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On January 24 2016 22:40 Maxie wrote:
When opening with a hatch first in ZvZ, how do you deal with the first lings that can arrive in your base before you have any defense up? If I open with a 17 hatch 17 pool 16 gas, and my opponent does a 13/12 then depending on the map and positions there can be a 7-16 second gap where 6 lings are in my main and I have nothing but drones. Simply A-moving the drones hasn't been working out for me.
I'm maybe gold or so, but this is a situation I am decently comfortable with, as I get it a lot in team games. The idea is that you drones will beat the lings with minimal losses if you are allowed to drone drill him. So you want to disturb your mining as little as possible while threatening a drone drill.
At my level, that means boxing all my drones and click them to a mineral at the far side. If the lings follow, I'll drone drill him, and chances are that I'll kill all the lings with at most a couple lost drones, and I'm at a huge advantage. Otherwise, if he backs off, I'll lose almost all my mining time, but get to keep my drones.
I've seen pros pull just the 5-6 drones closest to the lings to the other side, which apparently is enough for the other pro to back of most of the times, and you get to keep mining a bit.
If you don't feel comfortable winning the drill-battle (for example 2 zergs rushing you in team games), you can either try to hide all drones between three minerals, and attack from there, or group up all drones (right click a mineral) and transfer them to the natural. Both methods minimises the surface area for the lings to attack the drones, and you won't lose too many. You're not getting any income like that, so it is mainly a "die slowly" as day 9 would say, but at least you save the drones to fight alongside the first lings/queens coming out.
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On January 24 2016 22:40 Maxie wrote:
When opening with a hatch first in ZvZ, how do you deal with the first lings that can arrive in your base before you have any defense up? If I open with a 17 hatch 17 pool 16 gas, and my opponent does a 13/12 then depending on the map and positions there can be a 7-16 second gap where 6 lings are in my main and I have nothing but drones. Simply A-moving the drones hasn't been working out for me.
Most players will go after your nat until banes arrive. 7-16 seconds of no lings/queen seems longer than I've ever experienced. Is your build order precise? I think on most maps you sacrifice your nat. Poke if you can but get a spine in your mineral line and drop a baneling nest (forfeit speed). If you defend with minimal drone loss you retake your nat at roughly the same time he does and you are ahead. Also make sure your spawning pool and bane nest are place at your gas so you create a good wall.
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They don't always go for the natural. I've noticed before that they reached my base before I had anything, I jumped into a few custom games and checked when a 13/12 arrives in the main on different maps/positions (around 1:55-2:05 on most maps) and compared it to when I get my first lings out with a 17/17 (overlord at 13/14), which is at ~2:12-2:15. My spawning pool goes down at 1:10, I doubt it can go down any quicker.
I guess it's just a matter of getting a decent surround with my drones if they do end up going for my mineral line that early.
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how am i supposed to defend against ranged liberators on some of these maps? i cant figure it out, seems like ravager ability doesnt reach all these little spots and then there are suddenly like 3-4 patches i cant mine off of until i have a spire?
or am i just ridiculously bad against terran, cus that is highly possible with my 40% winrate
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On January 25 2016 04:31 Aocowns wrote:
how am i supposed to defend against ranged liberators on some of these maps? i cant figure it out, seems like ravager ability doesnt reach all these little spots and then there are suddenly like 3-4 patches i cant mine off of until i have a spire?
or am i just ridiculously bad against terran, cus that is highly possible with my 40% winrate
On those type of maps I am seeing lots of zergs going faster 2 base Muta to counter it. It's the only way to counter it since Spores/ravagers can't reach some of those spots.
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Okay, retard level questions, when do I get my overlords. provided no funny business. I try and get 4 queens out. before a 3rd expo. I don't extractor trick, should I be, whats best?
First ovie at 13, then I get one at 20 (although my second hatch pops shortly afterwards). When second hatch pops, so I'm at XX/36 I try and get one at 28, Then I try for 38/44. depending on third (still not in a habit of taking one quick enough). Has someone scienced/math'd it all yet?
Also, when should I be getting a third, around what time? assuming I've delt with the harrass.
Also when do I send in my overlord scouts to die? I try and get one behind the main and one by the nat/pocket. I send one into the main to probably to die and scout tech, but not sure what time to do this. Then I once I have a lair, I get a Oveerseer and fly in and drop a changling to see again.
Do timings still exist, sorry for the nub-arse questions.
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On January 26 2016 13:52 Learnbrah wrote:
Okay, retard level questions, when do I get my overlords. provided no funny business. I try and get 4 queens out. before a 3rd expo. I don't extractor trick, should I be, whats best?
First ovie at 13, then I get one at 20 (although my second hatch pops shortly afterwards). When second hatch pops, so I'm at XX/36 I try and get one at 28, Then I try for 38/44. depending on third (still not in a habit of taking one quick enough). Has someone scienced/math'd it all yet?
Also, when should I be getting a third, around what time? assuming I've delt with the harrass.
Also when do I send in my overlord scouts to die? I try and get one behind the main and one by the nat/pocket. I send one into the main to probably to die and scout tech, but not sure what time to do this. Then I once I have a lair, I get a Oveerseer and fly in and drop a changling to see again.
Do timings still exist, sorry for the nub-arse questions.
So this is all based on match ups. Below is what I do personally:
13 overlord
18 hatch
18 gas
18 pool
20 overlord
@100 gas = pull drones
Metabolic boost + 2 queens
32 get 3rd
drone drone drone
Add in extra 2 queens at around 4:00
That's what I do zvt and zvp if I don't 3 hatch before pool.
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Hey guys I will make this very simple. I'm new to LOTV. I played Starcraft back in its earlier conception, so I've been out for a while. I'm back and decided to switch from Protos to Zerg. I've always had an interest in Zerg just never ran with it. The game has completely changed from when I first played it. What's are some good tips any Zerg player can give me not just mechanics for the race but the game in general! What things should I be focussing on as a SC2 Player! Give me the the 10 commandments of LOTV!
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On January 26 2016 14:40 Blbrown2 wrote:
Hey guys I will make this very simple. I'm new to LOTV. I played Starcraft back in its earlier conception, so I've been out for a while. I'm back and decided to switch from Protos to Zerg. I've always had an interest in Zerg just never ran with it. The game has completely changed from when I first played it. What's are some good tips any Zerg player can give me not just mechanics for the race but the game in general! What things should I be focussing on as a SC2 Player! Give me the the 10 commandments of LOTV!
1) Never miss inject
2) Zerg needs high apm throughout game
3) Always have 1 expansion more than enemy, except when you timing push the enemy
4) Don't forget upgrades, zerg speed, roach speed, infestor energy upgrades
5) Don't forget to tech to hive units
6) rebuilds Drones after you used them for making buildings
8) In lategame it is important to have army with different units
9) Scout with overlords, but you need to build 2-3 new ones after you sacrifice them
10) Have Jaedong shrine at home.
11) Haha I skipped 7 u noticed? 
12) Spore crawler are very important in ZvT and ZvP because banshee, oracle, phoenix, dt and widow mines.
13) good management is very important to zerg. All at same time larvae inject, creep spread, saturation etc. Very hard training.
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On January 26 2016 14:40 Blbrown2 wrote:
Hey guys I will make this very simple. I'm new to LOTV. I played Starcraft back in its earlier conception, so I've been out for a while. I'm back and decided to switch from Protos to Zerg. I've always had an interest in Zerg just never ran with it. The game has completely changed from when I first played it. What's are some good tips any Zerg player can give me not just mechanics for the race but the game in general! What things should I be focussing on as a SC2 Player! Give me the the 10 commandments of LOTV!
here's mine:
1. Thou shall never miss an inject.
2. Thou shall never become supply blocked.
3. Thou shall hotkey your units while they are still eggs into separate control groups, for never should the muta reside with the ling.
4. Thou shall make at least one dedicated creep queen and cover the land with it's flesh.
5. Thou should assign camera keys and use them to move from hatch to hatch, for the sight of the overmind leaps and does not drag.
6. Thou shall make drones until you reach 74 ( three bases with 16/16 and 6 on gas and one base with 8 on minerals )
7. Thou shall scout your opponent at 3:15 and 5:15 and know of their designs.
8. When faced with those not of the swarm thou should keep one more base then them at all time.
9. The swarm embraces all, spread your arms wide before a fight and envelop your foes.
10. Yearn not for low-tech ways of the unswarmed, let your mind elevate to the learning of hive.
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On January 26 2016 14:40 Blbrown2 wrote:
Hey guys I will make this very simple. I'm new to LOTV. I played Starcraft back in its earlier conception, so I've been out for a while. I'm back and decided to switch from Protos to Zerg. I've always had an interest in Zerg just never ran with it. The game has completely changed from when I first played it. What's are some good tips any Zerg player can give me not just mechanics for the race but the game in general! What things should I be focussing on as a SC2 Player! Give me the the 10 commandments of LOTV!
I'm sure you will get much better answers from others who have been at this for a long time, but since I recently started Zerg multiplayer I can give you an idea of what has been running through my head to grasp everything. 
I first finished all the campaigns and for me this gave me a decent base understanding of the 3 races. Although different from multiplayer, it does give you a solid "starting point" to understand race mechanics and unit composition, including the tech trees. Even though we choose to play Zerg, understanding the rest does help when going up against them!
That being said, multiplayer is quite different from single player so here are my "leanings" thus far:
The rate at which information needs to be processed is quite astonishing, you have to do certain things at a sub-conscious level in order to "do everything". But I assume you know this from SC1 so it shouldn't be anything new .
To help myself, mechanics-wise for Zerg, I drafted a "mental checklist" to ingrain a few basic habits. (I basically got everything from other players and forums so not claiming to have thought it all up by myself!). Coming off SC1 some of this will not make sense so you need to familiarise yourself with what it is ):
1. Do a larva inject cycle. You have to get this right to ensure you have enough larva to pump out units
2. Produce overlords equal to the number of hatcheries injected. This is the "idiot version" of not getting supply blocked
3. Check your drone saturation - if needed build drones
4. Spread creep. Creep = a speed boost for your units and map vision so you want to extend it towards the enemy base
5. Scout the enemy bases (are they building economy, units or teching?)
6. Check the minimap & other places of interest (incoming attacks? Expanding?)
7. Based on scouted info, make drones or units
8. Move army / forward Zergling squad
Having the above as a "checklist" helps me ensure I think of everything.
Learn a few build orders. Knowing when to build what helps a great deal
Other General SC things I can think of is to ensure your hotkeys are set up correctly to help your speed and effectiveness. My hotkeys (here you will see various other setups depending on the player):
Tilde. Scout or foward Zergling squad (I remapped group 10 to Tilde)
1. Melee Units (Zergling, Ultras)
2. Ranged Units (Roaches, Hydras)
3. Flyers (Muta / Brood lords) or casters (Vipers)
4. All Hatcheries
5. All queens for injects
6. Creep queens
7. All upgrade buildings
Let me copy paste some of my other notes as well
Macro:
• Always be one expansion ahead of opponent.
• Always replace drones when you build buildings.
Engagement:
• Rebuild your army & larva inject at the start of an engagement, this way reinforcements arrive at a good time
• If not defending, poke, maybe you find something worth killing
• Never attack blindly up a ramp. Ramps are dangerous
• Engage on creep if possible
• Spread out and engage - try to approach from many sides
• Try to go around. Around = off guard = damage dealt
• Recognise when to retreat! No need to A-move into a wall of death AND watch it unfold
• Try not to retreat back to your natural, they might follow you straight into your base
• Always keep a Zergling strike force ready to counter-attack when being attacked / be irritating
Watching YouTube tutorials helped me a great deal - look at videos published by day9 (specifically his Newbie Tuesday stuff), ApolloSC2 (Specifically his Zerg Tutorials Revamped), PiG and Lowko. And of course the info on this site
Any other comments or suggestions on even my own understanding will be great, I might be off the chosen path myself
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Thanks guys for all your help much appreciated haha! What are some general good builds I should be learning as a new Zerg player, and with those builds what should be the focus in game.
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On January 27 2016 02:20 Blbrown2 wrote:
Thanks guys for all your help much appreciated haha! What are some general good builds I should be learning as a new Zerg player, and with those builds what should be the focus in game.
scroll back a little bit. a few pages ago I wrote something for someone who had same question. it is useful I hope
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Hahs thanks I will A_needle_ jog what's your battle rag will run a few once I get better
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What does better against stalkers in ZvP? Hydralisks or roaches. What's also a good way to defend against Protos air
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On January 26 2016 18:15 IcemanAsi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 14:40 Blbrown2 wrote:
Hey guys I will make this very simple. I'm new to LOTV. I played Starcraft back in its earlier conception, so I've been out for a while. I'm back and decided to switch from Protos to Zerg. I've always had an interest in Zerg just never ran with it. The game has completely changed from when I first played it. What's are some good tips any Zerg player can give me not just mechanics for the race but the game in general! What things should I be focussing on as a SC2 Player! Give me the the 10 commandments of LOTV! here's mine: 1. Thou shall never miss an inject. 2. Thou shall never become supply blocked. 3. Thou shall hotkey your units while they are still eggs into separate control groups, for never should the muta reside with the ling. 4. Thou shall make at least one dedicated creep queen and cover the land with it's flesh. 5. Thou should assign camera keys and use them to move from hatch to hatch, for the sight of the overmind leaps and does not drag. 6. Thou shall make drones until you reach 74 ( three bases with 16/16 and 6 on gas and one base with 8 on minerals ) 7. Thou shall scout your opponent at 3:15 and 5:15 and know of their designs. 8. When faced with those not of the swarm thou should keep one more base then them at all time. 9. The swarm embraces all, spread your arms wide before a fight and envelop your foes. 10. Yearn not for low-tech ways of the unswarmed, let your mind elevate to the learning of hive.
Awesome! "For the sight of the overmind leaps and does not drag"! Maybe that way I'll remember
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On January 27 2016 08:14 Blbrown2 wrote:
What does better against stalkers in ZvP? Hydralisks or roaches. What's also a good way to defend against Protos air
Hydras do more damage to stalker, but roaches are good too because lots of HP
Depending on what protoss air.
Mutas are good against void rays
corruptor are good against the rest
viper are good against mass phoenix
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On January 27 2016 08:14 Blbrown2 wrote:
What does better against stalkers in ZvP? Hydralisks or roaches. What's also a good way to defend against Protos air
Ling hydra will do much better against stalkers, but will be weak to the AoE tech follow up ( Storms/Disruptor/Colosus )
So if you're against a heavy stalker player you want ling/hydra into lurkers to defend the tech to hive. Then either ultras for a brute force solution ( better against storm) or vipers with Abduct for a more a finesse approach ( better against disruptor ) .
Against Protoss air you obviously need spores against the initial oracle harass as well as additional queens.
From there it's basically countering with air units of your own, mostly corruptors, while teching to hive for vipers and counter attacking with lings to keep their economy in check. Use your extra queens to heal your corruptors and get a good Parasitic Bomb in and you should be fine. ling dropping their main is amazing here. alternatively you can go for a nydus timing play and do a timing attack with mass queen into their base, but that's a risky play in my eyes. I wouldn't recommend going for hydras, they don't trade anywhere near to well enough once the protoss air force gets serious.
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Hi all.
I would like to know when is the proper moment to take a look at the opponent natural's gases. Since timings are pretty different now... I don't know what to expect and what it means. I would like to know in the 2 non-mirror matches. Thanks in advance.
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ll try to make it clear by comparison... (for Bibrown2)
for terran, you build buildings at a certain time then you want each building to operate at maximum efficiency for an efficient build. you build SCVs out of your CC and you build marines out of your rax, and you cant build SCVs out of your rax.
consequently, you accumulate different stuff at the same time in an efficient build.
with zerg, every larva you morph becomes one thing only. every drone you build is not an attacking unit, and every attacking unit is not a drone, because they are all built out of the same structure using the same resources (larva, mins).
Bibrown
you know all of this already, and you might even be pissed that I said it.
but the consequence of this is what i'm after...
the consequence is that scouting is really really important.
for masters, you need to know pretty cold all the popular builds and transitions for all 3 races, and you need to be able to identify them using small amounts of information, e.g. when a protoss takes the gasses on their nat.
if you can do that, you can build drones and units in the right order. then you win.
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EPT
