On March 21 2011 08:07 Skyze wrote: Anyone arguing Idra is better than Sen... is biased as hell, or just stuck in the past .. Hell, I think Sen was even better in BW.
Lets face it, if Sen was more known in the spotlight, it wouldnt even be a debate. In terms of SKILL and TALENT.. Sen is miles ahead of Idra.
Then why hasnt he been able to stick as well in the GSL? It's a valid question.
1. He barely lost to IMNestea in Ro of 32.. IdrA would have almost certainly lost that match too BTW. 2. He attends school in and probably makes good money in Taiwan, where SC2 is a televised sport. He had little reason to move to Korea, and thus he only played in one GSL, whereas IdrA played in all of them.
Ah yes, how could I forget that he lost to Nestea. Sheesh. It's simply not valid to bring up GSL results without looking at them closely.
IMO, Sen and Idra are around the same level overall, but have slightly different match-up advantages. Idra is slightly better in ZvZ and Sen is slightly better in ZvP. ZvT I think they're about comparable though we'll see how Sen plays vs. Boxer.
Sen has always been one of the top 3 foreigner zerg. I don't think you can say him >IdrA or IdrA< him simply because he doesn't play in that many tournaments
On March 21 2011 08:07 Skyze wrote: Anyone arguing Idra is better than Sen... is biased as hell, or just stuck in the past .. Hell, I think Sen was even better in BW.
Lets face it, if Sen was more known in the spotlight, it wouldnt even be a debate. In terms of SKILL and TALENT.. Sen is miles ahead of Idra.
Then why hasnt he been able to stick as well in the GSL? It's a valid question.
Huh sen only played in 1 gsl and lost to nestea in r32. No shame in losing a zvz to nestea. Sen just didn't want to stay in korea long term to compete in more gsl. You can't just use how far someone went in gsl as a measuring stick without any context, otherwise you will have to argue that anypro prime is one of the best for making top 4. Plus you already saw how many people talked crap about july and he made the finals. Rain also made a gsl finals.
On March 21 2011 08:18 Numy wrote: Freaking awesome sounding series. Thank you very much DarkPlasmaBall. Also Fnatic and Dignitas for giving some sick sick games.
On a side note, so sad not to see Naniwa in TSL, he is just so freaking good.
Glad I could help It's very tough to watch and write at the same time, so I hope my LR wasn't too ambiguous ^^
On March 21 2011 08:07 Skyze wrote: Anyone arguing Idra is better than Sen... is biased as hell, or just stuck in the past .. Hell, I think Sen was even better in BW.
Lets face it, if Sen was more known in the spotlight, it wouldnt even be a debate. In terms of SKILL and TALENT.. Sen is miles ahead of Idra.
Then why hasnt he been able to stick as well in the GSL? It's a valid question.
Huh sen only played in 1 gsl and lost to nestea in r32. No shame in losing a zvz to nestea. Sen just didn't want to stay in korea long term to compete in more gsl. You can't just use how far someone went in gsl as a measuring stick without any context, otherwise you will have to argue that anypro prime is one of the best for making top 4. Plus you already saw how many people talked crap about july and he made the finals. Rain also made a gsl finals.
On March 21 2011 08:07 Skyze wrote: Anyone arguing Idra is better than Sen... is biased as hell, or just stuck in the past .. Hell, I think Sen was even better in BW.
Lets face it, if Sen was more known in the spotlight, it wouldnt even be a debate. In terms of SKILL and TALENT.. Sen is miles ahead of Idra.
Then why hasnt he been able to stick as well in the GSL? It's a valid question.
Huh sen only played in 1 gsl and lost to nestea in r32. No shame in losing a zvz to nestea. Sen just didn't want to stay in korea long term to compete in more gsl. You can't just use how far someone went in gsl as a measuring stick without any context, otherwise you will have to argue that anypro prime is one of the best for making top 4. Plus you already saw how many people talked crap about july and he made the finals. Rain also made a gsl finals.
On March 21 2011 08:03 Serpico wrote:
On March 21 2011 08:03 Kazzabiss wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:56 Canucklehead wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:56 bkrow wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:49 Skyze wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:47 Asha` wrote: Ouch, Nani missed a forcefield by about a grid and just got wrapped up by lings
GG's
Sen is the best foreigner zerg, by far.. so not surprised at all he won this
Lol - IdrA?
Sen is better than idra.
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
He also thinks huk is liquid's second best player.
Huk is the 2nd best liquid player.
My liquid rankings would go like this.
Jinro Huk Ret Tlo Haypro Tyler
Haha, this can't be serious. If it is, it should be ban worthy. Tyler as the worst, really?
Haypro beat tyler in the pax liquid tourney and in a zvp I might add. Don't see anything wrong with my rankings.
On March 21 2011 08:07 Skyze wrote: Anyone arguing Idra is better than Sen... is biased as hell, or just stuck in the past .. Hell, I think Sen was even better in BW.
Lets face it, if Sen was more known in the spotlight, it wouldnt even be a debate. In terms of SKILL and TALENT.. Sen is miles ahead of Idra.
Then why hasnt he been able to stick as well in the GSL? It's a valid question.
Huh sen only played in 1 gsl and lost to nestea in r32. No shame in losing a zvz to nestea. Sen just didn't want to stay in korea long term to compete in more gsl. You can't just use how far someone went in gsl as a measuring stick without any context, otherwise you will have to argue that anypro prime is one of the best for making top 4. Plus you already saw how many people talked crap about july and he made the finals. Rain also made a gsl finals.
On March 21 2011 08:03 Serpico wrote:
On March 21 2011 08:03 Kazzabiss wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:56 Canucklehead wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:56 bkrow wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:49 Skyze wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:47 Asha` wrote: Ouch, Nani missed a forcefield by about a grid and just got wrapped up by lings
GG's
Sen is the best foreigner zerg, by far.. so not surprised at all he won this
Lol - IdrA?
Sen is better than idra.
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
He also thinks huk is liquid's second best player.
Huk is the 2nd best liquid player.
My liquid rankings would go like this.
Jinro Huk Ret Tlo Haypro Tyler
Haha, this can't be serious. If it is, it should be ban worthy. Tyler as the worst, really?
Well, he's the worst in that company which is no small feat, at least in terms of accomplishments so far. He has a good chance to change that perception in the TSL though.
On March 21 2011 08:07 Skyze wrote: Anyone arguing Idra is better than Sen... is biased as hell, or just stuck in the past .. Hell, I think Sen was even better in BW.
Lets face it, if Sen was more known in the spotlight, it wouldnt even be a debate. In terms of SKILL and TALENT.. Sen is miles ahead of Idra.
Then why hasnt he been able to stick as well in the GSL? It's a valid question.
Huh sen only played in 1 gsl and lost to nestea in r32. No shame in losing a zvz to nestea. Sen just didn't want to stay in korea long term to compete in more gsl. You can't just use how far someone went in gsl as a measuring stick without any context, otherwise you will have to argue that anypro prime is one of the best for making top 4. Plus you already saw how many people talked crap about july and he made the finals. Rain also made a gsl finals.
On March 21 2011 08:03 Serpico wrote:
On March 21 2011 08:03 Kazzabiss wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:56 Canucklehead wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:56 bkrow wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:49 Skyze wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:47 Asha` wrote: Ouch, Nani missed a forcefield by about a grid and just got wrapped up by lings
GG's
Sen is the best foreigner zerg, by far.. so not surprised at all he won this
Lol - IdrA?
Sen is better than idra.
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
He also thinks huk is liquid's second best player.
Huk is the 2nd best liquid player.
My liquid rankings would go like this.
Jinro Huk Ret Tlo Haypro Tyler
Haha, this can't be serious. If it is, it should be ban worthy. Tyler as the worst, really?
Haypro beat tyler in the pax liquid tourney and in a zvp I might add. Don't see anything wrong with my rankings.
Yeah and Tyler beat Jinro, and Haypro beat TLO. It doesn't prove anything.
On March 21 2011 08:07 Skyze wrote: Anyone arguing Idra is better than Sen... is biased as hell, or just stuck in the past .. Hell, I think Sen was even better in BW.
Lets face it, if Sen was more known in the spotlight, it wouldnt even be a debate. In terms of SKILL and TALENT.. Sen is miles ahead of Idra.
Then why hasnt he been able to stick as well in the GSL? It's a valid question.
Huh sen only played in 1 gsl and lost to nestea in r32. No shame in losing a zvz to nestea. Sen just didn't want to stay in korea long term to compete in more gsl. You can't just use how far someone went in gsl as a measuring stick without any context, otherwise you will have to argue that anypro prime is one of the best for making top 4. Plus you already saw how many people talked crap about july and he made the finals. Rain also made a gsl finals.
On March 21 2011 08:03 Serpico wrote:
On March 21 2011 08:03 Kazzabiss wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:56 Canucklehead wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:56 bkrow wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:49 Skyze wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:47 Asha` wrote: Ouch, Nani missed a forcefield by about a grid and just got wrapped up by lings
GG's
Sen is the best foreigner zerg, by far.. so not surprised at all he won this
Lol - IdrA?
Sen is better than idra.
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
He also thinks huk is liquid's second best player.
Huk is the 2nd best liquid player.
My liquid rankings would go like this.
Jinro Huk Ret Tlo Haypro Tyler
Haha, this can't be serious. If it is, it should be ban worthy. Tyler as the worst, really?
Haypro beat tyler in the pax liquid tourney and in a zvp I might add. Don't see anything wrong with my rankings.
Yeah and Tyler beat Jinro, and Haypro beat TLO. It doesn't prove anything.
Jinro is bad at tvp at the moment. Plus if you want to switch tlo and haypro around, I don't have an issue with that. Either way, tyler is still 6th in that group.
On March 21 2011 08:07 Skyze wrote: Anyone arguing Idra is better than Sen... is biased as hell, or just stuck in the past .. Hell, I think Sen was even better in BW.
Lets face it, if Sen was more known in the spotlight, it wouldnt even be a debate. In terms of SKILL and TALENT.. Sen is miles ahead of Idra.
Then why hasnt he been able to stick as well in the GSL? It's a valid question.
Huh sen only played in 1 gsl and lost to nestea in r32. No shame in losing a zvz to nestea. Sen just didn't want to stay in korea long term to compete in more gsl. You can't just use how far someone went in gsl as a measuring stick without any context, otherwise you will have to argue that anypro prime is one of the best for making top 4. Plus you already saw how many people talked crap about july and he made the finals. Rain also made a gsl finals.
On March 21 2011 08:03 Serpico wrote:
On March 21 2011 08:03 Kazzabiss wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:56 Canucklehead wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:56 bkrow wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:49 Skyze wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:47 Asha` wrote: Ouch, Nani missed a forcefield by about a grid and just got wrapped up by lings
GG's
Sen is the best foreigner zerg, by far.. so not surprised at all he won this
Lol - IdrA?
Sen is better than idra.
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
He also thinks huk is liquid's second best player.
Huk is the 2nd best liquid player.
My liquid rankings would go like this.
Jinro Huk Ret Tlo Haypro Tyler
Haha, this can't be serious. If it is, it should be ban worthy. Tyler as the worst, really?
Haypro beat tyler in the pax liquid tourney and in a zvp I might add. Don't see anything wrong with my rankings.
Tyler is raping so far in the TSL3 and HuK played like crap.
So take that into consideration when making your rankings. That being said, everyone seems to be using ridiculously small sample sizes when creating their arbitrary rankings of two or three players (A beat B in one game or one Bo3, so A is better!).
You guys should just try to stop comparing them, and just realize that they'd all beat you
On March 21 2011 08:07 Skyze wrote: Anyone arguing Idra is better than Sen... is biased as hell, or just stuck in the past .. Hell, I think Sen was even better in BW.
Lets face it, if Sen was more known in the spotlight, it wouldnt even be a debate. In terms of SKILL and TALENT.. Sen is miles ahead of Idra.
Then why hasnt he been able to stick as well in the GSL? It's a valid question.
Huh sen only played in 1 gsl and lost to nestea in r32. No shame in losing a zvz to nestea. Sen just didn't want to stay in korea long term to compete in more gsl. You can't just use how far someone went in gsl as a measuring stick without any context, otherwise you will have to argue that anypro prime is one of the best for making top 4. Plus you already saw how many people talked crap about july and he made the finals. Rain also made a gsl finals.
On March 21 2011 08:03 Serpico wrote:
On March 21 2011 08:03 Kazzabiss wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:56 Canucklehead wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:56 bkrow wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:49 Skyze wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:47 Asha` wrote: Ouch, Nani missed a forcefield by about a grid and just got wrapped up by lings
GG's
Sen is the best foreigner zerg, by far.. so not surprised at all he won this
Lol - IdrA?
Sen is better than idra.
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
He also thinks huk is liquid's second best player.
Huk is the 2nd best liquid player.
My liquid rankings would go like this.
Jinro Huk Ret Tlo Haypro Tyler
Haha, this can't be serious. If it is, it should be ban worthy. Tyler as the worst, really?
Haypro beat tyler in the pax liquid tourney and in a zvp I might add. Don't see anything wrong with my rankings.
Tyler is raping so far in the TSL3 and HuK played like crap.
So take that into consideration when making your rankings. That being said, everyone seems to be using ridiculously small sample sizes when creating their arbitrary rankings of two or three players (A beat B in one game or one Bo3, so A is better!).
You guys should just try to stop comparing them, and just realize that they'd all beat you
You can't use tsl 3 1st round as an example, since Huk had to play the coin flip pvp matchup and got cheesed out while tyler got to play a guy who let 1 zealot kill 23 scvs. Huk is also code s and has won a mlg. Any objective measure and huk comes up on top over tyler.
On March 21 2011 08:22 Azarkon wrote: ZvT I think they're about comparable though we'll see how Sen plays vs. Boxer.
BoxeR is the second lowest person on the entire ELO ranking of all Koreans vZ. Beating BoxeR as Zerg is not impressive
Boxer is probably practicing a lot harder for the TSL than you imagine. He seems to see himself as the ambassador of Korean SC 2 to the foreigner's scene so this isn't just some random tournament for him.
That being said, Boxer definitely will have an uphill battle against SEn, esp. at this state. In fact, dare I say that Boxer is the underdog in this match up. Right not SEn and Jinro is probably the only non-Korean that have a good shot at winning the whole thing. (cause you know, only those 2 had the slightest chance of beating MC)
Sen, has been one of the (if not the) best foreigner zerg in BW, (him or Mondragon).. Sen has always been very solid mechanically, but very strategic and able to ADJUST in the middle of series. You will never see Sen do the same build for 20+ games in a row.
Like people said, Sen went to school, and also didnt want to live in Korea. So thats why he hasnt played in much tourneys like the GSL (other than losing to Nestea, the best zerg in the world) .. Sen is a lot like Mondragon, an insanely talented player who has that "special talent" that someone practicing 12 hours just cant learn in "decision making".. yet they suffer from not practicing enough to stay in top shape.
This "skill".. combined with top notch Code S++ mechanics, is what makes a Flash or Jaedong. You can't have ONLY solid mechanics and expect to win the top tournaments in the world, because people will change the metagame on you so much it'll throw you completely off, and when you work on a rigid strategy and cant adjust, you get owned like MC did to July. (DT into 6gate push, 99% nexus cancel 4gate)
To play zerg, you need to have the "zerg sense". Thats why I dont think Idra should play zerg, he plays like a terran, sitting in his base waiting for the action to come to him. Zerg's biggest advantage is their mobility, and any zerg from BW knows that you can NEVER expect to win a battle head on, you have to just send waves and waves at different locations until the opponent is so picked apart and thin, you can eventually run them over. Idra plays zerg as if its BW terran, he sits back gets his 200/200 army then expects to steamroll everyone, but clearly that wont work with zerg. Then he goes and makes videos how Collosus' are imbalanced. lol.
To play zerg takes a whole different mindset. You have to be very opportunistic, and make the most out of the little timing windows that close shortly, such as Sen's muta harass on Nani's probes, he only killed like 4 probes but it forced Nani to overreact with his phoenix's and run them too close, for the corrs to take them out. After that, Sen gained map control, solely because those phoenix were taken out. From that point on, Sen knew that Nani was in "desperation mode", and built 5 spine crawlers (the proper response to knowing protoss is pushing; July take notes).. Nani had one chance, or risk having Sen take the whole map in expos and go into the long macro game (and with a zerg like Sen, you dont want to)
That small window of time when Sen sent those mutas, opened up the whole game for him. If he was Idra, first off, he would of went roach/hydra (Muta vs Phoenix?? No way!) and he wouldnt of tried any drops or anything, instead he would of tried to just build a 200/200 army. That would mean Nani still had map control, and not be under any pressure. He would be free to get his 4th, and as you know if Protoss gets his 4th secured, its almost gameover.
Anyways, my point being, Sen is on a whole nother level in terms of "decision making", and when you play Zerg, that is the race that requires intelligent strategy the most because those small windows of opportunity are what you need to win the game, the less you create for yourself, the less chance you have of winning.
On March 21 2011 08:07 Skyze wrote: Anyone arguing Idra is better than Sen... is biased as hell, or just stuck in the past .. Hell, I think Sen was even better in BW.
Lets face it, if Sen was more known in the spotlight, it wouldnt even be a debate. In terms of SKILL and TALENT.. Sen is miles ahead of Idra.
Then why hasnt he been able to stick as well in the GSL? It's a valid question.
Huh sen only played in 1 gsl and lost to nestea in r32. No shame in losing a zvz to nestea. Sen just didn't want to stay in korea long term to compete in more gsl. You can't just use how far someone went in gsl as a measuring stick without any context, otherwise you will have to argue that anypro prime is one of the best for making top 4. Plus you already saw how many people talked crap about july and he made the finals. Rain also made a gsl finals.
On March 21 2011 08:03 Serpico wrote:
On March 21 2011 08:03 Kazzabiss wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:56 Canucklehead wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:56 bkrow wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:49 Skyze wrote: [quote]
Sen is the best foreigner zerg, by far.. so not surprised at all he won this
Lol - IdrA?
Sen is better than idra.
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
He also thinks huk is liquid's second best player.
Huk is the 2nd best liquid player.
My liquid rankings would go like this.
Jinro Huk Ret Tlo Haypro Tyler
Haha, this can't be serious. If it is, it should be ban worthy. Tyler as the worst, really?
Haypro beat tyler in the pax liquid tourney and in a zvp I might add. Don't see anything wrong with my rankings.
Tyler is raping so far in the TSL3 and HuK played like crap.
So take that into consideration when making your rankings. That being said, everyone seems to be using ridiculously small sample sizes when creating their arbitrary rankings of two or three players (A beat B in one game or one Bo3, so A is better!).
You guys should just try to stop comparing them, and just realize that they'd all beat you
You can't use tsl 3 1st round as an example, since Huk had to play the coin flip pvp matchup and got cheesed out while tyler got to play a guy who let 1 zealot kill 23 scvs.
...HuK didn't get "cheesed out by coinflip PvP". Did you watch the games?
First game, he threw away unit after unit with terrible control and being overly aggressive, while Hasu had amazing blink play. No cheese at all. Second game, HuK won by having a larger army because he had a second robo and Hasu went for a third base that he couldn't capitalize on. HuK played better overall here. Third game, HuK didn't scout his own base within the first six minutes of the game. Biggest noob move ever. If he's not going to do that, then he deserved to get proxied. There was no coinflip anything. Hasu outplayed him immensely.
I like HuK, but he was not impressive during the TSL3. Not in the slightest.
On March 21 2011 08:07 Skyze wrote: Anyone arguing Idra is better than Sen... is biased as hell, or just stuck in the past .. Hell, I think Sen was even better in BW.
Lets face it, if Sen was more known in the spotlight, it wouldnt even be a debate. In terms of SKILL and TALENT.. Sen is miles ahead of Idra.
Then why hasnt he been able to stick as well in the GSL? It's a valid question.
Huh sen only played in 1 gsl and lost to nestea in r32. No shame in losing a zvz to nestea. Sen just didn't want to stay in korea long term to compete in more gsl. You can't just use how far someone went in gsl as a measuring stick without any context, otherwise you will have to argue that anypro prime is one of the best for making top 4. Plus you already saw how many people talked crap about july and he made the finals. Rain also made a gsl finals.
On March 21 2011 08:03 Serpico wrote:
On March 21 2011 08:03 Kazzabiss wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:56 Canucklehead wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:56 bkrow wrote: [quote] Lol - IdrA?
Sen is better than idra.
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
He also thinks huk is liquid's second best player.
Huk is the 2nd best liquid player.
My liquid rankings would go like this.
Jinro Huk Ret Tlo Haypro Tyler
Haha, this can't be serious. If it is, it should be ban worthy. Tyler as the worst, really?
Haypro beat tyler in the pax liquid tourney and in a zvp I might add. Don't see anything wrong with my rankings.
Tyler is raping so far in the TSL3 and HuK played like crap.
So take that into consideration when making your rankings. That being said, everyone seems to be using ridiculously small sample sizes when creating their arbitrary rankings of two or three players (A beat B in one game or one Bo3, so A is better!).
You guys should just try to stop comparing them, and just realize that they'd all beat you
You can't use tsl 3 1st round as an example, since Huk had to play the coin flip pvp matchup and got cheesed out while tyler got to play a guy who let 1 zealot kill 23 scvs.
...HuK didn't get "cheesed out by coinflip PvP". Did you watch the games?
First game, he threw away unit after unit with terrible control and being overly aggressive, while Hasu had amazing blink play. No cheese at all. Second game, HuK won by having a larger army because he had a second robo and Hasu went for a third base that he couldn't capitalize on. HuK played better overall here. Third game, HuK didn't scout his own base within the first six minutes of the game. Biggest noob move ever. If he's not going to do that, then he deserved to get proxied. There was no coinflip anything. Hasu outplayed him immensely.
I like HuK, but he was not impressive during the TSL3. Not in the slightest.
EPT
It's very tough to watch and write at the same time, so I hope my LR wasn't too ambiguous ^^ 
