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I often find myself playing on the North American server playing against the most blatant hackers, I'm talking guys who you will do a build against, say some kind of all in, they won't scout, and they'll build like 30 spines, 25 roaches, and rally all drones from their third and back to their natural. Thing is, you can't do anything about it. No matter how many reports you get on the guy, it will take 6+ months to ban the person, sometimes even longer, sometimes even never. I mean shit, it took like an entire 8 or 9 months to ban a #1 GM guy on the most populated server despite the WHOLE SERVER knowing he's a hacker.
I'm curious as to what to do against these people because I find it impossible to win. I can't use all-ins which removes a part of Protoss gameplay, if I try to macro, they do the perfect unit counters, perfect flanks, perfect strategic decisions, perfect positioning, etc. I can't intercept drops anymore, the list goes on. The thing is, most people play solely for attainment of rank, and you end up having a huge percentage of the server playing with hacks. It comes with close to no consequence, and leads to an INCREDIBLE advantage. I'm talking a high plat or low diamond guy will start beating GMs because of it, it's just so fucking mindnumbingly hard to beat these guys and there are plenty of them. Of my 30 games of ladder I played today, roughly 13 were hackers. I of course lost those 13, and also lost a few games here or there against normal players, and ended the day with around 22 losses, 8 wins.
What do I do? I can't play in a tournament environment, and I can't really play on other servers because the same shit happens (+ latency, I'm in Canada). I feel like I should just quit the game because it's no fun anymore and I have to try way too hard and play absolutely perfectly to beat someone ranked lower than me, let alone someone at my level.
Now I'm not saying the majority of players on NA are hackers, but a good portion of them are. A pretty darn good portion, according to my games today, and these aren't unjustified claims-- I'm talking people who don't scout at all the whole game, and then decide to "perfectly position their army" to intercept your coming attack with a huge positioning advantage and all, people who make the whole concept of drops impossible because they have units in place, people who make it impossible to all-in, people who have the perfect unit counters against me. It's painful to play against these people and utterly ridiculous. Is there any way to play against these people that I can revert back to normal skill/ranking? I mean shit, even in GM, half the barcodes you see are probably hackers. Difficult to distinguish between them anyways.
How are people dealing with these issues? It's way too difficult.
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Just curious, what level do you play at? In diamond (low- to mid- 'ish) I don't feel like I play against any hackers, and I do check replays afterwards quite often to see if there was any evidence.
I was watching a player once who played against a guy who was clearly hacking (mid- to mid-high diamond), but that was like 1 in 30 games or something (and the guy lost anyway). My impression is that this is more of a problem in high diamond/masters/GM.
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I can beat them simply by having better mechanics. Play a safe macro build and hit them with solid timings (ex. scv pull, bio mine 2-2 timing, etc). I am terran, it may be more difficult for the other races.
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I personally like to fake an all in. and just take drone up my third. make them over react. then do it again, and then max out and kill them.
It gets tough however, when they actually have good mechanics too, But there is far less of them
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On December 26 2014 14:32 intense555 wrote:
I can beat them simply by having better mechanics. Play a safe macro build and hit them with solid timings (ex. scv pull, bio mine 2-2 timing, etc). I am terran, it may be more difficult for the other races.
Isn't it pretty difficult to win against a hacker in a TvT though? TvZ/TvP I can see as working if you play a macro-focused style where you just take good fights without relying on drops, but in TvT, you would be countered easily at every moment and would end up very behind in the early game, even against a player of lesser skill, and even if you somehow came into the midgame equally, you could never out position their army.
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On December 26 2014 12:33 Centerfold wrote:
I'm curious as to what to do against these people because I find it impossible to win. I can't use all-ins which removes a part of Protoss gameplay, if I try to macro, they do the perfect unit counters, perfect flanks, perfect strategic decisions, perfect positioning, etc. I can't intercept drops anymore, the list goes on.
No, no they don't. They will not do perfect unit counters, definitely won't do perfect flanks or make perfect strategic decisions nor perfect positioning. This is why they can't beat top players.
Just consider it a challenge for you to play better.
Anyways the answer is play a macro game. Play solid. Solid play beats hackers.
I am not saying hacking doesn't give you a huge advantage in this game, because it does. But you aren't gonna see a hacker beating scarlett or bunny if they actually care about winning the game.
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On December 26 2014 16:04 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2014 12:33 Centerfold wrote:
I'm curious as to what to do against these people because I find it impossible to win. I can't use all-ins which removes a part of Protoss gameplay, if I try to macro, they do the perfect unit counters, perfect flanks, perfect strategic decisions, perfect positioning, etc. I can't intercept drops anymore, the list goes on. No, no they don't. They will not do perfect unit counters, definitely won't do perfect flanks or make perfect strategic decisions nor perfect positioning. This is why they can't beat top players. Just consider it a challenge for you to play better. Anyways the answer is play a macro game. Play solid. Solid play beats hackers. I am not saying hacking doesn't give you a huge advantage in this game, because it does. But you aren't gonna see a hacker beating scarlett or bunny if they actually care about winning the game.
+1 to this.
In lower levels, hackers usually use the hacking to know where their opponents are spawning so that they can cheese them or maybe counter a specific build. But as travis said, they won't counter perfectly, and macro games should show who the better player is because maphacking doesn't matter that much in longer games because engagements matter more than anything else (not saying that harrassment doesn't matter, but a hacker sometimes doesn't even defend well against these).
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well, you have to realize how most of those hackers in GM are actually diamond level max, and then you'll see just a standard macro build is a hardcounter to them
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You encourage maphacking by playing against them. So leave at the beginning of the game if you know they are.
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Playing against hackers is a good way to test how legitimately you play if you aren't able to judge that. Tricky part is if you dont know whether your opponent hacks or not; but at the end of the day there aren't anyone hacking at offline tournaments so its not an issue.
Edit: silly typo
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Whenever I play a hacker I just try to play a solid, defensive macro game with the game plan of overwhelming them in the late mid game or late game. There is a reason why they're just on whatever level you yourself are even with the hacks, so they're going to suck a lot. Set up multiple drops and complicated army maneuvers and they're going to crumble. Then start mocking them for sucking so they get anxious and play even worse (because a lot of hackers have a very fragile mental state). GL HF!
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Map hacker until high master should not be that big of problem. Those who hack and are still not gm, are lacking in skill or game knowledge. So they have more information than you do, but you have better mechanics or game knowledge (usually both).
There is lot of styles/builds you can do that are not winnable by just knowing.
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oh boy....when a strategy thread pops up on how to beat hackers...These guys seem to be up and coming. Maybe one of them will make it into premier this season ?
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On December 27 2014 00:18 EJK wrote:
oh boy....when a strategy thread pops up on how to beat hackers...These guys seem to be up and coming. Maybe one of them will make it into premier this season ?
New foreigner hope
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Dont waste your time with them. Immediatly leave the game. If everybody does this, their MMR will spike and they will only meet other maphackers.
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On December 26 2014 16:34 NeThZOR wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2014 16:04 travis wrote:On December 26 2014 12:33 Centerfold wrote:
I'm curious as to what to do against these people because I find it impossible to win. I can't use all-ins which removes a part of Protoss gameplay, if I try to macro, they do the perfect unit counters, perfect flanks, perfect strategic decisions, perfect positioning, etc. I can't intercept drops anymore, the list goes on. No, no they don't. They will not do perfect unit counters, definitely won't do perfect flanks or make perfect strategic decisions nor perfect positioning. This is why they can't beat top players. Just consider it a challenge for you to play better. Anyways the answer is play a macro game. Play solid. Solid play beats hackers. I am not saying hacking doesn't give you a huge advantage in this game, because it does. But you aren't gonna see a hacker beating scarlett or bunny if they actually care about winning the game. +1 to this. In lower levels, hackers usually use the hacking to know where their opponents are spawning so that they can cheese them or maybe counter a specific build. But as travis said, they won't counter perfectly, and macro games should show who the better player is because maphacking doesn't matter that much in longer games because engagements matter more than anything else (not saying that harrassment doesn't matter, but a hacker sometimes doesn't even defend well against these).
I've seen plenty of no-name barcodes who are hackers beat Scarlett, HuK, those kinda guys. I've also seen them lose, but despite me trying to play super solid, they take advantage of the fact that they can see everything. They can plan the perfect way by taking perfect flanks, perfect unit counters, etc. because they know everything you're doing beforehand.
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On December 27 2014 02:50 graNite wrote:
Dont waste your time with them. Immediatly leave the game. If everybody does this, their MMR will spike and they will only meet other maphackers.
I remember when imbatoss was pushed to rank 1 gm by people like happy who left immediately when they played against him. In the end, I suppose that helped to raise awereness about him and prompted blizzard to react more quickly. Being really high on ladder doesn't really give you anything aside from personal satisfaction (and you can't really feel satisfied if you obtain it through hacking). Obviously having such a high MMR that everygame is either your opponent leaving at the start or your opponent completely destroying you because he's 100 times better, mustn't be fun.
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On December 27 2014 02:56 Centerfold wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2014 16:34 NeThZOR wrote:On December 26 2014 16:04 travis wrote:On December 26 2014 12:33 Centerfold wrote:
I'm curious as to what to do against these people because I find it impossible to win. I can't use all-ins which removes a part of Protoss gameplay, if I try to macro, they do the perfect unit counters, perfect flanks, perfect strategic decisions, perfect positioning, etc. I can't intercept drops anymore, the list goes on. No, no they don't. They will not do perfect unit counters, definitely won't do perfect flanks or make perfect strategic decisions nor perfect positioning. This is why they can't beat top players. Just consider it a challenge for you to play better. Anyways the answer is play a macro game. Play solid. Solid play beats hackers. I am not saying hacking doesn't give you a huge advantage in this game, because it does. But you aren't gonna see a hacker beating scarlett or bunny if they actually care about winning the game. +1 to this. In lower levels, hackers usually use the hacking to know where their opponents are spawning so that they can cheese them or maybe counter a specific build. But as travis said, they won't counter perfectly, and macro games should show who the better player is because maphacking doesn't matter that much in longer games because engagements matter more than anything else (not saying that harrassment doesn't matter, but a hacker sometimes doesn't even defend well against these). I've seen plenty of no-name barcodes who are hackers beat Scarlett, HuK, those kinda guys. I've also seen them lose, but despite me trying to play super solid, they take advantage of the fact that they can see everything. They can plan the perfect way by taking perfect flanks, perfect unit counters, etc. because they know everything you're doing beforehand.
Im sorry to break it to you but they will lose games, against hackers or not. until you are high master/ gm map hacking means NOTHING, ye maby you will lose a few extra games against people who you wouldn't in the first place, but the margin that hacks are going to play are minimal
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On December 26 2014 16:34 NeThZOR wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2014 16:04 travis wrote:On December 26 2014 12:33 Centerfold wrote:
I'm curious as to what to do against these people because I find it impossible to win. I can't use all-ins which removes a part of Protoss gameplay, if I try to macro, they do the perfect unit counters, perfect flanks, perfect strategic decisions, perfect positioning, etc. I can't intercept drops anymore, the list goes on. No, no they don't. They will not do perfect unit counters, definitely won't do perfect flanks or make perfect strategic decisions nor perfect positioning. This is why they can't beat top players. Just consider it a challenge for you to play better. Anyways the answer is play a macro game. Play solid. Solid play beats hackers. I am not saying hacking doesn't give you a huge advantage in this game, because it does. But you aren't gonna see a hacker beating scarlett or bunny if they actually care about winning the game. +1 to this. In lower levels, hackers usually use the hacking to know where their opponents are spawning so that they can cheese them or maybe counter a specific build. But as travis said, they won't counter perfectly, and macro games should show who the better player is because maphacking doesn't matter that much in longer games because engagements matter more than anything else (not saying that harrassment doesn't matter, but a hacker sometimes doesn't even defend well against these).
yeah. I would not say that macro/solid play outright beats them. but it definitely gives you the best chance in this particular situation.
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EPT
