EPT[G] Probe's Chargelot Immortal Macro PvZ - Page 2
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ihantmitoo
5 Posts
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TedBurtle
Belarus201 Posts
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BronzeKnee
United States5218 Posts
On December 13 2015 22:15 ihantmitoo wrote: carefull with standard roach hydra infestor vyper builds , you will might need an transition for colossus/disrupt if its come Vipers wreck Colossus and Disruptors... you have to have High Templars. | ||
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AusProbe
Australia235 Posts
On December 14 2015 03:02 TedBurtle wrote: random question....you play on CORE hotkeys? or just lefty? Yes I use the core. Older version of it that I have changed. On December 13 2015 17:53 cactus555 wrote: plz some replays vs broodlords+infestors+vipers, always dying at that stage of the game I don't have many replays, will try and get more. It is very hard to find stuff from super lategame because it usually doesn't get there. However tempest/skytoss army should do fine against that stuff. A skytoss ht army shouldn't lose in a straight up fight, so you just have to focus on expanding and denying their bases. On December 14 2015 05:41 BronzeKnee wrote: Vipers wreck Colossus and Disruptors... you have to have High Templars. Against roach hydra infestor viper they do reach a point where you need aoe to deal with it. Colo imo should not be built, but disruptors are the better answer over high templar. Yes they can be abducted, but they build quickly and are cheap, and having double robo for future immortal production is more worthwhile. You only need one disruptor hit to break them down enough and then chargelot immortal archon rolls over the rest. | ||
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AkashSky
United States257 Posts
Also, is there some particular reason as to why 5 phoenix? | ||
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GinDo
3327 Posts
On December 14 2015 05:41 BronzeKnee wrote: Vipers wreck Colossus and Disruptors... you have to have High Templars. Disruptors are better in my opinion. Really quick to pump out, pretty cheap for how much dmg they can dish. HT seem like a good idea because your ganna have alot of gas,but i have tried it and i normally just end up storming my own zealots. Or maybe i just need to storm further behind zerg for when they kite :/ | ||
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AusProbe
Australia235 Posts
On December 14 2015 08:40 AkashSky wrote: If I open gate gas nexus, is the scout even needed? (Isn't this safe vs everything early game?) Also, if i DO choose to scout, and see a three hatchery before pool play, how should I respond? Also, is there some particular reason as to why 5 phoenix? It is safe versus everything, but knowing what is coming really helps. For example, seeing a 12 pool drone pull before it gets to your base makes life a lot easier. My response to 3 hatch doesn't really change. You can't punish it, so just feel happy that you are not going to be allin'ed and any drop play will come after you have phoenix out. If you want to change it up a bit, you can get a quicker stargate against 3 hatch as they can't punish it. As for why we build 5 phoenix, it is just the number we settled upon over the years. 3 phoenix kills a queen in two lifts, 4 just barely kills a queen in one lift, and 5 it easily kills a queen. That, plus more energy for drone kills I guess is the reason why. | ||
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Teiphoon
Faroe Islands11 Posts
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TedBurtle
Belarus201 Posts
I love to tune, and adjust my timings by rewatching, but now i need to leave bnet ;/ | ||
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AusProbe
Australia235 Posts
On December 17 2015 15:46 TedBurtle wrote: Probe, weird question...but please, can you post 1-2 new replays, so we can watch them without leaving bnet. I love to tune, and adjust my timings by rewatching, but now i need to leave bnet ;/ Hope these work. http://sc2replaystats.com/replay/2184070 http://sc2replaystats.com/replay/2184068 http://sc2replaystats.com/replay/2184069 (This opener is different, but shows how the general unit composition works in general) | ||
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CTIA
France117 Posts
 game 1 | ||
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_Lapack
Japan17 Posts
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TedBurtle
Belarus201 Posts
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AusProbe
Australia235 Posts
herO built more phoenix than I would, and in one game he got storm really quickly. The phoenix increase I sort of like, but I don't think storm is going to be used in the standard macro style. Rather just something used sometimes for strong timings. PS: Inb4 people start calling me a copycat haha | ||
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NoisyNinja
United States991 Posts
On December 21 2015 08:05 mGGrinehart wrote: Updated the replay section with the VOD of herO doing it in GSL. Lots of Protoss have started doing this style, so over the next months it should probably evolve even more which is cool. herO built more phoenix than I would, and in one game he got storm really quickly. The phoenix increase I sort of like, but I don't think storm is going to be used in the standard macro style. Rather just something used sometimes for strong timings. PS: Inb4 people start calling me a copycat haha I don't think that at all. Sooner or later, this build was going to be discovered by a pro, regardless of who was using it first. I just used it on ladder and it worked really well. Definitely going to be my go-to since they nerfed the almighty Zealot Dance Party PvZ build. Edit: How do you deal with the immediate pool from the zerg? Your wall/zealot won't be complete and it really messes with the timings. | ||
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AusProbe
Australia235 Posts
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A_needle_jog
Korea (South)699 Posts
Timing so early I don't have good units and all my stuff dies  | ||
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TedBurtle
Belarus201 Posts
On December 21 2015 16:50 mGGrinehart wrote: If you are opening gate gas nexus you should be fine after scouting it. If you open nexus first, if you wall your ramp you probably will just die to a 12 pool. If you build your first pylon and gate next to your main nexus you just chrono the zealot and have good probe micro to delay etc. Yes it does mess with your timings, but it puts them behind if you hold it well. nice point. i should start not walling with nexus first | ||
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
On December 13 2015 09:56 mGGrinehart wrote: Against pure group zerg comps, I feel storm does not add a lot. Don't get me wrong, it is a very strong spell and sometimes I do get it, but because it mainly hits your zealots, and if you really needed aoe disruptors are better, in my opinion there isn't any point in the midgame to early lategame. Storm however is necessary against corruptor viper broodlord. I shall add that into the guide. Feedback is really good, but maybe I tunnel vision a bit. I seem to be able to make it work without keeping ht around. Of course, feedbacking infestors is a game winner, so if you want to include them, just don't morph 2 ht. The reason for Templar archives over dark shrine is that you will be floating gas. Therefore you can be more efficient in your spending, and have more money for cannons at your 4th/5th bases. Templar archives also build a lot quicker so it helps with timings. Opening phoenix already means that the zerg will have spores so your dark templar will do less damage in the midgame. However, they are a vital tool lategame and should be used. At first when I read this post I thought the idea was to try to goad your opponent into going air, and then hitting a timing where you have a perfect composition to steamroll them. But then going over some of your replays it just seems you don't do that and just go into macro. So what I mean is that yeah storm is pretty terrible vs. mass roach for instance but storm/ht/archons are fantastic vs. zerg air and anti-air like hydras and infestors. I can understand the logic in terms of your resource bank, but it just seems like a huge waste to burn all that gas on archons and to me seem like deadweight for big portions of the game. Have you tried incorporating something like Void Rays? As tech switches are so often the reason protoss can die in this matchup I think trying to force the issue and make zerg go air can pay huge dividends. | ||
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AusProbe
Australia235 Posts
On December 22 2015 04:29 Skyro wrote: At first when I read this post I thought the idea was to try to goad your opponent into going air, and then hitting a timing where you have a perfect composition to steamroll them. But then going over some of your replays it just seems you don't do that and just go into macro. So what I mean is that yeah storm is pretty terrible vs. mass roach for instance but storm/ht/archons are fantastic vs. zerg air and anti-air like hydras and infestors. I can understand the logic in terms of your resource bank, but it just seems like a huge waste to burn all that gas on archons and to me seem like deadweight for big portions of the game. Have you tried incorporating something like Void Rays? As tech switches are so often the reason protoss can die in this matchup I think trying to force the issue and make zerg go air can pay huge dividends. But archons are not dead weight. They tank so much, deal so much, and spread your units out when dealing with ultralisk. Stylistically I could be so much more aggressive, which would make the investment into archons better I think. But I play a really slow game that just comes down to starving my opponent through base denial, recalls and drops. Archons are still good in this situation. Yes, storm is good against hydra and infestor. But it doesn't fully kill roach hydra like disruptors do(also disruptors still work well when fungaled). Storm isn't very good against zerg air really. Broods have too much hp, muta regen, vipers don't do much to this style. Corruptors, yes, get wrecked, and that is why lategame I think storm is definitely needed. Bit funny when you thought I wanted the zerg player to go air. In fact I really hope he doesn't haha, God I hate playing against mutalisk styles haha. But yes, this is a macro build, which you can hit strong timings with though. I don't think incorporating void rays forces the zerg to go air at all (although once again, I really don't like playing against zerg air). The basic idea of opening phoenix is to get one step ahead of the zerg in terms of tech switches. For example, if you open robo, scout muta, you are forced to build double stargate. Then he just tech switches again, and you get this game that spirals out of control easily. Chargelot immortal can deal with every ground composition, so the phoenix STOP air play. In terms of opening void ray. I have been doing 2 stargate, 4 void ray after oracle, before going into charge. It seems to work quite well (dealing with mutalisk is one of the biggest problems imo, but on kr I have 200ms, so it makes it hard anyway). When you really get your archon void ray immortal chargelot army up and running, I think it is the strongest non skytoss max. I have to test it more though. | ||
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