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On December 02 2015 12:26 DarKcS wrote:
3 roach rush is back bois...all hail the meta.
Actually, on that note:
As a noob team-player, is there a 7-roach-rush version that turns (some of) the roaches into ravagers? :D I guess it'd be similar to the normal 7RR, but with a quick second gas or something somewhere.
Imagine that together with a 14 pool speed or something.
Trying to wall off the lings with zealots? Ravagers says no!
Trying to repair the supply in the wall? Ravagers says no!
Managed to get a force field on the ramp? Guess what?? RAVAGER SAYS NO!! > : (
I guess reapers, hellions and adepts should be able to hold it off decently though... Maybe. 
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On December 02 2015 15:13 Cascade wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2015 12:26 DarKcS wrote:
3 roach rush is back bois...all hail the meta. Actually, on that note: As a noob team-player, is there a 7-roach-rush version that turns (some of) the roaches into ravagers? :D I guess it'd be similar to the normal 7RR, but with a quick second gas or something somewhere. Imagine that together with a 14 pool speed or something. Trying to wall off the lings with zealots? Ravagers says no! Trying to repair the supply in the wall? Ravagers says no! Managed to get a force field on the ramp? Guess what?? RAVAGER SAYS NO!! > : ( I guess reapers, hellions and adepts should be able to hold it off decently though... Maybe.
i suppose it's possible you could add gas immediately after building the first round of roaches to afford a couple of ravagers, but i think it would be extremely allin because you'd be going below full mineral saturation to afford that second gas. might be strong though
update edit: i just tried this today against a terran who blindly opened tank (no scout of my build) and it went really horribly, for what it's worth, lol
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How does this work if T gets a fast tank out ? How soon can they get the tank out ?
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On December 02 2015 21:09 poelinca443 wrote:
How does this work if T gets a fast tank out ? How soon can they get the tank out ?
A standard tank comes out just after 4 minutes, I haven't got any idea about if they were to really rush it, but if that is the case, they can't take their natural without Medivac support (bile shots can kill the tank as its seiging up) and as long as you take care scouting what they have and make sure they aren't counterattacking you with a drop or banshees, u can drone up 2 based safely.
Against a tank drop the best thing to do is drone up safely and make 2 extra queens, and straight after make a lair. Getting mutas against early star port is always a good option, so make sure your poke at the front is accounting for all the terrans options. Ie. If you don't see anything, theyre hiding something, most likely banshees, so make queens if you don't see factory tech.
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On December 02 2015 14:55 Beelzebub1 wrote:
What do you feel like is the best transition after this? From my experience staying on Roaches against Terran hasn't been a great idea since WOL and I'm sure bio mows them down just as good as before.
Should you go for like a Roach/Hydra/Viper timing? Or immediately go to ling/bling/muta since they will start preparing tanks and marauders once they see you commit to the Roach tech?
Thanks for the replay, totally fucking awesome.
If you want to go down the macro route and not follow up with the Ling bane attack that i do, u can take a third base and make loads of drones. I would recommend a roach ravager composition as it is very popular in zvt at the moment, and maybe you could do this after quick mutas to stay safe against star port play (banshees, tank drops, liberator Harrass) and from that go into roach ravager. If you watch pro games you can see how successful that composition is, I HOPE THAT HELPS
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On December 02 2015 15:11 FabledIntegral wrote:
How does this fare if the Terran responds by opening 1/1/1 and tank/medivac drops? I imagine that would be quite strong against this, but it's speculation, not sure if you've encountered it.
Yes, this would be quite a tricky to navigate, but you should still have a bit of time to drone a bit and hopefully get up to mutas as quick as possible. Along with this try to get extra queens and hold them contained within their main base for as long as possible, and hopefully just come out in the economic advantage.
As soon as they produce a Medivac and a tank to deal with your ravagers, try to get them back to your base as soon as possible and make queens and some lings.
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This is a nice strat that allowed z for the first time can apply pressure on terran in early game. However, how do you use your roach/ravagers conbo vs terran, since I still feel that Bio can still kill roaches ravagers without much difficulty.
I'm high master btw, so I wanna discuss about high level games. Thanks.
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On December 05 2015 14:05 signofwish wrote:
This is a nice strat that allowed z for the first time can apply pressure on terran in early game. However, how do you use your roach/ravagers conbo vs terran, since I still feel that Bio can still kill roaches ravagers without much difficulty.
I'm high master btw, so I wanna discuss about high level games. Thanks.
I dont really like going roach ravager out of this build, I tend to go ling bane muta as terrans usually respond with non anti-air units to deal with the ravagers, IE banshees medivacs and tanks. Whenever the aggression is over I tend to go into quick mutas and a third, so thats what I do.
As for the zergs that go roach ravager, its very strong at the moment. The ravagers are very good at dealing with bio as their aa shreds marines very quickly, and the roaches are able to tank a lot more early. The addition of the ravagers adds that extra bit to the composition that it needs to be viable, as you hold a lot of supply of units and can counter things like seige tanks which used to destroy the composition. Watch jimrising on twitch, he has a very high success rate with roach ravager in zvt. The only thing that is hard to deal with in this comp is drops, but again, some players go mutas and THEN transition into the roach ravagers, so at least you have some way to deal with drops. Otherwise, static defense and some left behind units are imperative. I hope this helps, if not, let me know! Thanks
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I have success with bane bust against T (in Silver tough).
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Thanks for the BO. Been tired of doing speedling opening.
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I got a version that gets 4 ravagers out but, ignores ling speed revolving around 16 pool and hits a few seconds later. I like this idea though. It taught me a bit more about the match up.
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I worked a version out that seems to be a bit faster :
13 overlord
17 extractor
16 pool
19 hatch
18 roach warren
17 queen
19 gas
18 overlord
then 3 roaches into ravagers. The drones of the second gas should be pulled out and metabolic boost can be researched soon after.
I'm only gold so this should be tested by better players than me.
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On December 09 2015 02:45 Sulice wrote:
I worked a version out that seems to be a bit faster :
13 overlord
17 extractor
16 pool
19 hatch
18 roach warren
17 queen
19 gas
18 overlord
then 3 roaches into ravagers. The drones of the second gas should be pulled out and metabolic boost can be researched soon after.
I'm only gold so this should be tested by better players than me.
So, I tried out all three of our builds and I found that out of the three yours hits a little bit sooner but, is way more all in. You don't set yourself up to well to macro behind it with your econ on the graphs being a little under Luppa's and mine.
Im just low/mid masters but, I think your build is a decent all-in... Hard to say haven tried on ladder but, you def hit sooner with less of an econ.
I also did your build 4 different ways to see where the econ can be maxed.What gave the weakest econ was a 14/14 OL Double extractor trick. The econ dipped off towards the end of some reason but, was identical to 13/14 OL
A second gas subtracts mineral income [Your build has 3 drones less on minerals.]
Leaving you with 13/16 [520 Minerals Pr/Min] 2/3 [Twice]
I wasn't starved for gas when the attack hit; it hits sooner and It's very all-in. This would be why.
Additionally it's nice because you hit before the first tank can come out of a 1/1/1
The way I did it was that after the first 100 gas I would take a drone out of the existing gas and do 2 on each.
After the first 3 roaches was non-stop ling production.
Test games ended between 3:57 to 4:09
http://imgur.com/JeL6F82 [Sorry for the poor organization.]
Luppa's build so far seems superior. @ 90 sec he has the higher mineral income but, levels off later.
I think economically our builds are similar but Luppa's is superior because he has the additional tech.
Any additional input is welcome.
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On December 09 2015 02:45 PretentiousScreenNam wrote:
13OL
Drones
16 Pool
18 Hatch
17/16 Gas [ASAP]
17 Drone
19 Queen
19 Roach Warren
18OL
20 Drone
3 Roaches [ Morph into Rav as you go.]
I think economically our builds are similar but Luppa's is superior because he has the additional tech.
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I don't think this build is any good, because the terran can just make widows mines in time and all your ravagers are dead.
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On December 10 2015 10:06 terranfun wrote:
I don't think this build is any good, because the terran can just make widows mines in time and all your ravagers are dead.
Ravagers counter mines. Infact youll put yourself further behind if you make mines instead of a tank or banshee.
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Did you read his guide? He makes 3 Ravagers and arrives at terran base at 3.20-3.30. I have 3 mines already by then, and he does not know where the mines are. The 3 ravagers he insists are for pressure, and the moment you walk anywhere near the terran base, all 3 ravagers are dead, in fact the 3 ravagers die in the middle of the map to my 3 widow mines.
Ravagers can't counter what they can't see. Period.
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On December 11 2015 07:07 terranfun wrote:
Did you read his guide? He makes 3 Ravagers and arrives at terran base at 3.20-3.30. I have 3 mines already by then, and he does not know where the mines are. The 3 ravagers he insists are for pressure, and the moment you walk anywhere near the terran base, all 3 ravagers are dead, in fact the 3 ravagers die in the middle of the map to my 3 widow mines.
Ravagers can't counter what they can't see. Period.
But you can see the Mines even when burrowed... and Ravagers can stand near them but out of range, and use 2-3 Corrosive Biles to snipe them, if you unburrow Mines and try to run with them I can kill them with auto-attacks.
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On December 11 2015 07:07 terranfun wrote:
Did you read his guide? He makes 3 Ravagers and arrives at terran base at 3.20-3.30. I have 3 mines already by then, and he does not know where the mines are. The 3 ravagers he insists are for pressure, and the moment you walk anywhere near the terran base, all 3 ravagers are dead, in fact the 3 ravagers die in the middle of the map to my 3 widow mines.
Ravagers can't counter what they can't see. Period.
I dont think u should focus to analyze the BO this way. Normaly, no T making 3 mines at the begining of the game, what 3 mines for? And like he said, Rav can see the mine before they start fire...
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On December 01 2015 10:16 Luppa wrote:
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Thanks for your build man, btw, do u have any replay or VOD for Helion Opening style? Because with this case, banshee will come out very shortly and our 3Rav can do nothing, maybe just 1 supplyDeport down. I tried this couple time with M and GM kr.
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EPT
