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On May 25 2010 03:43 mrddt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2010 03:33 Salv wrote:On May 25 2010 03:15 mrddt wrote:
So wheres VODs of final, I dont get it??? I didnt find one on TL. Theres vods in low quality in russian site, but it should be VODs in HD! ? ... There are the HDH vods on some Russian site? Sure! http://www.sc2tv.ru/starcraft-2/sc2-live/2237-hdn-invitational-final-whitera-vs-idra.htmlif you want to download, click the link "24may-hdh-final.torrent" (its torrent link) but quality is bad! and half of 1st set is missing. Its strange that theres no VODs on TL (and on youtube too), cuz, as i know, Day9 was one of the commentators 
Nice! I didn't know about this, cheers 
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Russian Federation11 Posts
No problemo 
But I'll wait for high-quality VODs... I hope they will be soon...
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On May 25 2010 03:43 mrddt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2010 03:33 Salv wrote:On May 25 2010 03:15 mrddt wrote:
So wheres VODs of final, I dont get it??? I didnt find one on TL. Theres vods in low quality in russian site, but it should be VODs in HD! ? ... There are the HDH vods on some Russian site? Sure! http://www.sc2tv.ru/starcraft-2/sc2-live/2237-hdn-invitational-final-whitera-vs-idra.htmlif you want to download, click the link "24may-hdh-final.torrent" (its torrent link) but quality is bad! and half of 1st set is missing. Its strange that theres no VODs on TL (and on youtube too), cuz, as i know, Day9 was one of the commentators
Thank you!
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So is there any news on when the TLO v Nony games will be played/casted?
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On May 25 2010 03:01 Spidinko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2010 02:46 Newguy wrote:On May 24 2010 19:24 Spidinko wrote:On May 24 2010 10:56 forgotten0ne wrote:
The difference between Idra vs White-Ra and Sen vs White-Ra is simple. Sen actually uses his brain.
Idra = speedy mechanical monkey
Sen = high apm genius
Also, this tournament really makes you think about how nearly impossible it is to live off being a pro-gamer. White-Ra just spent a month winning $2500. If he could do this every month (meaning there would have to be a tournament, AND he would have to win every time), he would still be making a "decent" wage. Granted, that's US standards, which is why we're the last country to have any sort of true e-Sports. Good news is that you won't be the last, though. AFAIK there are countries with higher average salary. But your point still stands. Earing a decent living as a progamer is almost impossible. There is no reason for sponsors to pay more for the tournaments, though. If they pay 5k then almost every top player would be willing to participate. There is definitely a reason for sponsors to pay more for tournaments - Idra vs Whitera topped 25,000 viewers. If a sponsor pays $5,000 in prizes, that is paying 20 cents for each viewer to hear and associate their name with the tournament . . . most big companies would happily throw away twenty cents a person to gain potential customers, I would think that HD and Husky could easily get more sponsorships for HDH tournaments, considering the gigantic viewer base that they attracted for the live cast, not to mention the many views the vods will rack up. I agree but my point was that companies don't want to spend more money they have to. Why would they pay 10k if, say, 2k is enough to get them that many viewers. If you pay 10k you don't get 5x more viewers. E-sports is used to having 'low' prize pools. So $5k is going to attract as many viewers as $10k is because almost every possible fan is already dying to see the games played out. What's more important, though, is advertising the tournament. HD and Husky did great job at that. They created such a hype that a lot of people are now watching these games and that's more important than prize money.
Ya, but the casters can decide whether to accept a sponsor or not. If there are more than 1 companies interested (which there will be further in the future) they will have to either compete with each other for the best exposure or the caster can take a lot of "cheap" sponsors and give them equal but not great exposure.
It all hangs in the hands of the organizers to realize a better contract for the people involved.
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It looks like we found a way to load up the replays of Nony vs TLO!!
We will be casting them and will have more info soon
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On May 24 2010 05:29 Brad wrote:
I remember the CPL Counter Strike finals in 2004 having like 60k viewers, this is getting really close.
cpl summer 2004 CS finals had over 200k viewers
but cpl summer was huge with massive sponsers this is so impressive for first tournament cant wait to see more HDH tournaments!
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On May 25 2010 05:35 BeyondCtrL wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2010 03:01 Spidinko wrote:On May 25 2010 02:46 Newguy wrote:On May 24 2010 19:24 Spidinko wrote:On May 24 2010 10:56 forgotten0ne wrote:
The difference between Idra vs White-Ra and Sen vs White-Ra is simple. Sen actually uses his brain.
Idra = speedy mechanical monkey
Sen = high apm genius
Also, this tournament really makes you think about how nearly impossible it is to live off being a pro-gamer. White-Ra just spent a month winning $2500. If he could do this every month (meaning there would have to be a tournament, AND he would have to win every time), he would still be making a "decent" wage. Granted, that's US standards, which is why we're the last country to have any sort of true e-Sports. Good news is that you won't be the last, though. AFAIK there are countries with higher average salary. But your point still stands. Earing a decent living as a progamer is almost impossible. There is no reason for sponsors to pay more for the tournaments, though. If they pay 5k then almost every top player would be willing to participate. There is definitely a reason for sponsors to pay more for tournaments - Idra vs Whitera topped 25,000 viewers. If a sponsor pays $5,000 in prizes, that is paying 20 cents for each viewer to hear and associate their name with the tournament . . . most big companies would happily throw away twenty cents a person to gain potential customers, I would think that HD and Husky could easily get more sponsorships for HDH tournaments, considering the gigantic viewer base that they attracted for the live cast, not to mention the many views the vods will rack up. I agree but my point was that companies don't want to spend more money they have to. Why would they pay 10k if, say, 2k is enough to get them that many viewers. If you pay 10k you don't get 5x more viewers. E-sports is used to having 'low' prize pools. So $5k is going to attract as many viewers as $10k is because almost every possible fan is already dying to see the games played out. What's more important, though, is advertising the tournament. HD and Husky did great job at that. They created such a hype that a lot of people are now watching these games and that's more important than prize money. Ya, but the casters can decide whether to accept a sponsor or not. If there are more than 1 companies interested (which there will be further in the future) they will have to either compete with each other for the best exposure or the caster can take a lot of "cheap" sponsors and give them equal but not great exposure. It all hangs in the hands of the organizers to realize a better contract for the people involved.
Yea, but the scene is not that competitive for sponsors yet. Hopefully it'll get better.
Currently I don't think any organizers would say no to sponsor with $2k.
We'll have to see. Maybe SC2 will bring some big players (sponsorship-wise) into progaming scene.
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On May 25 2010 05:40 HuskyTheHusky wrote:It looks like we found a way to load up the replays of Nony vs TLO!! We will be casting them and will have more info soon
Yay!
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On May 25 2010 05:40 HuskyTheHusky wrote:It looks like we found a way to load up the replays of Nony vs TLO!! We will be casting them and will have more info soon
Excellent! :D Now we can watch that great set of games... oh yes, it WILL be EPIC. Another SC2 Beta classic, coming up! :p
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On May 25 2010 05:40 HuskyTheHusky wrote:It looks like we found a way to load up the replays of Nony vs TLO!! We will be casting them and will have more info soon
I'm hoping you're going to cast it as soon as possible. Beta is shutting down soon and a lot of players (viewers) may not come to watch your stream.
Good news, though! Can't wait to see Nony try to beat TLO. It's not easy (ask Freedom).
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On May 25 2010 06:09 Spidinko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2010 05:40 HuskyTheHusky wrote:It looks like we found a way to load up the replays of Nony vs TLO!! We will be casting them and will have more info soon I'm hoping you're going to cast it as soon as possible. Beta is shutting down soon and a lot of players (viewers) may not come to watch your stream. Good news, though! Can't wait to see Nony try to beat TLO. It's not easy (ask Freedom).
or it could be easy as toss (ask newlife) ^^; looking forward to the finale!
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On May 25 2010 03:01 Spidinko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2010 02:46 Newguy wrote:On May 24 2010 19:24 Spidinko wrote:On May 24 2010 10:56 forgotten0ne wrote:
The difference between Idra vs White-Ra and Sen vs White-Ra is simple. Sen actually uses his brain.
Idra = speedy mechanical monkey
Sen = high apm genius
Also, this tournament really makes you think about how nearly impossible it is to live off being a pro-gamer. White-Ra just spent a month winning $2500. If he could do this every month (meaning there would have to be a tournament, AND he would have to win every time), he would still be making a "decent" wage. Granted, that's US standards, which is why we're the last country to have any sort of true e-Sports. Good news is that you won't be the last, though. AFAIK there are countries with higher average salary. But your point still stands. Earing a decent living as a progamer is almost impossible. There is no reason for sponsors to pay more for the tournaments, though. If they pay 5k then almost every top player would be willing to participate. There is definitely a reason for sponsors to pay more for tournaments - Idra vs Whitera topped 25,000 viewers. If a sponsor pays $5,000 in prizes, that is paying 20 cents for each viewer to hear and associate their name with the tournament . . . most big companies would happily throw away twenty cents a person to gain potential customers, I would think that HD and Husky could easily get more sponsorships for HDH tournaments, considering the gigantic viewer base that they attracted for the live cast, not to mention the many views the vods will rack up. I agree but my point was that companies don't want to spend more money they have to. Why would they pay 10k if, say, 2k is enough to get them that many viewers. If you pay 10k you don't get 5x more viewers. E-sports is used to having 'low' prize pools. So $5k is going to attract as many viewers as $10k is because almost every possible fan is already dying to see the games played out. What's more important, though, is advertising the tournament. HD and Husky did great job at that. They created such a hype that a lot of people are now watching these games and that's more important than prize money.
Who's to say they can't have more than one sponsor, just look at any tennis tournament and you'll see many different sponsors names plastered around everywhere.
Once the game gets released there'll be tons of sponsors queuing up, HDH will be able to go with the highest bidder(s). Remember this is the first test tournament of a game that's in beta, the stakes are only gonna get higher and higher.
I have a feeling that when the game gets released it won't be uncommon to see $20k+ prize pools for big tournaments like this.
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First, let me thank HDH, iRip, and the players for the great tournament. I was really impressed by how many viewers you guys were able to bring in, as well as how smooth the stream was with that many viewers. I know that the third place match still hasn't been cast but with the finals done, I feel like I no longer have to worry about the potential spoilers in this post.
Thoughts and Suggestions to HDH
Delayed Streaming: I do not disagree with delayed live streaming, or even replay casting. It was done in the TSL 2 and there's no reason why it wouldn't work in general, even if I think true live stream casting would be the ideal. Having said that, the ability to see the results via match history became a real issue once people started spamming spoilers in chat and in this thread.
I think this problem could have been avoided with a little extra work. In order to mask wins/losses, instead of having the loser leave first every match, one player should be designated the "seed" and be the one to leave first regardless of whether he wins/loses. That way, it'll show up as X losses for the "seed" player, where X is the number of games actually played. No one will then know the real results until the actual cast, though unfortunately they will still know what X is.
In order to mask X, the players could be asked to play dummy matches before or in-between the real ones (where all they do is build a base and then afk for a random number of minutes). Understandably, this is much more frustrating and time-consuming for the players. Even if this is not feasible, at least we would be spared the knowledge of who wins/loses until after the first few games have been streamed.
Alternatively, dummy accounts could be created by the organizers for the contestants to use. The organizers themselves could then flood the results with dummy matches in order to throw off would-be spoilers. This would require extra time on the part of the organizers, but would be much less demanding on the part of the players.
Hopefully, Blizzard will not show Custom Match histories during release or at least include a feature for blocking them. But in case they don't, and in case you are limited to one account even upon release, the above ideas can make it a lot harder for people to learn the results of each match before they are streamed.
Introductions and Interviews: One aspect of the TSL that I really missed in the HDH was the lack of player introductions and interviews. First, let's talk about the introductions. The TSL organizers went to great lengths to introduce and hype up each player before major matches, such that people who were not familiar with them before could get to know them. This was done both in text (on the TL website) and in the VODs themselves, as the casters were asked to talk about the players, the maps, and their predictions before the games started. Although considered a time waste by some, back when I was a newbie to the scene, this really helped me identify who was who and made the matches much more exciting.
Second, let's talk about the interviews. During the TSL, each major stage of the game was preceded by text interviews, and after the matches, winning players were also sometimes brought in for live interviews. I felt this policy made the tournament seem much more professional and also hyped up the matches a lot more. It's always good to put a face, a personality, and a background behind an identifier - it makes it much easier for the audience to get involved in the competition.
I would highly recommend HDH to consider having such additions in the next tournament they host.
Announcements, Brackets, and Scheduling Overall, I thought that the scheduling for the tournament was pretty good. Many people would have liked to see a faster tournament, particularly since this was Beta and so was subject to rapid patch changes. In general, however, stretching it out makes it feel more significant, which is how a big, high-money tournament like this should feel. The OSL and MSL are not over in two weeks, after all.
With regards to brackets, since this was an invitational and many players were invited for their fame within the community, I don't think bracketing them into "entertaining" groups is too detrimental. On the other hand, I would like to see future tournaments lean closer to the professional eSports scene of having qualifiers and elimination rounds. Group elimination is particularly a format that I'd like to see more in foreigner tournaments, and it would be great if someone - like HDH - could deliver on that.
Again, thanks HDH, iRip, and the players for the awesome tournament and I look forward to the Nony vs. TLO games!
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On May 25 2010 05:40 HuskyTheHusky wrote:It looks like we found a way to load up the replays of Nony vs TLO!! We will be casting them and will have more info soon
I can't wait! There's nothing like HD Finals games
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See, is it so hard to leave constructive criticism in a civil manner?
Thanks for your post Azarkon . I definitely agree with a lot of your points, those are all things we will look into doing if we bring more people on board to help run the tournament .
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I think the tournament was absolutely fantastic, great job to Husky and HD and anyone else who was involved.
Similar to some of what Azarkon said, I'm really excited about the potential for these sorts of tournaments in the future, and how they can improve. Imagine pre-match analysis and even pre and post-match interviews with the players over skype. That'd be awesome. I'd love to see the reactions from each player after losing or winning a series, their thoughts on what went right and wrong, what they could have done, etc. It's one thing for the commentators to guess, it's another thing to get it from the actual players.
I know this would be a LOT of work, and it's not gonna happen overnight, but I really do think it will happen eventually.
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When should we expect to see the third place match? By tomorrow, or on Sunday?
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Just wanted to say thanks to HD and Husky! You guys did a good job organizing the tournament and providing entertaining commentary.
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Sorry if I'm missing the obvious but since the third place match is being talked about does that mean the finals have already been posted somewhere? I checked both HD's and Husky's YouTube channels and can't find the commentaries.
Also, I know things are probably busy for you guys currently but I love you'r commentaries. Especially the 2v2, 3v3 and 4v4's. I hope videos are going to be posted more often then every couple of days and in some cases longer.
Thanks for all you'r hard work for free
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EPT
