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This thread is for commenting on the games. Not for balance discussions and not for commentator bashing. |
On February 23 2011 20:00 SimDawg wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 19:59 Talin wrote:On February 23 2011 19:57 KiNGxXx wrote:On February 23 2011 19:56 Talin wrote:On February 23 2011 19:55 {ToT}ColmA wrote:
glad ganzi did it, already saw the lesser player advance yesterday, dont need that shit anymore~ Which lesser player advanced yesterday? July who's not better then Mvp July is a "lesser player" than mvp? Kill me now. You realize this isn't Broodwar right?
It's a sequel to Brood War and most of the skills carry over. Both of them are ex BW players, and whatever mvp can do, July has the potential to do it eleven times better. Given that he might not be reaching that potential yet, but he is by no means a "lesser player" just because mvp had a great run until a few weeks ago or so.
Besides, July 2-0ing in a direct confrontation makes that comment even more absurd. July has
a) The better background and overall career than mvp
b) The result in the most recent games (technically a bo3) against mvp
But he's a lesser player, alright.
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On February 23 2011 20:03 FXOpen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 19:57 xmichaels wrote:On February 23 2011 19:56 FXOpen wrote:
Unfortunate that terran drops are so mobile and on big maps hard to prevent your expo from getting raped.
If the expo's didnt keep getting rine spammed haypro would have had game 2.
Bad luck haypro mate. You definitely played at your best. Its unfortunate you got paired against ganzi. Yeah and if my expansions never got attacked I'd probably be in the GSL as well Thanks for the troll.... Re-read what I said. It makes sense.. Its hard to defend a 16 rines and 2 medi without using a good chunk of your army, if you are being raped front on, you are guarenteed to lose your expo. Hence my statement about mobility. If it wasn't a himalayan trek to get to his expo, he wouldn't have had them spammed so much. Ganzi is an awesome player, and he deserved to win 100%, but he exploited mobility inefficiencies in order to take hold of the game. Of course this is the game and its how its played. But what can you do vs it, unless you hide a few bane bombs at each expo and hope for an all kill whilst you slam the front. Haypro did have a chance to win it at one stage, and he did play awesomely better than I have ever seen him play. Its unfortunate that he got paired up against someone like Ganzi.
I hear what you're saying, but the solution isn't in nerfing marines or medivacs. Zerg just need to learn to build a hedge of spines at their distant expansions, just as terrans pepper their expos with turrets.
The purpose here isn't to win against a drop (though that would be nice), but to buy time for your army (or a portion of your army) to respond.
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If you watched game 2 you should be able to recognize that Ganzi is a pretty sick terran. He looked a lot more impressive than some of the Code-S terrans IMO.
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i love how people are moaning about haypro and about how the invite was a waste, HuK himself before the draw was even made said watch out for Ganzi. If Ganzi goes on to win Code A, then the was nothing that anyone in Code A could of done meeting him in the 1st round...
Sometimes the draw sucks like this....
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On February 23 2011 20:05 hugman wrote:
If you watched game 2 you should be able to recognize that Ganzi is a pretty sick terran. He looked a lot more impressive than some of the Code-S terrans IMO.
Ganzi could very well take this tour.
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On February 23 2011 20:00 ct2299 wrote:
Is HayPro going to leave Korea yet? After 5 GSLs I think there may be better chances elsewhere.
Everyone says how the people here make excuses for IdrA whereas when it's HayPro it's his fault. Well IdrA HAS gotten further, MUCH further. After not qualifying/getting kicked out at RO64 and not making it when given a ticket to Code A, it's hard to avoid the elephant in the room.
It's stressful no doubt to play these games, but that's no excuse for losing so many hatcheries and not cancelling.
Also, while people say Ganzi's drops were in vain, he was sacrificing them to get HayPro's mutas and stuff out of position so he could snipe his hatcheries.
8 marines or whatever + medivac < losing hatchery + delaying income substantially.
Every time Ganzi did this, it was like someone stabbing the same cut again and again making it deeper, while sacrificing the same thing. Losing those units doesn't hurt too much but the effect of denying bases compounds substantially.
While I don't think it's really our business to tell players where they should and should not play, I have to sort of agree. Haypro might be pretty solid, but he's been struggling to compete in Korea. Conversely, he could really raise the overall level of play in something like the NASL. He's close to being Code A quality, and there aren't too many foreign players who can say that.
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On February 23 2011 20:01 vaTT wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 19:58 Kettchup wrote:
Haypro had one shot to win the game after he had destroyed all of Ganzi's army and still had a huge flock of mutas. Unfortunately, he decided to go after an expansion (and didn't even finish it off). I was really hoping he would go for the production facilities and try to to end it there. He didnt attack an expo. He went into the main and killed 3 turrets, scvs, 2 ebays and 2 armories. Ganzi then dropped hayder's main and pushed his army into the expos. He should have killed some rax but he had to pull back or he'd die.
That was a different point. I was talking about when he took out 4 turrets and got a planetary fortress into the red. Gave Ganzi just enough time to get a medium sized group of marines together to chase him away.
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On February 23 2011 20:04 dookudooku wrote:
I think Haypro had a pretty sizable advantage after he took out the 8 marines in the middle of the map. I wonder why he didn't get try to get a 4th base up then, when he had map control?
Hayder played well, but I feel that Idra or Nestea would have won if they played the game starting from the point where the 8 marines were cleared out. He was gambling a bit too much in hoping that GanZi wouldn't try to stop the expansions. Moving an overlord to drop creep and building a spine crawler while the expansion is going up would have helped a lot.
Honestly I thought so too, wasting all those marines, medivacs during those small engagements, I also those the zerg would be way ahead. But the combination of marines not actually costing money and haypro losing a few hatches it didnt matter in the end.
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I understand that July achieved much much more than MVP in BW, but just curious, when MVP and July made the switch to SC2, who was the better player at that point in time?
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Definatly a Fast expo.
When the nexus is half way done...
Inb4 6warp gate push.
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On February 23 2011 20:05 hugman wrote:
If you watched game 2 you should be able to recognize that Ganzi is a pretty sick terran. He looked a lot more impressive than some of the Code-S terrans IMO.
Indeed, his macro is extremely good. Every time he lost an army, he has an equal size army waiting in front of his base. And his game sense to attack the crucial points is also brilliant.
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moonglade got so lucky on his draw lol he gets to face some shitty zenex terran and haypro has to face ganzi the best terran in code a
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On February 23 2011 20:06 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 20:05 hugman wrote:
If you watched game 2 you should be able to recognize that Ganzi is a pretty sick terran. He looked a lot more impressive than some of the Code-S terrans IMO. Ganzi could very well take this tour.
well wanna see his tvp/tvt first.
but given how much he was "hyped" (evryone saying hes sick good) and how great his tvz he's def one of the mainguys to look out for.
wasnt that impressed by a unknown for quite some time.
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On February 23 2011 20:06 ondik wrote:infestors, infestors, infestors... + Show Spoiler +
I wonder if we will see a defensive infestor at outlying expansions on that map. A single infestor + some lings could at least keep the base safe from 8 marines+ medivac
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On February 23 2011 20:06 Omnipresent wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 20:00 ct2299 wrote:
Is HayPro going to leave Korea yet? After 5 GSLs I think there may be better chances elsewhere.
Everyone says how the people here make excuses for IdrA whereas when it's HayPro it's his fault. Well IdrA HAS gotten further, MUCH further. After not qualifying/getting kicked out at RO64 and not making it when given a ticket to Code A, it's hard to avoid the elephant in the room.
It's stressful no doubt to play these games, but that's no excuse for losing so many hatcheries and not cancelling.
Also, while people say Ganzi's drops were in vain, he was sacrificing them to get HayPro's mutas and stuff out of position so he could snipe his hatcheries.
8 marines or whatever + medivac < losing hatchery + delaying income substantially.
Every time Ganzi did this, it was like someone stabbing the same cut again and again making it deeper, while sacrificing the same thing. Losing those units doesn't hurt too much but the effect of denying bases compounds substantially. While I don't think it's really our business to tell players where they should and should not play, I have to sort of agree. Haypro might be pretty solid, but he's been struggling to compete in Korea. Conversely, he could really raise the overall level of play in something like the NASL. He's close to being Code A quality, and there aren't too many foreign players who can say that.
Well let's look at Haypros time in Korea shall we?
- flies in 3 days before GSL2 prelims and is incredibly sick - makes it to the final round
- qualifies for GSL3 but loses to bitbybit's cheese in the Ro64.
- Can't participate in GSL4 because he's not in Code A because of BBB
- Gets invited to Code A for GSL5 and gets one of the strongest players in the tournament first round
He's quite possibly the most unlucky player to go to korea.
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United Kingdom38255 Posts
On February 23 2011 20:07 ccHaZaRd wrote:
moonglade got so lucky on his draw lol he gets to face some shitty zenex terran and haypro has to face ganzi the best terran in code a
Err Destination almost all-killed SlayerS in the GSTL...please think just a little before you type.
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On February 23 2011 20:01 vaTT wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 19:58 Kettchup wrote:
Haypro had one shot to win the game after he had destroyed all of Ganzi's army and still had a huge flock of mutas. Unfortunately, he decided to go after an expansion (and didn't even finish it off). I was really hoping he would go for the production facilities and try to to end it there. He didnt attack an expo. He went into the main and killed 3 turrets, scvs, 2 ebays and 2 armories. Ganzi then dropped hayder's main and pushed his army into the expos. He should have killed some rax but he had to pull back or he'd die.
On these big maps it's better to take down terrans production to stop the macro and constant stream of units. In past TvZ's is saw it worked out by taking down baracks and add-ons.
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I remember a while back, alot of morons said Jinro should gtfo of korea because he sucked. unfortunately these morons are probably so moronic they do the same predictions about haypro now.
I think the teamliquid rules should have a row-of-cocks clause when making bold predictions about who's gonna succeed and not in the future.
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Oh god voidray colossus inc :o
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EPT
