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WCG 2011 Grand Finals - Page 136

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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DarkMatter_
Profile Joined January 2010
Canada1774 Posts
December 08 2011 10:08 GMT
#2701
Movie got outclassed pretty badly.
Lord_J
Profile Joined April 2011
Kenya1085 Posts
December 08 2011 10:08 GMT
#2702
Fun game.
No relation to Monsieur J.
bgx
Profile Joined August 2010
Poland6595 Posts
December 08 2011 10:08 GMT
#2703
On December 08 2011 19:08 shr0ud wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2011 19:06 labbe wrote:
*sigh* If only sc2 PvP was this exciting

*sigh* If only a matchup would have 10 years to evolve.

collosus won't evolve into reaver
Stork[gm]
dinsim1
Profile Joined October 2011
67 Posts
December 08 2011 10:09 GMT
#2704
I have a serious question for these people complaining about Bo1. I think everyone here agrees that the larger the series, the larger the chance of the winner being the better player - so its quite clear that Bo1 < Bo3 < Bo5 < Bo7 < Bo9 < Bo11 < etc. for any given series. My question is this: Given that this event is hosting a global tournament with a variety of different games on a very tight schedule, what alternative to the given format would you propose which would complete the Sc2 section of the tournament in the same or less amount of time and also gives a better chance of having the final placement of the players reflective of their relative skill? This isn't some sarcastic shit either, I'm honestly curious for ideas on this.

Obviously a double elimination bracket starting with ~50 players would take more than 4x the amount of time available. Putting all the players in the single elimination bracket right away instead of using pools to cut it down to 16 would take less time than the current system because the average simultaneous games would be higher and also the total number of games lower. But then we are left with the distasteful proposition of having 3 of the best 4 players eliminated in the first 2 rounds, with 1st place still going to the best player and second and third to perhaps the 6th and 7th best players even if the best player wins, and also a much higher chance of the best player being cheesed out compared to the double elimination bracket. Obviously, an optimal approach would involve some kind of seeding which would prevent the best players from suffering for being placed together in early matches, and allow the bracket to pick matches that have a better chance of rewarding more skilled players with farther finishes (thats how seeding works after all). We'd also like a larger distribution of opponents per player to both strengthen the accuracy of the seeding as well.

Now the proposed system splits the players into groups of 7, so it takes 6 games to finish the seeding process. Since the tournament only pays to the best 3 players, we are most interested in ensuring their survival to the final rounds. Not only do they have low chances of being in the same groups, the top 2 make it out of each group anyway, so that serious bullshit has to happen to ruin their statistical edge on the competition (i.e. being placed in the same group + losing more than one game to worse players who manage to hold their own against other competition). All this is accomplished in the time of 6 games if the groups play simultaneously, or 12 games if they play as they are (half the groups at a time). Then the Ro16 single elimination starts: 8+4+2+1 series, each round of the bracket not beginning till the previous finishes in full, so unless not a single series goes to 3 games in a round (highly unlikely and not able to planned for), thats 15x3 = 45 games. So we have a tournament format with seeding, extremely high insurance for the top 3 to make it to the Ro16, and a total 57 game format.

Making a change to the format like "lol Bo1 is gay wut about Bo3 for the pools", keep in mind the following: 12 series have to be played for the pools to complete, with winners having to wait on conclusions of Bo3's, so this now makes the tournament running time 12x3 + 15x3 = 93 games if my math and estimates are correct. And we're now almost DOUBLING the time of the tournament for what? All we want is the best chance for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd to go to the best 3 players. If they don't, the most probable way this will occur is in the round of 16, where a bad Bo3 can send them packing to a worse player, or the top 3 can meet with each other earlier in the bracket. The latter will occur if 2 of the top 3 are pooled together and thus don't achieve the highest seeds, which changing to Bo3 in pools will do nothing to affect. The former occurs entirely in the Ro16 so also benefits in no way from a Bo3 in pools. So all we really get is noticeably more accurate seeding and a very, very slightly better chance a top 3 player won't get knocked out before the Ro16 - and for this we double the tournament time?

Looking at my top 3-4 picks for the tournament and the pools, I find it hard to believe the tournament format is not working as intended or that it will jeopardize the results. I actually am curious as to what people think about how the format could be adjusted to be more efficient/accurate, but all I'm seeing is a lot of idra fanboys flooding the thread with their tears alongside nonconstructive criticism. But if anyone who has experience with this, especially people who participated in these kind of events, I'm interested in what you think about it.
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
December 08 2011 10:09 GMT
#2705
Really good game, for a PvP. Lots of probes dying to reavers+HTs is always fun to see. :D
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
ZeaL.
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States5955 Posts
December 08 2011 10:09 GMT
#2706
On December 08 2011 19:08 bgx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2011 19:08 shr0ud wrote:
On December 08 2011 19:06 labbe wrote:
*sigh* If only sc2 PvP was this exciting

*sigh* If only a matchup would have 10 years to evolve.

collosus won't evolve into reaver


If it wasn't for the reaver and storm bw pvp would be pretty terrible to watch.
Sareth
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany1008 Posts
December 08 2011 10:10 GMT
#2707
On December 08 2011 19:06 mcmartini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2011 19:04 Sareth wrote:
On December 08 2011 18:52 sebusca wrote:
On December 08 2011 18:47 Zzoram wrote:
On December 08 2011 18:47 AIOL! wrote:
I look the groopstages today and then i saw Idra didn't qualify............


If Huk plays as badly as he did vs Keen in GSL, he won't either.


Huk didnt play badly. He had a build order loss in game 1 and didn't think Keen would use the same cheese twice. But he did.


The build Keen choosed was no cheese; it was the right reaction of that greedy Nexus first of Huk.

Read his interview he said he didn't want to go macro game with protoss and likens his build to same functionality as 1-1-1

But i still wouldn't call it cheese. Cheese is a strategy which looses almost instantly if scouted. Huk would have been fine, if he just have played standard. A 3 Gate-Expo; 1Base-play or maybe a 1 Gate-Expo and he would have won.
I dont say Huk played bad, he just played to greedy.
DarkMatter_
Profile Joined January 2010
Canada1774 Posts
December 08 2011 10:11 GMT
#2708
On December 08 2011 19:08 bgx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2011 19:08 shr0ud wrote:
On December 08 2011 19:06 labbe wrote:
*sigh* If only sc2 PvP was this exciting

*sigh* If only a matchup would have 10 years to evolve.

collosus won't evolve into reaver

Maybe Blizzard will get the memo when developing Legacy of the Void.
Provocateur
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden1665 Posts
December 08 2011 10:11 GMT
#2709
On December 08 2011 19:09 ZeaL. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2011 19:08 bgx wrote:
On December 08 2011 19:08 shr0ud wrote:
On December 08 2011 19:06 labbe wrote:
*sigh* If only sc2 PvP was this exciting

*sigh* If only a matchup would have 10 years to evolve.

collosus won't evolve into reaver


If it wasn't for the reaver and storm bw pvp would be pretty terrible to watch.

That's the thing though, the reaver is such a dynamic unit that adds a ton of excitement. Compare that to the supposed sc2 reaver, colossus wars are nowhere close as exciting =(
Lavi
Profile Joined November 2011
Bangladesh793 Posts
December 08 2011 10:13 GMT
#2710
On December 08 2011 19:07 Asha` wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2011 19:06 labbe wrote:
*sigh* If only sc2 PvP was this exciting


HerO does a good job.

SC2 PvP is getting there now we see a more developed midgame, but reliance on Colossus still wins most of the time late game which takes the fun out of big battles.

Don't like bw PvP much either tbh though =p


I honestly think colossus hold back protoss... hero and huk both show great micro and multitasking in midgame before it turn into turtly build up of colossus and upgrade game then it gets so one dimensional :|
mcmartini
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Australia1972 Posts
December 08 2011 10:13 GMT
#2711
On December 08 2011 19:11 Provocateur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2011 19:09 ZeaL. wrote:
On December 08 2011 19:08 bgx wrote:
On December 08 2011 19:08 shr0ud wrote:
On December 08 2011 19:06 labbe wrote:
*sigh* If only sc2 PvP was this exciting

*sigh* If only a matchup would have 10 years to evolve.

collosus won't evolve into reaver


If it wasn't for the reaver and storm bw pvp would be pretty terrible to watch.

That's the thing though, the reaver is such a dynamic unit that adds a ton of excitement. Compare that to the supposed sc2 reaver, colossus wars are nowhere close as exciting =(

Maybe we should give collussus attack terrible Ai too, could make it super exciting if those lasers just randomly mess up

I do love the reaver though, but half the excitement for me is seeing if it's gonna bug out or not haha :D
I just want to say I have 370 APM - Liquid'Tyler SotG 14-12-2011 "I mean it's too bad you can't be paid to be, you know, a chicken shit fucking whiny bitch on the internet or we would have lots of rich community members" Nick "Tasteless" Plott
ZeaL.
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States5955 Posts
December 08 2011 10:14 GMT
#2712
On December 08 2011 19:11 Provocateur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2011 19:09 ZeaL. wrote:
On December 08 2011 19:08 bgx wrote:
On December 08 2011 19:08 shr0ud wrote:
On December 08 2011 19:06 labbe wrote:
*sigh* If only sc2 PvP was this exciting

*sigh* If only a matchup would have 10 years to evolve.

collosus won't evolve into reaver


If it wasn't for the reaver and storm bw pvp would be pretty terrible to watch.

That's the thing though, the reaver is such a dynamic unit that adds a ton of excitement. Compare that to the supposed sc2 reaver, colossus wars are nowhere close as exciting =(


Oh I totally agree. The only things that are exciting about sc2 pvp is... what blink micro and forcefield? =/
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
December 08 2011 10:14 GMT
#2713
On December 08 2011 19:13 mcmartini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2011 19:11 Provocateur wrote:
On December 08 2011 19:09 ZeaL. wrote:
On December 08 2011 19:08 bgx wrote:
On December 08 2011 19:08 shr0ud wrote:
On December 08 2011 19:06 labbe wrote:
*sigh* If only sc2 PvP was this exciting

*sigh* If only a matchup would have 10 years to evolve.

collosus won't evolve into reaver


If it wasn't for the reaver and storm bw pvp would be pretty terrible to watch.

That's the thing though, the reaver is such a dynamic unit that adds a ton of excitement. Compare that to the supposed sc2 reaver, colossus wars are nowhere close as exciting =(

Maybe we should give collussus attack terrible Ai too, could make it super exciting if those lasers just randomly mess up

I do love the reaver though, but half the excitement for me is seeing if it's gonna bug out or not haha :D


It's not a bug, it used to hit almost all the time but it was too strong.
Tppz!
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany1449 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-08 10:14:43
December 08 2011 10:14 GMT
#2714

10:54 Uhr: GoOdy hat es geschafft. Er konnte das Three-Way-Tie gewinnen und zieht somit in die Playoffs der WCG 2011 ein! Unglaublich.


http://www.escgaming.de/artikel,996,world-cyber-games:-esc-icy-box-on-the-road-again.html

The team announced that GoOdy just won the Three way tie and advances to the playoffs
ceaRshaf
Profile Joined August 2009
Romania4926 Posts
December 08 2011 10:14 GMT
#2715
On December 08 2011 19:14 ZeaL. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2011 19:11 Provocateur wrote:
On December 08 2011 19:09 ZeaL. wrote:
On December 08 2011 19:08 bgx wrote:
On December 08 2011 19:08 shr0ud wrote:
On December 08 2011 19:06 labbe wrote:
*sigh* If only sc2 PvP was this exciting

*sigh* If only a matchup would have 10 years to evolve.

collosus won't evolve into reaver


If it wasn't for the reaver and storm bw pvp would be pretty terrible to watch.

That's the thing though, the reaver is such a dynamic unit that adds a ton of excitement. Compare that to the supposed sc2 reaver, colossus wars are nowhere close as exciting =(


Oh I totally agree. The only things that are exciting about sc2 pvp is... what blink micro and forcefield? =/


And....a hidden pylon.
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
December 08 2011 10:15 GMT
#2716
On December 08 2011 19:14 jalstar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2011 19:13 mcmartini wrote:
On December 08 2011 19:11 Provocateur wrote:
On December 08 2011 19:09 ZeaL. wrote:
On December 08 2011 19:08 bgx wrote:
On December 08 2011 19:08 shr0ud wrote:
On December 08 2011 19:06 labbe wrote:
*sigh* If only sc2 PvP was this exciting

*sigh* If only a matchup would have 10 years to evolve.

collosus won't evolve into reaver


If it wasn't for the reaver and storm bw pvp would be pretty terrible to watch.

That's the thing though, the reaver is such a dynamic unit that adds a ton of excitement. Compare that to the supposed sc2 reaver, colossus wars are nowhere close as exciting =(

Maybe we should give collussus attack terrible Ai too, could make it super exciting if those lasers just randomly mess up

I do love the reaver though, but half the excitement for me is seeing if it's gonna bug out or not haha :D


It's not a bug, it used to hit almost all the time but it was too strong.



Yup, they used to be a lot more devastating. T_T
Bromazepam
Profile Joined August 2011
820 Posts
December 08 2011 10:15 GMT
#2717
On December 08 2011 19:09 dinsim1 wrote:
-snip-


You should consider posting this in its own thread, since in a LR it will get buried pretty quickly.
Personally I'm kinda fine with big groups and Bo1, although I'd enjoy Bo3s more.

However the "time" argument doesn't really hold in this context. They are broadcasting only a few games, while most of them are being played at the same time.
Saying that something is killing esports is killing esports.
Ramuh
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany238 Posts
December 08 2011 10:15 GMT
#2718
On December 08 2011 19:14 Tppz! wrote:
Show nested quote +

10:54 Uhr: GoOdy hat es geschafft. Er konnte das Three-Way-Tie gewinnen und zieht somit in die Playoffs der WCG 2011 ein! Unglaublich.


http://www.escgaming.de/artikel,996,world-cyber-games:-esc-icy-box-on-the-road-again.html

The team announced that GoOdy just won the Three way tie and advances to the playoffs


Yay Goody, me likes that
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
December 08 2011 10:16 GMT
#2719
On December 08 2011 19:15 Ramuh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2011 19:14 Tppz! wrote:

10:54 Uhr: GoOdy hat es geschafft. Er konnte das Three-Way-Tie gewinnen und zieht somit in die Playoffs der WCG 2011 ein! Unglaublich.


http://www.escgaming.de/artikel,996,world-cyber-games:-esc-icy-box-on-the-road-again.html

The team announced that GoOdy just won the Three way tie and advances to the playoffs


Yay Goody, me likes that


Sick! Thanks for the update.
HwangjaeTerran
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Finland5967 Posts
December 08 2011 10:16 GMT
#2720
On December 08 2011 19:15 Ramuh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2011 19:14 Tppz! wrote:

10:54 Uhr: GoOdy hat es geschafft. Er konnte das Three-Way-Tie gewinnen und zieht somit in die Playoffs der WCG 2011 ein! Unglaublich.


http://www.escgaming.de/artikel,996,world-cyber-games:-esc-icy-box-on-the-road-again.html

The team announced that GoOdy just won the Three way tie and advances to the playoffs


Yay Goody, me likes that


woot

Panzaren Brewmaster /,,/
https://steamcommunity.com/id/*tlusernamehere*/
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