them; and, 2. Force fields will keep roaches at bay.
The biggest issue for Zerg is one of cost efficacy. The problem is that this is fine in the early to mid game, but you cannot continue that economic lead into the late game. At some point you have to stop making drones or you won't have an army. That is what you saw in these games. As the game goes longer the ability to wage a battle where your units aren't cost effective declines as your opponent approaches your income.
you are absolutely correct, a roach/hydra comp is not cost effective against toss endgame even with corruptors to handle collosi. If your gonna do this you need to keep the collosicount down alot while maintaining a supplylead. This is not something as a zergplayer you will win a majority of the games using. There is though the unit called the infestor that has proven to add cost effectivity to the zerg even in ZvP. Claiming that the zerg as a race have a hard time being costeffective is wrong, that comp is the problem and something most zergs stopped using a long time ago in lategame.
Broodlords can aswell be probably the most costeffective unit in the game... why not use it?
BLs are terrible vs Blink stalkers....
LOOOOOOOL god damn bronze league...
zergs gonna have more than just brood lords. brood lords with just pure lings are amazing.
LOLz someone who thinks they know what they are talking about.
BL + Ling would get stomped by that comp, but keep thinking that.
cant argue with idiots anymore
So you resort to insults? Stay classy.
Well, hes not really wrong, when you use a comment like "BLs are terriblt against blinkstalkers" you are begging for comments like that. its like saying mutas are terrible against marines.... well yes, thats why you dont use but one unit. The fact remains that the Issue of cost effectivity lies in Idras comp not the races possibilities...
On August 12 2011 11:56 Ultramus wrote: Even though I'm fully aware these games are trash and there are way better ways to play ZvP, I still think it's pretty silly how roaches cost the same 2 food blink stalkers do when one is infinitely more effective.
I think it's pretty silly how roaches cost half of what a stalker does, scales better with upgrades, and in medium-small numbers can easily win engagements. And how the race capable of getting more income much faster has such a powerful early game unit they can mass. Now you expect that unit to also be as powerful in the late-game by massing that unit solely? the reason a stalker ball wins is because of superior range in large army confrontations, not because they're better units without blink.
The early game econ advantage Zerg can gain is nullified by two things for Toss:
1. Most are melee units so a wall will stop them; and, 2. Force fields will keep roaches at bay.
The biggest issue for Zerg is one of cost efficacy. The problem is that this is fine in the early to mid game, but you cannot continue that economic lead into the late game. At some point you have to stop making drones or you won't have an army. That is what you saw in these games. As the game goes longer the ability to wage a battle where your units aren't cost effective declines as your opponent approaches your income.
you are absolutely correct, a roach/hydra comp is not cost effective against toss endgame even with corruptors to handle collosi. If your gonna do this you need to keep the collosicount down alot while maintaining a supplylead. This is not something as a zergplayer you will win a majority of the games using. There is though the unit called the infestor that has proven to add cost effectivity to the zerg even in ZvP. Claiming that the zerg as a race have a hard time being costeffective is wrong, that comp is the problem and something most zergs stopped using a long time ago in lategame.
Broodlords can aswell be probably the most costeffective unit in the game... why not use it?
BLs are terrible vs Blink stalkers....
LOOOOOOOL god damn bronze league...
zergs gonna have more than just brood lords. brood lords with just pure lings are amazing.
LOLz someone who thinks they know what they are talking about.
BL + Ling would get stomped by that comp, but keep thinking that.
cant argue with idiots anymore
So you resort to insults? Stay classy.
Well, hes not really wrong, when you use a comment like "BLs are terriblt against blinkstalkers" you are begging for comments like that. its like saying mutas are terrible against marines.... well yes, thats why you dont use but one unit. The fact remains that the Issue of cost effectivity lies in Idras comp not the races possibilities...
He said BL plus pure Ling, which is terrible vs that comp. Lings get stopped by FF and 1 shot by that many Colossi, and then the stalkers can just Blink under the BLs.
BL+Infestor would be better, but again depends more on their mistakes than your skill.
On August 12 2011 12:00 dsousa wrote: Anyone else notice that Totalbiscuit said after Game 3 that he thought Idra was probably on tilt?
This is cast from Replays right? So obviously, and I thought this at the time, TB had some insider information there.
Could be wrong, but I thought the comment was odd by TB when he said it... and now its a bit suspicious since Idra obviously was very tilted in the 4th and 5th games.
The replays dont tell about who won the game (the computer player always wins). Maybe it was the number of replays (dont know if IPL sends some dummy replays to casters)
Watching that final Idra-Mana game was like stepping into a time machine to a few months ago. Zerg is massing roach/corruptor against Protoss death balls and getting stomped, and Idra is flipping about colossus OP. It's like someone hit him on the head with a shovel and he forgot that infestors and hive tech turn games and he can actually do something about a maxed P army besides rage quitting. The meta game has moved on. What is going on here?
On August 12 2011 12:44 NewtofDoom wrote: Watching that final Idra-Mana game was like stepping into a time machine to a few months ago. Zerg is massing roach/corruptor against Protoss death balls and getting stomped, and Idra is flipping about colossus OP. It's like someone hit him on the head with a shovel and he forgot that infestors and hive tech turn games and he can actually do something about a maxed P army besides rage quitting. The meta game has moved on. What is going on here?
Actually roach corruptor was outdated even then, Idra was just severely behind the curve.
On August 12 2011 12:44 NewtofDoom wrote: Watching that final Idra-Mana game was like stepping into a time machine to a few months ago. Zerg is massing roach/corruptor against Protoss death balls and getting stomped, and Idra is flipping about colossus OP. It's like someone hit him on the head with a shovel and he forgot that infestors and hive tech turn games and he can actually do something about a maxed P army besides rage quitting. The meta game has moved on. What is going on here?
Actually this game has been played more than a month ago
I think it's pretty silly how roaches cost half of what a stalker does, scales better with upgrades, and in medium-small numbers can easily win engagements. And how the race capable of getting more income much faster has such a powerful early game unit they can mass. Now you expect that unit to also be as powerful in the late-game by massing that unit solely? the reason a stalker ball wins is because of superior range in large army confrontations, not because they're better units without blink.
The early game econ advantage Zerg can gain is nullified by two things for Toss:
1. Most are melee units so a wall will stop them; and, 2. Force fields will keep roaches at bay.
The biggest issue for Zerg is one of cost efficacy. The problem is that this is fine in the early to mid game, but you cannot continue that economic lead into the late game. At some point you have to stop making drones or you won't have an army. That is what you saw in these games. As the game goes longer the ability to wage a battle where your units aren't cost effective declines as your opponent approaches your income.
you are absolutely correct, a roach/hydra comp is not cost effective against toss endgame even with corruptors to handle collosi. If your gonna do this you need to keep the collosicount down alot while maintaining a supplylead. This is not something as a zergplayer you will win a majority of the games using. There is though the unit called the infestor that has proven to add cost effectivity to the zerg even in ZvP. Claiming that the zerg as a race have a hard time being costeffective is wrong, that comp is the problem and something most zergs stopped using a long time ago in lategame.
Broodlords can aswell be probably the most costeffective unit in the game... why not use it?
BLs are terrible vs Blink stalkers....
LOOOOOOOL god damn bronze league...
zergs gonna have more than just brood lords. brood lords with just pure lings are amazing.
LOLz someone who thinks they know what they are talking about.
BL + Ling would get stomped by that comp, but keep thinking that.
cant argue with idiots anymore
So you resort to insults? Stay classy.
Well, hes not really wrong, when you use a comment like "BLs are terriblt against blinkstalkers" you are begging for comments like that. its like saying mutas are terrible against marines.... well yes, thats why you dont use but one unit. The fact remains that the Issue of cost effectivity lies in Idras comp not the races possibilities...
He said BL plus pure Ling, which is terrible vs that comp. Lings get stopped by FF and 1 shot by that many Colossi, and then the stalkers can just Blink under the BLs.
BL+Infestor would be better, but again depends more on their mistakes than your skill.
Listen you bronze league moron, ling infestor ultra rapes stalker collosus sentry, so stfu, you just suck, and so does idra in zvp, all he does is cry about balance, when he does the same roach hydra corruptor shit that noone does now adays. Go watch good zergs, idra is some dumb nerd that thinks hes a tough guy, id knock the shit out of him if he bad mouthed me at a lan. fuken dumb nerd, looks like a little turtle. he deserves to be banned from ipl, who does he think he is? Idras infestor micro is also a joke, just watch his stream, he cries about balance with literally every single thing, when the game is well balanced. His macro is what takes him far, not his on the spot thinking and micro, hes such an annoying figure of the community now.
oh wow i left when idra was up 2 games to 0 on mana and i come back now and look at the results and see that mana reversed the 3 - 0 i have to say mana's looking pretty damn impressive taking out ThorZaIN and now IdrA
On August 12 2011 12:04 FighterHayabusa wrote: [quote] The early game econ advantage Zerg can gain is nullified by two things for Toss:
1. Most are melee units so a wall will stop them; and, 2. Force fields will keep roaches at bay.
The biggest issue for Zerg is one of cost efficacy. The problem is that this is fine in the early to mid game, but you cannot continue that economic lead into the late game. At some point you have to stop making drones or you won't have an army. That is what you saw in these games. As the game goes longer the ability to wage a battle where your units aren't cost effective declines as your opponent approaches your income.
you are absolutely correct, a roach/hydra comp is not cost effective against toss endgame even with corruptors to handle collosi. If your gonna do this you need to keep the collosicount down alot while maintaining a supplylead. This is not something as a zergplayer you will win a majority of the games using. There is though the unit called the infestor that has proven to add cost effectivity to the zerg even in ZvP. Claiming that the zerg as a race have a hard time being costeffective is wrong, that comp is the problem and something most zergs stopped using a long time ago in lategame.
Broodlords can aswell be probably the most costeffective unit in the game... why not use it?
BLs are terrible vs Blink stalkers....
LOOOOOOOL god damn bronze league...
zergs gonna have more than just brood lords. brood lords with just pure lings are amazing.
LOLz someone who thinks they know what they are talking about.
BL + Ling would get stomped by that comp, but keep thinking that.
cant argue with idiots anymore
So you resort to insults? Stay classy.
Well, hes not really wrong, when you use a comment like "BLs are terriblt against blinkstalkers" you are begging for comments like that. its like saying mutas are terrible against marines.... well yes, thats why you dont use but one unit. The fact remains that the Issue of cost effectivity lies in Idras comp not the races possibilities...
He said BL plus pure Ling, which is terrible vs that comp. Lings get stopped by FF and 1 shot by that many Colossi, and then the stalkers can just Blink under the BLs.
BL+Infestor would be better, but again depends more on their mistakes than your skill.
Listen you bronze league moron, ling infestor ultra rapes stalker collosus sentry, so stfu, you just suck, and so does idra in zvp, all he does is cry about balance, when he does the same roach hydra corruptor shit that noone does now adays. Go watch good zergs, idra is some dumb nerd that thinks hes a tough guy, id knock the shit out of him if he bad mouthed me at a lan. fuken dumb nerd, looks like a little turtle. he deserves to be banned from ipl, who does he think he is? Idras infestor micro is also a joke, just watch his stream, he cries about balance with literally every single thing, when the game is well balanced. His macro is what takes him far, not his on the spot thinking and micro, hes such an annoying figure of the community now.
This post is full of class lol.
I'm not seeing much of a point in the midst of all that garbage.
On August 12 2011 12:44 NewtofDoom wrote: Watching that final Idra-Mana game was like stepping into a time machine to a few months ago. Zerg is massing roach/corruptor against Protoss death balls and getting stomped, and Idra is flipping about colossus OP. It's like someone hit him on the head with a shovel and he forgot that infestors and hive tech turn games and he can actually do something about a maxed P army besides rage quitting. The meta game has moved on. What is going on here?
Actually this game has been played more than a month ago
Oh if that's true then it explains a lot. :O Why are they broadcasting so long after the matches?
you are absolutely correct, a roach/hydra comp is not cost effective against toss endgame even with corruptors to handle collosi. If your gonna do this you need to keep the collosicount down alot while maintaining a supplylead. This is not something as a zergplayer you will win a majority of the games using. There is though the unit called the infestor that has proven to add cost effectivity to the zerg even in ZvP. Claiming that the zerg as a race have a hard time being costeffective is wrong, that comp is the problem and something most zergs stopped using a long time ago in lategame.
Broodlords can aswell be probably the most costeffective unit in the game... why not use it?
BLs are terrible vs Blink stalkers....
LOOOOOOOL god damn bronze league...
zergs gonna have more than just brood lords. brood lords with just pure lings are amazing.
LOLz someone who thinks they know what they are talking about.
BL + Ling would get stomped by that comp, but keep thinking that.
cant argue with idiots anymore
So you resort to insults? Stay classy.
Well, hes not really wrong, when you use a comment like "BLs are terriblt against blinkstalkers" you are begging for comments like that. its like saying mutas are terrible against marines.... well yes, thats why you dont use but one unit. The fact remains that the Issue of cost effectivity lies in Idras comp not the races possibilities...
He said BL plus pure Ling, which is terrible vs that comp. Lings get stopped by FF and 1 shot by that many Colossi, and then the stalkers can just Blink under the BLs.
BL+Infestor would be better, but again depends more on their mistakes than your skill.
Listen you bronze league moron, ling infestor ultra rapes stalker collosus sentry, so stfu, you just suck, and so does idra in zvp, all he does is cry about balance, when he does the same roach hydra corruptor shit that noone does now adays. Go watch good zergs, idra is some dumb nerd that thinks hes a tough guy, id knock the shit out of him if he bad mouthed me at a lan. fuken dumb nerd, looks like a little turtle. he deserves to be banned from ipl, who does he think he is? Idras infestor micro is also a joke, just watch his stream, he cries about balance with literally every single thing, when the game is well balanced. His macro is what takes him far, not his on the spot thinking and micro, hes such an annoying figure of the community now.
This post is full of class lol.
I'm not seeing much of a point in the midst of all that garbage.
Youre garbage, theres a lot of truth behind that rage.
On August 12 2011 12:44 NewtofDoom wrote: Watching that final Idra-Mana game was like stepping into a time machine to a few months ago. Zerg is massing roach/corruptor against Protoss death balls and getting stomped, and Idra is flipping about colossus OP. It's like someone hit him on the head with a shovel and he forgot that infestors and hive tech turn games and he can actually do something about a maxed P army besides rage quitting. The meta game has moved on. What is going on here?
Actually this game has been played more than a month ago
Oh if that's true then it explains a lot. :O Why are they broadcasting so long after the matches?
Who knows, all I know is it gives the results a chance to get leaked which I think they JUST DID earlier in the thread!!! Can anyone confirm if this is true? X.X
On August 12 2011 12:10 FighterHayabusa wrote: [quote] BLs are terrible vs Blink stalkers....
LOOOOOOOL god damn bronze league...
zergs gonna have more than just brood lords. brood lords with just pure lings are amazing.
LOLz someone who thinks they know what they are talking about.
BL + Ling would get stomped by that comp, but keep thinking that.
cant argue with idiots anymore
So you resort to insults? Stay classy.
Well, hes not really wrong, when you use a comment like "BLs are terriblt against blinkstalkers" you are begging for comments like that. its like saying mutas are terrible against marines.... well yes, thats why you dont use but one unit. The fact remains that the Issue of cost effectivity lies in Idras comp not the races possibilities...
He said BL plus pure Ling, which is terrible vs that comp. Lings get stopped by FF and 1 shot by that many Colossi, and then the stalkers can just Blink under the BLs.
BL+Infestor would be better, but again depends more on their mistakes than your skill.
Listen you bronze league moron, ling infestor ultra rapes stalker collosus sentry, so stfu, you just suck, and so does idra in zvp, all he does is cry about balance, when he does the same roach hydra corruptor shit that noone does now adays. Go watch good zergs, idra is some dumb nerd that thinks hes a tough guy, id knock the shit out of him if he bad mouthed me at a lan. fuken dumb nerd, looks like a little turtle. he deserves to be banned from ipl, who does he think he is? Idras infestor micro is also a joke, just watch his stream, he cries about balance with literally every single thing, when the game is well balanced. His macro is what takes him far, not his on the spot thinking and micro, hes such an annoying figure of the community now.
This post is full of class lol.
I'm not seeing much of a point in the midst of all that garbage.
Youre garbage, theres a lot of truth behind that rage.
You buddy, need to chill out and stop insulting people.
These games have been pretty old and I'm willing to bet new Mana vs. new IdrA would give us better games -.-
On August 12 2011 12:13 Condor Hero wrote: [quote] LOOOOOOOL god damn bronze league...
zergs gonna have more than just brood lords. brood lords with just pure lings are amazing.
LOLz someone who thinks they know what they are talking about.
BL + Ling would get stomped by that comp, but keep thinking that.
cant argue with idiots anymore
So you resort to insults? Stay classy.
Well, hes not really wrong, when you use a comment like "BLs are terriblt against blinkstalkers" you are begging for comments like that. its like saying mutas are terrible against marines.... well yes, thats why you dont use but one unit. The fact remains that the Issue of cost effectivity lies in Idras comp not the races possibilities...
He said BL plus pure Ling, which is terrible vs that comp. Lings get stopped by FF and 1 shot by that many Colossi, and then the stalkers can just Blink under the BLs.
BL+Infestor would be better, but again depends more on their mistakes than your skill.
Listen you bronze league moron, ling infestor ultra rapes stalker collosus sentry, so stfu, you just suck, and so does idra in zvp, all he does is cry about balance, when he does the same roach hydra corruptor shit that noone does now adays. Go watch good zergs, idra is some dumb nerd that thinks hes a tough guy, id knock the shit out of him if he bad mouthed me at a lan. fuken dumb nerd, looks like a little turtle. he deserves to be banned from ipl, who does he think he is? Idras infestor micro is also a joke, just watch his stream, he cries about balance with literally every single thing, when the game is well balanced. His macro is what takes him far, not his on the spot thinking and micro, hes such an annoying figure of the community now.
This post is full of class lol.
I'm not seeing much of a point in the midst of all that garbage.
Youre garbage, theres a lot of truth behind that rage.
You buddy, need to chill out and stop insulting people.
These games have been pretty old and I'm willing to bet new Mana vs. new IdrA would give us better games -.-
look at what he was posting, and tell me it isnt deserved
On August 12 2011 12:10 FighterHayabusa wrote: [quote] BLs are terrible vs Blink stalkers....
LOOOOOOOL god damn bronze league...
zergs gonna have more than just brood lords. brood lords with just pure lings are amazing.
LOLz someone who thinks they know what they are talking about.
BL + Ling would get stomped by that comp, but keep thinking that.
cant argue with idiots anymore
So you resort to insults? Stay classy.
Well, hes not really wrong, when you use a comment like "BLs are terriblt against blinkstalkers" you are begging for comments like that. its like saying mutas are terrible against marines.... well yes, thats why you dont use but one unit. The fact remains that the Issue of cost effectivity lies in Idras comp not the races possibilities...
He said BL plus pure Ling, which is terrible vs that comp. Lings get stopped by FF and 1 shot by that many Colossi, and then the stalkers can just Blink under the BLs.
BL+Infestor would be better, but again depends more on their mistakes than your skill.
Listen you bronze league moron, ling infestor ultra rapes stalker collosus sentry, so stfu, you just suck, and so does idra in zvp, all he does is cry about balance, when he does the same roach hydra corruptor shit that noone does now adays. Go watch good zergs, idra is some dumb nerd that thinks hes a tough guy, id knock the shit out of him if he bad mouthed me at a lan. fuken dumb nerd, looks like a little turtle. he deserves to be banned from ipl, who does he think he is? Idras infestor micro is also a joke, just watch his stream, he cries about balance with literally every single thing, when the game is well balanced. His macro is what takes him far, not his on the spot thinking and micro, hes such an annoying figure of the community now.
This post is full of class lol.
I'm not seeing much of a point in the midst of all that garbage.
Youre garbage, theres a lot of truth behind that rage.
No, there really isn't. Further, any knowledge you may have is couched in trash, and no one is going to sort through that to find your point.
On August 12 2011 12:10 FighterHayabusa wrote: [quote] BLs are terrible vs Blink stalkers....
LOOOOOOOL god damn bronze league...
zergs gonna have more than just brood lords. brood lords with just pure lings are amazing.
LOLz someone who thinks they know what they are talking about.
BL + Ling would get stomped by that comp, but keep thinking that.
cant argue with idiots anymore
So you resort to insults? Stay classy.
Well, hes not really wrong, when you use a comment like "BLs are terriblt against blinkstalkers" you are begging for comments like that. its like saying mutas are terrible against marines.... well yes, thats why you dont use but one unit. The fact remains that the Issue of cost effectivity lies in Idras comp not the races possibilities...
He said BL plus pure Ling, which is terrible vs that comp. Lings get stopped by FF and 1 shot by that many Colossi, and then the stalkers can just Blink under the BLs.
BL+Infestor would be better, but again depends more on their mistakes than your skill.
Listen you bronze league moron, ling infestor ultra rapes stalker collosus sentry, so stfu, you just suck, and so does idra in zvp, all he does is cry about balance, when he does the same roach hydra corruptor shit that noone does now adays. Go watch good zergs, idra is some dumb nerd that thinks hes a tough guy, id knock the shit out of him if he bad mouthed me at a lan. fuken dumb nerd, looks like a little turtle. he deserves to be banned from ipl, who does he think he is? Idras infestor micro is also a joke, just watch his stream, he cries about balance with literally every single thing, when the game is well balanced. His macro is what takes him far, not his on the spot thinking and micro, hes such an annoying figure of the community now.
This post is full of class lol.
I'm not seeing much of a point in the midst of all that garbage.
Youre garbage, theres a lot of truth behind that rage.
Did you actually make an account just to rage about how Idra bm'd? Jesus people, why do some of you care so much about what he says?
On August 12 2011 13:03 Juvant wrote: Does Apollo think Moonan and Momam are the same person?
I think he does... Thorzain is my favourite player but I decided to turn this broadcast off, I am not enjoying these casters as I feel they present the game at a very low level.
On August 12 2011 13:00 OmiDeLta wrote: HEY. DOWN HERE. EARLIER IN THIS THREAD. WAS THAT SO-CALLED SPOILER TRUE? Can anyone confirm or deny? Soon as someone does I'll shut up...
noooooo don't answer that! As long as there is doubt, we can remain in a blissful semi-unspoiled state. :D
On August 12 2011 12:13 Condor Hero wrote: [quote] LOOOOOOOL god damn bronze league...
zergs gonna have more than just brood lords. brood lords with just pure lings are amazing.
LOLz someone who thinks they know what they are talking about.
BL + Ling would get stomped by that comp, but keep thinking that.
cant argue with idiots anymore
So you resort to insults? Stay classy.
Well, hes not really wrong, when you use a comment like "BLs are terriblt against blinkstalkers" you are begging for comments like that. its like saying mutas are terrible against marines.... well yes, thats why you dont use but one unit. The fact remains that the Issue of cost effectivity lies in Idras comp not the races possibilities...
He said BL plus pure Ling, which is terrible vs that comp. Lings get stopped by FF and 1 shot by that many Colossi, and then the stalkers can just Blink under the BLs.
BL+Infestor would be better, but again depends more on their mistakes than your skill.
Listen you bronze league moron, ling infestor ultra rapes stalker collosus sentry, so stfu, you just suck, and so does idra in zvp, all he does is cry about balance, when he does the same roach hydra corruptor shit that noone does now adays. Go watch good zergs, idra is some dumb nerd that thinks hes a tough guy, id knock the shit out of him if he bad mouthed me at a lan. fuken dumb nerd, looks like a little turtle. he deserves to be banned from ipl, who does he think he is? Idras infestor micro is also a joke, just watch his stream, he cries about balance with literally every single thing, when the game is well balanced. His macro is what takes him far, not his on the spot thinking and micro, hes such an annoying figure of the community now.
This post is full of class lol.
I'm not seeing much of a point in the midst of all that garbage.
Youre garbage, theres a lot of truth behind that rage.
Did you actually make an account just to rage about how Idra bm'd? Jesus people, why do some of you care so much about what he says?
On August 12 2011 13:00 OmiDeLta wrote: HEY. DOWN HERE. EARLIER IN THIS THREAD. WAS THAT SO-CALLED SPOILER TRUE? Can anyone confirm or deny? Soon as someone does I'll shut up...
noooooo don't answer that! As long as there is doubt, we can remain in a blissful semi-unspoiled state. :D
Well if you deny it, it's not saying it won't happen. I'm just hoping for a "Nobody knows the results yet; the guy was just trolling."
On August 12 2011 12:04 FighterHayabusa wrote: [quote] The early game econ advantage Zerg can gain is nullified by two things for Toss:
1. Most are melee units so a wall will stop them; and, 2. Force fields will keep roaches at bay.
The biggest issue for Zerg is one of cost efficacy. The problem is that this is fine in the early to mid game, but you cannot continue that economic lead into the late game. At some point you have to stop making drones or you won't have an army. That is what you saw in these games. As the game goes longer the ability to wage a battle where your units aren't cost effective declines as your opponent approaches your income.
you are absolutely correct, a roach/hydra comp is not cost effective against toss endgame even with corruptors to handle collosi. If your gonna do this you need to keep the collosicount down alot while maintaining a supplylead. This is not something as a zergplayer you will win a majority of the games using. There is though the unit called the infestor that has proven to add cost effectivity to the zerg even in ZvP. Claiming that the zerg as a race have a hard time being costeffective is wrong, that comp is the problem and something most zergs stopped using a long time ago in lategame.
Broodlords can aswell be probably the most costeffective unit in the game... why not use it?
BLs are terrible vs Blink stalkers....
LOOOOOOOL god damn bronze league...
zergs gonna have more than just brood lords. brood lords with just pure lings are amazing.
LOLz someone who thinks they know what they are talking about.
BL + Ling would get stomped by that comp, but keep thinking that.
cant argue with idiots anymore
So you resort to insults? Stay classy.
Well, hes not really wrong, when you use a comment like "BLs are terriblt against blinkstalkers" you are begging for comments like that. its like saying mutas are terrible against marines.... well yes, thats why you dont use but one unit. The fact remains that the Issue of cost effectivity lies in Idras comp not the races possibilities...
He said BL plus pure Ling, which is terrible vs that comp. Lings get stopped by FF and 1 shot by that many Colossi, and then the stalkers can just Blink under the BLs.
BL+Infestor would be better, but again depends more on their mistakes than your skill.
Listen you bronze league moron, ling infestor ultra rapes stalker collosus sentry, so stfu, you just suck, and so does idra in zvp, all he does is cry about balance, when he does the same roach hydra corruptor shit that noone does now adays. Go watch good zergs, idra is some dumb nerd that thinks hes a tough guy, id knock the shit out of him if he bad mouthed me at a lan. fuken dumb nerd, looks like a little turtle. he deserves to be banned from ipl, who does he think he is? Idras infestor micro is also a joke, just watch his stream, he cries about balance with literally every single thing, when the game is well balanced. His macro is what takes him far, not his on the spot thinking and micro, hes such an annoying figure of the community now.
User was temp banned for this post.
He doesnt deserve to be banned from IPL nearly as much as you deserve to be banned from TL. And I find it interesting how you acuse him if thinking that he is a tough guy, and immediatly afterwards begin talking about how you could beat him up.
I'm really confused by Idra. He says he is a pro, yet I see him bitching about toss and terran all the time, yet when you look it his unit comps you see some huge deficiencies, especially when it comes to infestors.
He blames people for his lack in play. Seems like to me he is a very egotistical player that will always look last upon himself for faults. Not to take away anything away from him as he is a very, very good player, but I think he overestimates his own skill.
Just in that game against Mana he stayed roach-ling-infestor the entire game. He didn't take extra gases to tech to infestor which would have completely denied those stalkers and tbh Mana's collosus count wasn't that high. Mana played a straight game and honestly outplayed Idra even though Idra had opportunities to increase his chances to win.
Honestly I don't mind Idra's BM in gameplay. There is always some trash talking in professional sports I don't see what SC2 should be any different. Some BM keeps it interesting and adds an emotional element into e-sports which I believe is sorely needed.
The fact that people are raging about Idra's BM is frankly good for the longevity of e-sports as it keeps spectors emotionally involved and brings them back to watch more.
Yes Mana and WhiteRa!!! <3 Oh man I would love if either of them! So glad Mana won especially since the word is (since I missed it) that IdrA BMed him when Mana is so manner, and he also came back from being down 2-0. As for WhiteRa, it sucks that he has to knock out Strelok, but doing it in convincing fashion is great for him. Hopefully he's prepared for his weaker match ups though... then again this is all already.
EGIdra says @#$% you in game 5 after he loses? His attitude towards other players and the game in general is bad for E-Sports, and to bring it a little further one might even say he is ruining the sc2 E-Sports scene. It is a wonder why organizations allow him to compete in tournaments aside from the fact that he bring viewers because of all his fan boys. I would like to see ign give him a ban from the next ipl tournament (of course they never would). You don't need players like him harassing other players because they played a good game. I'm glad to see Mana didn't retaliate and kept his composer. GG. You deserved it.
On August 12 2011 16:11 milkyjug wrote: EGIdra says @#$% you in game 5 after he loses? His attitude towards other players and the game in general is bad for E-Sports, and to bring it a little further one might even say he is ruining the sc2 E-Sports scene. It is a wonder why organizations allow him to compete in tournaments aside from the fact that he bring viewers because of all his fan boys. I would like to see ign give him a ban from the next ipl tournament (of course they never would). You don't need players like him harassing other players because they played a good game. I'm glad to see Mana didn't retaliate and kept his composer. GG. You deserved it.
IdrA is ruining e-sports with 2 words, one of which looked like !@#$?
Thats more than a bit ridiculous, and mana couldn't relatiate because idra said it in place of a gg and left immediatly afterwards.
And organizations allow him to play because tons of people love him, he brings in alot of veiwers, and contradicting what you said, drama (idra) is GOOD for e-sports.
It's not IdrA's intention or job, he is being himself, but he is creating drama and rivalries which is a great thing.
On August 12 2011 16:11 milkyjug wrote: EGIdra says @#$% you in game 5 after he loses? His attitude towards other players and the game in general is bad for E-Sports, and to bring it a little further one might even say he is ruining the sc2 E-Sports scene. It is a wonder why organizations allow him to compete in tournaments aside from the fact that he bring viewers because of all his fan boys. I would like to see ign give him a ban from the next ipl tournament (of course they never would). You don't need players like him harassing other players because they played a good game. I'm glad to see Mana didn't retaliate and kept his composer. GG. You deserved it.
IdrA is ruining e-sports with 2 words, one of which looked like !@#$?
Thats more than a bit ridiculous, and mana couldn't relatiate because idra said it in place of a gg and left immediatly afterwards.
And organizations allow him to play because tons of people love him, he brings in alot of veiwers, and contradicting what you said, drama (idra) is GOOD for e-sports.
It's not IdrA's intention or job, he is being himself, but he is creating drama and rivalries which is a great thing.
Thats one way to look at idra. Other way could be that we are dealing with a disrespectfull child
it's actually quite sad to see people support this behavior from idra. "he's just being himself/honest", "it's entertaining, grow some balls". but i wonder, if idra meets you in a game on bnet, says fuck you or calls you trash, you apologize and slap yourself in the face? it's always amusing when you're the spectator watching this kind of banter unravel unless it happens to you. let's be honest, some guy says fuck you on bnet, you either flame back or ignore him. you don't become his fan and pat him on the back.
Im gonna quote White-Ra "No gg no skill" :D hahaha I personaly dont flame idra cause of doing that or judge him for doing that but i enjoy it a lot when he is loosing . On a side note id say stop supporting this kind of attitude people , its not healthy for any sport
On August 12 2011 16:50 JoeSchmoe wrote: it's actually quite sad to see people support this behavior from idra. "he's just being himself/honest", "it's entertaining, grow some balls". but i wonder, if idra meets you in a game on bnet, says fuck you or calls you trash, you apologize and slap yourself in the face? it's always amusing when you're the spectator watching this kind of banter unravel unless it happens to you. let's be honest, some guy says fuck you on bnet, you either flame back or ignore him. you don't become his fan and pat him on the back.
When I said he is being himself the only thing I was saying was he isnt being paid or trying to cause drama. Tons of people hate him aswell, he is one of those people with a massive fanbase, and a massive amount of people who hate him.
I don't understand why everyone makes a big deal about it though, if he does something that someone doesn't like then that person's personal opinion of him can change.
He has a strong opinion about things and he is brutally honest. He is also geniunly funny, and likeable if people could look past "he doesn't gg!" I would agree that this outburst was uncalled for and not appropriate.
If IPL had a very serious problem then they would take action, but honestly my opinion of him hasnt changed at all. In fact, it's hardly worse than IPLTV's constant sex jokes.
Finally, everything that IdrA has done isn't even that bad. People make comments like "this is why e-sports can never become big" While in reality, in the other sports people actually do bad (illegal) things. saying !@#$ you is the equvilent of someone beeping with an american idol logo over their mouth.
tl;dr If you dont approve of his behavior, dont like him. If IPL doesn't approve, they will take action. I have no problem at all and remain a fan because the massive amounts of drama that are caused from a single comments are ridiculous. And Esports is about as mannered and appropriate as any communities get, especially when there are outbreaks for these kinds of things. (not battle.net, just esports)
~noemercy (i feel like my post is long enough to warrant me doing that? =P)
On August 12 2011 16:29 noemercy wrote: It's not IdrA's intention or job, he is being himself, but he is creating drama and rivalries which is a great thing.
I'm sure people like you also cheer when stuff like Materazzi vs Zidane happens.
Being BM to Mana is almost as bad as being BM to WhiteRa, Mana is one of the most mannered, friendly guys out there. At some point the only difference between IdrA and CombatEX will be, that IdrA at least doesn't streamcheat.
I really can't understand people still defending Idra. He is actually really hurting esports. There is no other sport where a players can badmouth other player in front of everybody and go with it. If esports want to be taken seriously such thinks should be punished immediately. About that it is not his fault - this is just who he is - it doesn't matter. Being professional means you have responsibilities and you need to have some basic manners and stuff - if Idra doesn't have them - bad for him - he is not fit to be a pro. And one more thing - this is NOT simple trash talk - this is direct insult to a player in front of thousands watching, it should be punished immediately.
On August 12 2011 16:50 JoeSchmoe wrote: it's actually quite sad to see people support this behavior from idra. "he's just being himself/honest", "it's entertaining, grow some balls". but i wonder, if idra meets you in a game on bnet, says fuck you or calls you trash, you apologize and slap yourself in the face? it's always amusing when you're the spectator watching this kind of banter unravel unless it happens to you. let's be honest, some guy says fuck you on bnet, you either flame back or ignore him. you don't become his fan and pat him on the back.
When I said he is being himself the only thing I was saying was he isnt being paid or trying to cause drama. Tons of people hate him aswell, he is one of those people with a massive fanbase, and a massive amount of people who hate him.
I don't understand why everyone makes a big deal about it though, if he does something that someone doesn't like then that person's personal opinion of him can change.
He has a strong opinion about things and he is brutally honest. He is also geniunly funny, and likeable if people could look past "he doesn't gg!" I would agree that this outburst was uncalled for and not appropriate.
If IPL had a very serious problem then they would take action, but honestly my opinion of him hasnt changed at all. In fact, it's hardly worse than IPLTV's constant sex jokes.
Finally, everything that IdrA has done isn't even that bad. People make comments like "this is why e-sports can never become big" While in reality, in the other sports people actually do bad (illegal) things. saying !@#$ you is the equvilent of someone beeping with an american idol logo over their mouth.
tl;dr If you dont approve of his behavior, dont like him. If IPL doesn't approve, they will take action. I have no problem at all and remain a fan because the massive amounts of drama that are caused from a single comments are ridiculous. And Esports is about as mannered and appropriate as any communities get, especially when there are outbreaks for these kinds of things. (not battle.net, just esports)
~noemercy (i feel like my post is long enough to warrant me doing that? =P)
I wasn't actually addressing your post but as regards to the Idra situation, I mean we've seen it enough times now. Idra says some stupid shit/bm, people criticize him, his fans come to defend him, more back and forth, etc. The thing is, Idra fans cite his strong opinions and brutal honesty as admirable points. But if his fans are truly appreciative of these qualities, why do they disprove of comments made by critics also with similarly strong opinions but opposing? Sure some people are more critical of his behavior, exaggerate and blow things out of proportions but let's face it so has Idra in the past. It's always about refuting the argument of critics first but at what point do his fans maybe consider that all this could've been avoided if Idra held back from saying those things in the first place?
On August 12 2011 18:04 Corwintt wrote: I really can't understand people still defending Idra. He is actually really hurting esports. There is no other sport where a players can badmouth other player in front of everybody and go with it. If esports want to be taken seriously such thinks should be punished immediately. About that it is not his fault - this is just who he is - it doesn't matter. Being professional means you have responsibilities and you need to have some basic manners and stuff - if Idra doesn't have them - bad for him - he is not fit to be a pro. And one more thing - this is NOT simple trash talk - this is direct insult to a player in front of thousands watching, it should be punished immediately.
There are plenty of sports where players badmouth other players and referees during games and in interviews and have far more people watching than the thousands who watch IPL.
complaining about the race and game yea i guess, but personal attacks are just plain stupid and childish and make idra look like some childish punk kid
On August 12 2011 16:11 milkyjug wrote: EGIdra says @#$% you in game 5 after he loses? His attitude towards other players and the game in general is bad for E-Sports, and to bring it a little further one might even say he is ruining the sc2 E-Sports scene. It is a wonder why organizations allow him to compete in tournaments aside from the fact that he bring viewers because of all his fan boys. I would like to see ign give him a ban from the next ipl tournament (of course they never would). You don't need players like him harassing other players because they played a good game. I'm glad to see Mana didn't retaliate and kept his composer. GG. You deserved it.
IdrA is ruining e-sports with 2 words, one of which looked like !@#$?
Thats more than a bit ridiculous, and mana couldn't relatiate because idra said it in place of a gg and left immediatly afterwards.
And organizations allow him to play because tons of people love him, he brings in alot of veiwers, and contradicting what you said, drama (idra) is GOOD for e-sports.
It's not IdrA's intention or job, he is being himself, but he is creating drama and rivalries which is a great thing.
Thats one way to look at idra. Other way could be that we are dealing with a disrespectfull child
He's not your disrespectful kid, so ignore him then.
On August 12 2011 18:04 Corwintt wrote: I really can't understand people still defending Idra. He is actually really hurting esports. There is no other sport where a players can badmouth other player in front of everybody and go with it. If esports want to be taken seriously such thinks should be punished immediately. About that it is not his fault - this is just who he is - it doesn't matter. Being professional means you have responsibilities and you need to have some basic manners and stuff - if Idra doesn't have them - bad for him - he is not fit to be a pro. And one more thing - this is NOT simple trash talk - this is direct insult to a player in front of thousands watching, it should be punished immediately.
I don't get it either. I don't want to get into the pro-idra, contra-idra fanboy vs haters battle, but WHERE in which sport you can think of is it ok to directly insult your opponent?
Is it ok in Tennis? in Basketball? Football/Soccer? Baseball? Please tell me, what is it with esports that people think insulting your opponent doesn't deserve punishment if it happens in tournaments.
Or to put it in a more provocative fashion: do you think GSL would allow such behaviour?
On August 12 2011 18:04 Corwintt wrote: I really can't understand people still defending Idra. He is actually really hurting esports. There is no other sport where a players can badmouth other player in front of everybody and go with it. If esports want to be taken seriously such thinks should be punished immediately. About that it is not his fault - this is just who he is - it doesn't matter. Being professional means you have responsibilities and you need to have some basic manners and stuff - if Idra doesn't have them - bad for him - he is not fit to be a pro. And one more thing - this is NOT simple trash talk - this is direct insult to a player in front of thousands watching, it should be punished immediately.
There are plenty of sports where players badmouth other players and referees during games and in interviews and have far more people watching than the thousands who watch IPL.
There are plenty of sports were you get fined for badmouthing during a game.
On August 12 2011 18:04 Corwintt wrote: I really can't understand people still defending Idra. He is actually really hurting esports. There is no other sport where a players can badmouth other player in front of everybody and go with it. If esports want to be taken seriously such thinks should be punished immediately. About that it is not his fault - this is just who he is - it doesn't matter. Being professional means you have responsibilities and you need to have some basic manners and stuff - if Idra doesn't have them - bad for him - he is not fit to be a pro. And one more thing - this is NOT simple trash talk - this is direct insult to a player in front of thousands watching, it should be punished immediately.
There are plenty of sports where players badmouth other players and referees during games and in interviews and have far more people watching than the thousands who watch IPL.
There are plenty of sports were you get fined for badmouthing during a game.
there arent many sports that fines you for trash talk between players. Only when it may lead to a violent altercation do players get "techincals" but not fines.
I think youre thinking about a physical altercation, then yea, both players get fined and suspended.
On August 12 2011 18:04 Corwintt wrote: I really can't understand people still defending Idra. He is actually really hurting esports. There is no other sport where a players can badmouth other player in front of everybody and go with it. If esports want to be taken seriously such thinks should be punished immediately. About that it is not his fault - this is just who he is - it doesn't matter. Being professional means you have responsibilities and you need to have some basic manners and stuff - if Idra doesn't have them - bad for him - he is not fit to be a pro. And one more thing - this is NOT simple trash talk - this is direct insult to a player in front of thousands watching, it should be punished immediately.
There are plenty of sports where players badmouth other players and referees during games and in interviews and have far more people watching than the thousands who watch IPL.
There are plenty of sports were you get fined for badmouthing during a game.
there arent many sports that fines you for trash talk between players. Only when it may lead to a violent altercation do players get "techincals" but not fines.
I think youre thinking about a physical altercation, then yea, both players get fined and suspended.
I wouldn't really call what IdrA did trash talking...
I'm glad idra got reversed by mana. Idra probably feels like he is the much better player and obviously has a couple of excuses as per usual, but right now I would say mana is looking a lot stronger than idra.
On August 12 2011 18:04 Corwintt wrote: I really can't understand people still defending Idra. He is actually really hurting esports. There is no other sport where a players can badmouth other player in front of everybody and go with it. If esports want to be taken seriously such thinks should be punished immediately. About that it is not his fault - this is just who he is - it doesn't matter. Being professional means you have responsibilities and you need to have some basic manners and stuff - if Idra doesn't have them - bad for him - he is not fit to be a pro. And one more thing - this is NOT simple trash talk - this is direct insult to a player in front of thousands watching, it should be punished immediately.
There are plenty of sports where players badmouth other players and referees during games and in interviews and have far more people watching than the thousands who watch IPL.
There are plenty of sports were you get fined for badmouthing during a game.
there arent many sports that fines you for trash talk between players. Only when it may lead to a violent altercation do players get "techincals" but not fines.
I think youre thinking about a physical altercation, then yea, both players get fined and suspended.
I wouldn't really call what IdrA did trash talking...
Well I just want to say that I am not trying to defend IdrA. As a fan of his i wish he took a different approach to game ending situations.
But you call a spade a spade. Saying "fuck you" to someone is trashtalk/bad mouthing. The sport I'm most familiar with is basketball (im avid fanatic =p), and in basketball, some players get away with saying "fuck you" to referees not to mention each other. So I guess my basketball background has me used to stuff like this.
On August 12 2011 18:04 Corwintt wrote: I really can't understand people still defending Idra. He is actually really hurting esports. There is no other sport where a players can badmouth other player in front of everybody and go with it. If esports want to be taken seriously such thinks should be punished immediately. About that it is not his fault - this is just who he is - it doesn't matter. Being professional means you have responsibilities and you need to have some basic manners and stuff - if Idra doesn't have them - bad for him - he is not fit to be a pro. And one more thing - this is NOT simple trash talk - this is direct insult to a player in front of thousands watching, it should be punished immediately.
There are plenty of sports where players badmouth other players and referees during games and in interviews and have far more people watching than the thousands who watch IPL.
There are plenty of sports were you get fined for badmouthing during a game.
there arent many sports that fines you for trash talk between players. Only when it may lead to a violent altercation do players get "techincals" but not fines.
I think youre thinking about a physical altercation, then yea, both players get fined and suspended.
Oh yeah? Try badmouthing your opponent when playing tennis then.
On August 12 2011 18:04 Corwintt wrote: I really can't understand people still defending Idra. He is actually really hurting esports. There is no other sport where a players can badmouth other player in front of everybody and go with it. If esports want to be taken seriously such thinks should be punished immediately. About that it is not his fault - this is just who he is - it doesn't matter. Being professional means you have responsibilities and you need to have some basic manners and stuff - if Idra doesn't have them - bad for him - he is not fit to be a pro. And one more thing - this is NOT simple trash talk - this is direct insult to a player in front of thousands watching, it should be punished immediately.
There are plenty of sports where players badmouth other players and referees during games and in interviews and have far more people watching than the thousands who watch IPL.
There are plenty of sports were you get fined for badmouthing during a game.
there arent many sports that fines you for trash talk between players. Only when it may lead to a violent altercation do players get "techincals" but not fines.
I think youre thinking about a physical altercation, then yea, both players get fined and suspended.
Oh yeah? Try badmouthing your opponent when playing tennis then.
On August 12 2011 18:04 Corwintt wrote: I really can't understand people still defending Idra. He is actually really hurting esports. There is no other sport where a players can badmouth other player in front of everybody and go with it. If esports want to be taken seriously such thinks should be punished immediately. About that it is not his fault - this is just who he is - it doesn't matter. Being professional means you have responsibilities and you need to have some basic manners and stuff - if Idra doesn't have them - bad for him - he is not fit to be a pro. And one more thing - this is NOT simple trash talk - this is direct insult to a player in front of thousands watching, it should be punished immediately.
There are plenty of sports where players badmouth other players and referees during games and in interviews and have far more people watching than the thousands who watch IPL.
There are plenty of sports were you get fined for badmouthing during a game.
there arent many sports that fines you for trash talk between players. Only when it may lead to a violent altercation do players get "techincals" but not fines.
I think youre thinking about a physical altercation, then yea, both players get fined and suspended.
Oh yeah? Try badmouthing your opponent when playing tennis then.
I'm not familiar with tennis, what happens?
If the player doesn't adhere to the Code of Conduct the player will be fined or get a point penalty.
Verbal abuse of the opponent can be punished in soccer, too. Of course the referee would have to hear it first.
How nice to compare insulting f.e. in football where two players are standing on the grass like thousand metres away from any person that is watching, whispering to each other with the sound of wuwuzelas in the background, to an e-sport where players aren't talking but writing, and EVERY SINGLE PERSON that is watching the game can see what they have to say...
Can you imagine a football player taking a mic connected to huge speakers, asking everyone on the audience to stfu cause he want to say sth after the game and then shout f...you f... that...f... everything?!?
On August 12 2011 18:04 Corwintt wrote: I really can't understand people still defending Idra. He is actually really hurting esports. There is no other sport where a players can badmouth other player in front of everybody and go with it. If esports want to be taken seriously such thinks should be punished immediately. About that it is not his fault - this is just who he is - it doesn't matter. Being professional means you have responsibilities and you need to have some basic manners and stuff - if Idra doesn't have them - bad for him - he is not fit to be a pro. And one more thing - this is NOT simple trash talk - this is direct insult to a player in front of thousands watching, it should be punished immediately.
There are plenty of sports where players badmouth other players and referees during games and in interviews and have far more people watching than the thousands who watch IPL.
There are plenty of sports were you get fined for badmouthing during a game.
there arent many sports that fines you for trash talk between players. Only when it may lead to a violent altercation do players get "techincals" but not fines.
I think youre thinking about a physical altercation, then yea, both players get fined and suspended.
I wouldn't really call what IdrA did trash talking...
Well I just want to say that I am not trying to defend IdrA. As a fan of his i wish he took a different approach to game ending situations.
But you call a spade a spade. Saying "fuck you" to someone is trashtalk/bad mouthing. The sport I'm most familiar with is basketball (im avid fanatic =p), and in basketball, some players get away with saying "fuck you" to referees not to mention each other. So I guess my basketball background has me used to stuff like this.
Basketball/football players are make insults on the field, where there is no evidence and you only the person insulted can hear it. Compare it to that to be insulted in front of thousands watching. It is more like a basketball player say "Fuck you all" on the pressconference after the match, where everything is documented and do it in front of everybody. Will he be punished then?
Idra was well-behaved in Korea. He always gg-ed out of the games, and he never bad-mouthed a player on chats. The reason was pretty simple, GSL forbid in-game chat, and he would have been banned if he had said something like "fuck you" to Zenio. If tournament organizers want to stop this kind of behavior, they just need to grow a pair and ban the next person that does it. If they don"t do it, it just means they like the drama.
On August 12 2011 18:04 Corwintt wrote: I really can't understand people still defending Idra. He is actually really hurting esports. There is no other sport where a players can badmouth other player in front of everybody and go with it. If esports want to be taken seriously such thinks should be punished immediately. About that it is not his fault - this is just who he is - it doesn't matter. Being professional means you have responsibilities and you need to have some basic manners and stuff - if Idra doesn't have them - bad for him - he is not fit to be a pro. And one more thing - this is NOT simple trash talk - this is direct insult to a player in front of thousands watching, it should be punished immediately.
I don't get it either. I don't want to get into the pro-idra, contra-idra fanboy vs haters battle, but WHERE in which sport you can think of is it ok to directly insult your opponent?
Is it ok in Tennis? in Basketball? Football/Soccer? Baseball? Please tell me, what is it with esports that people think insulting your opponent doesn't deserve punishment if it happens in tournaments.
Or to put it in a more provocative fashion: do you think GSL would allow such behaviour?
They swear at each other ALL THE TIME in NBA basketball. Just watch Kevin Garnett's mouth move.
On August 12 2011 20:33 legaton wrote: Idra was well-behaved in Korea. He always gg-ed out of the games, and he never bad-mouthed a player on chats. The reason was pretty simple, GSL forbid in-game chat, and he would have been banned if he had said something like "fuck you" to Zenio. If tournament organizers want to stop this kind of behavior, they just need to grow a pair and ban the next person that does it. If they don"t do it, it just means they like the drama.
Of course they like it, look at the number of pages this thread got because of it. That's more exposure for IPL.
It's really hard to get hyped for games from 2-3 months ago played on maps which became irrelevant 4-6 months ago (old Terminus, old Shakuras). These games are not representative of current metagame, current player skills, current anything.
I want to point one thing though: just this week Idra said that Protoss players don't win tournaments because they are stupid. Well guess what, building no infestors vs death ball is equally stupid, but raging after that is twice as stupid. Do we see protoss players rage when they loose in PvZ and PvT as hard as Idra did? (oh, and 2 months ago Incontrol did say to Idra that playing roach/hydra/corruptor is not good in ZvP, but Idra only raged in response)
Anyway I hope IPL and other tourneys will have disciplinary actions in such cases as this
On August 12 2011 18:04 Corwintt wrote: I really can't understand people still defending Idra. He is actually really hurting esports. There is no other sport where a players can badmouth other player in front of everybody and go with it. If esports want to be taken seriously such thinks should be punished immediately. About that it is not his fault - this is just who he is - it doesn't matter. Being professional means you have responsibilities and you need to have some basic manners and stuff - if Idra doesn't have them - bad for him - he is not fit to be a pro. And one more thing - this is NOT simple trash talk - this is direct insult to a player in front of thousands watching, it should be punished immediately.
There are plenty of sports where players badmouth other players and referees during games and in interviews and have far more people watching than the thousands who watch IPL.
There are plenty of sports were you get fined for badmouthing during a game.
there arent many sports that fines you for trash talk between players. Only when it may lead to a violent altercation do players get "techincals" but not fines.
I think youre thinking about a physical altercation, then yea, both players get fined and suspended.
I wouldn't really call what IdrA did trash talking...
Well I just want to say that I am not trying to defend IdrA. As a fan of his i wish he took a different approach to game ending situations.
But you call a spade a spade. Saying "fuck you" to someone is trashtalk/bad mouthing. The sport I'm most familiar with is basketball (im avid fanatic =p), and in basketball, some players get away with saying "fuck you" to referees not to mention each other. So I guess my basketball background has me used to stuff like this.
but its just Idra being either a liar with creating his image or not having balls at all, he leaves without ggs or say his typical fuck you on internet but against most of this opponents he is normal on LANs, im not seeing anything you could be fan of, that makes him nothing more than just internet rager, dont compare it to trash talk in sports when someone actualy have balls to say this to their face
he is creating an image of 12 year old internet rager which brings many fans(oh humanity), but its just a trick
obviously idra isn't using his brain telling mana "fuck you"? i thought a "professional" player like idra should know that he is representing the team, the sponsors like he's always mention in interviews "thanks to blabla" and then say to someone like mana "fuck you" in a tournament who's a pretty mannerd guy and that at the age of 17? really crossed the line here... and why on earth is idra playing the same style all games long . i demand that EG book some lessons for idra from nestea i heard he only takes 300$..
Idra has gone from being BM about rather (seemingly)OP strats when Zerg was struggling hard, to being BM against legit opponents who straight up outplay him when Zerg is doing well. Used to be a fan when I could understand the rage. Now, definitely not :|
On August 12 2011 23:22 Tachion wrote: Idra has gone from being BM about rather (seemingly)OP strats when Zerg was struggling hard, to being BM against legit opponents who straight up outplay him when Zerg is doing well. Used to be a fan when I could understand the rage. Now, definitely not :|
Nah, same Idra as always, perhaps your perception is evolving.
On August 12 2011 22:16 justinpal wrote: Who cares about IdrA's manner? Why aren't people talking about how terribly he played in the last 3 games?
Uhf, was it really that bad @_@
Uhh...outdated roach/corrupter/hydra comps, 1a-ing into colossus balls, premature ggs, using cheesy builds when he has a better chance in a straight up macro game (his micro and decision-making are weak, especially when on tilt), yeah his play stunk.
On August 12 2011 21:03 voy wrote: I cant understand why people are defending Idra. Not a clue. He said "f**ck You" and left the 5th game. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayvRCWfyCN4
I dont care now about other sports, I care about sc community and the whole scene. F-word in writing on real time stream - im speachless.
Wow Idra played pathetically in that game, could'va easily sniped all the Colossus much sooner if he didn't just A-move his roaches against Mana's army, and then maybe the zerglings that came after would have been useful against a colossus-less army. Also he clearly forgot to make extractors, he had an infestation pit doing nothing.
I don't understand why the community continues to tolerate Idra when he is so outright disrespectful. He should be fined, or punished in some way for such outlandish conduct which hurts the professionalism of ESPORTS.
On August 13 2011 01:28 Athos wrote: I don't understand why the community continues to tolerate Idra when he is so outright disrespectful. He should be fined, or punished in some way for such outlandish conduct which hurts the professionalism of ESPORTS.
I would have to agree I was a fan but, not any more he really is just a cry baby when zvp is in favor of zerg right now and he continues to blame his bad play and poor decision making on an OP race. And really mana, come on idra have a tiny bit of class and humility and just leave. Cussing out a 17 year old who just played better then you is just unreal.
On August 13 2011 01:28 Athos wrote: I don't understand why the community continues to tolerate Idra when he is so outright disrespectful. He should be fined, or punished in some way for such outlandish conduct which hurts the professionalism of ESPORTS.
I would have to agree I was a fan but, not any more he really is just a cry baby when zvp is in favor of zerg right now and he continues to blame his bad play and poor decision making on an OP race. And really mana, come on idra have a tiny bit of class and humility and just leave. Cussing out a 17 year old who just played better then you is just unreal.
and he's getting Nerchio in the loser's bracket. Another chance to get owned by a 17 year old and curse him. Go idra! :D
Maybe what happened to Nani shud happen to Idra too. I remember Nani being a total dick back in the day before It threatened his career and forced him to change his behaviour, and his game also improved and became one of the best foreign protoss from a guy known mostly for his rage.
I'm watching the series on the EU restream, and it's pretty sad really. Goes roach-hydra in one game (wtf???), looses for obvious reasons, and then rages and prematurely leaves the following games? I just don't understand that guy.
On August 12 2011 18:04 Corwintt wrote: I really can't understand people still defending Idra. He is actually really hurting esports. There is no other sport where a players can badmouth other player in front of everybody and go with it. If esports want to be taken seriously such thinks should be punished immediately. About that it is not his fault - this is just who he is - it doesn't matter. Being professional means you have responsibilities and you need to have some basic manners and stuff - if Idra doesn't have them - bad for him - he is not fit to be a pro. And one more thing - this is NOT simple trash talk - this is direct insult to a player in front of thousands watching, it should be punished immediately.
I don't get it either. I don't want to get into the pro-idra, contra-idra fanboy vs haters battle, but WHERE in which sport you can think of is it ok to directly insult your opponent?
Is it ok in Tennis? in Basketball? Football/Soccer? Baseball? Please tell me, what is it with esports that people think insulting your opponent doesn't deserve punishment if it happens in tournaments.
Or to put it in a more provocative fashion: do you think GSL would allow such behaviour?
Uh, it happens in every other sport. If you haven't seen this then you just haven't played on a team before.
I've heard all sorts of shit on the field, and experienced many dirty plays. Saying fuck you over the internet is nothing. Certainly not something to get this upset about.
On August 12 2011 18:04 Corwintt wrote: I really can't understand people still defending Idra. He is actually really hurting esports. There is no other sport where a players can badmouth other player in front of everybody and go with it. If esports want to be taken seriously such thinks should be punished immediately. About that it is not his fault - this is just who he is - it doesn't matter. Being professional means you have responsibilities and you need to have some basic manners and stuff - if Idra doesn't have them - bad for him - he is not fit to be a pro. And one more thing - this is NOT simple trash talk - this is direct insult to a player in front of thousands watching, it should be punished immediately.
I don't get it either. I don't want to get into the pro-idra, contra-idra fanboy vs haters battle, but WHERE in which sport you can think of is it ok to directly insult your opponent?
Is it ok in Tennis? in Basketball? Football/Soccer? Baseball? Please tell me, what is it with esports that people think insulting your opponent doesn't deserve punishment if it happens in tournaments.
Or to put it in a more provocative fashion: do you think GSL would allow such behaviour?
Uh, it happens in every other sport. If you haven't seen this then you just haven't played on a team before.
I've heard all sorts of shit on the field, and experienced many dirty plays. Saying fuck you over the internet is nothing. Certainly not something to get this upset about.
Again though, that's on the field. Similar would be idra BMing mana in the prematch lobby, which nobody gets to see. Him BMing at the end of a match just showcases it and showcased insults (especially DURING the match) isn't tolerated in any sport I know of, save maybe 'wrestling' drama class.
He played absolutely atrociously, his micro was terrible. Yet he still almost won, and has the nerve to blame the game / insult his opponent. Sometimes he's really out of touch with reality.
On August 12 2011 18:04 Corwintt wrote: I really can't understand people still defending Idra. He is actually really hurting esports. There is no other sport where a players can badmouth other player in front of everybody and go with it. If esports want to be taken seriously such thinks should be punished immediately. About that it is not his fault - this is just who he is - it doesn't matter. Being professional means you have responsibilities and you need to have some basic manners and stuff - if Idra doesn't have them - bad for him - he is not fit to be a pro. And one more thing - this is NOT simple trash talk - this is direct insult to a player in front of thousands watching, it should be punished immediately.
I don't get it either. I don't want to get into the pro-idra, contra-idra fanboy vs haters battle, but WHERE in which sport you can think of is it ok to directly insult your opponent?
Is it ok in Tennis? in Basketball? Football/Soccer? Baseball? Please tell me, what is it with esports that people think insulting your opponent doesn't deserve punishment if it happens in tournaments.
Or to put it in a more provocative fashion: do you think GSL would allow such behaviour?
Uh, it happens in every other sport. If you haven't seen this then you just haven't played on a team before.
I've heard all sorts of shit on the field, and experienced many dirty plays. Saying fuck you over the internet is nothing. Certainly not something to get this upset about.
Again though, that's on the field. Similar would be idra BMing mana in the prematch lobby, which nobody gets to see. Him BMing at the end of a match just showcases it and showcased insults (especially DURING the match) isn't tolerated in any sport I know of, save maybe 'wrestling' drama class.
It is tolerated...I know because I've played for a long time. I've seen people tell refs to fuck off before. As to your point, if you watch any basketball at all you can actually see them say stuff like this. It is just a word.
On August 12 2011 18:04 Corwintt wrote: I really can't understand people still defending Idra. He is actually really hurting esports. There is no other sport where a players can badmouth other player in front of everybody and go with it. If esports want to be taken seriously such thinks should be punished immediately. About that it is not his fault - this is just who he is - it doesn't matter. Being professional means you have responsibilities and you need to have some basic manners and stuff - if Idra doesn't have them - bad for him - he is not fit to be a pro. And one more thing - this is NOT simple trash talk - this is direct insult to a player in front of thousands watching, it should be punished immediately.
There are plenty of sports where players badmouth other players and referees during games and in interviews and have far more people watching than the thousands who watch IPL.
There are plenty of sports were you get fined for badmouthing during a game.
there arent many sports that fines you for trash talk between players. Only when it may lead to a violent altercation do players get "techincals" but not fines.
I think youre thinking about a physical altercation, then yea, both players get fined and suspended.
I wouldn't really call what IdrA did trash talking...
Well I just want to say that I am not trying to defend IdrA. As a fan of his i wish he took a different approach to game ending situations.
But you call a spade a spade. Saying "fuck you" to someone is trashtalk/bad mouthing. The sport I'm most familiar with is basketball (im avid fanatic =p), and in basketball, some players get away with saying "fuck you" to referees not to mention each other. So I guess my basketball background has me used to stuff like this.
Basketball/football players are make insults on the field, where there is no evidence and you only the person insulted can hear it. Compare it to that to be insulted in front of thousands watching. It is more like a basketball player say "Fuck you all" on the pressconference after the match, where everything is documented and do it in front of everybody. Will he be punished then?
Not sure if serious. Ive seen players directly talk shit to fans themselves. Youre kidding yourself if you dont think NBA/footballs players dont talk shit to each other in front of 10,000 PLUS people who are actually attending the game. Not to mention the fact that we can see them mouthing it on TV. I've seen Kobe Bryant say "suck my balls" while making hand a gesture indicating that he has big balls.
Again, I'm not trying to defend IdrA here, infact I wish he would have just left without saying anything at all. But trash talking in basketball is a whole other animal.
On August 13 2011 01:28 Athos wrote: I don't understand why the community continues to tolerate Idra when he is so outright disrespectful. He should be fined, or punished in some way for such outlandish conduct which hurts the professionalism of ESPORTS.
I would have to agree I was a fan but, not any more he really is just a cry baby when zvp is in favor of zerg right now and he continues to blame his bad play and poor decision making on an OP race. And really mana, come on idra have a tiny bit of class and humility and just leave. Cussing out a 17 year old who just played better then you is just unreal.
and he's getting Nerchio in the loser's bracket. Another chance to get owned by a 17 year old and curse him. Go idra! :D
cant wait to see idra get raped again at IEM cologne. man that kid is spoiled.
i kind of understand MC's show-off, but lets face it, he is no.1 toss in the world, 2time GSL champ. and its even funny when he does it.
but idra. what's he got to show for himself? he can only win tournaments without any big korean players...or even EU for that matter. and if he doesnt win, its back to "f*** you". imagine this guy had like nestea's skill. omg, god save us all!
i just hope kas and beasty shove it up his ass in cologne. but they won't cuz they are actually well mannered guys.
i normaly not hate him but for this idra deserves a ban
On August 13 2011 08:18 flooky wrote: idra plays zerg though so everything he has said is justifiable
this words make him think z rly weak but in fact zerg is incredible strong and in korea rapes protoss nowadays as well as ret dimaga sen etc all find a style just idra stay oldschool and now after cry he start flame and thats NOT acceptable in such leagues
every world class zerg owns protoss. gsl anyone? or dimaga owning mana 2-3 weeks ago? or ret owning everyone on eu invitational? not to mention he roflstomped naniwa 4-1. NANIWA
"zerg is not supposed to beat protoss" exists only in idra's spoiled head.
Uh, it happens in every other sport. If you haven't seen this then you just haven't played on a team before.
I've heard all sorts of shit on the field, and experienced many dirty plays. Saying fuck you over the internet is nothing. Certainly not something to get this upset about.
uhh going up to an opponent after a game and saying "fuck you" certainly is a big deal. saying it while playing can also be pretty bad, especially if its unprovoked. Disrespecting an opponent because they beat you is crude in any sport, don't pretend like it isn't.
If Idra thinks ZvP is impossible, then why doesn't he just switch to Toss and start owning? Its pretty obvious he just won't ever admit being outplayed skill wise - just a poor sport all in all. The funny thing is, if Idra was a protoss player from the start, I absolutely guarantee he'd be going insane about how difficult PvZ is right now lol.
I actually dont mind Idra Bm'ing (anyone got a screencap btw?)
everyone being nice to each other in the game would just bring it very boring, so idra bring some different color to the is good for marketing
I mind Idra not being good becoz he's lazy (think in one of the interview he admitted that playing only like 2 /3 hours daily compared to like 8 hours before)
if you BM, at least you have to be good, or you are just a clown instead of a villain
On August 12 2011 18:04 Corwintt wrote: I really can't understand people still defending Idra. He is actually really hurting esports. There is no other sport where a players can badmouth other player in front of everybody and go with it. If esports want to be taken seriously such thinks should be punished immediately. About that it is not his fault - this is just who he is - it doesn't matter. Being professional means you have responsibilities and you need to have some basic manners and stuff - if Idra doesn't have them - bad for him - he is not fit to be a pro. And one more thing - this is NOT simple trash talk - this is direct insult to a player in front of thousands watching, it should be punished immediately.
I don't get it either. I don't want to get into the pro-idra, contra-idra fanboy vs haters battle, but WHERE in which sport you can think of is it ok to directly insult your opponent?
Is it ok in Tennis? in Basketball? Football/Soccer? Baseball? Please tell me, what is it with esports that people think insulting your opponent doesn't deserve punishment if it happens in tournaments.
Or to put it in a more provocative fashion: do you think GSL would allow such behaviour?
Uh, it happens in every other sport. If you haven't seen this then you just haven't played on a team before.
I've heard all sorts of shit on the field, and experienced many dirty plays. Saying fuck you over the internet is nothing. Certainly not something to get this upset about.
Again though, that's on the field. Similar would be idra BMing mana in the prematch lobby, which nobody gets to see. Him BMing at the end of a match just showcases it and showcased insults (especially DURING the match) isn't tolerated in any sport I know of, save maybe 'wrestling' drama class.
It is tolerated...I know because I've played for a long time. I've seen people tell refs to fuck off before. As to your point, if you watch any basketball at all you can actually see them say stuff like this. It is just a word.
How many times have I heard basketball players say shit during the live broadcast... I don't like this hyper-sensitivity towards BM and it was even bleeped out so its not even PG. Non-issue.
The big F U by idra, isn't being a 'bad boy' of starcraft. It's being childish.You can still be edgy, unique, without insulting your opponent.
The sport would be for the better if people lost that type of attitude. The sport is trying to grow, showcasing temper tantrums doesn't benifit anyone. People don't like cry babies in any sport.
I really don't understand when the Grand Finals are broadcast. Right now it's Monday August 15 here in Europe, 5:13 AM. The Grand Finals were supposed to be broadcast at Sunday August 14 at 5:00 PM PDT and as it seems it's Sunday August 14 8:13 PM there. So the Grand Finals have been broadcast... but why are there rebroadcasts of Mana vs White-Ra instead of the Grand Finals?
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