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On February 10 2011 12:48 UnholyRai wrote:
Do you think Avilo "had fun" tonight?
And yes, ok, i see, you were complimenting Avilo. Oh right, I get it now... yeah....
no.
Look there's really no point you trying to defend this to me, I urge people to simply watch the vod and make their own minds up.
the cool thing about the VODs on SC-Streams.com is that no matter how large they are yuo have random access to any point in the VOD with relatively fast speed.
as i said, i was reading what was in the chat...
and i did not host the youtube.com video..
i do not know what the guy in chat intended .. neither do you 
if you want to go out of your way to feel insulted enjoy yourself.
yep, it'd be great for people to watch the VOD itself.
http://www.sc-streams.com/vod/1277
and start at teh 115 minutes mark...
On February 10 2011 12:48 UnholyRai wrote:
Do you think Avilo "had fun" tonight?
many people had fun playing tonight.
and on Friday Night there will be 800+ people playing.
it is a free event.
no one is obligated to enter.
if 1 person did not have fun
then they do not have to join the event.
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craft cup has been doing great tours for months now on both EU and US server. for anyone to say craft cup is a joke or is stupid because of one incident is totally wrong.
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On February 10 2011 12:39 Arkansassy wrote:
For casters to make jokes like “I’m going to take a nap, wake me if this ever ends” is not only unprofessional, but just plain wrong.
And yes it may have been unprofessional to bring that up in a match i do agree with you there. And I should have been more on top of it and not playing long with it. The thing was that it was an hour long game and after an hour of watching 2 players build it did get a little "dry". This caused me to start cracking the jokes... But I will make sure to stay more ontop of things if we get another game like this. We do want to bring you guys a fun and professional cast, today was just a crazy day as it got into the pregrids so we may have lost our selfs there. But It will happen and can happen to anyone.
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On February 10 2011 10:40 Jakkerr wrote:Avilo’s playstyle was rlly cheap, there should be rules in SC Esports about playing too passive. Don’t get me wrong I don’t mean that you lose if you dont attack for a while, but playing a game where the only thing ur focused on is defending everything and have no intention of attacking ever you should get punished. He does it all the time on NA ladder too sadly enough. Beasty should have stayed cool and just let the admins decide tho. So I can completely understand this decision from the admins
You people need to make up your mind. If Terran one bases it's cheap, if Terran gets multiple expos and goes for lategame it's cheap, man...
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On February 10 2011 13:04 Mercury- wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2011 10:40 Jakkerr wrote:Avilo’s playstyle was rlly cheap, there should be rules in SC Esports about playing too passive. Don’t get me wrong I don’t mean that you lose if you dont attack for a while, but playing a game where the only thing ur focused on is defending everything and have no intention of attacking ever you should get punished. He does it all the time on NA ladder too sadly enough. Beasty should have stayed cool and just let the admins decide tho. So I can completely understand this decision from the admins You people need to make up your mind. If Terran one bases it's cheap, if Terran gets multiple expos and goes for lategame it's cheap, man...
Everything is completely imba to everyone. 
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Everything is completely imba to everyone.
Nathan Barnatt's comedy is IMBA!
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The trolls are out lololol...
btw craft cup is an amazing tourney wich actually has insta updated brackets i can follow (one of the few) :D
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On February 10 2011 13:01 LuckyFool wrote:
craft cup has been doing great tours for months now on both EU and US server. for anyone to say craft cup is a joke or is stupid because of one incident is totally wrong.
yah...b4 more people jump on the ever so lovely hate bandwagons one way or another...even tho I was royally fucked this time, by dumb highly questionable admin decisions + casters that BM/insult me afterwards for no reason, I don't think people should hate craftcup or not play in it. It's a nice tourney that's weekly and free, which is good for everyone.
Till I just read the last page or so I didn't realize the casters were saying all that shit and insulting me by comparison to the person in the video. Pretty low but whatever. I don't think it's professional or nice...not to mention showing massively blatant favoritism towards certain players in the tournaments. That's just me.
As for beastyqt, didn't know who he was b4, and after this i easily have zero respect for him.  Although, I am flattered that in our second game he decided to try and mimic my lategame style. I believe him to be my biggest fan.
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your antics on certain other gaming sites are "comedic"
so is Nathan Barnatt.
in late game 2 BeastyQT did start using Seeker Missiles in the exact way you used them in game 1.
hard to say if he has every done that before... i've never seen him do this.. and i've covered many of his matches.
as far as casts "favouring" BeastyQT against you..
please note that we specifically got the CraftCup winner Gomas in an interview to ask him abuot this situation in order to get a balanced perspective...
he stated you should've been given the win against BeastyQT
he stated you would have defeated him and won the CraftCup event.
this all occurred shortly after Gomas was declared the winner of CCLite #38 and its all on the recorded VOD...
http://www.sc-streams.com/vod/1277
this was done to provide a balanced perspective on the events.
Gomas is a better player than any of us scrubs at Imbalanced.tv and therefore his opinions carry more weight.
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Edit - Gonna let this die down and take to PM.
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On February 10 2011 12:33 UnholyRai wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2011 12:23 Puremiss wrote:On February 10 2011 12:05 Smurphy wrote:On February 10 2011 11:24 Puremiss wrote:On February 10 2011 10:50 Smurphy wrote:
Also, why would a player want to compete in a tournament where rules are made up mid-game and enforced without warning? And, why would you judge an entire tournament based on one overblown event? It is insane how fast people are willing to judge others based on something like this. I have been following the Craftcup (U.S. craftcup but same difference, same ppl running it) for an extremely long time now and I have to say they have one of the best bracket systems, best website interface for both participants and streamers and most consistent/smoothly run tournaments today. However does anyone make mention of those points? No. However when a tournament admin is forced to make a controversial decision like this, the entire integrity of the tournament goes down the drain for you? I can judge an entire series tournament based on this one event because the occurrence was so outrageous. The rules of Starcraft were changed mid-game. The rules of Starcraft were changed for no logical reason. The reasoning behind the changes was ludicrous. How was the reasoning ludicrous? It was 1:00am, and the tournament had to potential to go through the night into the morning. The admins have jobs, its a weekday, you can not possibly believe that running SC2 tournaments is going to bring the paycheck every month. They had to find some way of finishing it. Also the other finalist was in the same position and would've had to wait whoever knows how long to play for $20. You are barely considering the main factor. I partially agree with your points made about the decision itself and its repercussions. And ive said somewhere in this thread that I believe a reschedule of the finals would have done them much more good. However these kinds of decisions are bound to happen from time to time. Some are wrong, some are right, some are extremely controversial, but it does not, at least to me, jeopardize the entire tournament from week to week. On a much larger scale I am reminded of the OSL finals i believe between Flash and Jaedong (forgot what year T.T fail SCBW fan) where in one of the games, a blackout occured, the game could've gone either way, and it couldve been argued that Jaedong did not have the advantage. However the game was given to Jaedong, which obviously caused immense controversy. But let me ask you now, does that jeopardize the integrity of all past and future OSLs? Definitely not for me despite the fact that I did not agree with the call. This has been discussed already, how does re gaming make sense when you're pushed for time? If anything that will massively increase the time of the tournament, unless of course they forced Avilo to play off-race, which they're actually claiming was a joke now even though the admin said it to Avilo in the transcript of the contact between them. In my opinion the admins of this cup need to seriously up their game. No more fucking ridiculous decision making and fooling around (telling Avilo he has to off race) during a match. No more allowing a caster to cast drunk. You can continue to do all that by all means if you want to but first you should ask TL to unfeature you.
Okay gonna chime in here, you all seem to be missing an important point. Yeah they could have called game two a draw and given the win to Avilo because of game one. Problem with this is that it creates a situation where any Terran could superturtle and aim for a draw whenever they are up 1-0 in a series, that would have been an absolutely horrible decision in my opinion that could seriously hurt a tournament on the larger scale.
It is a really hard situation for the admins, on one hand they can not let the game play out, they do have time limits that must be followed, this is true for almost all live tournaments so nothing to cry about there. Simply the nature of most live tournaments.
They can not call a draw and give the series to Avilo because that creates a situation where Terran players can superturtle and aim for draws whenever they are up 1-0. That would hurt both the fairness and entertainement value of the tournament.
They can not give the win to one player because it is to close to call, one had army advantage and other eco advatange.
Regame sounds like the best choice to me...? If you want to avoid a long macro game just change the map to Steps of War or something.
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On February 10 2011 16:36 DND_Enkil wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2011 12:33 UnholyRai wrote:On February 10 2011 12:23 Puremiss wrote:On February 10 2011 12:05 Smurphy wrote:On February 10 2011 11:24 Puremiss wrote:On February 10 2011 10:50 Smurphy wrote:
Also, why would a player want to compete in a tournament where rules are made up mid-game and enforced without warning? And, why would you judge an entire tournament based on one overblown event? It is insane how fast people are willing to judge others based on something like this. I have been following the Craftcup (U.S. craftcup but same difference, same ppl running it) for an extremely long time now and I have to say they have one of the best bracket systems, best website interface for both participants and streamers and most consistent/smoothly run tournaments today. However does anyone make mention of those points? No. However when a tournament admin is forced to make a controversial decision like this, the entire integrity of the tournament goes down the drain for you? I can judge an entire series tournament based on this one event because the occurrence was so outrageous. The rules of Starcraft were changed mid-game. The rules of Starcraft were changed for no logical reason. The reasoning behind the changes was ludicrous. How was the reasoning ludicrous? It was 1:00am, and the tournament had to potential to go through the night into the morning. The admins have jobs, its a weekday, you can not possibly believe that running SC2 tournaments is going to bring the paycheck every month. They had to find some way of finishing it. Also the other finalist was in the same position and would've had to wait whoever knows how long to play for $20. You are barely considering the main factor. I partially agree with your points made about the decision itself and its repercussions. And ive said somewhere in this thread that I believe a reschedule of the finals would have done them much more good. However these kinds of decisions are bound to happen from time to time. Some are wrong, some are right, some are extremely controversial, but it does not, at least to me, jeopardize the entire tournament from week to week. On a much larger scale I am reminded of the OSL finals i believe between Flash and Jaedong (forgot what year T.T fail SCBW fan) where in one of the games, a blackout occured, the game could've gone either way, and it couldve been argued that Jaedong did not have the advantage. However the game was given to Jaedong, which obviously caused immense controversy. But let me ask you now, does that jeopardize the integrity of all past and future OSLs? Definitely not for me despite the fact that I did not agree with the call. This has been discussed already, how does re gaming make sense when you're pushed for time? If anything that will massively increase the time of the tournament, unless of course they forced Avilo to play off-race, which they're actually claiming was a joke now even though the admin said it to Avilo in the transcript of the contact between them. In my opinion the admins of this cup need to seriously up their game. No more fucking ridiculous decision making and fooling around (telling Avilo he has to off race) during a match. No more allowing a caster to cast drunk. You can continue to do all that by all means if you want to but first you should ask TL to unfeature you. Okay gonna chime in here, you all seem to be missing an important point. Yeah they could have called game two a draw and given the win to Avilo because of game one. Problem with this is that it creates a situation where any Terran could superturtle and aim for a draw whenever they are up 1-0 in a series, that would have been an absolutely horrible decision in my opinion that could seriously hurt a tournament on the larger scale. It is a really hard situation for the admins, on one hand they can not let the game play out, they do have time limits that must be followed, this is true for almost all live tournaments so nothing to cry about there. Simply the nature of most live tournaments. They can not call a draw and give the series to Avilo because that creates a situation where Terran players can superturtle and aim for draws whenever they are up 1-0. That would hurt both the fairness and entertainement value of the tournament. They can not give the win to one player because it is to close to call, one had army advantage and other eco advatange. Regame sounds like the best choice to me...? If you want to avoid a long macro game just change the map to Steps of War or something.
A regame accomplishes nothing. A regame does not help with time constraints nor does it help prevent Terrans from turtling in the manner you suggest.
A regame doesn't help with time constraints for extremely obvious reasons that have already been explained several times.
A regame doesn't help with turtling because it is a viable strategy that can lead to victories. There's no reason avilo wouldn't simply use the same strategy again. Obviously avilo is very successful with the turtling strategy.
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This whole discussion really reminds of one episode of "Weapons of Choice". There, Chill said, that many many people are just talking in abslutes "Bla happened - ergo its THIS 100% no other choice left"
and this is exactly what i read.
"bad decisions by admins - CRAFTCUP IS DEAD!" and more tlike that. This is just talking in abolsutes and this is ridiculous.
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I don't know the right answer, but re-game was "absolutely" not it.
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On February 10 2011 18:31 Smurphy wrote:
I don't know the right answer, but re-game was "absolutely" not it.
It is easy to point at something and scream wrong when you have no better solution yourself...
Personally, i cant think of a better solution than regame, possbly coinflip like Dreamhack did but thinking about the shitstorm that created i am not sure.
If you want to prevent it from going into extremely long macro-game force a smaller map in my opinion. But that is just my opinion, admins wanted to force both players to off-race. Not sure i agree with it but that is one way...
The big problem i see here is lack of clear rules regarding the issue.
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Terrible, terrible crisis management.
The decisions of the admins was unprofessional and there would have been better ways to solve this situation. However, everyone can have a bad day, and it really was late. Still that's no excuse of what happened.
Well, shit happened and cannot be undone. But what bothers me the most is the handling of the aftermath: Instead of admitting the failures which have been made the admins as well as the casters are constantly posting new excuses and officially declare that their decision is not out there for discussion. This is not only unprofessional, it's also immature and neither accepted in esports nor in real life.
In such a case it is normally expected from the people that the persons in charge apologizes for their mistakes and try to work out a way so something like this never happens again. However, the admins seem to refuse any of this, essentially meaning for the players joining this tournament that they cannot expect fair judgement should they ever get as unlucky as to be in a similar situation.
As for the people claiming that you cannot judge the whole tournament by one bad decision is like saying you cannot judge a realationship just because one partner cheated on the other. It's not about how often it happens, it's that you cannot trust the admins anymore. This is even made worse by not admitting the failures and trying to cover things up.
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I was shocked by the decision that was made and I got totally upset. There were so much better ways to handle the situation but unfortunately, a bad decision was made. Avilo deserved to win this cup. Although I didn't have anything to do with this decision, as a CraftCup staff, I personally apologize and I'm terribly sorry for what happened. Hopefully by adding some rules for situations like this, and by learning from our mistakes, we can improve the tournament experience for everyone.
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On February 10 2011 20:06 Fireborn wrote:
In such a case it is normally expected from the people that the persons in charge apologizes for their mistakes and try to work out a way so something like this never happens again. However, the admins seem to refuse any of this, essentially meaning for the players joining this tournament that they cannot expect fair judgement should they ever get as unlucky as to be in a similar situation.
Dude, its your personal opinion that their decision was a mistake. I myself think calling a regame was the right one, it should have just been done a little earlier. Obviously the admins thought it was the right decision too. So now you want them to apologize because you think it was wrong? Come on.
On February 10 2011 21:52 Keyamoon wrote:
I was shocked by the decision that was made and I got totally upset. There were so much better ways to handle the situation but unfortunately, a bad decision was made. Avilo deserved to win this cup.
Eh, how on earth did Avilo deserve to win the cup? Even if the admins decision was totally wrong (which it wasnt in my opinion), how does that mean that somebody who is in the semis in a close game suddenly deserves to win the whole cup?
This is getting getting more and more ridiculous.
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Eh, how on earth did Avilo deserve to win the cup? Even if the admins decision was totally wrong (which it wasnt in my opinion), how does that mean that somebody who is in the semis in a close game suddenly deserves to win the whole cup?
This is getting getting more and more ridiculous.
Hey calm down sir, that's just what I thought by watching the stream. that's just me!
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On February 10 2011 22:08 Redox wrote:. I myself think calling a regame was the right one, it should have just been done a little earlier..
Well if you listen to what Maista says around minute 151 in our vod from yesterday he clearly says that Beasty had to pause because he was getting PM's on irc from Brotkohl - a CC admin - about the regame, the reason he got messaged on IRC about it was because both him and avilo was set to "busy" ingame so they couldnt see the admins messages
Edit for VoD link - http://www.sc-streams.com/vod/1277
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EPT
