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Hi guys!
I used to play TvT late game doing some bc, vikings and ravens, but i always lose my bc. The yamato gun is to slow to shot ravens or vikings, even if i use my vikings to attack too. On Bw ppl use BC+tanks, so they can slowly push against enemy base, but i cant do this on Starcraft 2. Can you help me with some tips of TvT?
Here is my last TvT replay:
http://drop.sc/389942
I want to know whats the objectives when I counter mech with maraunders/tanks/medivacs. I try to drop everywhere, but they always put thanks on defensive and so much turrets, then i cant attack or do nothing.
Can you send me some replays or vods when this situation happens?
Thank you all for ur time. I hope I have followed all the rules to create a topic properly.
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On December 06 2014 20:56 Damien wrote:Hi guys! I used to play TvT late game doing some bc, vikings and ravens, but i always lose my bc. The yamato gun is to slow to shot ravens or vikings, even if i use my vikings to attack too. On Bw ppl use BC+tanks, so they can slowly push against enemy base, but i cant do this on Starcraft 2. Can you help me with some tips of TvT? Here is my last TvT replay: http://drop.sc/389942I want to know whats the objectives when I counter mech with maraunders/tanks/medivacs. I try to drop everywhere, but they always put thanks on defensive and so much turrets, then i cant attack or do nothing. Can you send me some replays or vods when this situation happens? Thank you all for ur time. I hope I have followed all the rules to create a topic properly.
As with Tanks or Bio, the goal is to secure more bases than your opponent, using an air advantage to zone him out and possibly construct turrets.
IMO, BCs are not as good as Vikings unless you want just a couple to push through turrets or if he still has a ground army.
In an engagement, it's all about the Seekers and PDD.
In short;
Get more Gas than your opponent
Get more Raven (energy) than your opponent
Engage favorably
Camp Starports/kill bases/finish the game.
Remember to try to use your air advantage to push early, he might just crumble there.
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Watched your replay.
Pros games to watch with bio against mech :
- INnoVation vs Cure in GSL Season 3 ro4
- Skyhigh vs FLash in Hot6ix cup ro16
- MMA vs Yoda in WCS EU finals (There even is a Day[9] daily about this one)
- the 2 first games of INno vs Taeja in Blizzcon (before INno got tilted by all the technical issues...)
- I think MMA vs Bomber in Blizzcon had a good bio vs mech too on deadwing (MMA being the bio player)
Your replay and what I can say about it :
The old "bio guy has mobilty and have to multi front the mech guy and drop everywhere" thing is actually very map dependent.
On Ohana for instance, it's kinda easy to turtle on 3 base for the mech player, and even if your first drop was not that bad, what you did after (big attacks on his third) was not cost efficient. YOu lost tons of ressurces and achieved practically nothing.
As a result, he takes his 3rd before you, he takes his 4th before you, he gets his air units switch before you and wins the game. What you said in the end was true - he did almost nothing but just sit and wait for you to crash on his defenses - but realisticly if he had been more active he would have won too, just 20 minutes earlier.
So what you can do?
As a bio player, esp on Ohana, you have another weapon : the contain.
For this you use tanks marauders (only a few medivac) and viking and turrets cause the battle for air will be most important, not only for vision but also because the mech players will use hellbat drops to try to break your tank line. It is possible to do so because early mid game the bio player has an army advantage in open fights (when you hit stim basically), this advantage is not good enough to end the game, but can allow you to set a line of tanks outside is natural/third area (it's very map dependent, obviously)
You can see this in Cure vs INnoVation, Cure used that game plan during the whole series.
While this contain occurs, you take care of your economy and tech, you get this 4th much quicker and 5 th not so long after. Of course you can try drops and harass, but the main goal is to not loose units for no reason and keep him contained as long as possible.
If you can keep him contained on 3 base long enough you'll have plenty of time and money to transition to air. Viking and raven are the dream compo, but banshee can be cool too cause you can get them faster and they kill tanks fast. BC are actually just yamamoto launchers, you just have a few of them, but the core of the army remains viking/ravens. I would recommend them only if you see thors actually.(I don't like BC much, maybe I'm biased on this point?)
A last option is to skip the siege/contain phase as MMA did in WCS eu finals and go directly to full air, but it's really map dependent. check the Day[9] daily to see how it happens and why it works...
Hope this helps...
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yeah as bio vs mech dont get too attack happy or feel pressure to attack vs a full turtling mech player, you are really only forced to attach a mech player who goes for very quick 3rd or 4th. but a 3rd after 3 fac you can't really punish easily. unless you were ahead from opening.
you just need to get an econ advantage and use that to switch to air. take a third after rax 2+3, then add rax, and if hes being passive start a fourth after your third is landed (you should have started rax 4+5 in this time, and add 2nd ebay + armory soon).
you need to counter attack vs a mech player that wants to attack you early on. but if you are going to contain i think you should also threaten the drops, force him to build turrets and delay his ability to 3 base allin or take a fourth. by the time he can take a fourth you should have 3-4 SP's other than your initial one up and 10 gasses.
i wouldn't get BC at all unless he is late to transition to air, thor-heavy, or its a looong stalemate and you both have good raven micro
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Ty guys for the help.
SC2Toastie
So, on easy third defense maps, should I tech to mech instead bio? So I can construct more tanks than my oponnent and use it to deny his third and forth bases?
If I use only ravens/vikings/tanks + some support like bio or hellbats, so how can I push? Should I slowly move my tanks against him? Even if they dont have air units, they can scan. It makes the push almost impossible. I noticed that I delay too much to take gas.
Ty you for your help and time, I´ll try to improve the points that you mentioned.
Gwavajuice
I´ll consider more about the map, and on those that is easy to take and protect third, I´ll use mech of ir I still use bio, I´ll use all my forces to deny his third. On the other hand, I´ll try to expand early.
I´ll try to block his way to thir putting some turrets and thanks around it. I´ll split some marines of another unit to give me more vision before vikings arrive. So, if I use bio, I can try to flank using stimmed units.
I´ll watch all these replays i´ve mantioned. Ty for your help and time.
nath
Your right! Every game that I tried to attack him everywhere and faster that I could, he only defend and turtle until he could get units enough to counter attack with just one push. I´ll consider to protect more bases with more thanks, maybe using "one factory by command". On next games I´ll try to attack only his defenseless points, so I can lost a minimum of units, causing him much trouble, like attacking the points where his tanks aren´t on siege mode.
I need to expand faster and be able to defend his drops. I´ll try to improve it too.
Ty nath for you time and help.
You guys show me a different type of game, couse I never consider economy as the main goal. I consider it just part of a gear that allow me to stay attacking.
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"You guys show me a different type of game, couse I never consider economy as the main goal. I consider it just part of a gear that allow me to stay attacking."
hahaha that is what i love to hear from a TERRAN! but you can still think this way (especially in bio vs mech), its just that you need more econ to keep attacking + transition to air.
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Your goal late game is to get vikings, ravens, and ghosts while maintaining a strong enough ground army that can fight your opponent's ground army.
Then it's all about how good you are with viking/raven micro vs your opponent's with anti-seeker micro and splitting any bio you have on the ground and splitting up siege tanks so they aren't clumped vs seekers.
Never build BCS unless you are way, way ahead of your opponent. Raven is your late game TvT unit. So is the siege tank.
If you like playing bio that is perfectly fine and viable unless you stay on pure bio you will autolose late game to mech or opposing bio player that builds tanks + ravens.
Pretty simple, just takes lots of experience and practice. Also get speed burrow widow mines late game if you ever lose viking/raven advantage to attempt to come back in the air fight since everyone is human and will make mistakes and you can burrow mines underneath clumped vikings (if they mess up).
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As a bio player, do I build medivacs upon scanning an intimidating Viking force? Do I get 2 factories or 3 with my barracks? Is the goal to have 3-3 bio with a focus on tanks Vikings marauders and ~4 medivacs??? These questions solely focused on early and mid game composition.
My thinking is a healthy tank count with a Thor or two with heaps of marauders and only a few medivacs. Also with lot of Vikings to contest air control while I use my bio force to cause havoc wherever I can or use a high tank count to go for a contain as mentioned above..
Is this correct? Upon discovering a mech player, is my infrastructure off 2 base 5/2/1? With 4 tech labs. And when I take a 3rd I can go up to 7/2/2 for quad medivac or Viking production? Thoughts an suggestions please 😊
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Ty nath, Avilo.
Are you the real Avilo? I´m ur fan dude.
So, im going to have 1 factory by CC, 1 starport by CC too, 3 rax at beggining. Is it a good composition? Its hard to counter hellbats and I hate to play mech vs mech. Its completelly ridiculous.
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EPT
