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![[image loading]](http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/3932/newzealandtournamentmai.png)
Replay Package
http://rapidshare.com/files/415755504/NZ1v1replays.rar
Contains replays from - Winners finals, Losers finals, Winners semis and the grand final
Tournament Finished.
Congratulations to + Show Spoiler +for beating + Show Spoiler + in the final, + Show Spoiler +
Replay Package coming soon.
Also check Sephyres youtube to see him casting some games
POST YOUR RESULTS TO STROGGOS ON IRC - If your not on IRC contact me ingame RefleX 746
Check player list to make sure I havnt missed you.
- Please IRC Strogoos the results of your games.
LIVESTREAM http://www.ustream.tv/channel/unstable-tv1
Please sign into the IRC to check in any time before 7pm
IRC ; http://webchat.freenode.net/# Channel Name: NZTourney
Brackets -http://binarybeast.com/xSC21008281
Important Update
Hey guys sorry for messing you around.
I am aware that Zhasz is hosting a tournament with a $50 USD prize this Saturday at 5:30pm (NZ TIME) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=147189.
I have spoken to him and we have decided to have these tournaments overlap as I am sure a lot of you would like to compete in his also.
To make this a little easier, this tournament will commence on Saturday at 7pm.
During this time Zhasz and myself will be very lenient on people playing in both.
Sorry for messing everyone around
I hope this suits the majority of people
Please check the *Players* spoiler to make sure you are entered, If I have missed you contact me online - RefleX 746.
Introduction
+ Show Spoiler +With the introduction of the SEA Nation Wars (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=145211) we thought it was time to have a New Zealand tournament to allow players the opportunity to prove themselves that they are worthy of being placed In the New Zealand team. Please note that this tournament wont 100% verify you in competing In the upcoming nation war game but it will definitely make you a VERY valid option for future games.
Rules and Format
+ Show Spoiler +The tournament will commence on Saturday the 28th of August, at 7:00PM.
Basic fair play rules apply and cheating will not be tolerated.
Disputes must be reported to Stroggos or myself and our decision is final.
- No division/league restrictions: This is an open tournament and all New Zealand players are welcome.
- Double Elimination format, BO1 until 3rd place playoff (BO3) and finals (2x BO3).
Although a long term tournament would be a better representation of the players (Every round being BO3) we want this tournament complete before the first round of the nation wars.
Due to inexperience in running tournaments I will be updating the winners brackets whereas Stroggos will be updating the losers bracket.
Sign up
+ Show Spoiler +To sign up simply comment below in this format.
Name:
Code:
Race:
Players
+ Show Spoiler +
Optical 877 Terran
Exile 755 Terran
Haggis 797 Protoss
RefleX 746 Protoss
James 187 Zerg
Ceron 829 Protoss
DejaVoo 534 Zerg
Nuri 600 Terran
Guarded 982 Terran
MrWooticus 111 Terran
Terrorblade 967 Protoss
Disarray 339 Protoss
Sprog 324 Protoss
Frankie 970 Protoss
Stroggos 825 Protoss
Speedbump 930 Terran
Excalyber 196 Zerg
Wernsen 754 Terran
Fleet 985 Terran
Ish 120 Protoss
Thunder 481 Terran
hype 211 Terran
Renny 696 Terran
Luoson 830 Protoss
Tyrall 697 Protoss
Soan 303 Zerg
Drbacon 793 Zerg
MrGreen 303 Protoss
justin 578 Zerg
Another 793 Protoss
Jamez 707 Zergie
Wehtam 439 Protoss
PlainSight 118 Terran
LinKenZ 541 Zerg
DarkYojimbo 158 Protoss
Scx 530 terran
Fresco 713 Protoss
DeeSam 337 Zerg
Finest 402 Terran
Dante 207 Protoss
Flaunt 719 Terran
Crimson 638 Protoss
Alwaysyou ###
Player Ranks!
+ Show Spoiler +Thanks to Optical for this :D Note: This is just a novelty and doesnt reflect players skillThis will be updated every night The way its sorted is League first, then points (all platinum above gold, regardless of points) Then it just uses points to compare all the players in the same league Dont underestimate your oppenent though as im sure alot of these players lurk in custom games  1. Stroggos.825 2. Flaunt.791 3. Finest.402 4. RefleX.746 5. justin.578 6. Luoson.830 7. Guarded.982 8. Ceron.829 9. Another.793 10. Tyrall.697 11. Nuri.600 12. James.187 13. Thunder.481 14. Terrorblade.967 15. Wernsen.754 16. DejaVoo.534 17. PlainSight.118 18. Jamez.707 19. Haggis.979 20. Crimson.638 21. Fleet.985 22. MrWooticus.111 23. Exile.755 24. Renny.696 25. Wehtam.439 26. Ish.120 27. Scx.530 28. DarkYojimbo.158 29. Fresco.713 30. hype.211 31. Frankie.970 32. Sprog.324 33. Excalyber.196 34. Optical.877 35. Drbacon.793 36. Speedbump.930 37. Dante.207 38. LinKenZ.541 39. MrGreen.303 40. Soan.303 41. DeeSam.337 42. Disarray.339
Maps
+ Show Spoiler +Maps havnt been decided yet but starting BO1 rounds will be played on four player maps such as Winners Rounds 1 - Lost TempleRound 2 - MetalopolisRound 3 - Xal'Naga Caverns Round 4 - Delta QuadrantRound 5 - Steppes of War Round 6 - Blistering Sands (round 1 loser picks) Losers Round 1 - Metalopolis Round 2- Xal'Naga Caverns Round 3 - Lost Temple Round 4 - Steppes of War Round 5 - Delta Quadrant Round 6 - Blistering Sands Round 7 - Meta Round 8 - Xal Round 9 - Round 10 -
Replays and Casters
+ Show Spoiler +Big ups to Alethios, Spy and Unstable for casting :
Contact
+ Show Spoiler +
![[image loading]](http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/5182/newzealanddtournamentbo.png)
Brought to you by Clan [NZ] http://www.starcraft.co.nz/index.php?topic=1084.0
Special thanks to Optical.877 for helping with the organisation of this tournament.
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Name:Optical
Code:877
Race:Terran
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Name: Haggis
Code: 797
Race Protoss
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On August 23 2010 17:45 b_unnies wrote:
5 pm NZ time ?
Yep
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Name: DejaVoo
Code: 534
Race: Random
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Name: Nuri
Code: 600
Race: Terran
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James to win, UNLEASH THE FIGHTO (Ceron too)
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On August 23 2010 18:20 dthree wrote:
James to win, UNLEASH THE FIGHTO
The NZ team is being fixed - ull see that I have been cut for now. We are in the process of putting the strongest team possible together at the moment.
ermm that was in response to your message before you editted it. lol.
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On August 23 2010 18:29 deL wrote:
Hahahahahaha awesome!
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Feel free to use one of these LOL.
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On August 23 2010 18:24 RefleX746 wrote:The NZ team is being fixed - ull see that I have been cut for now. We are in the process of putting the strongest team possible together at the moment. ermm that was in response to your message before you editted it. lol.
Tbh everyone should be cut imo. NZ is too close in skill to pick players without some sort of requirements. I think it should be something like; top x ranked ladder players and the rest decided from a tournament or series of tournaments. Atm the people on the team (I am assuming not everyone was cut) are there completely arbitrarily. Currently it is the managers prerogative who is on the team or not, which is fine if thats how you guys want to do things but I think a requirement only based system is most fair. I dont want to sound like im ripping on the people organising the team or this tournament, I appreciate the work you guys are doing.
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On August 23 2010 17:47 RefleX746 wrote:Yep
thats too bad, wont be able to join it 
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On August 23 2010 18:42 WAAA wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2010 18:24 RefleX746 wrote:On August 23 2010 18:20 dthree wrote:
James to win, UNLEASH THE FIGHTO The NZ team is being fixed - ull see that I have been cut for now. We are in the process of putting the strongest team possible together at the moment. ermm that was in response to your message before you editted it. lol. Tbh everyone should be cut imo. NZ is too close in skill to pick players without some sort of requirements. I think it should be something like; top x ranked ladder players and the rest decided from a tournament or series of tournaments. Atm the people on the team (I am assuming not everyone was cut) are there completely arbitrarily. Currently it is the managers prerogative who is on the team or not, which is fine if thats how you guys want to do things but I think a requirement only based system is most fair. I dont want to sound like im ripping on the people organising the team or this tournament, I appreciate the work you guys are doing.
Trouble is the NW starts very soon! Some like Kowi are guaranteed entries so you can at least lock them in.
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On August 23 2010 18:43 deL wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2010 18:42 WAAA wrote:On August 23 2010 18:24 RefleX746 wrote:On August 23 2010 18:20 dthree wrote:
James to win, UNLEASH THE FIGHTO The NZ team is being fixed - ull see that I have been cut for now. We are in the process of putting the strongest team possible together at the moment. ermm that was in response to your message before you editted it. lol. Tbh everyone should be cut imo. NZ is too close in skill to pick players without some sort of requirements. I think it should be something like; top x ranked ladder players and the rest decided from a tournament or series of tournaments. Atm the people on the team (I am assuming not everyone was cut) are there completely arbitrarily. Currently it is the managers prerogative who is on the team or not, which is fine if thats how you guys want to do things but I think a requirement only based system is most fair. I dont want to sound like im ripping on the people organising the team or this tournament, I appreciate the work you guys are doing. Trouble is the NW starts very soon! Some like Kowi are guaranteed entries so you can at least lock them in.
Well tbh I think he would be the only guaranteed, anyway Im pretty sure he is the top ranked NZer so under my proposed system he would be in.
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Netherlands6142 Posts
and on a more helpful note, check this out.
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On August 23 2010 18:49 Pholon wrote:and on a more helpful note, check this out.
Hahahah 'Fuckers gonna bleat'
Oh sweet ty ill contact the few SEA ones on there
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Name: Spy
Code: 758
Race: Terran
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Name: Tangerine
Code: 565
Race: Zerg
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Name: Guarded
Code: 982
Race: Terran
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Name: MrWoOticus
Code: 111
Race: Terran
Yeah... i know, I live in South Korea, but I'm a kiwi honest
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Name: Generic
Code: 105
Race: Protoss
Actually the time might be cutting it quite close with family reunion. Not 100% sure I can make it.
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lame at a lan that weekend >.<
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Name: TerrorBlade
Code: 967
Race: Protoss
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Name: Disarray
Code: 339
Race: Protoss
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Name: Sprog
Code: 324
Race: Protoss
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Name: frankie
Code: 970
Race: Protoss
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Name: Speedbump
Identifier: 930
Race: Terran
Hopefully I don't get too stomped on Saturday. XD
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Name: Excalyber
Code: 196
Race: Zerg
Looking forward to it 
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I'm going to be out of the country I hope there's another tourny later along! I'm so keen.
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Name: Wernsen
Code: 754
Race: Terran
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On August 24 2010 07:28 Trusty wrote:I'm going to be out of the country I hope there's another tourny later along! I'm so keen.
there will be
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On August 24 2010 07:38 Wernsen wrote:
Name: Wernsen
Code: 754
Race: Terran
Did you play WoW as an NE Hunter on Barthilas?
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Name: Fleet
Code: 985
Race: Terran
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On August 24 2010 07:58 Trusty wrote:Did you play WoW as an NE Hunter on Barthilas?
Yea i did lol
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Name: Ish
Code: 120
Race: Protoss
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Name: TTD
Code: 765
Race: Protoss
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On August 23 2010 18:42 WAAA wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2010 18:24 RefleX746 wrote:On August 23 2010 18:20 dthree wrote:
James to win, UNLEASH THE FIGHTO The NZ team is being fixed - ull see that I have been cut for now. We are in the process of putting the strongest team possible together at the moment. ermm that was in response to your message before you editted it. lol. Tbh everyone should be cut imo. NZ is too close in skill to pick players without some sort of requirements. I think it should be something like; top x ranked ladder players and the rest decided from a tournament or series of tournaments. Atm the people on the team (I am assuming not everyone was cut) are there completely arbitrarily. Currently it is the managers prerogative who is on the team or not, which is fine if thats how you guys want to do things but I think a requirement only based system is most fair. I dont want to sound like im ripping on the people organising the team or this tournament, I appreciate the work you guys are doing.
All the players currently in the NZ team are on the Blizzard top200 list. The problem is that it isn't known just who all the NZ players are, and there is no way to find out, short of tournaments like this. And even then, not everyone will enter these tournaments.
Sign me up
Thunder
481
Terran
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Name: Renny
Code: 696
Race: Terran
CHCH REPS
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Sign me up
Thunder
481
Terran
make me.
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On August 24 2010 11:01 CRenny wrote:
Name: Renny
Code: 696
Race: Terran
CHCH REPS
haha so many of us are from chch
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Sorry I have to pull out as I'm going on a trip around the South Island during that weekend.
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My apolygies, i posted as terran. Im actually zerg. Not sure what came over me :S
Excalyber.196
Zerg
Thanks in advance for the update
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Woahh about time the zerg swarmed in! (see what i did there)
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Name: MrGreen
Code: 303
Race: Protoss
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Nevermind cannot do, going to a party
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On August 24 2010 10:50 ThunderGod wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2010 18:42 WAAA wrote:On August 23 2010 18:24 RefleX746 wrote:On August 23 2010 18:20 dthree wrote:
James to win, UNLEASH THE FIGHTO The NZ team is being fixed - ull see that I have been cut for now. We are in the process of putting the strongest team possible together at the moment. ermm that was in response to your message before you editted it. lol. Tbh everyone should be cut imo. NZ is too close in skill to pick players without some sort of requirements. I think it should be something like; top x ranked ladder players and the rest decided from a tournament or series of tournaments. Atm the people on the team (I am assuming not everyone was cut) are there completely arbitrarily. Currently it is the managers prerogative who is on the team or not, which is fine if thats how you guys want to do things but I think a requirement only based system is most fair. I dont want to sound like im ripping on the people organising the team or this tournament, I appreciate the work you guys are doing. All the players currently in the NZ team are on the Blizzard top200 list. The problem is that it isn't known just who all the NZ players are, and there is no way to find out, short of tournaments like this. And even then, not everyone will enter these tournaments. Sign me up Thunder 481 Terran
If people dont make themselves known or play in the tournaments they have no desire to be in the team (or dont know) so should be disregarded. There are also people in the blizzard top 200 that would of liked to be part of the team, and expressed their interest but were told the team is full. Now stroggos told me the winner of the tournament would have to impress him alot to get in the team as it is full. I think picking the team arbitrarily aslong as they meet x requirement is not an ideal system. Instead I think it should be the best players decided through highest ladder rank and tournament performance. I realise that you probably arent able or willing to change the lineup now but I think this should be kept in mind for when the time comes to review the team.
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If you look at the current lineup I think that the top ladder players are in the team (Using Blizz's ranking thingy) - i could be wrong
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
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-55 rofl. went down 200 rating while playing at someone elses house.
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On August 24 2010 17:26 RefleX746 wrote:
If you look at the current lineup I think that the top ladder players are in the team (Using Blizz's ranking thingy) - i could be wrong
Could you link to updated roster? Looking in the nationwars thread it is same as ever.
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Ah ok, seems like a good lineup.
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:o, nirvana really should update it.
Here it is
Kowi.807
stroggos.825
Luoson.830
Plexa.504
TerrorBlade.967
Ceron.829
flaunt.791
expe.708
MassMarine.652
AlwaysYou.417
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Would prefer Sunday myself, simply due to other tournaments being on at the same time.
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Name:justin
Code:578
Race:zerg
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Name: Another
Code: 793
Race: Protoss
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Name:Jamez
Code: 707
Race: Zergie
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hey, quick question... if you're sorting the brackets to put players of similar skill together (based on that player rank list), won't that automatically eliminate half of the good players? if you were looking for one top player it wouldn't matter, but for building a team wouldn't you want the brackets to avoid putting the highly skilled players in positions to knock each other out?
maybe im reading it wrong... lol
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yup yup good players will be seeded and wont face each other till later on - if they make it :D That player ranks thing is just a novelty
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Name: LinKenZ
Code: 541
Race: Zerg
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I'll pull out of the tournament to concentrate on casting since all games start at the same time. Cheers Reflex!
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On August 25 2010 20:05 Disarray0525 wrote:
hey, quick question... if you're sorting the brackets to put players of similar skill together (based on that player rank list), won't that automatically eliminate half of the good players? if you were looking for one top player it wouldn't matter, but for building a team wouldn't you want the brackets to avoid putting the highly skilled players in positions to knock each other out?
maybe im reading it wrong... lol
The way it works is the guy on the top of the list plays the person on the bottom of the list, and so on. ie the top seed plays the lowest seed. Second highest players the second lowest. That way top players don't face each other until the finals.
The list is generated automatically based on your ladder rating and league. Diamond > plat > gold > silver > bronze.
Here is a link to an example bracket: http://challonge.com/images/brackets/TestRunNZ.png
- As you can see in this example you are the 31st seed - who will play the 34th, and if you win will move on to play the second seed etc. I am sure you can work it out.
Also, for reflex (going out tonight so won't be able to send it again): http://pastebin.com/ZFRFsidH
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Name: PlainSight
Code: 118
Race: Terran
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Name: DarkYojimbo
Code: 158
Race: Protoss
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On August 26 2010 11:31 opticalza wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2010 20:05 Disarray0525 wrote:
hey, quick question... if you're sorting the brackets to put players of similar skill together (based on that player rank list), won't that automatically eliminate half of the good players? if you were looking for one top player it wouldn't matter, but for building a team wouldn't you want the brackets to avoid putting the highly skilled players in positions to knock each other out?
maybe im reading it wrong... lol The way it works is the guy on the top of the list plays the person on the bottom of the list, and so on. ie the top seed plays the lowest seed. Second highest players the second lowest. That way top players don't face each other until the finals. The list is generated automatically based on your ladder rating and league. Diamond > plat > gold > silver > bronze. Here is a link to an example bracket: http://challonge.com/images/brackets/TestRunNZ.png- As you can see in this example you are the 31st seed - who will play the 34th, and if you win will move on to play the second seed etc. I am sure you can work it out. Also, for reflex (going out tonight so won't be able to send it again): http://pastebin.com/ZFRFsidH
I hope you know that rating points has very little to do with skill. A player in Corruptor Tango with 400 rating points is of similar skill to a player in say Carrier Kilo (or any of the newer Diamond divisions) with 1200 points.
The fact the tournament is double elimination means you don't need to seed players. Or alternatively you could seed players in Blizzard's official top200 list and seed noone else. Or I guess you could do what you are doing at the moment, it's just not very scientific is all 
Edit: Also with that system one could hypothetically control their rating so as to get an easier bracket.
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name: Scx
code: 530
race: terran
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Are you sure about the difference in skills in brackets? I thought the only difference is the overall placement. A 1200 skilled player would have the same skill level across all divisons wouldnt they? as you dont only play people in your own divison. A 1000 player may be rank 1 in one divison but another 1000 player may be rank 10 in another, but if those 2 players played each other wouldnt they have similar skill?
On August 26 2010 13:19 ThunderGod wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2010 11:31 opticalza wrote:On August 25 2010 20:05 Disarray0525 wrote:
hey, quick question... if you're sorting the brackets to put players of similar skill together (based on that player rank list), won't that automatically eliminate half of the good players? if you were looking for one top player it wouldn't matter, but for building a team wouldn't you want the brackets to avoid putting the highly skilled players in positions to knock each other out?
maybe im reading it wrong... lol The way it works is the guy on the top of the list plays the person on the bottom of the list, and so on. ie the top seed plays the lowest seed. Second highest players the second lowest. That way top players don't face each other until the finals. The list is generated automatically based on your ladder rating and league. Diamond > plat > gold > silver > bronze. Here is a link to an example bracket: http://challonge.com/images/brackets/TestRunNZ.png- As you can see in this example you are the 31st seed - who will play the 34th, and if you win will move on to play the second seed etc. I am sure you can work it out. Also, for reflex (going out tonight so won't be able to send it again): http://pastebin.com/ZFRFsidH I hope you know that rating points has very little to do with skill. A player in Corruptor Tango with 400 rating points is of similar skill to a player in say Carrier Kilo (or any of the newer Diamond divisions) with 1200 points. The fact the tournament is double elimination means you don't need to seed players. Or alternatively you could seed players in Blizzard's official top200 list and seed noone else. Or I guess you could do what you are doing at the moment, it's just not very scientific is all Edit: Also with that system one could hypothetically control their rating so as to get an easier bracket.
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To RefleX and Opticalza
Oh i understand now
good work then guys, it seems everything's as it should be
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I might like to join, however, how long will it go for? how many games will i need to do approximately? Please PM me.
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On August 26 2010 13:19 ThunderGod wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2010 11:31 opticalza wrote:On August 25 2010 20:05 Disarray0525 wrote:
hey, quick question... if you're sorting the brackets to put players of similar skill together (based on that player rank list), won't that automatically eliminate half of the good players? if you were looking for one top player it wouldn't matter, but for building a team wouldn't you want the brackets to avoid putting the highly skilled players in positions to knock each other out?
maybe im reading it wrong... lol The way it works is the guy on the top of the list plays the person on the bottom of the list, and so on. ie the top seed plays the lowest seed. Second highest players the second lowest. That way top players don't face each other until the finals. The list is generated automatically based on your ladder rating and league. Diamond > plat > gold > silver > bronze. Here is a link to an example bracket: http://challonge.com/images/brackets/TestRunNZ.png- As you can see in this example you are the 31st seed - who will play the 34th, and if you win will move on to play the second seed etc. I am sure you can work it out. Also, for reflex (going out tonight so won't be able to send it again): http://pastebin.com/ZFRFsidH I hope you know that rating points has very little to do with skill. A player in Corruptor Tango with 400 rating points is of similar skill to a player in say Carrier Kilo (or any of the newer Diamond divisions) with 1200 points. The fact the tournament is double elimination means you don't need to seed players. Or alternatively you could seed players in Blizzard's official top200 list and seed noone else. Or I guess you could do what you are doing at the moment, it's just not very scientific is all Edit: Also with that system one could hypothetically control their rating so as to get an easier bracket.
I dont think thats correct at all. Atleast the division has nothing to do with skill. The reason so many good players are in the same division is because they all spammed games at the start so got into the first diamond division.
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On August 26 2010 13:19 ThunderGod wrote:I hope you know that rating points has very little to do with skill. A player in Corruptor Tango with 400 rating points is of similar skill to a player in say Carrier Kilo (or any of the newer Diamond divisions) with 1200 points. The fact the tournament is double elimination means you don't need to seed players. Or alternatively you could seed players in Blizzard's official top200 list and seed noone else. Or I guess you could do what you are doing at the moment, it's just not very scientific is all Edit: Also with that system one could hypothetically control their rating so as to get an easier bracket.
Hi. Yes im aware points do not equal skill. However there is undoubtedly a correlation between the two, and that's the reason i chose to use it. I'm not sure what you mean by it's not very scientific, this was meant to help even out the spread of players, based on their ladder data. There really isn't anything else empirical that will cover all participants that has some meaning. The top 200 list is undoubtedly more accurate, as it is most likely not tainted by the bonus pool inflation, but that is purely speculation, and more importantly, it doesn't have data for the majority of players in the tournament. As for points being different on a division basis - i don't think that is true based off what i have read here on TL about the ladder system, as well as what the sc2ranks developer has stated about it. It also seems logical that the way blizzard has done divisions is that are simply wrappers for the league, to try give people a sense of accomplishment when they move up a rank. What is true is that moving up "ranks" in a division like Corruptor Tango is harder then in Carrier Kilo .
Finally though, i did not intend to intrude on anything. It is your clan, your tournament, and ultimately your decision. I was trying to help Reflex out to make things go smoother and help the NZ scene a little in my own way (programming). My apologies if I've come across as trying to run the show or say that this is how things will be done, or any thing to that extent.
Cheers :D
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Dont feel like your intruding!
On August 26 2010 15:17 opticalza wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2010 13:19 ThunderGod wrote:I hope you know that rating points has very little to do with skill. A player in Corruptor Tango with 400 rating points is of similar skill to a player in say Carrier Kilo (or any of the newer Diamond divisions) with 1200 points. The fact the tournament is double elimination means you don't need to seed players. Or alternatively you could seed players in Blizzard's official top200 list and seed noone else. Or I guess you could do what you are doing at the moment, it's just not very scientific is all Edit: Also with that system one could hypothetically control their rating so as to get an easier bracket. Hi. Yes im aware points do not equal skill. However there is undoubtedly a correlation between the two, and that's the reason i chose to use it. I'm not sure what you mean by it's not very scientific, this was meant to help even out the spread of players, based on their ladder data. There really isn't anything else empirical that will cover all participants that has some meaning. The top 200 list is undoubtedly more accurate, as it is most likely not tainted by the bonus pool inflation, but that is purely speculation, and more importantly, it doesn't have data for the majority of players in the tournament. As for points being different on a division basis - i don't think that is true based off what i have read here on TL about the ladder system, as well as what the sc2ranks developer has stated about it. It also seems logical that the way blizzard has done divisions is that are simply wrappers for the league, to try give people a sense of accomplishment when they move up a rank. What is true is that moving up "ranks" in a division like Corruptor Tango is harder then in Carrier Kilo . Finally though, i did not intend to intrude on anything. It is your clan, your tournament, and ultimately your decision. I was trying to help Reflex out to make things go smoother and help the NZ scene a little in my own way (programming). My apologies if I've come across as trying to run the show or say that this is how things will be done, or any thing to that extent. Cheers :D
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On August 26 2010 14:31 WAAA wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2010 13:19 ThunderGod wrote:On August 26 2010 11:31 opticalza wrote:On August 25 2010 20:05 Disarray0525 wrote:
hey, quick question... if you're sorting the brackets to put players of similar skill together (based on that player rank list), won't that automatically eliminate half of the good players? if you were looking for one top player it wouldn't matter, but for building a team wouldn't you want the brackets to avoid putting the highly skilled players in positions to knock each other out?
maybe im reading it wrong... lol The way it works is the guy on the top of the list plays the person on the bottom of the list, and so on. ie the top seed plays the lowest seed. Second highest players the second lowest. That way top players don't face each other until the finals. The list is generated automatically based on your ladder rating and league. Diamond > plat > gold > silver > bronze. Here is a link to an example bracket: http://challonge.com/images/brackets/TestRunNZ.png- As you can see in this example you are the 31st seed - who will play the 34th, and if you win will move on to play the second seed etc. I am sure you can work it out. Also, for reflex (going out tonight so won't be able to send it again): http://pastebin.com/ZFRFsidH I hope you know that rating points has very little to do with skill. A player in Corruptor Tango with 400 rating points is of similar skill to a player in say Carrier Kilo (or any of the newer Diamond divisions) with 1200 points. The fact the tournament is double elimination means you don't need to seed players. Or alternatively you could seed players in Blizzard's official top200 list and seed noone else. Or I guess you could do what you are doing at the moment, it's just not very scientific is all Edit: Also with that system one could hypothetically control their rating so as to get an easier bracket. I dont think thats correct at all. Atleast the division has nothing to do with skill. The reason so many good players are in the same division is because they all spammed games at the start so got into the first diamond division.
the top 30 in corrupter tango are all "slightly favored" or "favored" over me and give a lot of points when i beat them, i know this because i've played almost all of them. Yet only about the top 10 have higher ratings.
Division placement does not have much to do with when it started as well methinks (though obviously ones that start now are going to be easier) because my division started before or at the same time as corrupter tango and filled up at the same rate.
There is a division called zealot epsilon that has been growing much stronger recently, many good players are being filtered into it, yet the division started many days after the release date as far as i can tell.
Some divisions simply get good players filtered into it and i have no idea why.
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Hey guys.
Looking forward to casting this on Saturday. Should be some good games.
See you all there!
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Lol after training for this tourny It doesn't look like I can make it after all. Worst timing ever. :p
Please remove my entry. Thanks!
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On August 26 2010 15:17 opticalza wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2010 13:19 ThunderGod wrote:I hope you know that rating points has very little to do with skill. A player in Corruptor Tango with 400 rating points is of similar skill to a player in say Carrier Kilo (or any of the newer Diamond divisions) with 1200 points. The fact the tournament is double elimination means you don't need to seed players. Or alternatively you could seed players in Blizzard's official top200 list and seed noone else. Or I guess you could do what you are doing at the moment, it's just not very scientific is all Edit: Also with that system one could hypothetically control their rating so as to get an easier bracket. Hi. Yes im aware points do not equal skill. However there is undoubtedly a correlation between the two, and that's the reason i chose to use it. I'm not sure what you mean by it's not very scientific, this was meant to help even out the spread of players, based on their ladder data. There really isn't anything else empirical that will cover all participants that has some meaning. The top 200 list is undoubtedly more accurate, as it is most likely not tainted by the bonus pool inflation, but that is purely speculation, and more importantly, it doesn't have data for the majority of players in the tournament. As for points being different on a division basis - i don't think that is true based off what i have read here on TL about the ladder system, as well as what the sc2ranks developer has stated about it. It also seems logical that the way blizzard has done divisions is that are simply wrappers for the league, to try give people a sense of accomplishment when they move up a rank. What is true is that moving up "ranks" in a division like Corruptor Tango is harder then in Carrier Kilo . Finally though, i did not intend to intrude on anything. It is your clan, your tournament, and ultimately your decision. I was trying to help Reflex out to make things go smoother and help the NZ scene a little in my own way (programming). My apologies if I've come across as trying to run the show or say that this is how things will be done, or any thing to that extent. Cheers :D
Hey no problem optical I am really glad you are helping out the NZ scene. And you're right that there is no good way to seed all players.
I'm not aiming this at you or anybody particular. I just see a lot of people working under the wrong impressions, and this is Blizzard's fault for not making things clear (plus keeping their MMR formula secret). So this post will simply and briefly attempt to explain the implications of MMR and display rating being different (with examples! :D)
To start off I think some people are getting the hidden rating (MMR) mixed up with the displayed rating. They are not the same. MMR is a separate rating used for matchmaking. Players of the same MMR will (theoretically at least) have the same skill. However although display points is a decent indicator of skill there is zero correlation between skill and the displayed rating points. (See point 2)
Firstly there is the bonus pool system which skews displayed ratings; even if everyone uses all their bonus points players who join the division later will be disadvantaged since they start on a lower rating (there is a significant drop in points when a player is promoted from Platinum to Diamond).
Secondly we look at what Blizzard intended the display rating for. Why have two different ratings anyway?? Well its beacuse Blizzard wants us all in separate divisions of 100 players so we can feel like we are improving and have goals to work towards. (Sounds better than rank 1236 or something). But not all divisions are equal in skill (refer point 3 ).
Lets say Division A has the 10 best players in the world all on 1000 points, 50 average players all on 500 points, and 40 equally bad players on 10 points. The points differentiate their skill correctly. Division B has 10 average players on 1000 points and of equal skill to the 50 in Division A who are on 500. B also has a bunch of 89 scrubs on 500 points who are worse than 99 of the players in Division A, and B has the worst player in diamond, who is on 1 point. Here the points also differentiate their skill correctly.
This is a simplistic example but you can see that an average player in Div B has 500 more points than an equally average player in Div A. So the display rating is a way to compare the relative strengths of players in a particular division. Hypothetically we could have a division with 99 awful players on 1 point and a top player in the world on 9001 points.
This link explains how the MMR and display rating of players interacts when finding matches and calling you 'favoured' et al (among other things): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=142211 part 1 is easier to understand: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=118212
Thirdly, (and this is the piece of concrete evidence Blizzard has given us) we can see players on the top200 list, a list comprised of the top 200 by MMR.
If we look at the list from 16 Aug, 78 of the top 200 players are in Corruptor Tango. Now this can not be explained by people just spamming games because at this time (ie a week ago) according to sc2ranks Turaxis Tau had both more average games played and a higher average points total, yet only 15 people in the top 200. Lets look at a real example from the current list.
We have 3 players Bull, Kinetic and Fenneth. According to sc2ranks
Bull is a player from Kerrigan Pi with 1181 rating ponts and a win ratio of 56.39%.
Kinetic is a player from Corruptor Tango with 929 rating points and a win ratio of 57.78%.
Fenneth is a player from Turaxis Tau with 1292 rating points and a win ratio of 59.10%.
According to sc2ranks their rankings on display points are Bull=6th, Kinetic=58th, Fenneth=4th.
According to Blizz their rankings on hidden rating points are Bull=81, Kinetic=34th, Fenneth=23rd.
Note they all have similar win ratios and all three of these division were among the first.
Bull has much lower MMR than Kinetic and yet 250 more points.
Fenneth has 350 more points than Kinetic and a better win ratio but only a slightly higher MMR.
Fenneth has only 100 more points than Bull but a much higher MMR.
Clearly the two different points systems are not the same. Furthermore we can infer that the displayed rating points (as seen on sc2ranks) are not equivalent between divisions. In this example Corruptor Tango > Turaxis Tau > Kerrigan Pi. (In the top 200 the representation is 78>15>4).
Judging by the similar MMR of Fenneth and Kinetic one could approximate that at this point in time 930 rating points in Corruptor Tango is equivalent to perhaps 1100-1200 points in Turaxis Tau.
More evidence: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=146009
Hope this helps someone!
Cheers
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woah you waaaaay overreacted there thunder. Points is a decent indicator of skill, obviously points do differ from real ratings a little bit but its fine
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Yeah I'm not trying to say you can't compare people by points. I'm just trying to give evidence why its inaccurate lol and also persuade people that 500 CT points does not equal 500 Carrier Kilo points heh.
But tbh the inaccuracy will probably get worse as the season goes on. For the weak divisions with a few strong players (e.g. Turaxis Tau) the points will get more overinflated relative to the other divisions. [Divisions which are competitive amongst the top players shouldn't get any worse tho].
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Flaunt
791
Terran
Just incase u forgot :D
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On August 26 2010 21:41 ThunderGod wrote:
Yeah I'm not trying to say you can't compare people by points. I'm just trying to give evidence why its inaccurate lol and also persuade people that 500 CT points does not equal 500 Carrier Kilo points heh.
But tbh the inaccuracy will probably get worse as the season goes on. For the weak divisions with a few strong players (e.g. Turaxis Tau) the points will get more overinflated relative to the other divisions. [Divisions which are competitive amongst the top players shouldn't get any worse tho].
Yeah, you're right about points being different too the MMR/Elo of the players. I cannot say i've done much research into the differences between two divisions, so i'll take your word for it. The difference between MMR/Points will certainly get worse though.
Anyhow, back onto the topic.
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Crimson
638
Protoss
Good luck everyone!
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I know its a bit last minute but can I change my set race to zerg ^^
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Looking forward to this! Will catch the first few rounds at least.
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On August 28 2010 13:39 DejaVoo wrote:
I know its a bit last minute but can I change my set race to zerg ^^
Yup
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YAY!!! I'm not the last ranked player. XD
Thankfully it's double elimination, so then I can get owned in two games, and still be able to watch MSL tonight. ^^
Serious part: Best of luck to everyone playing tonight, and have fun.
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PM me on irc results only, make the pms clear and concise on so i can update the brackets quickly in this tournament.
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Best of luck to everybody.
Been looking forward to casting this one all week.
Have fun!
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Not sure if you saw this: (from IRC)
[18:48] <dakrynveii> okay
[18:48] <dakrynveii> looks like i wont be able to play
[18:48] <dakrynveii> its terrorblade here
I assume its legit.
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Bah, was far too nervous, especially knowing I was on stream ^^.
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Can someone please post some instructions for irc. I am having a lot of troubles with it (half an hour of troubles T_T)
Many thanks.
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come on msn I'll help you if you'd like
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Nothing works T_T
Just get my internet freezing and have to restart router and comp to get it back.
Thanks for the help.
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lost my games, that's me done
Cheers for the tournament.
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On August 28 2010 16:30 LipsOfDeceit wrote:
Bah, was far too nervous, especially knowing I was on stream ^^.
yeah i was really nervous r1 too. then loser bracket game i was like BAH IDC ANYMORE IM A FAILURE and played nicely
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On August 28 2010 17:27 L3g3nd_ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2010 16:30 LipsOfDeceit wrote:
Bah, was far too nervous, especially knowing I was on stream ^^. yeah i was really nervous r1 too. then loser bracket game i was like BAH IDC ANYMORE IM A FAILURE and played nicely
good kiwi mentality
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Thunder are you here, because you are disced from bnet, and we got a game.
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rofl i got owned, to much crap happaning at once for my poor mind.
Dissapointed alot of people pulled a no show and didnt contact me.. made it a bit stressful/annoying.
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Some great games.
Congrats to AlwaysYou, beating stroggos in the finals.
A lot of fun to cast. Thanks to everybody that tuned in. Hope to do it again sometime.
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GG's everyone, thanks for participating and casting. Was fun.
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gg's, finals were a good watch. congrats alwaysyou
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Thanks for organizing, was a good tourney. Did better then i expected too!
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massive good one guys - go the nzl community revival!
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/8307/nztourney.png)
![[image loading]](http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/1361/shearbrilliance.png)
![[image loading]](http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/6661/37665408.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Picon_small.png)
Kowi -1![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Ticon_small.png)
MassMarine +24![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Zicon_small.png)
AlwaysYou +1
