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On April 10 2011 08:08 cujo2k wrote:
A fairly anticlimactic day's worth of games lol. Not sure what's happend to Tyler, but he's in a pretty big slump. Did he see the mass thor before he started massing colossi, or did he just see two factories and assumed a lot of tanks with a few thor would be made?
Also, whitera said, "gg 4gt push is besty" --> That isn't BM at all. He's just saying that 4 gate is the best build in pvp, and at the moment, he's right. It's certainly a lot better than 2 gate expo anyway.
Stop defending him and just accept reality. It was BM but who cares if it is BM anyways, makes things more interesting. He already showed his frustration against Sans, and now you guys all come here AGAIN trying to defend White-Ra saying it isn't BM. Incredible.
And as much as everyone says PvP is a coin flip, maybe at the noob levels. But at the professional level, it's all about micro. Whoever can reach almost perfect micro will be the victor and that alone is testament to superiority in that match up.
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On April 10 2011 11:19 ct2299 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2011 08:08 cujo2k wrote:
A fairly anticlimactic day's worth of games lol. Not sure what's happend to Tyler, but he's in a pretty big slump. Did he see the mass thor before he started massing colossi, or did he just see two factories and assumed a lot of tanks with a few thor would be made?
Also, whitera said, "gg 4gt push is besty" --> That isn't BM at all. He's just saying that 4 gate is the best build in pvp, and at the moment, he's right. It's certainly a lot better than 2 gate expo anyway. Stop defending him and just accept reality. It was BM but who cares if it is BM anyways, makes things more interesting. He already showed his frustration against Sans, and now you guys all come here AGAIN trying to defend White-Ra saying it isn't BM. Incredible.
+1. White-Ra himself admitted that he was bitter and being BM to San and people are still saying that he wasn't being BM lol.
Also I just don't get where he is coming from with the whining about 4-gates. Has he never played PvP before? What does he expect? 4-gate is the standard and if you're going to do easily scouted builds that just die to a well executed 4-gate on the given map and then act surprised and angry that you got 4-gated... it just doesn't add up.
Furthermore, acting like 4-gate vs 4-gate doesn't require a lot of skill is ridiculous.
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On April 10 2011 11:25 tarath wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2011 11:19 ct2299 wrote:On April 10 2011 08:08 cujo2k wrote:
A fairly anticlimactic day's worth of games lol. Not sure what's happend to Tyler, but he's in a pretty big slump. Did he see the mass thor before he started massing colossi, or did he just see two factories and assumed a lot of tanks with a few thor would be made?
Also, whitera said, "gg 4gt push is besty" --> That isn't BM at all. He's just saying that 4 gate is the best build in pvp, and at the moment, he's right. It's certainly a lot better than 2 gate expo anyway. Stop defending him and just accept reality. It was BM but who cares if it is BM anyways, makes things more interesting. He already showed his frustration against Sans, and now you guys all come here AGAIN trying to defend White-Ra saying it isn't BM. Incredible. +1. White-Ra himself admitted that he was bitter and being BM to San and people are still saying that he wasn't being BM lol. Also I just don't get where he is coming from with the whining about 4-gates. Has he never played PvP before? What does he expect? 4-gate is the standard and if you're going to do easily scouted builds that just die to a well executed 4-gate on the given map and then act surprised and angry that you got 4-gated... it just doesn't add up. Furthermore, acting like 4-gate vs 4-gate doesn't require a lot of skill is ridiculous.
PvP is just a matchup that isn't very fun to play in my opinion, and I suspect a lot of other protoss feel the same way, probably including Ra. Yeah, if you're a pro you need to suck it up and deal with it, but none the less, I can relate.
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On a related note, much appreciation for the TSL staff. You guys have really been on the top of your game as the tournament has been running quite smoothly. You did the best within your capabilities to deal with the latency issue, VODs have been swiftly uploaded, and the casters have been great. I know that there are some big differences between online and offline tournaments, but still, MLG could learn a lesson or two from you guys.
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Well, today was definitely a bit disappointing. Pretty straightforward and boring games. It also didn't really feel like White-Ra and especially Tyler played up to their potential.
But I do disagree with the people who've said that the TSL as a whole is disappointing. The entire ro32 was awesome! Upsets left and right, Europeans really stepping up, etc. Sure, a lot of favorites have been knocked out, but there's some great players left and it's pretty exciting to see that the tournament isn't going as people expected. I mean, players like ThorZain, Kas and Naniwa are really stepping up there game lately, and isn't it kind of exciting to think that foreign players other than just Jinro might be able to compete with the Koreans?
Anyways, bit of a bland day, but the TSL as a whole is still looking good.
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On April 10 2011 09:31 Wizdom_SC2Cast wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2011 09:18 Scrandom wrote:
Just finished watching the vod's and I gotta say I absolutely love how thorzain plays. Especially that first game, it was my favorite love the thors. I do kind of wish that tyler advanced to play mc since he said he doesn't think mc is good which is pretty funny.
As for the PvP series that is easily the most boring/not exciting matchup in all of SC2. Not very enjoyable to watch. (the PvP is boring not the players).
Edit: the intro was also so badass
Why do people constantly put words in tylers mouth?! He never said, that he thinks MC isn't good. He simply said he didn´t like his style, because it is risky at times and depends heavily on timing pushes. Tyler even said quite a few times, that MC is probably the best Toss in the world at the moment. Not liking his style is not saying "he isn´t good".
I'm not putting words in his mouth, go back a few SotG episodes. He actually said he doesn't think mc is that good
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On April 10 2011 11:51 Scrandom wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2011 09:31 Wizdom_SC2Cast wrote:On April 10 2011 09:18 Scrandom wrote:
Just finished watching the vod's and I gotta say I absolutely love how thorzain plays. Especially that first game, it was my favorite love the thors. I do kind of wish that tyler advanced to play mc since he said he doesn't think mc is good which is pretty funny.
As for the PvP series that is easily the most boring/not exciting matchup in all of SC2. Not very enjoyable to watch. (the PvP is boring not the players).
Edit: the intro was also so badass
Why do people constantly put words in tylers mouth?! He never said, that he thinks MC isn't good. He simply said he didn´t like his style, because it is risky at times and depends heavily on timing pushes. Tyler even said quite a few times, that MC is probably the best Toss in the world at the moment. Not liking his style is not saying "he isn´t good". I'm not putting words in his mouth, go back a few SotG episodes. He actually said he doesn't think mc is that good
He said he's overrated, not that he's not good. So many people say MC is god, Tyler just says hes an above average protoss with some really refined builds and a willingness to take risks
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On April 10 2011 11:51 Scrandom wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2011 09:31 Wizdom_SC2Cast wrote:On April 10 2011 09:18 Scrandom wrote:
Just finished watching the vod's and I gotta say I absolutely love how thorzain plays. Especially that first game, it was my favorite love the thors. I do kind of wish that tyler advanced to play mc since he said he doesn't think mc is good which is pretty funny.
As for the PvP series that is easily the most boring/not exciting matchup in all of SC2. Not very enjoyable to watch. (the PvP is boring not the players).
Edit: the intro was also so badass
Why do people constantly put words in tylers mouth?! He never said, that he thinks MC isn't good. He simply said he didn´t like his style, because it is risky at times and depends heavily on timing pushes. Tyler even said quite a few times, that MC is probably the best Toss in the world at the moment. Not liking his style is not saying "he isn´t good". I'm not putting words in his mouth, go back a few SotG episodes. He actually said he doesn't think mc is that good
Actually he said he wasnt impressed with him and didnt see him as a bonjwa or unbeatable because of several flaws in his playstyle. He never once said MC was bad or weak or "not good"
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MC again showing that he's the boss of PvP. Hopefully NaDa can perform well tomorrow as well :D
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Tyler never said MC wasn't good or anything close. He said that he thinks his style is not the safest and that he relies heavily on timing attacks.
I think people mostly don't disagree with Tylers opinion or the points he makes, but the way he articulates them - I can only speak for myself, but to me 90% of the time he transmits this notion of "I got it all figured out and I'm a step ahead". Throwing in the half jokingly "going to win this TSL/after I won this TSL"-remark obviously adds to it.
It's kind of hard to explain; call it over-confidence, cockiness, or whatever you will... or just call it healthy confidence and continue to support him 
He obviously has a huge fan-base from his BW days and the people who share my opinion are probably few and far between, but that's ok.
I don't want him to change at all, because players you want to see lose are just as important as those you want to see winning from an observer perspective.
Cheers,
JD
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Honestly, today's games were all very boring except perhaps for thorzain vs tyler game one. I think I've come to expect unreasonably high standards from the TSL, I'm really excited for tomorrow's games.
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On April 10 2011 07:02 starship7 wrote:
Tylers play is shiite tbh... He has room to bash mc and trickster, tylers strats and micro r crusty and nowhere near the level of the top protoss in the world
User was banned for this post.
A ban seems a little harsh.
I sort of agree that, for a guy who as critical of the strategies of the best protoss players in the world (perhaps rightfully so), Tyler's strategies are often disappointing.
Games 1 and 3 his expo was quite a bit later than Thorzain. Insisting on getting colossi against thors rather than immortals, the really gimmicky blink play, not getting charge and really bad micro in game 3. He makes quite a few mistakes in almost every tournament he's in these days.
Seems like his strategies are a little too calculated for his own good. I'd like to see more reactionary play from Tyler.
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great games and good commentary.. MC totally said glgl in the first game!
XD
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good games
cant wait for Thorzain vs MC in round of 8 :D
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I am just amazed MC was ahead on early economy every game. Is it something he does special or does White-Ra do something that's slower? Even when they were really close on the first probes and pylons, MC would have a 15 mineral advantage that ever so slowly increased as those probes came out faster. Then he gets his gateway faster and when you have a snowballing economy advantage and you are MCvP....
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United States7483 Posts
On April 10 2011 14:19 Ansinjunger wrote:
I am just amazed MC was ahead on early economy every game. Is it something he does special or does White-Ra do something that's slower? Even when they were really close on the first probes and pylons, MC would have a 15 mineral advantage that ever so slowly increased as those probes came out faster. Then he gets his gateway faster and when you have a snowballing economy advantage and you are MCvP....
It might be managing the initial probes, but I believe I saw a couple times that white-ra scouted earlier, which would explain it a little bit, since that would mean MC would have a higher income for a short time, leading to getting things built just a tad sooner, which snowballs, as the next probe comes out a tiny bit sooner, which increases income over white-ra for a short time, further increasing the lead, and it repeats.
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A ban seems a little harsh.
teamliquid.net
liquidtyler
do not bite the hand that feeds lol
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On April 10 2011 11:57 loveeholicce wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2011 11:51 Scrandom wrote:On April 10 2011 09:31 Wizdom_SC2Cast wrote:On April 10 2011 09:18 Scrandom wrote:
Just finished watching the vod's and I gotta say I absolutely love how thorzain plays. Especially that first game, it was my favorite love the thors. I do kind of wish that tyler advanced to play mc since he said he doesn't think mc is good which is pretty funny.
As for the PvP series that is easily the most boring/not exciting matchup in all of SC2. Not very enjoyable to watch. (the PvP is boring not the players).
Edit: the intro was also so badass
Why do people constantly put words in tylers mouth?! He never said, that he thinks MC isn't good. He simply said he didn´t like his style, because it is risky at times and depends heavily on timing pushes. Tyler even said quite a few times, that MC is probably the best Toss in the world at the moment. Not liking his style is not saying "he isn´t good". I'm not putting words in his mouth, go back a few SotG episodes. He actually said he doesn't think mc is that good He said he's overrated, not that he's not good. So many people say MC is god, Tyler just says hes an above average protoss with some really refined builds and a willingness to take risks
Well whatever MC is doing, he's having a lot more success than Tyler. If Tyler thinks it is THAT easy to just have refined builds, he needs to start following suit.
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I don't want to bring up the lag argument but I feel like Tyler's semi-allin in game 2 might've been more effective in game 1 since it was played on the NA server and he would have a better latency for micro. I feel like there were some mis-micro in game 2 that looked like it could be attributed in lag. Of course this is all speculative and the only one who would know for sure would be Tyler.
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EPT
