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On May 04 2011 04:50 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 04:47 Leavzou wrote:On May 04 2011 04:42 On_Slaught wrote:
People should stop defending "infestors into marine lines" stuff. It is indefensible. It is the result of lazy players putting them on the same hotkey as their army(sadly a byproduct of being able to group infinite units in this game).
You think Jaedong would run his infestors into suicidal deaths b/c they were on the same hotkey as his lings? Lol... Do you really think it's lazyness from one of the best zergs in the world ? It must be a troll. MKP is lazy too, he plays all units, including tanks medivacs ravens, in 1 control group. Why do you think one of the best zergs wouldn't do the same?
In what games/matchup? A quick youtube search just turned up this game vs. Leenock where he puts hellions in an entirely separate control group, at least. Check his tabs.
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I love how everyone says sc has no skill and are complaining about marines. Did u guys even see Losira's unit control in game 1? He ran his expensive infestors into marines when ur suppose to leave ur casters in the back. That would be like sc running his thors into a bunch of lings and letting his siege tanks get picked off by mutas and then complaing. U guys are totally zerg biased and are brainwashed when u can't even notice such horrible micro. Also Sc is not a random player he has been on the pro scene forever, ur just shocked by the overshadowing Losira receives from Tastosis. God get some own opinions instead of jumping on the Tastosis band wagon and actually judge players by skill. Also idk why u guys get so mad when u see terran being aggressive. Isn't that how TvZ is suppose to be played? When u say that sc was being overly aggressive and complaining that he can't macro, u guys try terran and no matter how good u get at macro u will never outmacro a zerg of the same tier without aggression. So saying that terran is to aggressive is going against the fundamentals of the game. Noobs need to learn how to play
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I think the problem most people have with what that game showed is how Terran is now effectively better at being Zerg than Zerg. The 10Rax aggression requires a massive economy for the Zerg to be able to defend, while the Terran can just stop mining gas after he gets a couple upgrades. While LosirA did throw away infestors, those were all infestors with 0 energy. Yes, he should've kept them in the back, but he probably didn't want to waste APM babysitting them when what he needed at the time was more units in order to hold the next batch of 16 marines that was on its way. 16 marines every 25 seconds. It takes 24 seconds to make a zergling and then 20 seconds to morph it into a baneling. It takes 50 seconds to make an infestor and they max out at 2 FG per infestor (75 energy per cast, 200 energy total). Do you see where the QQ is coming from? I think a lot of the anger is misplaced; it's not the marines that are the problem, it's the Terran macro mechanics -- from the reactors to MULES -- that make a strategy that shouldn't even be viable VERY strong.
About the 1 control group thing, along the points I've already laid down in the previous paragraph, LosirA is VERY busy trying to macro out enough units in time to defend against sC's marines. I'm guessing amidst all the micro/macro, he didn't have the time individually control group lings/blings/infestors into different groups and just boxed together whatever units came out to the rally points together, using the tab functionality to do what he needed to. "Better baneling micro" was basically impossible because of sC's sick marine splits whenever the blings rolled in; there was no way either banelings or infestors were going to be cost effective at that point.
Not hating on sC for doing what he did, but hating on Terran for making the strategies possible. I mean, in the second game...he transitioned CLEANLY out of an all-in. It didn't look like he even had a hiccup after pulling what I think was 9 SCV's from his mineral line. Don't want to get flamed, I don't think Terran's OP. ZvT is actually my favorite match-up, as it's challenging and fun for both sides. It's just sh*t like this can really leave a bad aftertaste. You realize that one guy basically just spammed 50/0 units to one rally point for 10 minutes, while another was forced to defending using a mixture of 75/25 and 100/150 units that take twice as long to produce, and the guy defending never really stood a chance. I say never stood a chance because sC's macro actually slipped and he started floating minerals towards the end, had he kept it up, LosirA would've been creamed. Yes, LosirA was floating over 1k gas towards the end, but couldn't spend it because he was mined out of his main, lost his 3rd, and had an average of like 1-200 minerals to spend at any given time.
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The first game losira simply lost because of bad unit management. He lost 40+ zerglings that game because of bad movement, gave away 4 roaches for free at one point and lost countless infestors towards the end. It would have looked much different if he kept those first 3 or 4 infestors alive as they would have been able to fungal 2-3 times more each easily. Also not really that cheesy if you force that many zerglings early game to start attacking hard after a delay for your econ to get ahead.
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Also the aggressive pvt is much more exciting to watch than the p pressure which is build 6 warpgates and /pray your first attack cripples them or you lose.
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Sad to see Losira go out. Not sure why he abandoned his roach/ling/bling style in game 3.
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I don't think I've ever been so annoyed/angry that a terran player won a game. If anybody actually thinks sC was the better player in that series, then there in serious denial. I've done strategies like that mass rax against zerg and I've stopped doing it because its a lame strategy, if the zerg loses a few to many units or produces a few to many drones the terran player auto wins just by the overwhelming numbers of marines and marauders. Also check out sC's sick macro almost getting both orbitals full on energy when he didn't even need to save scans. sC did those strategies because he knew if Losira ever brought it to late game he would lose and the only game where he went a standard build was on a map that's a major uphill battle for zerg. Anyway my rant is over, I'm just hoping NaDa fucking stomps sC in the semis.
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On May 04 2011 06:04 tdt wrote:
Cheese serves Losira right after he cheesed Alicia to get there. Good job sC,
Ya roach ling aggression off 2 base while getting a 3rd hatch is totally cheese bro.
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you guys do know that scfou was a consistent rank 1 ladder player in korea right? Ladders matters ALOT. When no one knew marineking, he was sitting at the top of the ladder then became a big hit. No one knew MVP and MC, but they were number 1 and 2 on the ladder before they became big. Losira, byun, scfou were consistent top ladder players, and with the latest results, they have been showing that they can compete. PoltPrime for example seems like a bad player, but he manages to stay in code S. If you look at his ladder ranks, HE is CONSISTENTLY in top 10
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@pwere
I guess 2hatch2queen is insufficent production for the early game eh?
Fast 3rds (saturated or not) are dangerous. In fact, the timing push to punish a fast third needs to get there before the saturation.
SC's strategy punished the heavy macro play expected on terminus by forgoing units in order to build a crap tonne of barracks. The production facilities turned on right when Losira was setting up his third. That's not an all in, that's a finely tuned attack.
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I have never seen so much zerg complaint until now. Losira said in an interview he chose zerg because he likes to 1a attack. And that's exactly what you saw here...
Sc is extremely underrated, as Artosis said. This is his 2nd ro4 appearance and rightfully so. I didn't see anyone whining when Jinro made his 2 top 4 appearances. And from the looks of his game, if he can refine certain things he's going to be very good.
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Damn, Losira did not play his best at all. Game 2 was just a stupid cheese which anyone could lose but Game 1 and 3 he outplayed sC for about 90% of the game but just let himself fall too far behind at the start.
Ah well, hopefully Losira does better next time.
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On May 04 2011 10:16 FuzzyJAM wrote:
Damn, Losira did not play his best at all. Game 2 was just a stupid cheese which anyone could lose but Game 1 and 3 he outplayed sC for about 90% of the game but just let himself fall too far behind at the start.
Ah well, hopefully Losira does better next time.
You call running 5+ infestors to their deaths outplaying? Guy has to improve his micro. Though he's still one of my fav zergs 
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On May 04 2011 09:48 Exhale- wrote:
sC did those strategies because he knew if Losira ever brought it to late game he would lose
Losira did those strategies because he knew if Alicia ever brought it to late game he would lose
See what I did there?
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On May 04 2011 09:51 Exhale- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 06:04 tdt wrote:
Cheese serves Losira right after he cheesed Alicia to get there. Good job sC, Ya roach ling aggression off 2 base while getting a 3rd hatch is totally cheese bro.
idk why, but this made me laugh uncontrollably. 
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On May 04 2011 10:19 Brad wrote:
GSL is so random.
you mean the guy whose been a top 4 contender twice in a row beat someone fresh from code A?
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On May 04 2011 10:24 zyglrox wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 09:51 Exhale- wrote:On May 04 2011 06:04 tdt wrote:
Cheese serves Losira right after he cheesed Alicia to get there. Good job sC, Ya roach ling aggression off 2 base while getting a 3rd hatch is totally cheese bro. idk why, but this made me laugh uncontrollably.
it's probably because this thread called SC's 3base 10rax pressure Cheese hypocrasy is always funny.
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sC for the first time impressed me today, I knew he would do at least one 2rax (the boy loves that stuff based off the FXOpen replays of him and zergs lol), but game 1 he heavily outmicroed Losira like no other. He transitioned into marauders when necessary and maintained constant aggression without blindly losing units. He added the third CC when his base was running dry and was able to focus enough to run his scvs from the 2 banes Losira snuck into his mineral line.
People arguing he just cheesed...it's hardly that sC made some marines and A-moved into Losira's base, if he did that Losira would have won easily, but sC's micro was MKPesque there.
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People are making a big deal of Losira losing his infestors, and yeah his control was bad, but I don't think that would have saved him. At best he would have gotten one extra fungal out of each of them, and probably not even that. I think losing his third was what sealed the deal, and that came down to losing a few too many lings and unfortunate ling placement on a few occasions. Losira just didn't play his best in any of the games unfortunately. The fact that he managed to hold such terrible positions for so long is a testament to how good he is.
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EPT
