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On April 22 2011 20:32 fant0m wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 20:24 betaV1.25 wrote:
Completly off topic but i felt a burning desire to reply:
So when you go to Code A how else can you prove yourself other then to get promoted to code S?
What more can you expect? Go to korea and win the gsl in a single shot? Um, well for one thing you can show skill, good starsense, multitasking, strategy, macro, and micro. HuK 4 gated his way to Code S, and didn't even have the micro that I expect from him while doing it.
No he didn't. His up/down was all PvP and even that wasn't all 4 gate. and he didn't 4 gate in his code a games. at least get your facts right if you're going to attack someone.
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Some observations after todays games.
- viOlet really impressed me. Ace didn't play very well, but I think viOlet's playstyle really forced him into such a situation where he was forced to make a lot of mistakes. But still, I think viOlet showed some impressive stuff in that game. Loved how he managed to win even though he failed a 6 pool.
- Ace, continues to disappoint in GSL games.
- YuGiOh beating August was pretty much expected by me.
- Min was disappointing in his win. He had a terrible Game 1, and while he played really well in Game 2 and 3, he had incredibly sloppy moments in both games.
- 3/3 Zergs through today might give some joy to those Zerg naysayers 
- I'm really curious as to why MKP and MVP both went for early mass unupgraded marines vs Protoss. The 2nd Lure v MVP game makes me question the logic of it, because even though MVP killed so many sentries and stalkers, his natural came so late and he was behind in supply when they entered the mid-game.
- MVP just shows just how good a player he is. Incredible multitasking in Game 1 and again in Game 2 (this time even showing that he can overcome a better build just by pure multitasking and mechanics alone)
- In relation to the above point, Lure was actually not that bad. He just took a risky double expand in Game 1 and lost to a better player in Game 2.
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On April 22 2011 20:36 Provocateur wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 20:31 LightWireEX wrote:On April 22 2011 20:29 Chise wrote:On April 22 2011 20:24 betaV1.25 wrote:On April 22 2011 20:15 Chise wrote:On April 22 2011 20:11 Juanald wrote:On April 22 2011 20:08 Chise wrote:On April 22 2011 20:07 Juanald wrote:On April 22 2011 20:06 R3N wrote:
Huk isn't even code A material tbh.
 Why ban? HuK hasn't proven himself so far. Maybe he will this season, but most people (including myself) doubt he will. its insult to huk... he obv practice hard and PROVED himself in code a already and was promoted to the big leagues... grow up stop hating.. Well...No? HuK didn't prove himself. Yes, he made it to Code S, but cances are pretty high that he will drop to Code A pretty soon if he doesn't improve a lot. Noone is trying to insult or hate on HuK. It's a fact that his results lately aren't on the level of most Code S players. Completly off topic but i felt a burning desire to reply: So when you go to Code A how else can you prove yourself other then to get promoted to code S? What more can you expect? Go to korea and win the gsl in a single shot? HuK just barely made it to the RO8 of Code A and then Advanced to Code S by winning a PvP, which is probably the most volatile matchup. In my opinion none of his wins on his way to Code S looked very convincing. I've not seen too much of HuK though (GSL, GSL WC, MLG), but, as I already said, so far I wasn't impressed by his games, which makes me think that he doesn't stay in Code S for very long. The thing is, you don't always win because you outclassed your opponent. As for HuK, I don't feel like he outclassed any of his opponents. Exactly. Well said. I'm sad to say this- but I genuinely wish Liquid would recruit some more and switch some players out of Korea. Ret/Haypro/HuK are not exactly...the best. They are great players, but they show little to no results every GSL. (excluding HuK) Not to mention I've heard Haypro and Ret hardly even practice, which pisses me off because they have a grand opportunity that many other people wish to have, and they're just blowing it. They're in a house with a ton of Koreans for pete's sake, they could be as good as Jinro has gotten at this point. You should totally be the new manager for teamliquid, such a clever post full of insight T.T
Clearly I'm stating the obvious, but nobody else has wanted to say it so why not?
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On April 22 2011 20:32 fant0m wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 20:24 betaV1.25 wrote:
Completly off topic but i felt a burning desire to reply:
So when you go to Code A how else can you prove yourself other then to get promoted to code S?
What more can you expect? Go to korea and win the gsl in a single shot? Um, well for one thing you can show skill, good starsense, multitasking, strategy, macro, and micro. HuK 4 gated his way to Code S, and didn't even have the micro that I expect from him while doing it. There's a big difference between being a TSL_Rain runner up and being a MarineKing runner up. Or do you think that there's nothing else that BitByBitPrime could have done to "prove himself" besides win games?
when it comes down 2 it huk proved all the haters wrong and proved hes not only code-a but CODE-S worthy.. just becase u dont like the builds he used is no reason to undermind his wins. we often see many players micro slip u cant read to much into it ... dont see why u bring up marine king and rain what about them.
~Juanald
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On April 22 2011 20:32 Zinthar wrote:
The only reason that game 2 was close was because Mvp started the game with a strange heavy marine strategy that prevented him from macroing as hard as Lure. He was pretty far behind in economy for over half of the game, but still pulled out the victory with near flawless drops, multi-tasking, and micro in each battle.
The end of the game was not as close as it appeared for a moment -- Mvp was still pulling in 800 minerals per minute in income and was no where close to being revealed. Even if Lure had completely taken out the production structures in the main, he couldn't have gotten back home to prevent MVP from destroying the rest of his structures, let alone attack Mvp''s planetary in the far south end of the map.
eh..no..the first game he 1 rax expo followed by 3 rax without gas to get the marines out..his economy wasn't really affected w/o the gas
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On April 22 2011 20:37 LightWireEX wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 20:36 Provocateur wrote:On April 22 2011 20:31 LightWireEX wrote:On April 22 2011 20:29 Chise wrote:On April 22 2011 20:24 betaV1.25 wrote:On April 22 2011 20:15 Chise wrote:On April 22 2011 20:11 Juanald wrote:On April 22 2011 20:08 Chise wrote:On April 22 2011 20:07 Juanald wrote:On April 22 2011 20:06 R3N wrote:
Huk isn't even code A material tbh.
Why ban? HuK hasn't proven himself so far. Maybe he will this season, but most people (including myself) doubt he will. its insult to huk... he obv practice hard and PROVED himself in code a already and was promoted to the big leagues... grow up stop hating.. Well...No? HuK didn't prove himself. Yes, he made it to Code S, but cances are pretty high that he will drop to Code A pretty soon if he doesn't improve a lot. Noone is trying to insult or hate on HuK. It's a fact that his results lately aren't on the level of most Code S players. Completly off topic but i felt a burning desire to reply: So when you go to Code A how else can you prove yourself other then to get promoted to code S? What more can you expect? Go to korea and win the gsl in a single shot? HuK just barely made it to the RO8 of Code A and then Advanced to Code S by winning a PvP, which is probably the most volatile matchup. In my opinion none of his wins on his way to Code S looked very convincing. I've not seen too much of HuK though (GSL, GSL WC, MLG), but, as I already said, so far I wasn't impressed by his games, which makes me think that he doesn't stay in Code S for very long. The thing is, you don't always win because you outclassed your opponent. As for HuK, I don't feel like he outclassed any of his opponents. Exactly. Well said. I'm sad to say this- but I genuinely wish Liquid would recruit some more and switch some players out of Korea. Ret/Haypro/HuK are not exactly...the best. They are great players, but they show little to no results every GSL. (excluding HuK) Not to mention I've heard Haypro and Ret hardly even practice, which pisses me off because they have a grand opportunity that many other people wish to have, and they're just blowing it. They're in a house with a ton of Koreans for pete's sake, they could be as good as Jinro has gotten at this point. You should totally be the new manager for teamliquid, such a clever post full of insight T.T Clearly I'm stating the obvious, but nobody else has wanted to say it so why not?
You also have to take into account that not all players might want to spend so much time going to Korea to participate in the most difficult SC2 tournament to get into and forego all the prizemoney going around the international scene. Ret and TLO went back to Europe because of this.
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On April 22 2011 20:37 pdd wrote:
Some observations after todays games.
- viOlet really impressed me. Ace didn't play very well, but I think viOlet's playstyle really forced him into such a situation where he was forced to make a lot of mistakes. But still, I think viOlet showed some impressive stuff in that game. Loved how he managed to win even though he failed a 6 pool.
- Ace, continues to disappoint in GSL games.
- YuGiOh beating August was pretty much expected by me.
- Min was disappointing in his win. He had a terrible Game 1, and while he played really well in Game 2 and 3, he had incredibly sloppy moments in both games.
Yeah, I wouldn't go so far as disappointing, but he still looks pretty raw with his unit control and decision making at times. Still they were fun games to watch
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On April 22 2011 20:39 Juanald wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 20:32 fant0m wrote:On April 22 2011 20:24 betaV1.25 wrote:
Completly off topic but i felt a burning desire to reply:
So when you go to Code A how else can you prove yourself other then to get promoted to code S?
What more can you expect? Go to korea and win the gsl in a single shot? Um, well for one thing you can show skill, good starsense, multitasking, strategy, macro, and micro. HuK 4 gated his way to Code S, and didn't even have the micro that I expect from him while doing it. There's a big difference between being a TSL_Rain runner up and being a MarineKing runner up. Or do you think that there's nothing else that BitByBitPrime could have done to "prove himself" besides win games? when it comes down 2 it huk proved all the haters wrong and proved hes not only code-a but CODE-S worthy.. just becase u dont like the builds he used is no reason to undermind his wins. we often see many players micro slip u cant read to much into it ... dont see why u bring up marine king and rain what about them. ~Juanald
Yup results speak for themselves always do.
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On April 22 2011 20:37 LightWireEX wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 20:36 Provocateur wrote:On April 22 2011 20:31 LightWireEX wrote:On April 22 2011 20:29 Chise wrote:On April 22 2011 20:24 betaV1.25 wrote:On April 22 2011 20:15 Chise wrote:On April 22 2011 20:11 Juanald wrote:On April 22 2011 20:08 Chise wrote:On April 22 2011 20:07 Juanald wrote:On April 22 2011 20:06 R3N wrote:
Huk isn't even code A material tbh.
Why ban? HuK hasn't proven himself so far. Maybe he will this season, but most people (including myself) doubt he will. its insult to huk... he obv practice hard and PROVED himself in code a already and was promoted to the big leagues... grow up stop hating.. Well...No? HuK didn't prove himself. Yes, he made it to Code S, but cances are pretty high that he will drop to Code A pretty soon if he doesn't improve a lot. Noone is trying to insult or hate on HuK. It's a fact that his results lately aren't on the level of most Code S players. Completly off topic but i felt a burning desire to reply: So when you go to Code A how else can you prove yourself other then to get promoted to code S? What more can you expect? Go to korea and win the gsl in a single shot? HuK just barely made it to the RO8 of Code A and then Advanced to Code S by winning a PvP, which is probably the most volatile matchup. In my opinion none of his wins on his way to Code S looked very convincing. I've not seen too much of HuK though (GSL, GSL WC, MLG), but, as I already said, so far I wasn't impressed by his games, which makes me think that he doesn't stay in Code S for very long. The thing is, you don't always win because you outclassed your opponent. As for HuK, I don't feel like he outclassed any of his opponents. Exactly. Well said. I'm sad to say this- but I genuinely wish Liquid would recruit some more and switch some players out of Korea. Ret/Haypro/HuK are not exactly...the best. They are great players, but they show little to no results every GSL. (excluding HuK) Not to mention I've heard Haypro and Ret hardly even practice, which pisses me off because they have a grand opportunity that many other people wish to have, and they're just blowing it. They're in a house with a ton of Koreans for pete's sake, they could be as good as Jinro has gotten at this point. You should totally be the new manager for teamliquid, such a clever post full of insight T.T Clearly I'm stating the obvious, but nobody else has wanted to say it so why not?
The only obvious thing here is that you know nothing about it really. You've "heard they don't practice", and that's it. You didn't even know Ret is actually not in Korea anymore. Instead of proposing a bunch of things without having any actual insight at all you should show your support for team liquid now that they're not doing so well. Leave the important decisions up to Nazgul and stop acting like a big shot just because you've "heard things".
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On April 22 2011 20:37 pdd wrote:Some observations after todays games. - viOlet really impressed me. Ace didn't play very well, but I think viOlet's playstyle really forced him into such a situation where he was forced to make a lot of mistakes. But still, I think viOlet showed some impressive stuff in that game. Loved how he managed to win even though he failed a 6 pool. - Ace, continues to disappoint in GSL games. - YuGiOh beating August was pretty much expected by me. - Min was disappointing in his win. He had a terrible Game 1, and while he played really well in Game 2 and 3, he had incredibly sloppy moments in both games. - 3/3 Zergs through today might give some joy to those Zerg naysayers - I'm really curious as to why MKP and MVP both went for early mass unupgraded marines vs Protoss. The 2nd Lure v MVP game makes me question the logic of it, because even though MVP killed so many sentries and stalkers, his natural came so late and he was behind in supply when they entered the mid-game. - MVP just shows just how good a player he is. Incredible multitasking in Game 1 and again in Game 2 (this time even showing that he can overcome a better build just by pure multitasking and mechanics alone) - In relation to the above point, Lure was actually not that bad. He just took a risky double expand in Game 1 and lost to a better player in Game 2.
I thought the 6 pool was a successful in doing what it set out to do, deny the protoss from forge FE. It would of been a completely different game if he didn't imo.
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On April 22 2011 20:34 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 20:32 Zinthar wrote:
The only reason that game 2 was close was because Mvp started the game with a strange heavy marine strategy that prevented him from macroing as hard as Lure. He was pretty far behind in economy for over half of the game, but still pulled out the victory with near flawless drops, multi-tasking, and micro in each battle.
The end of the game was not as close as it appeared for a moment -- Mvp was still pulling in 800 minerals per minute in income and was no where close to being revealed. Even if Lure had completely taken out the production structures in the main, he couldn't have gotten back home to prevent MVP from destroying the rest of his structures, let alone attack Mvp''s planetary in the far south end of the map. what game were you watching
he was behind in tech for a while, not in economy, he still fast expo'd but he just waited to move out with his orbital and that doesn't make him behind at allmy guess with the 5 barracks build is that he saw marineking do it against MC and he saw it was pretty safe against any early aggression/voidray play and then he could just transition into bio anyway obviously the main downside is stalker kiting
I was watching that game where Mvp was behind by 16 harvesters in the early mid-game. Also, yes, you are behind if your orbital is sitting in your main while your opponent has nearly 50% more harvesters than you AND has half of them working the expo (remember that after you have 16 harvesters on minerals your returns to scale decrease dramatically with further saturation, so Mvp would have still been behind even if he had more harvesters).
This is basic stuff, actually. If Mvp was even in economy he wouldn't have been behind in supply by about 20 for most of the game (prior to his amazing drops that eventually evened it out).
Tech differences in the early mid game ended up being moot because Mvp quickly teched up once he moved his 2nd orbital to his natural, and Lure continued to lead in supply during that time because of his early economic advantage.
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On April 22 2011 20:34 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 20:32 Zinthar wrote:
The only reason that game 2 was close was because Mvp started the game with a strange heavy marine strategy that prevented him from macroing as hard as Lure. He was pretty far behind in economy for over half of the game, but still pulled out the victory with near flawless drops, multi-tasking, and micro in each battle.
The end of the game was not as close as it appeared for a moment -- Mvp was still pulling in 800 minerals per minute in income and was no where close to being revealed. Even if Lure had completely taken out the production structures in the main, he couldn't have gotten back home to prevent MVP from destroying the rest of his structures, let alone attack Mvp''s planetary in the far south end of the map. what game were you watching he was behind in tech for a while, not in economy, he still fast expo'd but he just waited to move out with his orbital and that doesn't make him behind at all my guess with the 5 barracks build is that he saw marineking do it against MC and he saw it was pretty safe against any early aggression/voidray play and then he could just transition into bio anyway obviously the main downside is stalker kiting
Lure's Nexus was up a long time before the Orbital even got to the natural. Yeah, sure he had mules, but he wasn't mining efficiently on 1 base alone.
Being 10 supply down making just pure marines seems to indicate to me that you're behind in economy.
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On April 22 2011 20:40 pdd wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 20:37 LightWireEX wrote:On April 22 2011 20:36 Provocateur wrote:On April 22 2011 20:31 LightWireEX wrote:On April 22 2011 20:29 Chise wrote:On April 22 2011 20:24 betaV1.25 wrote:On April 22 2011 20:15 Chise wrote:On April 22 2011 20:11 Juanald wrote:On April 22 2011 20:08 Chise wrote:On April 22 2011 20:07 Juanald wrote:[quote] Why ban? HuK hasn't proven himself so far. Maybe he will this season, but most people (including myself) doubt he will. its insult to huk... he obv practice hard and PROVED himself in code a already and was promoted to the big leagues... grow up stop hating.. Well...No? HuK didn't prove himself. Yes, he made it to Code S, but cances are pretty high that he will drop to Code A pretty soon if he doesn't improve a lot. Noone is trying to insult or hate on HuK. It's a fact that his results lately aren't on the level of most Code S players. Completly off topic but i felt a burning desire to reply: So when you go to Code A how else can you prove yourself other then to get promoted to code S? What more can you expect? Go to korea and win the gsl in a single shot? HuK just barely made it to the RO8 of Code A and then Advanced to Code S by winning a PvP, which is probably the most volatile matchup. In my opinion none of his wins on his way to Code S looked very convincing. I've not seen too much of HuK though (GSL, GSL WC, MLG), but, as I already said, so far I wasn't impressed by his games, which makes me think that he doesn't stay in Code S for very long. The thing is, you don't always win because you outclassed your opponent. As for HuK, I don't feel like he outclassed any of his opponents. Exactly. Well said. I'm sad to say this- but I genuinely wish Liquid would recruit some more and switch some players out of Korea. Ret/Haypro/HuK are not exactly...the best. They are great players, but they show little to no results every GSL. (excluding HuK) Not to mention I've heard Haypro and Ret hardly even practice, which pisses me off because they have a grand opportunity that many other people wish to have, and they're just blowing it. They're in a house with a ton of Koreans for pete's sake, they could be as good as Jinro has gotten at this point. You should totally be the new manager for teamliquid, such a clever post full of insight T.T Clearly I'm stating the obvious, but nobody else has wanted to say it so why not? You also have to take into account that not all players might want to spend so much time going to Korea to participate in the most difficult SC2 tournament to get into and forego all the prizemoney going around the international scene. Ret and TLO went back to Europe because of this.
Actually they were just having a miserable life style there and decided to go home.
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On April 22 2011 20:44 Provocateur wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 20:37 LightWireEX wrote:On April 22 2011 20:36 Provocateur wrote:On April 22 2011 20:31 LightWireEX wrote:On April 22 2011 20:29 Chise wrote:On April 22 2011 20:24 betaV1.25 wrote:On April 22 2011 20:15 Chise wrote:On April 22 2011 20:11 Juanald wrote:On April 22 2011 20:08 Chise wrote:On April 22 2011 20:07 Juanald wrote:[quote] Why ban? HuK hasn't proven himself so far. Maybe he will this season, but most people (including myself) doubt he will. its insult to huk... he obv practice hard and PROVED himself in code a already and was promoted to the big leagues... grow up stop hating.. Well...No? HuK didn't prove himself. Yes, he made it to Code S, but cances are pretty high that he will drop to Code A pretty soon if he doesn't improve a lot. Noone is trying to insult or hate on HuK. It's a fact that his results lately aren't on the level of most Code S players. Completly off topic but i felt a burning desire to reply: So when you go to Code A how else can you prove yourself other then to get promoted to code S? What more can you expect? Go to korea and win the gsl in a single shot? HuK just barely made it to the RO8 of Code A and then Advanced to Code S by winning a PvP, which is probably the most volatile matchup. In my opinion none of his wins on his way to Code S looked very convincing. I've not seen too much of HuK though (GSL, GSL WC, MLG), but, as I already said, so far I wasn't impressed by his games, which makes me think that he doesn't stay in Code S for very long. The thing is, you don't always win because you outclassed your opponent. As for HuK, I don't feel like he outclassed any of his opponents. Exactly. Well said. I'm sad to say this- but I genuinely wish Liquid would recruit some more and switch some players out of Korea. Ret/Haypro/HuK are not exactly...the best. They are great players, but they show little to no results every GSL. (excluding HuK) Not to mention I've heard Haypro and Ret hardly even practice, which pisses me off because they have a grand opportunity that many other people wish to have, and they're just blowing it. They're in a house with a ton of Koreans for pete's sake, they could be as good as Jinro has gotten at this point. You should totally be the new manager for teamliquid, such a clever post full of insight T.T Clearly I'm stating the obvious, but nobody else has wanted to say it so why not? The only obvious thing here is that you know nothing about it really. You've "heard they don't practice", and that's it. You didn't even know Ret is actually not in Korea anymore. Instead of proposing a bunch of things without having any actual insight at all you should show your support for team liquid now that they're not doing so well. Leave the important decisions up to Nazgul and stop acting like a big shot just because you've "heard things".
Sorry, lost interest in following Ret when he was knocked out of the first round of every tournament except for assembly. And just read oGsMC's interview. He says Haypro hardly practices at all.
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On April 22 2011 20:45 pdd wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 20:34 Itsmedudeman wrote:On April 22 2011 20:32 Zinthar wrote:
The only reason that game 2 was close was because Mvp started the game with a strange heavy marine strategy that prevented him from macroing as hard as Lure. He was pretty far behind in economy for over half of the game, but still pulled out the victory with near flawless drops, multi-tasking, and micro in each battle.
The end of the game was not as close as it appeared for a moment -- Mvp was still pulling in 800 minerals per minute in income and was no where close to being revealed. Even if Lure had completely taken out the production structures in the main, he couldn't have gotten back home to prevent MVP from destroying the rest of his structures, let alone attack Mvp''s planetary in the far south end of the map. what game were you watching he was behind in tech for a while, not in economy, he still fast expo'd but he just waited to move out with his orbital and that doesn't make him behind at all my guess with the 5 barracks build is that he saw marineking do it against MC and he saw it was pretty safe against any early aggression/voidray play and then he could just transition into bio anyway obviously the main downside is stalker kiting Lure's Nexus was up a long time before the Orbital even got to the natural. Yeah, sure he had mules, but he wasn't mining efficiently on 1 base alone. Being 10 supply down making just pure marines seems to indicate to me that you're behind in economy.
Protoss double expanded..couldn't saturate both expansions in time since it was scouted straight away and didn't have enough units to stop a double pronge attack on his main and his 2nd expansion..tts how he lost
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On April 22 2011 20:35 Seditary wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 20:29 Goibon wrote:On April 22 2011 20:28 isM wrote:
I don't understand why protoss players don't put cannons around drop areas vs terran. There has to be a bigger reason than the cost (~300 minerals per base). Maybe someone can shine some light on it for me. It seems like the slowing effect it would have on drops would be spectacular. My guess is they feel they can warp in to combat it. But they don't build enough gates to accomodate this so i don't know. I find the lack of static defenses in general disturbing. Terran seem to be the only race which consistently builds turrets. Starting to see many zergs get plenty of spine crawlers these days, its crazy how much difference it can make.
Yes!
This is a great trend. Long may it continue. A couple more queens here and there and their expos will be impenetrable to single medivac drops which is something that has crippled Haypro and Ret (particularly Ret) in their recent GSL forays. Actually maybe not Haypro, he seems to lose more to weird timing attacks. But i remember a Ret series where his expos got raped all over the place on one of the bigger maps (terminus i think).
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On April 22 2011 20:45 ItsMeDomLee wrote:
Actually they were just having a miserable life style there and decided to go home.
Hmm, oh yeah, it was Idra who left because of the money. But I'm sure the prize money they'd be leaving behind had a part to do with it as well. But either way it's the same, you need some people who are actually committed to practice and endure failures (and miserable lives) for perhaps a couple of months before returns are net. Remember you only make 1.5k USD for getting first in Code A.
On April 22 2011 20:44 Pajegetc wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 20:37 pdd wrote:Some observations after todays games. - viOlet really impressed me. Ace didn't play very well, but I think viOlet's playstyle really forced him into such a situation where he was forced to make a lot of mistakes. But still, I think viOlet showed some impressive stuff in that game. Loved how he managed to win even though he failed a 6 pool. - Ace, continues to disappoint in GSL games. - YuGiOh beating August was pretty much expected by me. - Min was disappointing in his win. He had a terrible Game 1, and while he played really well in Game 2 and 3, he had incredibly sloppy moments in both games. - 3/3 Zergs through today might give some joy to those Zerg naysayers - I'm really curious as to why MKP and MVP both went for early mass unupgraded marines vs Protoss. The 2nd Lure v MVP game makes me question the logic of it, because even though MVP killed so many sentries and stalkers, his natural came so late and he was behind in supply when they entered the mid-game. - MVP just shows just how good a player he is. Incredible multitasking in Game 1 and again in Game 2 (this time even showing that he can overcome a better build just by pure multitasking and mechanics alone) - In relation to the above point, Lure was actually not that bad. He just took a risky double expand in Game 1 and lost to a better player in Game 2. I thought the 6 pool was a successful in doing what it set out to do, deny the protoss from forge FE. It would of been a completely different game if he didn't imo.
But thing is Ace actually scouted the 6 pool as early as he could, and actually got a cannon up to defend it ASAP. If what you're suggesting is true and that 6 pool completely hard counters Forge FEs, then it might be risky, but a worth it build considering every Protoss goes Forge FE on big maps.
On April 22 2011 20:50 DizzySheep wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 20:45 pdd wrote:On April 22 2011 20:34 Itsmedudeman wrote:On April 22 2011 20:32 Zinthar wrote:
The only reason that game 2 was close was because Mvp started the game with a strange heavy marine strategy that prevented him from macroing as hard as Lure. He was pretty far behind in economy for over half of the game, but still pulled out the victory with near flawless drops, multi-tasking, and micro in each battle.
The end of the game was not as close as it appeared for a moment -- Mvp was still pulling in 800 minerals per minute in income and was no where close to being revealed. Even if Lure had completely taken out the production structures in the main, he couldn't have gotten back home to prevent MVP from destroying the rest of his structures, let alone attack Mvp''s planetary in the far south end of the map. what game were you watching he was behind in tech for a while, not in economy, he still fast expo'd but he just waited to move out with his orbital and that doesn't make him behind at all my guess with the 5 barracks build is that he saw marineking do it against MC and he saw it was pretty safe against any early aggression/voidray play and then he could just transition into bio anyway obviously the main downside is stalker kiting Lure's Nexus was up a long time before the Orbital even got to the natural. Yeah, sure he had mules, but he wasn't mining efficiently on 1 base alone. Being 10 supply down making just pure marines seems to indicate to me that you're behind in economy. Protoss double expanded..couldn't saturate both expansions in time since it was scouted straight away and didn't have enough units to stop a double pronge attack on his main and his 2nd expansion..tts how he lost
Can't recall but I think he actually got his natural up and running a long time before he expanded at the 10 oclock. In fact I'm pretty certain, because I vividly remember seeing the Nexus go up as a response to MVP taking out the rocks at his third.
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Damnit, Ace choked again?
There goes my liquibet.
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On April 22 2011 20:56 Bobster wrote:
Damnit, Ace choked again?
There goes my liquibet.
He didn't really choke. He was outplayed.
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On April 22 2011 20:57 Chise wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 20:56 Bobster wrote:
Damnit, Ace choked again?
There goes my liquibet. He didn't really choke. He was outplayed.
He kinda did. Didn't have a good response to the early pressure.
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EPT
