I rly need help here, i CAN'T defend it! i am SO salty right now!

http://ggtracker.com/matches/6707034
http://ggtracker.com/matches/6700763

How do i need to react? it doesnt matter what i do i lose, is this rly not OP? Do i need to attack the canons or the pylons? When is the timing to attack what exactly? it feels so broken

hellokitty[hk]

United States1309 Posts

June 28 2016 19:28 GMT

Man it's hard to get canon rushed TvP, ouch, I'd be salty too.

Reevou

23 Posts

June 28 2016 19:33 GMT

The PiG Daily #28 - Beginner Basics - The art of Defence here's link to latest PiG Daily which shows pretty nicely how to hold early rushes and I tried to link it to the part where he shows how to hold cannon rushes

Inazuma

17 Posts

June 28 2016 20:14 GMT

You focused on the wrong target, a pylon in your base is not the threat, the cannon is.

To stop a TvP cannon rush, send 2 workers on the probe and finish your wall. Keep mining.

Only take 4 workers to attack the cannon once it is down, ignore all pylons, keep building workers and get your marine out asap. If they build on the low ground, you must open your gate to reach it, DO NOT let a second probe into your base.

After 2 marines and 0 cannons completed, you have basically defended.

The only dangerous cannon rush is ones where they build a pylon wall and a cannon behind your mineral line.

AleXusher

280 Posts

June 28 2016 21:03 GMT

hm ok ty

i will try that

BronzeKnee

United States5219 Posts

June 30 2016 18:12 GMT

Asking "when is the timing of the attack?" makes me think you didn't watch your own replay.

At start of the replay on King Sejong Station he sends two Probes immediately across the map and builds a Pylon on the high ground near your wall. You pulled a bunch of SCVs but target the Pylon not the Probes. That is the first mistake because this attack ends if you kill the Probes or deny the Cannons, the Pylons aren't a threat unless he has Warp Gate or a MSC, neither of which he will have. If you have to attack a structure, you should be attacking Cannons as they cost more, take longer to build, and have less health than Pylons.

But first, you should begin by using a few SCV's to trap and kill the Probe. That does not mean simply ordering them to attack and watching the SCV's follow the Probe, it requires micro. You should have one SCV chasing with the others spread out cutting the Probe off to the left and right (using the move command). If he turns, you're able to get a hit in with one of the move command SCVs (green arrows), if he says on a straight line, you'll get hit a in when hits the edge of the base, and if turns around the attack move SCV (red arrow) gets a hit in, as demonstrated in my excellent MS Paint picture:

[image loading]

These hits will add up quickly, especially if he goes to build a structures as the Probe will stop briefly and you should be able to get 2-3 hits in even if his micro is good.

Now, if the Protoss is good he will send multiple Probes and will get cannons down. So as mentioned, you need to, in the words of John McCain, "complete the danged fence" (it has morphed into a wall now and you should make the Protoss pay for it). Send four SCVs to attack every cannon building to ensure they die before they come down, and finishing the wall denies more Probes entry, so if you pick off the Probes on the high ground, any additional high ground cannons can only be built after he breaks the wall. Also you may be able to deny high ground vision and force the Protoss to use a Probe on the ramp to gain vision of your wall so the cannons can attack it, and of course then the Probe can be picked off.

Now, if the Protoss is really good, he will wall in constructing cannons with pylons. You need to prevent that by having SCV's nearby the building pylons to body block those attempts. So you can leave an SCV attacking pylons or on patrol if he is building in an area that can be walled off.

Finally, don't forget you can always lift if you screw up. I'd like to share more secrets, but I am a cannon rusher and a master never reveals all their tricks. Just remember that executing a perfect cannon rush is difficult, and requires large amounts of map studying to understand where you can pull one off and end up with an advantage if they lift.

But, I think it is appropriate to link this video to help everyone understand the plan. Just replace illegals with Protoss, drug and human smuggling with Cannon Rushing, Arizona with your base, troops with Marines, and law enforcement with SCVs.

Good luck, it'll work this time, John McCain is with you.

FoxDog

170 Posts

June 30 2016 20:47 GMT

i am isimba ben top 8 masters since the wol beta but ive beaten KpeHgeJIb many times on ladder, he does this build against masters players because he thinks hes so much better that it would be a waste of time playing straightup.

The cannon rush cannot be stopped, you have to try to run while backstabbing the protoss abusing the fact cannons cant move.

when i get cannonrushed i always let 3~ cannons finish and then liftoff my cc and just run my scvs, the cannons/pylons and early probe commitment means the protoss is behind even if you lose the depos and some workers.

In game 1 you could have won if you had gotten up a bunker, just because the protoss has his cannons up doesnt mean you have lost and this was way too early to capitulate

In game 2 you got up the bunker i mentioned, but it was put way too far in the back exposing your cc rax and gas, you had infinite repairs ready and the game was yours to win, but then you randomly type in and leave, all you had to do is make reapers and use the alternate cliff path to go to the protoss main

now what i learned from HTOmario (a multiple times top 16 gm terran who plays random/terran) was that you make 2 reapers and send them directly to the protoss main as he wont have tech or defence, then you do the aformentioned with the lifting and remaking your base, the protoss will try to build a cannon in his mineral line and if this gets up its pretty much gg if you play bio.

The cannonrush is unstoppable if executed correctly though, MIRG.Ninja on NA is infamous for doing it against prepared players in top 16 gm and pulling it off.

Here is how Sinder dealt with it

Here is how Fenner (zerg player) deals with it, again showing the cannonrush works against every race at every level including grandmasters.

BronzeKnee

United States5219 Posts

July 01 2016 00:27 GMT

On July 01 2016 05:47 FoxDog wrote:
The cannon rush cannot be stopped, you have to try to run while backstabbing the protoss abusing the fact cannons cant move.

Uh, it absolutely can be stopped, otherwise it would be the only build we'd see in the GSL and SSL. A lot of builds work on every race up to GM, this cheese is no different than any other.

The Sinder game you linked, he did exactly what I said not to, he send a train of SCVs after structures (more than could even hit the structure) and not the Probe and didn't micro versus the Probe. He still held, but it he made it way harder on himself.

I see Terran players pull of impressive stutter stepping, splitting versus banes and drop micro, but the basic micro required to trap and kill a Probe is missing for some reason, when I routinely do it in team games versus cannon rushers to stop them. It is much easier than the aforementioned micro skills, Terrans just need to do it.

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