EPTIt's about time the admins just accept they failed to run this event professionally.
CraftCup Weekly Tournaments - Page 19
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UnholyRai
720 Posts
It's about time the admins just accept they failed to run this event professionally. | ||
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Fireborn
Germany14 Posts
On February 10 2011 22:08 Redox wrote: Dude, its your personal opinion that their decision was a mistake. I myself think calling a regame was the right one, it should have just been done a little earlier. Obviously the admins thought it was the right decision too. So now you want them to apologize because you think it was wrong? Come on. It's my personal opinion that you don't interrupt a game in that state, even more if one player says he's going to finish it. A time limit for that would have been acceptable. Yet, this can be seen from either point of view and wasn't the biggest mistake. As you can see in the chatlog, they then told him that they have to regame with offraces. It wasn't apparent that this was a joke and it still isn't, however as he asked why he would have to regame the admin didn't even care to explain but put pressure on him leading to the final DQ. This is under no circumstances acceptable, instead of clearing the situation the admins wanted to get it over with and obviously didn't care if he could have won the game, that he was in a 1-0 lead or that he wanted to finish the game. And on top of that, this whole situation was completely in favor of beasty and we don't know yet if he wasn't the one who actually conatcted the admins in the first place and talked them into it. Apart from that, he even got bashed constantly from casters and admins. So while it is out for discussion if you abort such a game or not, by whatever standard you have, this is not a way to treat a player in a tournament. | ||
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ondik
Czech Republic2908 Posts
went through the last 20-30 minutes, pretty funny stuff, hilarious beastyqt's BM. and even though I love drama, I fail to see how should it be involved in this situation - decission was made by admins, player didn't accept it and thus got DQ'd as tournament rules say. you can only discuss the decisssion itself which I personally agree with. The game wasn't going anywhere for long time, it was practically stalemate. Had the same happened in BW proleague/starleague, the game would have been called draw lot sooner. Plus this is so bad for everyone involved - organisers, casters, audience, players. I just don't get one thing - why the hell aren't terran players in these positions making BCs+yamato? I didn't get it when it took Goody 1,5 hour to make BCs at IEM game and I didn't get it when neither beastyqt (who got 5-6 starports with techlab) nor avilo didn't make any in this game. | ||
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Bobster
Germany3075 Posts
On February 10 2011 23:39 ondik wrote:you can only discuss the decisssion itself which I personally agree with. The game wasn't going anywhere for long time, it was practically stalemate. Had the same happened in BW proleague/starleague, the game would have been called draw lot sooner. Plus this is so bad for everyone involved - organisers, casters, audience, players. I just don't get one thing - why the hell aren't terran players in these positions making BCs+yamato? I didn't get it when it took Goody 1,5 hour to make BCs at IEM game and I didn't get it when neither beastyqt (who got 5-6 starports with techlab) nor avilo didn't make any in this game. Apparently beasty tried to assault avilo's turtling with BCs and Vikings in the first game and failed. From the way game 2 progressed, it was rather obvious to me that both players were unable to cost-effectively attack into the other player's position. Army advantage on one side, economic advantage on the other side, I think it was a fair decision to rule this a draw. You say correctly that this would've been called a stalemate a lot earlier by professional organisers in BW. However, the way this decision was handled was beyond poor, there's no way around that. I personally think the 20 minute warning to allow avilo to back up his "I'm about to finish this up" comment would've been a much better solution to satisfy everyone involved (and prove that the game was indeed a stalemate because there's no way either one would've won this soon with the amount of minerals both had in the bank). Then regame, and delay the finals. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16707 Posts
On February 10 2011 11:11 UnholyRai wrote: Hence why I said a man portraying someone handicapped. It makes little difference in the end, it is still massively degrading avilo. he is NOT PORTRAYING a handicapped man. As stated IN THE TITLE OF THE VIDEO... he is portraying a man suffering from back pain and even explains how he hurt himself jet skiing caused his back problems. so with both VIDEO and AUDIO it is made 100% clear he is not handicapped. you can view anything in any way you like.. Tasteless comments about the dead marines family can be seen as "insulting to korean veterans" if you really want to go out of your way to "feel insulted". you can twist perception... reality won't budge. if you watch the entire sequence it is clear that this "back pain wayne" is Nathan Barnett a comedian from the "talking classics" series on screw attack...because we showed Nathan Barnett's most famous "4 bright buttons" video FIRST...just prior to the "back pain" video. and as i've stated before ... Avilo comedic antics on other forum boards where he has been 6 month banned before are comparable to Nathan Barnett's comedic antics.... a person in the chat room made these comments and i read them a loud on the air. i'm not going to post other forum board events though... you can go there yourself... | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16707 Posts
On February 10 2011 22:18 Keyamoon wrote: Hey calm down sir, that's just what I thought by watching the stream. that's just me! as interviewed on Imbalanced.tv, GOMAS, the CraftCup winner on this day agrees with your assessment and believes Avilo would've defeated him in the finals. we tried to get as many opinions as possible (in a limited time on air) on this multi-facted issue we attempted to get Avilo on the air however, we use skype and he only had skype on a laptop. we waited as long as we could. Avilo was calm and polite the entire time and does not seem any where near as upset as some people in this thread... i mean.. i think he realizes at the end of the day that the CraftCup tournament run 4 times per week ... so he can play again in a day or two. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16707 Posts
On February 10 2011 12:21 BloodNinja wrote: Come on man. We know you don't like Avilo. You made it a point to twice talk about how supposedly BM he is. i stated facts that occurred during a 6 month ban on another web site. these are facts not my opinion. do not context drop. Avilo seems fine to me... he invited me into games and if you watch the VOD i state clearly twice as many TANKS, RAVENS , VIKINGS etc. while Beasty had what were in my judgement "69 marines taht at this game stage have no useful purpose"... i also noted the BeastyQT began imitating Avilo Hunter/Seeker Missile late game start. we invited him onto skype for an interview to discuss the entire event... he could not get his skype working... if i thought he took any of my chat room comment repeated words seriously why would i invite him for an interview to provide his view points. again.. all of this ... my judgement of Avilo in "the lead" .. . my comments taht Avilo won game 1 are also on the VOD. . its all there man.. if you want to take 20 seconds from a one hour game and some how turn it into watergate .. .have fun  after viewing all this and considering the comments GOMAS made (a much much better judge of a TvT game than i am) after carefully examining all the facts its my opinion that i agree with GOMAS, Avilo should've won this event. film at 11! | ||
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Farone
Netherlands1219 Posts
and about the avilo - beastyqt match as being a cc ref also. I think they reacted to quickly before looking thru all options they could have done. But I dont blame them for making that decission, they had to make one, that game would have continued for hours. Avilo should've accepted that and just replayed the game. army advantage vs gas advantage, it was about as even as it could get. this is just what I PERSONALLY think about this. | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On February 11 2011 01:59 Farone wrote: there is no way you can be sure if Gomas or Avilo would have won if they both played yesterday. so saying that avilo should´ve won I disagree. Imho both had good chances to win this. and about the avilo - beastyqt match as being a cc ref also. I think they reacted to quickly before looking thru all options they could have done. But I dont blame them for making that decission, they had to make one, that game would have continued for hours. Avilo should've accepted that and just replayed the game. army advantage vs gas advantage, it was about as even as it could get. this is just what I PERSONALLY think about this. lol @ jim trying to cover up how much of a-holes you guys were yesterday. You know you weren't comparing me to a comedian lofl. You could at least man up and just apologize instead of trying to bs your way out of that one. And yeah...I didn't win...I'd still have to play gomas in the final... And no, I was clearly going to win game 2. It makes absolutely no sense to do a re-game, because the re-game can take ANOTHER hour. How is that fair to the player that has worked for 1 hr to wittle down his opponent and finally kill him? All that does is make it so one player gets to re-roll their chance to win a game that they were losing. And as for people that don't know about lategame TvT, the only thing that matters that late game in TvT is your unit composition. Your resources can matter some, but it's who kills more gas units, and who has the better army base, and who can kill the other person's army finally. Which I was about to do lofl. Oh well! You'd be surprised how many long games I have in my replay folder that are exactly like this, where the game "seems close" yet there's no point where the opponent ever has a chance lol. Anyways, if this were to happen in another tournament, you can't just re-game over and over...unless it really were a draw situation in which both players agreed neither could do anything. Re-gaming just makes another game that would probably last the same amount of time total that the current game would last if it were allowed to be finished like it obviously should have been. *common sense* + basic math | ||
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Arkansassy
358 Posts
Even Gomas doesn't know that Avilo would have won CC; however, he wasn't even given the opportunity. That's what he wanted. Admins acted hastily, Imbatv casters were insulting. At least McDuffs admitted his error in judgment. Mr. Raynor, on the other hand, just keeps making excuses. At this point, only a couple people associated with CraftCup and Imbatv have been man enough to step up to the plate and give Avilo what he does deserve and that's an apology. | ||
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dizzy101
Netherlands2066 Posts
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Farone
Netherlands1219 Posts
On February 11 2011 02:24 Arkansassy wrote: I, as several others have stated, am certain the right decision would have been (after Avilo said I'm about ready to wrap this up) to give him whatever the admins deemed a feasible time allotment. Even Gomas doesn't know that Avilo would have won CC; however, he wasn't even given the opportunity. That's what he wanted. Admins acted hastily, Imbatv casters were insulting. At least McDuffs admitted his error in judgment. Mr. Raynor, on the other hand, just keeps making excuses. At this point, only a couple people associated with CraftCup and Imbatv have been man enough to step up to the plate and give Avilo what he does deserve and that's an apology. both players were given a time limit in which they should have attacked and they both didnt | ||
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vdale
Germany1173 Posts
Admins decided for a rematch and avilo didn't want to play, so Beasty got the win. Sounds perfectly fine to me. | ||
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Usagi
Spain1647 Posts
On February 11 2011 02:38 dizzy101 wrote: Craftcup is still one of the best run tournament in the scene. How about this episode is forgotten about as soon as possible. Sadly I believe this is something hard to forget at the moment, given how the agreviated person is insulting (with actual direct insult words) casters and dishing the organization of a most usually very well run tournament. If Avilo would not be flamming more and more this scandal would cool down easily, but he seems to not want to let it die. On the other hand. How about a Goody vs Avilo Bo7 showmatch with the new GSL map pool. Anyone with the gus for that? xD | ||
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Pitons
Lithuania45 Posts
First of all about the second game: over an hour into the game avilo was slightly ahead imo. But it wasn't like he had a win in his pocket. Yes of course admins could give ultimatums to both players to finish the game, let's say in 30 or 40 min and then if nothing big happens just decide it's a stalemate, but I don't believe 30 min would have helped much. To decide a winner it would have needed to take another 2-3 hours. And regarding the fact the tournament can't last forever it was a good and best decision. Props to admins. Hard decision, maybe not the best theoretically, but best given the circumstances. And about that man with a back pain or handicapped stuff - even if there were some comparisons it was a joke. Actually me myself sit in imbalanced.tv chat and the chat is hilarious - we joke about anybody and everything. Casters have a very good sense of humor. I have no doubt there were no tries to insult avilo. He's a very good player and has a very unique playing style. Maybe some like his playstyle, some dislike, but i really doubt somebody here think he's a retard or whatever. | ||
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Pitons
Lithuania45 Posts
On February 11 2011 02:10 avilo wrote: lol @ jim trying to cover up how much of a-holes you guys were yesterday. You know you weren't comparing me to a comedian lofl. You could at least man up and just apologize instead of trying to bs your way out of that one. And yeah...I didn't win...I'd still have to play gomas in the final... And no, I was clearly going to win game 2. It makes absolutely no sense to do a re-game, because the re-game can take ANOTHER hour. How is that fair to the player that has worked for 1 hr to wittle down his opponent and finally kill him? All that does is make it so one player gets to re-roll their chance to win a game that they were losing. And as for people that don't know about lategame TvT, the only thing that matters that late game in TvT is your unit composition. Your resources can matter some, but it's who kills more gas units, and who has the better army base, and who can kill the other person's army finally. Which I was about to do lofl. Oh well! You'd be surprised how many long games I have in my replay folder that are exactly like this, where the game "seems close" yet there's no point where the opponent ever has a chance lol. Anyways, if this were to happen in another tournament, you can't just re-game over and over...unless it really were a draw situation in which both players agreed neither could do anything. Re-gaming just makes another game that would probably last the same amount of time total that the current game would last if it were allowed to be finished like it obviously should have been. *common sense* + basic math You just needed to accept to regame. I believe admins just wanted to end all this that same night without postponing. The third game had to be the decider - however long it could have been (maybe admins would have picked a small map hard to tell). You didn't agree for a regame where there were no other choices left in order to advance. So you were disqualified. Not because of your playstyle - just because you didn't accept admins decision, which was good imo. You were slightly ahead but the winner was not clear. You can think that you were a real winner of the 2nd match, but to decide a winner that game needed to last all night - and that wasn't appropriate. Regame could have went more smoothly. If it was again stalemate - then it's admins call. Imho if it was a stalemate again you go through because you won the first game. Simple as that. I don't think you would have lost self-respect agreeing for a regame. If I was you I would have accepted just to kick my opponents ass and to show everybody that I am truly better. And your playstyle is unique I must say. At first it was strange to watch such games, I even threw some "wtf", but thinking more I believe it was a cool game (I watched only second). Just freaking long. And if your opponent can't beat your defense then it's his problem. if you want to win you have to beat the other guy. There's no other way. Nobody forbids the attacking player to take more bases, more resources and so build more troops to beat the opponent. Beastyqt was also disqualified for bm. Also a fair decision imo. Although he says he was provoked by you earlier. So I don't think admins were biased. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On February 11 2011 02:47 Farone wrote: both players were given a time limit in which they should have attacked and they both didnt Avilo posted his IRC chat with one of the admins awhile ago. I don't recall seeing that anywhere in it. So a time limit was not given. But maybe I missed that and you can quote it. | ||
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DaCruise
Denmark2457 Posts
I believe the towers have since been nerfed cause they were too strong. Likewise terran defense in SC2 could be too strong and maybe need a nerf. Anyway I have bm´d more players than I can count cause of their overly defensive and turteling playstyle. In the end its up to Blizzard whether terran defensive abilities should get changed or nerfed. But if you play the game like Avilo and takes full advantage of the defense with the only purpose of dragging the game out for as long as possible dont expect anyone to be nice and not bm you. In other words if you play like a retard you will get treated as such and I totally understand Beastys BM. Playing like that is disrespectful to the streamers, the viewers, the organizers and the opponent, and to whoever suggested bc´s: Good luck going up against a million ravens, vikings and ghosts. The game was almost 100% even when it ended and no Avilo, you were NOT really ahead and you would not have been able to end the game anytime soon. A rematch was the right descision I think but not allowing anyone to be terran was hilarious to be honest. Instead they should have made the rematch on Blistering Sands as it has fewer bases and turteling wont get you very far. Finally if I was admin I would ban Avilo from future tournaments unless he makes an official apology. I would also make rules that clearly states that playing overly defensive will get you dissqualified from future tournaments. I dont think this is a one-time incident that we will never see repeated. In fact I am almost certain we will, when others find out how far you can get with turteling and defensive play | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
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mcduffs
United States116 Posts
I thought that would be a good way to do a regame. Like 15 min overtime or something... | ||
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