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Sick first 2 games, the most creative players playing against each other  awesome!
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Upload fasteeer! I want to see the rest of the games 
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On May 01 2011 09:15 hugman wrote:Upload fasteeer! I want to see the rest of the games
^This :D
Sick games. Thanks for the uploading nevertheless.
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+ Show Spoiler +Spanishiwa played amazingly in the second game. He built 5 overseers to stop viking production forever. I have a hard time believing he could get enough gas for those 5 overseers, hive tech, corruptors, brood lord, ~9 infestors, burrow and overlord speed.
Go even it up TLO!
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On May 01 2011 09:45 DeltruS wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Spanishiwa played amazingly in the second game. He built 5 overseers to stop viking production forever. I have a hard time believing he could get enough gas for those 5 overseers, hive tech, corruptors, brood lord, ~9 infestors, burrow and overlord speed.
Go even it up TLO!
+ Show Spoiler +I never saw more than 2 overseers from watching the minimap/production tab/units tab, dunno about that.
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Game 3 of 7
Metalopolis
+ Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UALRmQy4Q8&feature=feedu
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spanishiwa gonna own. can't wait to watch these!
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Games so far have been awesome. + Show Spoiler +lol at youtube comments about zerg being op
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+ Show Spoiler +people on youtube claiming to be masters league and saying that zerg is OP. classic
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+ Show Spoiler +tlo handled that game 1 cheese so poorly, the cheese was terrible and incredibly easy to hold. spanishiwa still is unimpressive imo. Less scv pulling and a earlier bunker would of stopped it cold.
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i can see why they call zerg op ... spawning 7 units each 40 seconds from each base.... the spawn time of zerg units and larva dont expireing give pplz lots of problems
User was warned for this post
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On May 01 2011 13:45 clownzim wrote:
i can see why they call zerg op ... spawning 7 units each 40 seconds from each base.... the spawn time of zerg units and larva dont expireing give pplz lots of problems
...just stop
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Holy crappuchino! Just woke up, saw the first three games, still think i'm dreaming O.O
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cannot....wait....any....longer!!!!!!! come on!
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God TLO got so bad. Please just go back to random.
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TLO has failed to improve I think. His macro's pretty bad all game long. His armies just so small..
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On May 01 2011 13:35 Mojar wrote:+ Show Spoiler +tlo handled that game 1 cheese so poorly, the cheese was terrible and incredibly easy to hold. spanishiwa still is unimpressive imo. Less scv pulling and a earlier bunker would of stopped it cold.
On May 01 2011 14:21 koolaid1990 wrote:
God TLO got so bad. Please just go back to random.
On May 01 2011 14:30 frucisky wrote:
TLO has failed to improve I think. His macro's pretty bad all game long. His armies just so small..
Why do you guys have to be so BM? Just enjoy the games for what they are. Everyone can have a bad day, and it's not like he was playing cross server or had a TL event coming up in a few minutes. Point is you don't know either of our situations, so don't be so quick to judge.
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games pretty entertaining so far. I might have to try this late gas thing lol. It seems like the hellion harass should do more though
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glad to see a guy like Spanishiwa come on the scene, showing what zerg can really do.. Been saying it all along, just needed a creative hero.
along with him, Moon's baneling drops, and july's aggressive style, hope we'll stop seeing "Zerg is the worst race" threads
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On May 01 2011 14:39 Spanishiwa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2011 13:35 Mojar wrote:+ Show Spoiler +tlo handled that game 1 cheese so poorly, the cheese was terrible and incredibly easy to hold. spanishiwa still is unimpressive imo. Less scv pulling and a earlier bunker would of stopped it cold. Show nested quote +On May 01 2011 14:21 koolaid1990 wrote:
God TLO got so bad. Please just go back to random. Show nested quote +On May 01 2011 14:30 frucisky wrote:
TLO has failed to improve I think. His macro's pretty bad all game long. His armies just so small.. Why do you guys have to be so BM? Just enjoy the games for what they are. Everyone can have a bad day, and it's not like he was playing cross server or had a TL event coming up in a few minutes. Point is you don't know either of our situations, so don't be so quick to judge.
Great to see your respect for an awesome competitor. Well played.
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On May 01 2011 14:39 Spanishiwa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2011 13:35 Mojar wrote:+ Show Spoiler +tlo handled that game 1 cheese so poorly, the cheese was terrible and incredibly easy to hold. spanishiwa still is unimpressive imo. Less scv pulling and a earlier bunker would of stopped it cold. Show nested quote +On May 01 2011 14:21 koolaid1990 wrote:
God TLO got so bad. Please just go back to random. Show nested quote +On May 01 2011 14:30 frucisky wrote:
TLO has failed to improve I think. His macro's pretty bad all game long. His armies just so small.. Why do you guys have to be so BM? Just enjoy the games for what they are. Everyone can have a bad day, and it's not like he was playing cross server or had a TL event coming up in a few minutes. Point is you don't know either of our situations, so don't be so quick to judge.
You are so manner man. Fair enough. Great games :D
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+ Show Spoiler +TLO's macro is fine, it's just getting shut down by Spanishiwa, that's what happens when you get dropped to 34 odd workers on 3 bases from 12 simultaneous fungals on your mineral lines.
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games are beign added slow but they are pretty epic thus far! great series
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I guess I will be adding Ravens on my TvZs now ... Damn you Spanishiwa!
Seriously though, zerg or sc2 in general need more people like you to shake things up.
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i cant wait to see this spanishiwa in tournaments.
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Zerg can be so scary sometimes that my average SC brain can't come up with a way to solve what some of these guys are throwing out there. I suppose a valid answer would be, 'don't let them get to that unit mix'. Ultimately, I look forward to a significant change in T and P unit mixes and battle tactics.
Ghost, Hallucination, and Warp Prism play might get some real looks maybe? I suppose something like MLG or GSL will help push this forward...
Also, thanks for hosting this. I am waiting for the uploads to all finish before I sit down and watch the entire set.
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United States7483 Posts
On May 01 2011 15:46 riboflavin wrote:
Zerg can be so scary sometimes that my average SC brain can't come up with a way to solve what some of these guys are throwing out there. I suppose a valid answer would be, 'don't let them get to that unit mix'. Ultimately, I look forward to a significant change in T and P unit mixes and battle tactics.
Ghost, Hallucination, and Warp Prism play might get some real looks maybe? I suppose something like MLG or GSL will help push this forward...
Also, thanks for hosting this. I am waiting for the uploads to all finish before I sit down and watch the entire set.
Detection would be a good start, so the units that killed TLO in games 2 and 3 (burrowed infestors and burrowed roaches) don't kill you straight up.
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Gotta love people rallying behind one of the cheesiest players in the sc2 scene so far. I remember the days when zerg would complain night and day about a lack of macro game, yet they jump on the Spanishiwa boat when he starts winning without any sort of macro prowess.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On May 01 2011 15:57 aksfjh wrote:
Gotta love people rallying behind one of the cheesiest players in the sc2 scene so far. I remember the days when zerg would complain night and day about a lack of macro game, yet they jump on the Spanishiwa boat when he starts winning without any sort of macro prowess.
Are you kidding me... He doesnt get any fighting units until 40 supply.... How is that cheesy. Hes just cost efficient with queens and spine crawlers. You need to go watch more spanishiwa : /
Spanishiwa uses a heavy harassment style to throw his opponents into submission while he gets early hive tech and mass expos. That isn't cheesy play at all. It's just under utilized tools in the zerg race.
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Spanishiwa is the pure example of "THE" macro zerg. It's why Zerg is pretty overpowered ... it's just that no one knows about it because no one takes it to this extreme.
Of course, the playstyle that he uses makes it extremely suceptable to cheese and extremely aggressive early pressure, but he handles it with a ton of static defenses.
If you play Zerg on a mathematical basis, we already know that they're extremely powerful. It's stuff like forcefield and splash damage that helps even it out.
Gogo Spanishwa for being so pro.
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On May 01 2011 15:59 EnderCraft wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2011 15:57 aksfjh wrote:
Gotta love people rallying behind one of the cheesiest players in the sc2 scene so far. I remember the days when zerg would complain night and day about a lack of macro game, yet they jump on the Spanishiwa boat when he starts winning without any sort of macro prowess. Are you kidding me... He doesnt get any fighting units until 40 supply.... How is that cheesy. Hes just cost efficient with queens and spine crawlers. You need to go watch more spanishiwa : / Spanishiwa uses a heavy harassment style to throw his opponents into submission while he gets early hive tech and mass expos. That isn't cheesy play at all. It's just under utilized tools in the zerg race.
look at his name, now his post. You're now a victim of obvious trolling. gg.
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On May 01 2011 15:57 aksfjh wrote:
Gotta love people rallying behind one of the cheesiest players in the sc2 scene so far. I remember the days when zerg would complain night and day about a lack of macro game, yet they jump on the Spanishiwa boat when he starts winning without any sort of macro prowess.
i hope you get banned for trolling. How does he cheese, his mineral only expanding into mass spine crawlers with no attacking units but Queens for the first 50 supply.. People like you ruining TL with bullshit like that...
Sorry if a mod hates my post but yeah..
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United States7483 Posts
On May 01 2011 16:13 Shelke14 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2011 15:57 aksfjh wrote:
Gotta love people rallying behind one of the cheesiest players in the sc2 scene so far. I remember the days when zerg would complain night and day about a lack of macro game, yet they jump on the Spanishiwa boat when he starts winning without any sort of macro prowess. i hope you get banned for trolling. How does he cheese, his mineral only expanding into mass spine crawlers with no attacking units but Queens for the first 50 supply.. People like you ruining TL with bullshit like that... Sorry if a mod hates my post but yeah..
Game one was pretty clearly a cheesy all-in, but Spanishiwa doesn't do it often. Aksfjh was just pointing out the fairly hypocritical comments of the community: When a protoss or a terran cheeses, it's boring, lame, dumb, and they deserve to be lambasted. When a zerg does it, he's a hero.
For the record, I have nothing against cheese, and Spanishiwa's play was impressive.
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On May 01 2011 15:57 aksfjh wrote:
Gotta love people rallying behind one of the cheesiest players in the sc2 scene so far. I remember the days when zerg would complain night and day about a lack of macro game, yet they jump on the Spanishiwa boat when he starts winning without any sort of macro prowess.
looks like this statement was made purely based on game one with no prior knowledge of Spanishiwa's overall style of play
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United States7483 Posts
On May 01 2011 16:11 ScythedBlade wrote:
Spanishiwa is the pure example of "THE" macro zerg. It's why Zerg is pretty overpowered ... it's just that no one knows about it because no one takes it to this extreme.
Of course, the playstyle that he uses makes it extremely suceptable to cheese and extremely aggressive early pressure, but he handles it with a ton of static defenses.
If you play Zerg on a mathematical basis, we already know that they're extremely powerful. It's stuff like forcefield and splash damage that helps even it out.
Gogo Spanishwa for being so pro.
Zerg isn't overpowered in the slightest, but it's not underpowered either, just isn't being played properly. I really wish people would stop using the words "overpowered" or "underpowered" unless Blizzard has asked them directly for their opinion.
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On May 01 2011 15:57 aksfjh wrote:
Gotta love people rallying behind one of the cheesiest players in the sc2 scene so far. I remember the days when zerg would complain night and day about a lack of macro game, yet they jump on the Spanishiwa boat when he starts winning without any sort of macro prowess.
User was temp banned for this post.
You sure 80 drones wasn't any sort of macro, Bro?
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On May 01 2011 14:39 Spanishiwa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2011 13:35 Mojar wrote:+ Show Spoiler +tlo handled that game 1 cheese so poorly, the cheese was terrible and incredibly easy to hold. spanishiwa still is unimpressive imo. Less scv pulling and a earlier bunker would of stopped it cold. Show nested quote +On May 01 2011 14:21 koolaid1990 wrote:
God TLO got so bad. Please just go back to random. Show nested quote +On May 01 2011 14:30 frucisky wrote:
TLO has failed to improve I think. His macro's pretty bad all game long. His armies just so small.. Why do you guys have to be so BM? Just enjoy the games for what they are. Everyone can have a bad day, and it's not like he was playing cross server or had a TL event coming up in a few minutes. Point is you don't know either of our situations, so don't be so quick to judge.
I guess my post is somewhat BM, but in no way am i saying TLO is a bad player (TLO is actually one of my favorite players) i just think he could of reacted better to the situation in game 1. Game 2 and 3 are pretty good showcases of your ability though, definitely improving over past games that Ive watched.
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On May 01 2011 16:11 ScythedBlade wrote:
Spanishiwa is the pure example of "THE" macro zerg. It's why Zerg is pretty overpowered ... it's just that no one knows about it because no one takes it to this extreme.
Of course, the playstyle that he uses makes it extremely suceptable to cheese and extremely aggressive early pressure, but he handles it with a ton of static defenses.
If you play Zerg on a mathematical basis, we already know that they're extremely powerful. It's stuff like forcefield and splash damage that helps even it out.
Gogo Spanishwa for being so pro.
The build he created is now a staple build and many zergs on the ladder (including myself) now use/love it. It is another way to play zerg, although calling it op is a bit exaggerated, as he gives up map control and scouting early game, which is one of zergs strengths, and wastes money on an above average amount of static defences. Im just glad to see a player being innovative and taking the game to the next level.
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On May 01 2011 16:11 ScythedBlade wrote:
Spanishiwa is the pure example of "THE" macro zerg. It's why Zerg is pretty overpowered ... it's just that no one knows about it because no one takes it to this extreme.
Of course, the playstyle that he uses makes it extremely suceptable to cheese and extremely aggressive early pressure, but he handles it with a ton of static defenses.
If you play Zerg on a mathematical basis, we already know that they're extremely powerful. It's stuff like forcefield and splash damage that helps even it out.
Gogo Spanishwa for being so pro.
rofl u say this, but over time, terrans will find out how to deal with it. Just like how zergs learned how to deal with 2 rax. Or Zergs deal with 3 sentry expands. Or when protoss thought mass mutas was op. Why do you think the hundreds of brains in korea europe and US dont play like spanishwa? u think the many paid coaches in korea didnt know about this "new" type of build? Do you think spanishwa is just a genius? nope. Its because this stuff doesnt work at the highest level, TLO is at a pretty high level but hes just playing horrific
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Is this really TLO playing? I mean I know Spanishiwa is really good but I didn't know he was THAT good. o_O
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Spanishiwa Definitely needs to start playing in major tournaments.
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geez spanishiwa playing goood!
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On May 01 2011 17:26 Shackadeemus wrote:
Spanishiwa Definitely needs to start playing in major tournaments.
The sad part is he doesn't really consider himself a progamer... XD I've heard him say it on his stream. Such a shame... He should truly consider it.
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Actually Spanishiwa has a very good micro, wonder how this playstyle works with 100 APM, will definitely try :-D. Great games, refreshing
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Spanishiwa rlly lets me think about switching my gamestyle
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We're still only at the 3rd game? Any info on when the rest will be up?
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Terran should get sensor towers against these burrowed Infestor shenanigans
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On May 01 2011 18:07 tyCe wrote:
Terran should get sensor towers against these burrowed Infestor shenanigans
i dont think sensor tower can see burrowed or invisible untis, do they ?
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On May 01 2011 18:07 tyCe wrote:
Terran should get sensor towers against these burrowed Infestor shenanigans
Hm..
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Seems like T will have to go for detection blindly :-).
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On May 01 2011 18:09 BlACKTrA wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2011 18:07 tyCe wrote:
Terran should get sensor towers against these burrowed Infestor shenanigans i dont think sensor tower can see burrowed oder invisible untis, do they ?
They don't see burrowed or invisible units, so sensor tower wouldn't do anything.
Also, when's game 4 gonna be up? I hope soon. :D
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Please whoever organizes showmatches/tournaments always put results in spoiler tags in OP. I can't watch the games until way later and it's annoying trying to determine the result from the posts in the thread.
Can anybody PM me or spoiler tag me the results so far? Thanks in advance.
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Anyone else surprised that Husky is tolerable now? There's a marked improvement in his casting since the beta. Here's to hoping he stops introducing himself as h to the usky husky.
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Daaaaaaaaamn. The 3 base simultaneous infestor worker harrass in game 2 was possibly the pimpest thing I have ever seen.
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On May 01 2011 18:19 Talin wrote:Can anybody PM me or spoiler tag me the results so far? Thanks in advance.
After three maps
+ Show Spoiler +
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Now I don't know Korean, but from rough Google Translator, it looks like on the PlayXP (korean teamliquid from what I understand) site they are just starting to talk about Spanishiwa's build, and they are all think it's trash, it's pretty funny how flippant they are.
Great games. Want moar!
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I was expecting these to be up by now dammit =(
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According to his channel, he uploaded the first 3 games 14, 13, and 10 hours ago, respectively. I think the 'uploading' in the spoilers isn't based on anything. Husky might not even have finished casting the other games from the replays yet :x
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surprisingly solid play by spanishiwa in game 3; i mean, he's good, not top, but still - he lacks in decisions and timings somewhat and he seems to get confused often on how to counter this or taht build or transition (lack of experience to blame mostly i guess) - but he just played an outstanding game, very high level, i love to see how much he's improving now his fame is getting him better practice partners, advice from more experienced players, and opportunities to play at the top level of sc2.
granted, tlo wasn't in top form, not playing as safe as he should have, but it was an amazing game nonetheless.
looking forward to the next four sets, so far this showmatch definitely lived up to the hype, gg to the people who spammed forums and emails so that this event could take place.
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+ Show Spoiler +TLO Getting Outclassed by Spanishiwa, Has he finally met his match in Creativity?! Only one way to come back! Bring in the Nukes!
EDIT: Spanishiwa probably has the closest mindset to "Zerg Mentality" Ive seen. Greedy little zergs.
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On May 01 2011 20:35 NagatoYuki wrote:+ Show Spoiler +TLO Getting Outclassed by Spanishiwa, Has he finally met his match in Creativity?! Only one way to come back! Bring in the Nukes!
EDIT: Spanishiwa probably has the closest mindset to "Zerg Mentality" Ive seen. Greedy little zergs .
spoiler please.
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On shakuras, labeling that BO as the "spanishiwa style" while staring at the one ectractor that goes up at 28 supply. Not thinking very much while talking it seems.
Also "I guess he doesn't have the upgrade for that regen(erat)ing hp yet" was one facepalm moment.
Nevertheless, thanks for the links. Funny how the YouTube crowd of Terran players is now complaining about infestors :o
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Spanishiwa's harassment is becoming sooo good, he's using every single mechanic Zerg has to the fullest and his unit control seems to be getting better every game too.
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I find Span really impressive since he does things I would never be able to do micro and macrowise, and I have played SC for 12 years. I think that is why I think I have never seen a recommended game where P wins a PvZ, since how P is designed it seldom looks hard to pull off, even if it is (just subtle).
Brings back memories of pro BW where you sat in awe watching Korean pro's do stuff you would never pull off even if you practiced your whole life.
Sadly Span say he is no progamer, and so, he will probably not be able to match the pro's and fade from the scene, because to compete with the best you need to become a pro and practice all day. But hopefully Span will inspire a pro to become what Spanishiwa said he won't be himself.
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On May 01 2011 16:11 ScythedBlade wrote:
Spanishiwa is the pure example of "THE" macro zerg. It's why Zerg is pretty overpowered ...
Don't go there, just don't.
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On May 01 2011 14:39 Spanishiwa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2011 13:35 Mojar wrote:+ Show Spoiler +tlo handled that game 1 cheese so poorly, the cheese was terrible and incredibly easy to hold. spanishiwa still is unimpressive imo. Less scv pulling and a earlier bunker would of stopped it cold. Show nested quote +On May 01 2011 14:21 koolaid1990 wrote:
God TLO got so bad. Please just go back to random. Show nested quote +On May 01 2011 14:30 frucisky wrote:
TLO has failed to improve I think. His macro's pretty bad all game long. His armies just so small.. Why do you guys have to be so BM? Just enjoy the games for what they are. Everyone can have a bad day, and it's not like he was playing cross server or had a TL event coming up in a few minutes. Point is you don't know either of our situations, so don't be so quick to judge.
People want to discuss games. If there was vods but no community, there would not be a lot of viewers. So actually when viewers express their opiniions in threads it is a good thing for the community. And no they are not bm, they are as I said just writing what they think is the truth.
Cross server is not a argument as well, and I am sure the TL event is a non factor as well.
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On May 01 2011 20:42 Citrone wrote:
Also "I guess he doesn't have the upgrade for that regen(erat)ing hp yet" was one facepalm moment.
Yeh, I groaned. 
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On May 01 2011 21:10 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2011 14:39 Spanishiwa wrote:On May 01 2011 13:35 Mojar wrote:+ Show Spoiler +tlo handled that game 1 cheese so poorly, the cheese was terrible and incredibly easy to hold. spanishiwa still is unimpressive imo. Less scv pulling and a earlier bunker would of stopped it cold. On May 01 2011 14:21 koolaid1990 wrote:
God TLO got so bad. Please just go back to random. On May 01 2011 14:30 frucisky wrote:
TLO has failed to improve I think. His macro's pretty bad all game long. His armies just so small.. Why do you guys have to be so BM? Just enjoy the games for what they are. Everyone can have a bad day, and it's not like he was playing cross server or had a TL event coming up in a few minutes. Point is you don't know either of our situations, so don't be so quick to judge. People want to discuss games. If there was vods but no community, there would not be a lot of viewers. So actually when viewers express their opiniions in threads it is a good thing for the community. And no they are not bm, they are as I said just writing what they think is the truth. Cross server is not a argument as well, and I am sure the TL event is a non factor as well.
They can discuss games in a reasonable and humble manner. Calling TLO a bad player who doesn't improve in a pretty blunt way is neither, therefor they are somewhat BM (though sadly not the worst we see on forums these days). People can think whatever they want, but it doesn't change the rule that they should be respectful.
Both of those are factors, especially if one of the competitors tells you they are.
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burrow > TLO earlier missile turrets would have helped a lot for Dario.
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Spanishiwa is so sick, 3-0 against TLO, omg, I really want to see the remain games.
@clownzim, tinha que ser brasileiro...
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The game hasn't been uploaded since not all games have been played.
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On May 01 2011 20:40 thesideshow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2011 20:35 NagatoYuki wrote:+ Show Spoiler +TLO Getting Outclassed by Spanishiwa, Has he finally met his match in Creativity?! Only one way to come back! Bring in the Nukes!
EDIT: Spanishiwa probably has the closest mindset to "Zerg Mentality" Ive seen. Greedy little zergs . spoiler please.
lol? why are you reading this thread then if you don't want spoilers?
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First game+ Show Spoiler +Really came down to Spanishiwa's reaction to TLO's fast expand, and TLO was seemingly caught unprepared against the Evo Chamber rush. This was in no way a cheese. It was a smart reaction by Spanishiwa, and he also expanded so it wasn't even an all-in.
Second and Third games + Show Spoiler +Came down to Spanishiwa's masterful burrow harass. Things like Burrow and Nydus harass are so underused at the pro level, a lot of the pro players just aren't ready for it. And this isn't some kind of opening you need to prepare for, this is about practice against a style of play which very few zergs have mastered.
What I expect to see in the next games: More Nydus play to mix up Spanishiwa's harassment pattern, and some of TLO's masterful Ghost plays to shut down Spanishiwa's Brood Lord+Queen combination lategame.
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On May 01 2011 21:21 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2011 21:10 Hider wrote:On May 01 2011 14:39 Spanishiwa wrote:On May 01 2011 13:35 Mojar wrote:+ Show Spoiler +tlo handled that game 1 cheese so poorly, the cheese was terrible and incredibly easy to hold. spanishiwa still is unimpressive imo. Less scv pulling and a earlier bunker would of stopped it cold. On May 01 2011 14:21 koolaid1990 wrote:
God TLO got so bad. Please just go back to random. On May 01 2011 14:30 frucisky wrote:
TLO has failed to improve I think. His macro's pretty bad all game long. His armies just so small.. Why do you guys have to be so BM? Just enjoy the games for what they are. Everyone can have a bad day, and it's not like he was playing cross server or had a TL event coming up in a few minutes. Point is you don't know either of our situations, so don't be so quick to judge. People want to discuss games. If there was vods but no community, there would not be a lot of viewers. So actually when viewers express their opiniions in threads it is a good thing for the community. And no they are not bm, they are as I said just writing what they think is the truth. Cross server is not a argument as well, and I am sure the TL event is a non factor as well. They can discuss games in a reasonable and humble manner. Calling TLO a bad player who doesn't improve in a pretty blunt way is neither, therefor they are somewhat BM (though sadly not the worst we see on forums these days). People can think whatever they want, but it doesn't change the rule that they should be respectful. Both of those are factors, especially if one of the competitors tells you they are.
Look at every thread at every forum there are commenting players performance in sports. Calling players bad when they makes mistakes is the norm from a lot of users. If they are BM, then you need to define what being BM is.
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We try to have higher standards here
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Loving this series so far. Also great initiative to grant $100 dollars to the defeated player. Effort needs to be rewarded. Finally, I think it is really cool that Justin.tv is sponsering this, seeing as a large portion of the community use their services.
On the matches; I can't argue with what TLO is trying to do. He seems to be making the right decisions most of the time and I still think he has great variation! Spanishiwa is just so solid though ... what to do, what to do?
-- EDIT --
Wow ! Very surprised. Loved the last two games especially.
+ Show Spoiler +Macro is fantastic to look at but my personal nightmare is early pressure. Even though I am quite the fan of Spanishiwa's style, I really liked seeing that 'counter' play from TLO.
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I think if TLO rematched him, he would build turrets every game at his bases to prevent the harass that killed him.
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omg, so fun!! waiting for all the games!
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On May 01 2011 21:46 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2011 21:21 Talin wrote:On May 01 2011 21:10 Hider wrote:On May 01 2011 14:39 Spanishiwa wrote:On May 01 2011 13:35 Mojar wrote:+ Show Spoiler +tlo handled that game 1 cheese so poorly, the cheese was terrible and incredibly easy to hold. spanishiwa still is unimpressive imo. Less scv pulling and a earlier bunker would of stopped it cold. On May 01 2011 14:21 koolaid1990 wrote:
God TLO got so bad. Please just go back to random. On May 01 2011 14:30 frucisky wrote:
TLO has failed to improve I think. His macro's pretty bad all game long. His armies just so small.. Why do you guys have to be so BM? Just enjoy the games for what they are. Everyone can have a bad day, and it's not like he was playing cross server or had a TL event coming up in a few minutes. Point is you don't know either of our situations, so don't be so quick to judge. People want to discuss games. If there was vods but no community, there would not be a lot of viewers. So actually when viewers express their opiniions in threads it is a good thing for the community. And no they are not bm, they are as I said just writing what they think is the truth. Cross server is not a argument as well, and I am sure the TL event is a non factor as well. They can discuss games in a reasonable and humble manner. Calling TLO a bad player who doesn't improve in a pretty blunt way is neither, therefor they are somewhat BM (though sadly not the worst we see on forums these days). People can think whatever they want, but it doesn't change the rule that they should be respectful. Both of those are factors, especially if one of the competitors tells you they are. Look at every thread at every forum there are commenting players performance in sports. Calling players bad when they makes mistakes is the norm from a lot of users. If they are BM, then you need to define what being BM is.
This is not 'every thread at every forum'. This is team liquid and starcraft. Being a humble, badass community is what we do. Show some respect for the players and the commentators, they're underpayed and most of them do what they do for free and they have huge amounts of time invested in this.
BM = Bad Manner. Say what you would say IRL. I doubt any of these self proclaimed experts would say that a player's bad / don't improve / sucks / blabla to his face, but when it's on a forum you all of a sudden can spew out whatever you feel like. Quit it.
/rant off. Pz.
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On May 01 2011 21:46 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2011 21:21 Talin wrote:On May 01 2011 21:10 Hider wrote:On May 01 2011 14:39 Spanishiwa wrote:On May 01 2011 13:35 Mojar wrote:+ Show Spoiler +tlo handled that game 1 cheese so poorly, the cheese was terrible and incredibly easy to hold. spanishiwa still is unimpressive imo. Less scv pulling and a earlier bunker would of stopped it cold. On May 01 2011 14:21 koolaid1990 wrote:
God TLO got so bad. Please just go back to random. On May 01 2011 14:30 frucisky wrote:
TLO has failed to improve I think. His macro's pretty bad all game long. His armies just so small.. Why do you guys have to be so BM? Just enjoy the games for what they are. Everyone can have a bad day, and it's not like he was playing cross server or had a TL event coming up in a few minutes. Point is you don't know either of our situations, so don't be so quick to judge. People want to discuss games. If there was vods but no community, there would not be a lot of viewers. So actually when viewers express their opiniions in threads it is a good thing for the community. And no they are not bm, they are as I said just writing what they think is the truth. Cross server is not a argument as well, and I am sure the TL event is a non factor as well. They can discuss games in a reasonable and humble manner. Calling TLO a bad player who doesn't improve in a pretty blunt way is neither, therefor they are somewhat BM (though sadly not the worst we see on forums these days). People can think whatever they want, but it doesn't change the rule that they should be respectful. Both of those are factors, especially if one of the competitors tells you they are. Look at every thread at every forum there are commenting players performance in sports. Calling players bad when they makes mistakes is the norm from a lot of users. If they are BM, then you need to define what being BM is.
This isn't any other forum or any other sports.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=17883 (note Point 6)
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On May 01 2011 13:35 Mojar wrote:+ Show Spoiler +tlo handled that game 1 cheese so poorly, the cheese was terrible and incredibly easy to hold. spanishiwa still is unimpressive imo. Less scv pulling and a earlier bunker would of stopped it cold.
+ Show Spoiler +while I agree that TLO handled it poorly, I'm not convinced it was cheese.. I think Spanishiwa did the proxy evo as a response to TLO's very fast in base CC. Definitely all in when the zerglings came, though
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On May 01 2011 21:45 Novalisk wrote:First game + Show Spoiler +Really came down to Spanishiwa's reaction to TLO's fast expand, and TLO was seemingly caught unprepared against the Evo Chamber rush. This was in no way a cheese. It was a smart reaction by Spanishiwa, and he also expanded so it wasn't even an all-in. Second and Third games + Show Spoiler +Came down to Spanishiwa's masterful burrow harass. Things like Burrow and Nydus harass are so underused at the pro level, a lot of the pro players just aren't ready for it. And this isn't some kind of opening you need to prepare for, this is about practice against a style of play which very few zergs have mastered. What I expect to see in the next games: More Nydus play to mix up Spanishiwa's harassment pattern, and some of TLO's masterful Ghost plays to shut down Spanishiwa's Brood Lord+Queen combination lategame.
The way spanishiwa uses his broolord corrupter queen combo's pretty smart. Its usually across a large gap. I don't think it'll be easy for him to sneak ghosts in to EMP the queens. I feel like TLO's got a lot more in him than what we see on these games though! I hope he makes a comeback and starts getting ravens and detection!
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Awesome games so far.
To Spanishiwa : any idea when you and TLO would find a moment to play the remaining games ? I'm asking because it seems you're reading this post, and you completely hyped us during the 3 first games. GL to you, and GL to TLO too for the rest of the series.
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On May 01 2011 22:30 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2011 21:46 Hider wrote:On May 01 2011 21:21 Talin wrote:On May 01 2011 21:10 Hider wrote:On May 01 2011 14:39 Spanishiwa wrote:On May 01 2011 13:35 Mojar wrote:+ Show Spoiler +tlo handled that game 1 cheese so poorly, the cheese was terrible and incredibly easy to hold. spanishiwa still is unimpressive imo. Less scv pulling and a earlier bunker would of stopped it cold. On May 01 2011 14:21 koolaid1990 wrote:
God TLO got so bad. Please just go back to random. On May 01 2011 14:30 frucisky wrote:
TLO has failed to improve I think. His macro's pretty bad all game long. His armies just so small.. Why do you guys have to be so BM? Just enjoy the games for what they are. Everyone can have a bad day, and it's not like he was playing cross server or had a TL event coming up in a few minutes. Point is you don't know either of our situations, so don't be so quick to judge. People want to discuss games. If there was vods but no community, there would not be a lot of viewers. So actually when viewers express their opiniions in threads it is a good thing for the community. And no they are not bm, they are as I said just writing what they think is the truth. Cross server is not a argument as well, and I am sure the TL event is a non factor as well. They can discuss games in a reasonable and humble manner. Calling TLO a bad player who doesn't improve in a pretty blunt way is neither, therefor they are somewhat BM (though sadly not the worst we see on forums these days). People can think whatever they want, but it doesn't change the rule that they should be respectful. Both of those are factors, especially if one of the competitors tells you they are. Look at every thread at every forum there are commenting players performance in sports. Calling players bad when they makes mistakes is the norm from a lot of users. If they are BM, then you need to define what being BM is. This is not 'every thread at every forum'. This is team liquid and starcraft. Being a humble, badass community is what we do. Show some respect for the players and the commentators, they're underpayed and most of them do what they do for free and they have huge amounts of time invested in this. BM = Bad Manner. Say what you would say IRL. I doubt any of these self proclaimed experts would say that a player's bad / don't improve / sucks / blabla to his face, but when it's on a forum you all of a sudden can spew out whatever you feel like. Quit it. /rant off. Pz.
1) Ehh, was that your attempt of a making a definition?
2) Most forums where people discuss performance of e.g. sports clubs they will say that player xx played bad. I can give you tons of examples if you (as it could seem) dont read other forums where they comments on player performances.
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Great games so far.
A Husky comment during he first game gave me the idea to make a Bo7 showmatch and the prize pool distribution is governed by how many games each player wins. I mean, they're all getting played anyway, would be a cool way to make every game count. Like, with this $500 prizepool, make each game worth $70. bam, payout perfectly distributed to the player's performance.
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Spanishiwa has definitely solidified himself as my favorite zerg player. Keep up the good work!
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Was looking for something to watch and stumbled upon his channel, and found these. SO MUCH FUN.
Honestly this is why I wont pay fro VODS from NASL and the like, wayyyy too many free games out there to watch that are as good if not better.
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Wow, TLO playing max greedy and Spanishiwa abusing that fact, well done.
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Z is OP
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I wonder when Spanishiwa is going to participate in a tournament? He has a good chance of making the championship bracket via the open bracket in an MLG.
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Spanish is gonna go to MLG Annaheim or how its spelled; so no spanishiwa at the next MLG.
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On May 02 2011 00:18 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2011 22:30 Euronyme wrote:On May 01 2011 21:46 Hider wrote:On May 01 2011 21:21 Talin wrote:On May 01 2011 21:10 Hider wrote:On May 01 2011 14:39 Spanishiwa wrote:On May 01 2011 13:35 Mojar wrote:+ Show Spoiler +tlo handled that game 1 cheese so poorly, the cheese was terrible and incredibly easy to hold. spanishiwa still is unimpressive imo. Less scv pulling and a earlier bunker would of stopped it cold. On May 01 2011 14:21 koolaid1990 wrote:
God TLO got so bad. Please just go back to random. On May 01 2011 14:30 frucisky wrote:
TLO has failed to improve I think. His macro's pretty bad all game long. His armies just so small.. Why do you guys have to be so BM? Just enjoy the games for what they are. Everyone can have a bad day, and it's not like he was playing cross server or had a TL event coming up in a few minutes. Point is you don't know either of our situations, so don't be so quick to judge. People want to discuss games. If there was vods but no community, there would not be a lot of viewers. So actually when viewers express their opiniions in threads it is a good thing for the community. And no they are not bm, they are as I said just writing what they think is the truth. Cross server is not a argument as well, and I am sure the TL event is a non factor as well. They can discuss games in a reasonable and humble manner. Calling TLO a bad player who doesn't improve in a pretty blunt way is neither, therefor they are somewhat BM (though sadly not the worst we see on forums these days). People can think whatever they want, but it doesn't change the rule that they should be respectful. Both of those are factors, especially if one of the competitors tells you they are. Look at every thread at every forum there are commenting players performance in sports. Calling players bad when they makes mistakes is the norm from a lot of users. If they are BM, then you need to define what being BM is. This is not 'every thread at every forum'. This is team liquid and starcraft. Being a humble, badass community is what we do. Show some respect for the players and the commentators, they're underpayed and most of them do what they do for free and they have huge amounts of time invested in this. BM = Bad Manner. Say what you would say IRL. I doubt any of these self proclaimed experts would say that a player's bad / don't improve / sucks / blabla to his face, but when it's on a forum you all of a sudden can spew out whatever you feel like. Quit it. /rant off. Pz. 1) Ehh, was that your attempt of a making a definition? 2) Most forums where people discuss performance of e.g. sports clubs they will say that player xx played bad. I can give you tons of examples if you (as it could seem) dont read other forums where they comments on player performances.
This forum isnt like most forum. Only cause you could get away with being an ass, you are being an ass? Or do you not have mind of your own and only follow blindly what you think is the norm? Please think a little.
On topic: Good games, Spanishiwa is impressing me more and more with his style. Hopefully it will get adapted by more players. Keep up the good work Spanish.
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Didnt notice this thread until just now. Thanks for making it!
The last game is uploading now, should be ready in about 30 minutes.
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On May 02 2011 05:16 HuskyTheHusky wrote:
Didnt notice this thread until just now. Thanks for making it!
The last game is uploading now, should be ready in about 30 minutes.
Thanks as always Husky!
I've come across many SC casters including 'serious' analyzing ones. I prefer yours the best because of your general cheerful personality and self-deprecating humor. As of late, you've also grown quite adept in 'serious' strategy analysis too.
Keep up the amazing work man.
On-topic: + Show Spoiler +Wow, TLO completely outplayed 4-0. I sort of felt bad for TLO to play through all 7 games. I'm watching game 5 now and I really hope he doesn't get swept 7 games. That'd be.. just... so saddening and embarassing for TLO.
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This was just EPIC!
+ Show Spoiler +In game 4 I started laughing out loudly when Spanishwa transfused 6-7 ultras with 10 or so queens so they just never died. He broke down a wall and took out a bunch of tanks. It was just awesome!
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On May 02 2011 05:22 ArghUScaredMe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 05:16 HuskyTheHusky wrote:
Didnt notice this thread until just now. Thanks for making it!
The last game is uploading now, should be ready in about 30 minutes. Thanks as always Husky! I've come across many SC casters including 'serious' analyzing ones. I prefer yours the best because of your general cheerful personality and self-deprecating humor. As of late, you've also grown quite adept in 'serious' strategy analysis too. Keep up the amazing work man. On-topic: + Show Spoiler +Wow, TLO completely outplayed 4-0. I sort of felt bad for TLO to play through all 7 games. I'm watching game 5 now and I really hope he doesn't get swept 7 games. That'd be.. just... so saddening and embarassing for TLO.
Appreciate it .
There are actually a few major mistakes I make in this cast. The roach being one. Not realizing why the production tab wasnt showing Vikings being produced is another (because of the Overseers halting their production.)
I recently learned that 'Chitinous Plating' is actually pronounced kite-inous.
I also learned an hour ago that you can choose to display hotkeys on your production grid in the bottom right. I never knew this and it makes playing random 100x's easier.
Maybe I should know everything already, but the thing I love about StarCraft is that I will forever be learning new things. It probably takes me a little bit longer than most, but I am always looking to improve
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I'm wondering ...+ Show Spoiler +in game 2 spanishiwa at one point has 2 infestors in each bases mineral line of TLO he then continued to cast fungal on the workers at all three bases. my point is wouldnt it have been better to throw out infested terrans with all the energy into the mineral line killing scvs and maybe even the cc ??
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hehe my 2 favorite players atm TLO and spanishwa. Really hope Spanishwa gets in the NASL next season.
And btw TL give Spanishwa a contract would be awesome if he fought for Liquid!
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On May 02 2011 05:16 HuskyTheHusky wrote:
Didnt notice this thread until just now. Thanks for making it!
The last game is uploading now, should be ready in about 30 minutes.
Making the thread was the least I could do for such an epic series. Thanks for setting up the showmatch and casting the games Husky!
BTW, the map you were referring to that was similar to Scrap Station is Paranoid Android.
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On May 02 2011 05:43 Dakmaniac wrote:I'm wondering ... + Show Spoiler +in game 2 spanishiwa at one point has 2 infestors in each bases mineral line of TLO he then continued to cast fungal on the workers at all three bases. my point is wouldnt it have been better to throw out infested terrans with all the energy into the mineral line killing scvs and maybe even the cc ??
+ Show Spoiler +
Both work well, so it is really up to the player. If TLO had good awareness he could just move his workers away and float his CC away (CCs outrun infested terrans).
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WOW...just watched game 2
+ Show Spoiler +amazing work with the infestors...TLO had 73 SCV before the fungals and 39 like ten seconds later...
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Really good series ... in that the first 4 games are very good ... the rest, not so much.
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move over typical zerg players
& make room for the new g.o.a.t
SPANISHIWA!!!!
GOGO SPANISHIWA!!
excellent zerg play here,
great casting as well
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On May 02 2011 04:38 TheLight wrote:
I wonder when Spanishiwa is going to participate in a tournament? He has a good chance of making the championship bracket via the open bracket in an MLG.
Well, the only one I know of is the FXOpen Invitational series that just happened this week and last. He lost in the Upper bracket 2-0 to sCfOu and then he beat x6Mkengyn 2-1 but then lost to VTPerfect 2-1.
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On May 02 2011 04:43 koko775 wrote:
Spanish is gonna go to MLG Annaheim or how its spelled; so no spanishiwa at the next MLG.
Too bad, but very understandable. I think a lot of people forget that Spanishiwa is NOT a professional gamer. Non-pros rarely travel across the country for tournaments.
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Btw Husky big fan of yours. Btw may I recommand next showmatch White-ra vs Spanishwa.
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On May 02 2011 05:01 Neobick wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 00:18 Hider wrote:On May 01 2011 22:30 Euronyme wrote:On May 01 2011 21:46 Hider wrote:On May 01 2011 21:21 Talin wrote:On May 01 2011 21:10 Hider wrote:On May 01 2011 14:39 Spanishiwa wrote:On May 01 2011 13:35 Mojar wrote:+ Show Spoiler +tlo handled that game 1 cheese so poorly, the cheese was terrible and incredibly easy to hold. spanishiwa still is unimpressive imo. Less scv pulling and a earlier bunker would of stopped it cold. On May 01 2011 14:21 koolaid1990 wrote:
God TLO got so bad. Please just go back to random. On May 01 2011 14:30 frucisky wrote:
TLO has failed to improve I think. His macro's pretty bad all game long. His armies just so small.. Why do you guys have to be so BM? Just enjoy the games for what they are. Everyone can have a bad day, and it's not like he was playing cross server or had a TL event coming up in a few minutes. Point is you don't know either of our situations, so don't be so quick to judge. People want to discuss games. If there was vods but no community, there would not be a lot of viewers. So actually when viewers express their opiniions in threads it is a good thing for the community. And no they are not bm, they are as I said just writing what they think is the truth. Cross server is not a argument as well, and I am sure the TL event is a non factor as well. They can discuss games in a reasonable and humble manner. Calling TLO a bad player who doesn't improve in a pretty blunt way is neither, therefor they are somewhat BM (though sadly not the worst we see on forums these days). People can think whatever they want, but it doesn't change the rule that they should be respectful. Both of those are factors, especially if one of the competitors tells you they are. Look at every thread at every forum there are commenting players performance in sports. Calling players bad when they makes mistakes is the norm from a lot of users. If they are BM, then you need to define what being BM is. This is not 'every thread at every forum'. This is team liquid and starcraft. Being a humble, badass community is what we do. Show some respect for the players and the commentators, they're underpayed and most of them do what they do for free and they have huge amounts of time invested in this. BM = Bad Manner. Say what you would say IRL. I doubt any of these self proclaimed experts would say that a player's bad / don't improve / sucks / blabla to his face, but when it's on a forum you all of a sudden can spew out whatever you feel like. Quit it. /rant off. Pz. 1) Ehh, was that your attempt of a making a definition? 2) Most forums where people discuss performance of e.g. sports clubs they will say that player xx played bad. I can give you tons of examples if you (as it could seem) dont read other forums where they comments on player performances. This forum isnt like most forum. Only cause you could get away with being an ass, you are being an ass? Or do you not have mind of your own and only follow blindly what you think is the norm? Please think a little. On topic: Good games, Spanishiwa is impressing me more and more with his style. Hopefully it will get adapted by more players. Keep up the good work Spanish.
I dont think you read my comment, or at least you have not understood it.
Btw. love Spanishwas style. Makes me want to play zerg.
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Great Showmatch. Really entertaining.
Congrats Spanishiwa.^^
And tomorrow he have another awesome showmatch: IdrA vs FXOSheth! Can't wait! :D
Thread here
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Amazing brutal awsome game 4. It almost looked like a Funday Monday.
Great series overall, gj Husky, TLO and Spahishwa!
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Finally a showmatch that really emphasises the "show" part, really fun to watch, thanks to Spanishiwa, Husky, the sponsors and of course + Show Spoiler +TLO for being the fall guy!
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Wow those were great games.
+ Show Spoiler +
The fact that spanishiwa can take TLO 4-0 is actually quite impressive, most of his play is also just great basics (scouting, when to drone, overlord and ling placement, using cost efficient units like queens and spines).
A misread cost him g6 (should have dropped 2-3 more spines asap and gotten more lings).
I wouldn't be surprised if he influenced the top zergs, the fact that they don't use burrow (whether for roach, infestor or saving lings) or queens to their full potential has been brought up before but this is the most convincing use I have seen of those zerg mechanics. This is especially true for the burrowed roaches in ZvT, they act a lot like dts (force scans or turrets, pin the Terran in his base until he gets ravens or is ready to spend a ton of scans) for a much lower cost. The simple fact is a Terran can't afford to spam scans just in case (and remember, burrowed roaches are only visible while moving so they can be used as traps) and it only takes a few roaches to snipe a tank and run away.
People in this thread are saying that TLO needed turrets or a raven but forcing terrans to blindly go turrets is actually pretty brutal on their economy and ravens are a pain to get (and not that hard to snipe off).
I really want to see Spanishiwa in major tournaments ...
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+ Show Spoiler +It'd be interesting to see how these games would've gone if TLO opted not to try and match Spanishiwa's macro from the get-go. Maybe some more all in-ish behavior, or a delayed first expansion with some more pressure. Really cool games, though.
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+ Show Spoiler +I'm kind of speechless that TLO got 4-0'd. TLO is no push over at all. But it looked like he got totally out classed... Well played Spanishiwa.
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I have a question. Moving burrowed units (Infestors & Roaches) STILL HAVE a visual 'blur' right? (Just like DTs).
I thought it was bold moving the Roaches right through the main army without getting noticed. Can anyone confirm?
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On May 02 2011 06:52 ArghUScaredMe wrote:
I have a question. Moving burrowed units (Infestors & Roaches) STILL HAVE a visual 'blur' right? (Just like DTs).
I thought it was bold moving the Roaches right through the main army without getting noticed. Can anyone confirm?
The ground looks a bit darker when you move burrowed units. Its not as noticable as a blur of a DT imo, but still if you suspect that it might happen it shouldn't be too hard to spot.
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Went into this showmatch a big TLO fan, and came out a big TLO and Spanishiwa fan. Very impressive play, hope to see him in more tournaments in the future.
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On May 02 2011 06:56 echuchee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 06:52 ArghUScaredMe wrote:
I have a question. Moving burrowed units (Infestors & Roaches) STILL HAVE a visual 'blur' right? (Just like DTs).
I thought it was bold moving the Roaches right through the main army without getting noticed. Can anyone confirm? The ground looks a bit darker when you move burrowed units. Its not as noticable as a blur of a DT imo, but still if you suspect that it might happen it shouldn't be too hard to spot.
yea, unfortunately TLO wasnt too ready for it. However knowing the other player is makign roaches and infestors, you should always have a turret near each mineral line /entrance just incase.
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what a beatdown!.. Spanishiwa showing who's boss.
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Just finished watching them all. Wow.
+ Show Spoiler +I think it's safe to say Spanishwa is a better player than TLO flat out. I mean they played a super-extended Best of 7, and got 4-0'ed and 5-2'ed total.
I consider TLO as a mid-tier player (but very lovable). I wonder how Spanshiwa would fare against the Koreans or the crazy foreigners of TSL3.
Spanshiwa vs IdrA would be VERY entertaining. Can we make this happen?
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+ Show Spoiler +Damn Spanishiwa playing such awesome and unusual builds and just stomping TLO down 4-0 makes me stunned. He really plays Zerg as it should be played using all the awesome mechanics. Nydus, Mass Quenn, Infestors&Ultras. And even though he is a greedy greedy guy often he seems to get away with it most of the time.
Would be interested to see how he fares against Korean T aggression
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This series really proves irregardless of the strategy that Spanishiwa is legit.
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That was so weird.
+ Show Spoiler +As much as I love Spanishiwa, I'm having a hard time believing that was actually TLO playing. The games for him were played so standard and conservatively. Spanishiwa really slaughtered him. However, into the 5th and 6th games we saw some of TLO's early pressure builds that really punished Spanishiwa. I don't want to use these games as examples for the pro scene in general, but it seemed that when TLO went for a macro game, he simply was overpowered by the economic genius of Spanishiwa's style. Maybe for a terran, early aggression is mandatory?
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On May 02 2011 07:20 ArghUScaredMe wrote:Just finished watching them all. Wow. + Show Spoiler +I think it's safe to say Spanishwa is a better player than TLO flat out. I mean they played a super-extended Best of 7, and got 4-0'ed and 5-2'ed total.
I consider TLO as a mid-tier player (but very lovable). I wonder how Spanshiwa would fare against the Koreans or the crazy foreigners of TSL3.
Spanshiwa vs IdrA would be VERY entertaining. Can we make this happen?
+ Show Spoiler +He's the better player because of winning a series? Are you serious? I don't want to take anything from Spanishiwa, he played great and he played better then TLO obviously but that doesn't make him a better player. He has zero accomplishments right now in tournaments. Does he even has beaten any really good players in tournaments? Again: He played great and I really enjoyed the series!
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Very entertaining series.
+ Show Spoiler +Zerg looks damn fine in the hands of Spanishiwa.
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Great series!
Question for Terran players...if you know Spanishiwa hates mutas why not go for a hellion/marauder push? Seem to be this could be incredibly effective as the hellions could take care of the drones/lings while the marauders could taken out the queens/banelings/spines/roaches.
And vs mass queen...would nukes be effective? Just not sure if the reaction time to the nuclear warning + queen speed would be enough to get out of the way. What about nukes vs broodlords? Are they fast enough to get out of the way if the red dot is in the center of their group?
Amazing stuff from Spanishiwa...unbelievable how he gets away with delaying gas so long, gets away with delaying detection (his builds seem so banshee vulnerable but aren't) and he loves to do a fast broodlord push even before his corrupters are done. His timing sense is amazing!
From TLO would have loved to see more 1 base timing pushes... TLO's 'eco-cheese' or fast expanding just doesn't seem to suit him well while aggressive 1 base TLO always seem to so much better.
For Spanishiwa I think the key counter for terran is their anti-protoss build...mass marauder with ghost support. In fact the Spanishiwa build could be quite susceptible to ghosts with the new buff planned... Ghosts could emps the queens, snipe broodlords (or even queens themselves), and a push with cloaked ghosts could take advantage of Spanishiwa's late detection. The other possible key vs Spanishiwa could be aggressive vikings which TLO seemed to have some luck with...no mutas nor hydras to worry about from Spanishiwa and the vikings can range the spores/queens to pick off overlords from the distance which slows down that high powered Spanishiwa economy and denies that all-important scouting he depends on.
If you guys don't know, Husky is taking in the comments of game 5 suggestions for future show matches... the leader so far (and my vote) would be for Spanishiwa/Idra!
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Fungal Growth, if ANY competent Zerg sees a hellion/marauder push in the making, it is the perfect counter to go mutas, especially in larger maps. Therefore, it does not matter if he hates mutas or not, he would have built them anyway. Imho, of course.
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After this series, I don't think top Zergs can make up excuses anymore for not having Nydus and Burrow harass in their arsenal.
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On May 02 2011 04:38 TheLight wrote:
I wonder when Spanishiwa is going to participate in a tournament? He has a good chance of making the championship bracket via the open bracket in an MLG.
He's played in the last FXOpen IS + Show Spoiler +Unfortunately his first opponent was sCfOu so he lost 2-0. I've seen the replay of the first game though, and it wasn't a rolfstomp at all. sC went with an abusive early Hellion/marine aggression build and eventually edged the game out purely by better micro.
I'd certainly rank him in top 20 competitive NA players right now. He's now beaten some very highly rated players in money games (all were BO7 series at least), and is actually sitting at quite an impressive prize money sum this month.
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On May 02 2011 07:23 Zorgaz wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Damn Spanishiwa playing such awesome and unusual builds and just stomping TLO down 4-0 makes me stunned. He really plays Zerg as it should be played using all the awesome mechanics. Nydus, Mass Quenn, Infestors&Ultras. And even though he is a greedy greedy guy often he seems to get away with it most of the time.
Would be interested to see how he fares against Korean T aggression
+ Show Spoiler +He was crushed 2-0 by sCfOu in the most recent FXOpen
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To Oldern,
The thing is spanishiwa really delays the lair. So if you could hide a marauder push behind some hellion harass, then you could have some luck, I would think... Lair takes 80 seconds to complete. Spire takes 100 seconds to make and Mutas take 33 seconds to hatch. That is a 3 and half minute window between the time the zerg scouts your marauders to the time you can make a push...and as a protoss player I know terran can do a fast marauder push!
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On May 02 2011 08:20 Fungal Growth wrote:
To Oldern,
The thing is spanishiwa really delays the lair. So if you could hide a marauder push behind some hellion harass, then you could have some luck, I would think... Lair takes 80 seconds to complete. Spire takes 100 seconds to make and Mutas take 33 seconds to hatch. That is a 3 and half minute window between the time the zerg scouts your marauders to the time you can make a push...and as a protoss player I know terran can do a fast marauder push!
Remember that Spanishiwa does mix up his strategies and tends to have very good scouting.
Generally 1 base Terran showing no sign of expanding is going to set off alarms (especially if they seem to be hiding tech), the most likely reaction is in fact queens (because it could be banshee). Queens do quite decently at tanking marauders or hellions as both rely on their bonus damage vs light/armored. Additionally spine crawlers, even though they do die pretty fast to marauders, also kill them very fast.
Not saying it couldn't work but I wouldn't write it off as a sure loss.
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On May 02 2011 00:20 Bobster wrote:
Great games so far.
A Husky comment during he first game gave me the idea to make a Bo7 showmatch and the prize pool distribution is governed by how many games each player wins. I mean, they're all getting played anyway, would be a cool way to make every game count. Like, with this $500 prizepool, make each game worth $70. bam, payout perfectly distributed to the player's performance.
Do you know how to do math? Please tell me how many games worth 70$ would fit into a 500$ prize pool. "Perfectly distributed" huh.
But otherwise, great matches! Very impressed with Spanishiwa's play. Not too impressed with TLO as normal.
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On May 02 2011 08:49 Lumin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 00:20 Bobster wrote:
Great games so far.
A Husky comment during he first game gave me the idea to make a Bo7 showmatch and the prize pool distribution is governed by how many games each player wins. I mean, they're all getting played anyway, would be a cool way to make every game count. Like, with this $500 prizepool, make each game worth $70. bam, payout perfectly distributed to the player's performance. Do you know how to do math? Please tell me how many games worth 70$ would fit into a 500$ prize pool. "Perfectly distributed" huh. I apparently overestimated people's ability to mentally adjust ~$500 into $490, $420, $700 etc.
Sorry that you didn't get my point. 
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United States4796 Posts
On May 01 2011 14:39 Spanishiwa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2011 13:35 Mojar wrote:+ Show Spoiler +tlo handled that game 1 cheese so poorly, the cheese was terrible and incredibly easy to hold. spanishiwa still is unimpressive imo. Less scv pulling and a earlier bunker would of stopped it cold. Show nested quote +On May 01 2011 14:21 koolaid1990 wrote:
God TLO got so bad. Please just go back to random. Show nested quote +On May 01 2011 14:30 frucisky wrote:
TLO has failed to improve I think. His macro's pretty bad all game long. His armies just so small.. Why do you guys have to be so BM? Just enjoy the games for what they are. Everyone can have a bad day, and it's not like he was playing cross server or had a TL event coming up in a few minutes. Point is you don't know either of our situations, so don't be so quick to judge.
Thank you Spanishiwa, gl hf!
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Spanishiwa's style just looks so fun, makes me consider switching from Toss to Zerg D:
Great games.
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GREAT GAMES!!
my mouth its still open. epic games! i love Spanishiwa's style so much!
i read his guide and now this videos... i cant believe it, its the funnier and powerful zerg style that i watch in the last weeks, congrats to both players!
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How does one stop that attack in g6 as Zerg?
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Wow, I play Terran and TLO is one of my favorite players...but I just can't bring myself to root against Spanishiwa. He is so entertaining. He is fast becoming one of my favorite players. Would love to see him do well in a large tournament. I hope he can qualify for IPL Season 2
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On May 02 2011 08:49 Lumin wrote:
Do you know how to do math? Please tell me how many games worth 70$ would fit into a 500$ prize pool.
7 games.
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On May 02 2011 10:41 frucisky wrote:
How does one stop that attack in g6 as Zerg?
Idra almost stopped it with banelings. It is really tough to deal with.
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On May 02 2011 12:57 Sirverik wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 08:49 Lumin wrote:
Do you know how to do math? Please tell me how many games worth 70$ would fit into a 500$ prize pool.
7 games.
Still doesn't make sense in any outcome less than all 7 games. Winning 4-0 only yields $280 to winner and $0 to loser, for example.
Better yet would be to take the percentage of games won, multiply that by the prize pool for the winner, then do the same for the loser. 4-0 yields $500 to winner, $0 to loser. 4-3 yields $286 for winner and $214 to loser.
Only in this manner are games won commensurate to prize money earned, while still accurately summed from the total starting prize pool.
edit:
nevermind. Wasn't aware all 7 games were played regardless of out-of-7 status.
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Win or lose, I'm loving Spanishiwa's play and all the variety he's showing. He's making use of units and strategies that I just haven't seen that much from the pros. Upgrades! His and Thorzain's matches really demonstrate the power of upgrades. I'm inspired to be less terrible at them.
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/switched to zerg from protoss
gg guys and spanishiwa is inspirational
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On May 02 2011 08:46 Sixes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 08:20 Fungal Growth wrote:
To Oldern,
The thing is spanishiwa really delays the lair. So if you could hide a marauder push behind some hellion harass, then you could have some luck, I would think... Lair takes 80 seconds to complete. Spire takes 100 seconds to make and Mutas take 33 seconds to hatch. That is a 3 and half minute window between the time the zerg scouts your marauders to the time you can make a push...and as a protoss player I know terran can do a fast marauder push! Remember that Spanishiwa does mix up his strategies and tends to have very good scouting. Generally 1 base Terran showing no sign of expanding is going to set off alarms (especially if they seem to be hiding tech), the most likely reaction is in fact queens (because it could be banshee). Queens do quite decently at tanking marauders or hellions as both rely on their bonus damage vs light/armored. Additionally spine crawlers, even though they do die pretty fast to marauders, also kill them very fast. Not saying it couldn't work but I wouldn't write it off as a sure loss.
How about a big mass nitro pack reaper timing push? Reapers do remarkably well against both queens and spines, they kill drones fast and can kite zerglings without metabolic boost.
Just a though.
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Damn, I'm sitting at work!
I will look at this in the evening! Will be great! Two of the most innovative players getting down together!
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Anyone else thinks the first 4 game look completely 1 sided ?
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TLO got stomped rofl
Great game though
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Amazing series, especially the first four games, really worth watching! Thanks a lot
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I'm just so happy hahaha wow
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The last 3 games were played the next day @7am for Spanishiwa + Show Spoiler +which might have had something to do with his poor scouting which in turn allowed TLO to do the 6rax rush effectivily in g6. I have a strong feeling Spanishiwas scouting and decision making is way better then what we saw in g5 and g6 under normal circumstances. And for those of you wondering what he could have done if he did scout it? Well the same thing he does vs 4g. Get 5-6 spines and a bunch of queens to transfuse. GL breaking that defense.
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On May 02 2011 15:16 Aterons_toss wrote:
Anyone else thinks the first 4 game look completely 1 sided ?
Yup.
I think people focus too much on the "build" and strategy and Spanishiwa doesn't get enough credit for improving really fast and being just a good overall player. He already looks a lot better than he did in his first competitive series vs Minigun.
I mean regardless of your initial build, when the game gets into 15-20th minute, just being smart and having a clever unit composition won't win you games against pros. His harassment and micro seem to be getting better every game/series I see him play.
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In a Bo7 he should have won after game 4, right?
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On May 02 2011 22:35 Kwaa wrote:
In a Bo7 he should have won after game 4, right?
Yes. And Spanishiwa was declared the winner after game 4. However, it was agreed upon beforehand to play out all 7 matches regardless of results, sot hey did just that.
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I would like to hear TLOs opinion on the games...
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Spanishiwa's build is relatively weak to very early pressure as seen in the FXOpen when scfOu owned him with bunker rushes. Maybe he didn't play well there. I'd like to see how he adjusts in the next tournament he attends, and look forward to other Zergs adapting the style. I know Idra has been experimenting with a variant of Spanishiwa's build to good effect in NASL. Darkforce seems to think it's too easily countered, though.
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On May 03 2011 00:07 Azarkon wrote:
Spanishiwa's build is relatively weak to very early pressure as seen in the FXOpen when scfOu owned him with bunker rushes. Maybe he didn't play well there. I'd like to see how he adjusts in the next tournament he attends, and look forward to other Zergs adapting the style. I know Idra has been experimenting with a variant of Spanishiwa's build to good effect in NASL. Darkforce seems to think it's too easily countered, though.
I think Spanishiwa has greatly improved his early game defense tactics and micro since that series. Judging by this series and his series vs. Spades, I'd say Spanishiwa is pretty damn good at holding those super early rushes with just queens, crawlers, and drones.
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WoW, 4th game!!! never expected someone could execute that style (nydus and in-battle transfuse).
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Think I'm switching to zerg now after watching spanishiwa play -_-"
Looks so intense and fun instead of protoss now
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Sanishiwa is very creative. Would love to watch him in one of the leagues.
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On May 02 2011 15:16 Aterons_toss wrote:
Anyone else thinks the first 4 game look completely 1 sided ?
Yes, and not only that, the title of being a "creative player" was lost forever by TLO, IMO.
Because we saw that in comparison to a truly creative and innovative player, he looked just a very very conservative player. Two of his wins were early marine pushes, which has been around for ages and which almost any pro can carry out.
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On May 03 2011 00:07 Azarkon wrote:
Spanishiwa's build is relatively weak to very early pressure as seen in the FXOpen when scfOu owned him with bunker rushes. Maybe he didn't play well there. I'd like to see how he adjusts in the next tournament he attends, and look forward to other Zergs adapting the style. I know Idra has been experimenting with a variant of Spanishiwa's build to good effect in NASL. Darkforce seems to think it's too easily countered, though.
It's easy for something to be made to look weak when you're playing against someone who's way better than you. scfOu is Code-S and 3-0ed his group.
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On May 03 2011 08:36 Xxavi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 15:16 Aterons_toss wrote:
Anyone else thinks the first 4 game look completely 1 sided ? Yes, and not only that, the title of being a "creative player" was lost forever by TLO, IMO. Because we saw that in comparison to a truly creative and innovative player, he looked just a very very conservative player. Two of his wins were early marine pushes, which has been around for ages and which almost any pro can carry out.
That's such a bs. TLO does creative and innovative things since beta. Spanishiwa is around like 1 month or so.
They are both fun to watch and came up with new things.
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I honestly can't wait for Spanishiwa to play in a major tourni against some really high tier players. I still love TLO but I no longer consider him an 'S' class player as he seems to be very shaky in every game I see him. Hopefully he will have a return but alas, Spanishiwa will get a wake up call when he goes up against the better pros.
Hopes to both inventive players improving greatly
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This was jaw droppingly amazing. Holy crap. Insane games making for an insane and completely unexpected (at least for me) series
EDIT: Oh wow, I didn't even know there were more games after game 4
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On May 02 2011 10:41 frucisky wrote:
How does one stop that attack in g6 as Zerg?
i actually stopped it one time with spanishiwa build.
if u are able to get 4 spines out it stops every marine pressure cold.
works best on maps like shakuras, though, its a pain to defend on maps like xel naga, meta, typhoon etcetc. ( open nats ).
i guess u need banelings and creep spread there ... and a good scout if possible ..
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great job husky...also gj spanishiwa and tlo
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Great games! Today I watched it after the GSL matches, but this series were much more brilliant and entertaining than any of the GSL stuff. I think that TLO played nice, multitasked pretty well and had reasonable game plans even the first games, but Spanishiwa was just fantastic. Great series guys and thanks for the fun.
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I am so glad to have finally seen my two favorite SC2 players battle it out. I do wish that TLO was still playing random for it but I'll take what I can get. I'm very disappointed by anyone who has besmirched either of these players in the comments above. TLO has my eternal respect for playing random against some of the best players in the world, for excelling with every race, and for creating so many new builds and styles of play for each. And Spanishiwa has recently done almost that much for the zerg alone. There are a lot of great zerg pro players out there but none that are as daring, innovative, and versatile as he.
I think that each player had 1 game where they made big mistakes. For TLO it was the first game where he seemed not to notice that there was a path between the evo chamber and his barracks and then later made the mistake of attacking the evo chamber just when he had finally completed the wall. For Spanishiwa, it was certainly the 6 rax. He clearly scouted it so I can only assume he underestimated the defense he needed, which was 4-6 spines right away. He certainly had the money at the time. I also think that game 4 may have been the best played game for both players. TLO's consistent drops, sometimes double pronged and sometimes of staggering size, was truly impressive and would have knocked out most pro zerg players imo. The reason Spanishiwa was able to defend his far-flung expansions was due to his nydus play, which is so rare to see from other zergs. For that and his ridiculous worker advantage early-game I also commend Spanishiwa.
If either of the players are reading this I congratulate you both on one of the best series I have ever watched. You each already have a very proud record of play and an admirable temperament. Cheers! :D
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TLO is capable of much better. I don't understand how anyone can judge Spanishiwa's build off this series when the games were decided by poor gameplay or an easily preventable attack.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/7473/husky2z.jpg)
Spanishiwa the extremely inventive macro Zerg, and 
TheLittleOne, long time inventive random player, recently turned Terran!![[image loading]](http://www.mrsoullive.com/images/justintv.png)
