|
Hey folks, I've been thinking about the powerful worker harassment options in LotV and I realized one thing: If I don't build defensive structures in time and in the right place, I'm going to lose a lot of workers. If a typical raiding party takes out 8 workers, for a total of 400 minerals (not including the amount needed to replace them), I could've built a couple of Missile Turrets or Photon Cannons or Spore Crawlers and kept my workers alive. I mean, if I'm going to lose those minerals anyway, might as well turn them into towers. Same mineral loss, but I get to keep my workers and future harassment will be less effective.
I was wondering... How do you place defensive structures optimally as any race? Terrans have the cheapest towers but they can't move and they can only shoot air. On the plus side, they deal a lot of damage to air. Zerg has mobile towers, making placement errors much less punishing. Protoss has the most versatile but also the most expensive towers, but they have to be within a power field, which means that it might cost more than 150 minerals for optimal placement.
A while back, I learned to place towers near the edges of the map to discouragae enemy transports from sneaking in through there. Just a single Missile Turret wards off enemy harassment and provides me with enough time to notice and react in case of an incoming doom drop or Death Fleet of Doom.
I also place a tower in the main path to my base to spot incoming cloaked and tunneling units. This is easier to do as Terran and Zerg, though Zerg doesn't usually have to do this due to the accessibility of Overseers. For Protoss, I find it harder to do because of the cost of Photon Cannons + the Pylon required.
Most of the time, I place two to three turrets around my mineral line, on both sides of the mineral concave. Sometimes, I place a third turret either away from my mineral line or in the middle of the concave.
Later in the game, I try to build a ring of towers around my main, as well as the edges of my territory. This is a lot easier to do as Terran or Zerg, and much harder as Protoss (because Pylons take a while to warp in, and Photon Cannons are expensive.
So, what's the optimal placement strategy for defensive structures?
P.S.
I think I remember a guide to defensive structures that I found either here or on the old Battle.net forums, but most of the old posts are long gone. Does anyone know where I can find it?
|
Against T, I build 2-4 spore cralwers per mineral line and only one spine crawler. I want to make sure they can't leave (kill the medivac). I can just run with the drones and bring my army to kill the MMT.
Against P, I use 2-4 spine crawlers and maybe a spore, if there is like a sweat spot where I'd expect a warp prism.
|
I have a question about the math involved. Suppose I normally lose 6 workers to an Oracle/Dropship/Muta Swarm before I push it back. Did did I lose 300 minerals (6 * 50 = 300), or did I lose 600 minerals (because I have to replace those workers)? Therefore, should I spend 300 minerals on defenses to avoid losing 6 workers, or 600 minerals?
I'm pretty sure it's the former (if I was going to lose 300 minerals worth of workers, I might as well build 300 minerals worth of defenses), but I'm not 100% sure (just around 80% sure).
|
United Kingdom20326 Posts
I have a question about the math involved. Suppose I normally lose 6 workers to an Oracle/Dropship/Muta Swarm before I push it back. Did did I lose 300 minerals (6 * 50 = 300), or did I lose 600 minerals (because I have to replace those workers)? Therefore, should I spend 300 minerals on defenses to avoid losing 6 workers, or 600 minerals?
You lost 300 minerals. Somebody killing one of your workers does not make 50 minerals dissapear from your bank so the cost doesn't happen twice - only rebuilding the worker actually costs you money
If a typical raiding party takes out 8 workers, for a total of 400 minerals (not including the amount needed to replace them), I could've built a couple of Missile Turrets or Photon Cannons or Spore Crawlers and kept my workers alive.
Very important thing to note here losing workers can cost a lot more than just the replacement minerals. It costs 400 minerals to replace them, but it also takes 96 seconds of time if it's from one nexus/CC.
I just measured the mining rates on frozen temple - close patch = ~75 minerals per minute per worker, far patch = ~55 minerals per minute per worker.
That means that when you lose 8 workers, for 1.6 minutes you're missing an average of 4 workers while replacing them. They would mine ~65 minerals per minute. 65*1.6*4 = 416 minerals - the cost of lost mining time is actually about as high as the cost of rebuilding the workers. You've lost over 800 minerals - 400 from the cost of the workers and 400 that they didn't mine while they were dead.
This varies a bit depending on the situation but it's a huge cost and should be taken into account when allocating defense (in both units and static D) for workers
On positioning, it depends what you're trying to defend against. A common response to phoenix PvT is one missile turret right in the middle of each mineral line and one missile turret in the middle of the production to protect freshly spawning units
|
The most optimal defensive structure would no defensive structure from a competetive point of view. It's money invested in immobile structures that can be avoided by your opponent and cannot attack your opponent.Generally speaking you win the game by having a larger army than your opponent so the optimal way to adress harass would be to use (parts of) your army to defend mineral lines.
That said, when you get up to 3+ bases it becomes impractical to defend drops and harass with ground based armies so you want to start investing into zoning AA structures if you're being threatened with drops or mineral line AA in the case of air-based mineral line harass (banshees, oracles, phoenix, mutalisks). One is usually enough in case of small harass but you can add AA if they invest into mass air.
Optimal placement is based on what angle the attack is ikely to come in from. Think about what angle you would come in from if you were trying to drop/ harass and build AA there. Don't think of static defense as a way to 100% prevent harass but rather a way to force your opponent to pay as much attention to his attack as you have to defend it. A shiftqueue'd air unit will likely die to your static defense, a microed air unit will take enough damage to where it can't get out for free when you contest it with units.
In general if you build enough static D that you're undroppable and unharassable you should lose in economy and army.
|
On April 23 2016 06:09 Eternal Dalek wrote:
Hey folks, I've been thinking about the powerful worker harassment options in LotV and I realized one thing: If I don't build defensive structures in time and in the right place, I'm going to lose a lot of workers.
Sometimes (like lategame as P or as terran against oracle) static defense is necessary. But you have to remember that static D costs resources as well. In early game it is much better to spend your resources on units and use your units to defend any harassment. Harassment might not even hit the base where you built static D making your investment completely useless.
If your opponent sees that you built static D they know that your army is weaker as a result and thus they can play more greedy.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
