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On August 23 2010 07:05 Catreina wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2010 06:55 Alou wrote:
Catreina- It wasn't admins call. lol. It was players call. You should never give the player the option to screw over his opponent. Because when you do, and he does screw over his opponent, you get what you have here. A bunch of people complaining about how he chose to advance in the tournament. Players should have no decision what so ever in how a disconnect handles. It should be the tournament organizer/administrator's decision. Players can obviously say "I think I won" or "I think we can just do a redo, its no big deal", but you can't give the player the opportunity to take a win from his opponent (unless its literally him killing the base with a huge army) as there is always a chance the other guy can come back. Next time, don't try and dodge issues like this with a "let the players decide" judgment and just make the call yourself after reviewing the state of the game at the time of the disconnect and move on. This whole thing of "after this time in the game, the players can decide" is crap. Look at the replay, make a decision, and go with it. Also, refine your rules for next time. Look at the the rules of other successful tournaments and follow those as guidelines.
Tesla - you have no reason to be upset. You weren't online at the time, so Catreina was well within her right to make the call herself. It was horrible call granted, but she could decide whatever she wanted. Next time, be there so you can make the calls with her. And don't distance yourself because one thing (well a lot of things) went wrong or didn't go your way. It makes you look bad and people won't want to work with you because when things get tough you get going. Or that's how it looks. Be proud of your horrible attempt at a 512 man tournament.
Waiting to root for Lyra <3 Great advice, but a little late. I am now damned if I do (rematch, where ajtls will likely drop and be very BM about the whole thing, as well as the thought that I reversed myself), and damned if I dont (ajtls gets a walk into the finals as a result of a possibly bad, but obviously difficult decision) I made a call, I dont want to do a reverse on myself. I have made it known that I did not agree with ajtls not allowing a replay, but what the hell am I supposed to do now? I made myself a Cask of Amontillado, and now I am stuck.
Welcome to the 2010 FIFA World Cup
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Sad day when a tournament's thrown in the fire because one kid desire for glory/prizes.
Believe it or not this tournament was about a community coming together. Ajtls disrespected his fellow gamer (part of the community) and like a ripple effect the disrespect spreads on outward.
People are now completely focused on wins and losses rather then great competition, community development and of course the children's charity.
Being politically correct on issues is sometimes less important that doing the right thing. Show some class and some balls..
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very professional of the admins to revoke their decision and inform ajtls last minute, so he has to take more time out of poker now.
to say the least - he's extremely pissed that he gets informed last minute, and being down in poker today. congrats, he's going to play on tilt, lose, and leave.
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On August 23 2010 07:20 JackThunder wrote:
Sad day when a tournament's thrown in the fire because one kid desire for glory/prizes.
Believe it or not this tournament was about a community coming together. Ajtls disrespected his fellow gamer (part of the community) and like a ripple effect the disrespect spreads on outward.
People are now completely focused on wins and losses rather then great competition, community development and of course the children's charity.
Being politically correct on issues is sometimes less important that doing the right thing. Show some class and some balls..
several other top gamers told him to take the w.o too (if you didnt see the chat conversations). he discussed it with other top gamers before doing it.
edit - we didn't see kespa revoking jaedongs win over flash through the power outage. pretty much the same fucking thing. jaedong might or might not have had the lead, but it didnt matter.
kespa must be fucking idiots too? and jaedong must be extremely bm for allowing it. no, jaedong said "i must take the win" because winning is all that matters.
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On August 23 2010 07:21 KamuL wrote:
very professional of the admins to revoke their decision and inform ajtls last minute, so he has to take more time out of poker now.
to say the least - he's extremely pissed that he gets informed last minute, and being down in poker today. congrats, he's going to play on tilt, lose, and leave.
What he does in his spare time/off time/for work has no bearing on this. Tesla notified him earlier and he proceeded to disco immediately.
I told him AND silver last night that the decision might be overturned, that I had to talk to Tesla about it first. Sorry that he conveniently forgets this point.
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Him seeking out justification in his actions does not make it right. As I'm sure you're aware theres also a lot more player that were against it. Being a top player does not make you an expert on ethics btw. Ethics is usually thats decided by the majority.
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On August 23 2010 07:21 KamuL wrote:
very professional of the admins to revoke their decision and inform ajtls last minute, so he has to take more time out of poker now.
to say the least - he's extremely pissed that he gets informed last minute, and being down in poker today. congrats, he's going to play on tilt, lose, and leave.
So what's the news? now they're going to replay the last game?
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yes.
ajtls isnt happy about it, but like I said earlier I am damned if I do and damned if I dont.
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he's only mad because he was informed last minute, and he's tilting because of a bad day in poker, and now having to delay going back even more.
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On August 23 2010 07:36 KamuL wrote:
he's only mad because he was informed last minute, and he's tilting because of a bad day in poker, and now having to delay going back even more.
This is not last minute. Its only maybe 6:45 pm est. Further more its only match 3 that they are having to redo. Not the whole thing.
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On August 23 2010 07:08 ICCup.Tesla wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2010 06:55 Alou wrote:
Catreina- It wasn't admins call. lol. It was players call. You should never give the player the option to screw over his opponent. Because when you do, and he does screw over his opponent, you get what you have here. A bunch of people complaining about how he chose to advance in the tournament. Players should have no decision what so ever in how a disconnect handles. It should be the tournament organizer/administrator's decision. Players can obviously say "I think I won" or "I think we can just do a redo, its no big deal", but you can't give the player the opportunity to take a win from his opponent (unless its literally him killing the base with a huge army) as there is always a chance the other guy can come back. Next time, don't try and dodge issues like this with a "let the players decide" judgment and just make the call yourself after reviewing the state of the game at the time of the disconnect and move on. This whole thing of "after this time in the game, the players can decide" is crap. Look at the replay, make a decision, and go with it. Also, refine your rules for next time. Look at the the rules of other successful tournaments and follow those as guidelines.
Tesla - you have no reason to be upset. You weren't online at the time, so Catreina was well within her right to make the call herself. It was horrible call granted, but she could decide whatever she wanted. Next time, be there so you can make the calls with her. And don't distance yourself because one thing (well a lot of things) went wrong or didn't go your way. It makes you look bad and people won't want to work with you because when things get tough you get going. Or that's how it looks. Be proud of your horrible attempt at a 512 man tournament.
Waiting to root for Lyra <3 This last part - You are right I should have been here but I couldnt be, cause my pc crashed. Further more - why would it make me look bad? I am not worried about that. I am not here for appearance, unlike others. You know what I mean there, I am sure Alou.
I really don't know what you mean. I could care less about how I appear to anyone.
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On August 23 2010 06:30 KamuL wrote:
he wasn't being bm, he was using the rules. he was given the choice to take the w.o or replay, and he chose the w.o
Kamul, stop defending AJ. The point is, AJ dropped out of game 1 while Silver was leading, and Silver was gracious enough to allow a rematch for that game. Silver could have easily taken the win when AJ dropped but Silver showed his sportsmanship.
this rule was almost used against him several times in this tournament, and would've been implemented every single time, since people asked you on stream in day 1, and you said its a win for whoever didn't disconnect.
The difference is, Silver didn't use the rule against AJ, and in return AJ was BM and decided to use it against Silver - because AJ is a selfish p****. How selfish is AJ? Well, AJ needs to play today anyways to finish the tournament and AJ was offered the option of finishing the match with Silver today (because AJ claimed he was sleepy) - and AJ still refused!
nothing he said or did was bm, he didn't flame the admins, or silver, or anything.
Are you AJ' sock or are you his clan mate? Because everything AJ did was BM and poor sportsmanship. If AJ and Silver don't have the rematch, I really hope AJ is banned from other tournaments for his poor sportsmanship in this one.
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On August 23 2010 07:08 ICCup.Tesla wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2010 06:55 Alou wrote:
Catreina- It wasn't admins call. lol. It was players call. You should never give the player the option to screw over his opponent. Because when you do, and he does screw over his opponent, you get what you have here. A bunch of people complaining about how he chose to advance in the tournament. Players should have no decision what so ever in how a disconnect handles. It should be the tournament organizer/administrator's decision. Players can obviously say "I think I won" or "I think we can just do a redo, its no big deal", but you can't give the player the opportunity to take a win from his opponent (unless its literally him killing the base with a huge army) as there is always a chance the other guy can come back. Next time, don't try and dodge issues like this with a "let the players decide" judgment and just make the call yourself after reviewing the state of the game at the time of the disconnect and move on. This whole thing of "after this time in the game, the players can decide" is crap. Look at the replay, make a decision, and go with it. Also, refine your rules for next time. Look at the the rules of other successful tournaments and follow those as guidelines.
Tesla - you have no reason to be upset. You weren't online at the time, so Catreina was well within her right to make the call herself. It was horrible call granted, but she could decide whatever she wanted. Next time, be there so you can make the calls with her. And don't distance yourself because one thing (well a lot of things) went wrong or didn't go your way. It makes you look bad and people won't want to work with you because when things get tough you get going. Or that's how it looks. Be proud of your horrible attempt at a 512 man tournament.
Waiting to root for Lyra <3 I am not upset. You are correct - I wasnt online. My pc blue screened. However considering that she decided to push the finals off for today, she could have said that we would announce an official decision today as well. The things that went wrong were not my fault. This last part - You are right I should have been here but I couldnt be, cause my pc crashed. Further more - why would it make me look bad? I am not worried about that. I am not here for appearance, unlike others. You know what I mean there, I am sure Alou. I am actually here for the community because I care about the community and care to see things go well. I will continue to host and cast tournaments, just not with Cat as we have many things we can not agree on. I will say one final thing about this - When silver was gracious and gave the rematch it should have set forth that the final match they played, should have been the same. NEVER should it be the players choice. Once again the rules were based off of official rules and iccup rules. So here is what should have happened: * 1: If a player disconnects while in the middle of the match, the following will be done. - A: Who ever could have ended the game at the time of disconnect gets the win. - B: If the game was a stalemate, then the game must be replayed. - C: If a player was in a match and the match was 7 minutes or less, and a player disconnects - The game must be a rematch.
Bolded the important sentence.
I have nothing to input to the majority of the discussion and my opinion means nothing, but I do want to point out one thing anyway.
You can't go into business with someone, have them make a bad yet legal investment on your behalf, in your absence, and then try to get your money back when it goes under. You are responsible for making sure the person you give your money to is on the same page as you.
As the tournament host and co-admin, you are equally responsible for any decisions your admin team makes. Before jumping into bed with co-hosts, you need to make sure you are all on the same page. You had the responsibility to make sure the person representing you in your absence agreed with you on major issues. Granted, some issues can't be planned for, but I think it may be an unhealthy mindset in the long run to tell yourself that you aren't at fault just because you weren't there.
As much as I hate to admit it though, I could see there being plenty of shit flying around if catreina had made her decision against the rules that were agreed upon and forced a replay. There will always be a mob frothing at the mouth, ready to cut heads off, in weird situations.
The true jackass of the situation is battlenet.
We really shouldnt have this many connectivity problems in 2010 with a game developed by one of the wealthiest game companies in the world. (That's assuming a majority of the connection problems are server side)
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On August 23 2010 07:52 StarcraftMan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2010 06:30 KamuL wrote:
he wasn't being bm, he was using the rules. he was given the choice to take the w.o or replay, and he chose the w.o Kamul, stop defending AJ. The point is, AJ dropped out of game 1 while Silver was leading, and Silver was gracious enough to allow a rematch for that game. Silver could have easily taken the win when AJ dropped but Silver showed his sportsmanship. Show nested quote +
this rule was almost used against him several times in this tournament, and would've been implemented every single time, since people asked you on stream in day 1, and you said its a win for whoever didn't disconnect.
The difference is, Silver didn't use the rule against AJ, and in return AJ was BM and decided to use it against Silver - because AJ is a selfish p****. How selfish is AJ? Well, AJ needs to play today anyways to finish the tournament and AJ was offered the option of finishing the match with Silver today (because AJ claimed he was sleepy) - and AJ still refused! Show nested quote +
nothing he said or did was bm, he didn't flame the admins, or silver, or anything.
Are you AJ' sock or are you his clan mate? Because everything AJ did was BM and poor sportsmanship. If AJ and Silver don't have the rematch, I really hope AJ is banned from other tournaments for his poor sportsmanship in this one.
Hate to say it but I agree with the original decision. Ajtls' decision was BM but it was his choice. He SHOULD of returned the favor and replay game 3 but he doesn't have to.
Honestly there's a reason why there's the word 'sportsmanship' if sportsmanship/gm was required in every game then those words wouldn't even exist 
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On August 23 2010 07:52 StarcraftMan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2010 06:30 KamuL wrote:
he wasn't being bm, he was using the rules. he was given the choice to take the w.o or replay, and he chose the w.o Kamul, stop defending AJ. The point is, AJ dropped out of game 1 while Silver was leading, and Silver was gracious enough to allow a rematch for that game. Silver could have easily taken the win when AJ dropped but Silver showed his sportsmanship. Show nested quote +
this rule was almost used against him several times in this tournament, and would've been implemented every single time, since people asked you on stream in day 1, and you said its a win for whoever didn't disconnect.
The difference is, Silver didn't use the rule against AJ, and in return AJ was BM and decided to use it against Silver - because AJ is a selfish p****. How selfish is AJ? Well, AJ needs to play today anyways to finish the tournament and AJ was offered the option of finishing the match with Silver today (because AJ claimed he was sleepy) - and AJ still refused! Show nested quote +
nothing he said or did was bm, he didn't flame the admins, or silver, or anything.
Are you AJ' sock or are you his clan mate? Because everything AJ did was BM and poor sportsmanship. If AJ and Silver don't have the rematch, I really hope AJ is banned from other tournaments for his poor sportsmanship in this one.
i live with him, and if you watch the replay of game 1, silver cant defend a counter push, which is clearly coming from the replay.
also several top name players (the chat with infernal is posted here) also told him 'dont you ever fucking waste money by being nice. this isnt fucking a game"
so are you going to flame the shit out of one of the most respected sc1 bw protoss' in history too? it wasn't just his decision, he asked several top players, and they all said take the w.o
silver also isn't liked at the top levels, namely thanks to idra, so that might be why they all said to take the win, but meh.
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On August 23 2010 08:04 KamuL wrote:
i live with him, and if you watch the replay of game 1, silver cant defend a counter push, which is clearly coming from the replay.
Don't you get it? Whether Silver can or can't defend from a counter push is irrelevant. What is relevant is Silver was gracious enough to AJ to allow a regame when Silver could have taken the win.
Convserely, AJ was not gracious enough to allow a regame when Silver disconnected - after Silver was gracious to AJ in the first place. If that isn't the definition of poor sportsmanship and BM, I don't know what is.
BTW, do you realize that if Silver had taken the win in the first game, the series could have ended earlier? AJ complained that it was getting too late - yet it ended up getting later because Silver allowed a rematch!
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On August 23 2010 08:01 crazeman wrote:
Hate to say it but I agree with the original decision. Ajtls' decision was BM but it was his choice. He SHOULD of returned the favor and replay game 3 but he doesn't have to.
I'm actually not contradicting the "legality" of AJ's decision - it was well within the legality of the rules. I'm questioning the morality of AJ's decision - which is obviously poor sportsmanship.
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Really tough situation to be in for Catreina and Tesla... they shouldn't have been not arguing over this thread and being all impulsive about it...
It's obviously not easy to organise tournament this big, where many things can go wrong, and people must appreciate their effort... Ruling was a bit sloppy, but this is not professional level organization, so don't expect wonders...
I think that they made correct decision in the end (although I understand Catreina's on the fly ruling, because something most have been done, at that point, and later sticking to it... which would everyone normal do).
However reaction of community should be listened, just like blizzard listen to players and will eventually nerf terran  - which is NOT OP in my opinion - its just easier to be good with terran than with other races
In the end, Silver is obviously better player then ajtls (2nd match harassing and staying in the game when should have lost tens of minutes earlier), and that kid just took a chance to WO one of the better players at the moment (should have lost to Trump, who played like he doesn't wanna play Silver, although is better player than ajtls, also)
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On August 23 2010 08:04 KamuL wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2010 07:52 StarcraftMan wrote:On August 23 2010 06:30 KamuL wrote:
he wasn't being bm, he was using the rules. he was given the choice to take the w.o or replay, and he chose the w.o Kamul, stop defending AJ. The point is, AJ dropped out of game 1 while Silver was leading, and Silver was gracious enough to allow a rematch for that game. Silver could have easily taken the win when AJ dropped but Silver showed his sportsmanship.
this rule was almost used against him several times in this tournament, and would've been implemented every single time, since people asked you on stream in day 1, and you said its a win for whoever didn't disconnect.
The difference is, Silver didn't use the rule against AJ, and in return AJ was BM and decided to use it against Silver - because AJ is a selfish p****. How selfish is AJ? Well, AJ needs to play today anyways to finish the tournament and AJ was offered the option of finishing the match with Silver today (because AJ claimed he was sleepy) - and AJ still refused!
nothing he said or did was bm, he didn't flame the admins, or silver, or anything.
Are you AJ' sock or are you his clan mate? Because everything AJ did was BM and poor sportsmanship. If AJ and Silver don't have the rematch, I really hope AJ is banned from other tournaments for his poor sportsmanship in this one. i live with him, and if you watch the replay of game 1, silver cant defend a counter push, which is clearly coming from the replay. also several top name players (the chat with infernal is posted here) also told him 'dont you ever fucking waste money by being nice. this isnt fucking a game" so are you going to flame the shit out of one of the most respected sc1 bw protoss' in history too? it wasn't just his decision, he asked several top players, and they all said take the w.o silver also isn't liked at the top levels, namely thanks to idra, so that might be why they all said to take the win, but meh.
Based on Catreina's call, it doesn't matter if Silver can defend or can't defend. On their call, if Silver was at one supply depot and AJ disconnected, Silver could have the win if he chose too. Sure, according to the admin's horrible rules, AJ CAN take the win. But it's stupid to defend him for it and say he's some cool dude when he took a free win from Silver, when Silver let him regame.
And yeah, I would flame the shit out of any top player who does this. It's a dick thing to do to someone who was respectful enough to give you a second game because of a disconnect. I can't say what I would do in the situation. Hell, I'd probably do the same thing AJ, but is still a horrible thing to do.
They offered him to play it tomorrow, he still said no. That whole "Im tired whine whine" thing is complete crap then. He just wanted an easy win against a player he wasn't sure he could beat.
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well he lost, and if anyone saw the games, he kept getting psi stuck and played terrible compared to the form he showed vs trump and in the previous games vs silver.
shows up 30minutes before finals, and is told he has to paly silver, having played 0 games today to practice or warmup.
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EPT
