• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 13:24
CEST 19:24
KST 02:24
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting3[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent6Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4)5
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 6-12): Four star herO65.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8)71Weekly Cups (Sept 29-Oct 5): MaxPax triples up3PartinG joins SteamerZone, returns to SC2 competition325.0.15 Balance Patch Notes (Live version)119
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8) The New Patch Killed Mech! TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting Weekly Cups (Oct 6-12): Four star herO PartinG joins SteamerZone, returns to SC2 competition
Tourneys
Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Tenacious Turtle Tussle WardiTV Mondays SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 19 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment Mutation # 493 Quick Killers Mutation # 492 Get Out More
Brood War
General
BSL Season 21 BW caster Sayle BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Brood War web app to calculate unit interactions Whose hotkey signature is this?
Tourneys
[ASL20] Semifinal B [ASL20] Semifinal A [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Ro8 Day 4
Strategy
Current Meta BW - ajfirecracker Strategy & Training Siegecraft - a new perspective TvZ Theorycraft - Improving on State of the Art
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread Dawn of War IV Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640} TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Men's Fashion Thread Sex and weight loss
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Inbreeding: Why Do We Do It…
Peanutsc
From Tilt to Ragequit:The Ps…
TrAiDoS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1133 users

[G] [TvT] The Definitive Guide to the 8/8/8

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
ReMiiX
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States338 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-07 08:42:21
September 02 2014 04:52 GMT
#1
Edit: Added some 2v2 replays, more to come!

This is my second guide to totally standard macro plays as Terran. Hope you enjoy. My first guide can be found here, note that it is no longer viable... probably.

There is a guide to this already but it is not very in depth. In this guide I hope to cover the subtleties of this complex build.

Intro:

This is a pretty effective cheese for TvT especially in the plat/diamond range where people don't just make random stuff but still aren't perfectly optimal in their builds. I first found it in the HotS beta on the 3rd page of some obscure strategy post. No one really seemed to use it, but I found it to be very strong. In HotS beta I had a 100% win rate in Grandmasters with it for a period of a few weeks. I did it literally every TvT and most TvZs. It can still work in TvZ but it relies more on your opponent being terrible than you being good. It is only good in TvP if they are proxy 2 gating or proxy stargate.

It is similar in style to that weird 9/9/9 banshee build from WoL beta where you could make a starport before supply depot.

Build Order:

Pretty easy to memorize
  • 8 depot
  • 8 rax @ 150 min
  • 8 gas @ 75 min
  • 8 rax @150 min
  • all reapers (no scvs!)
  • Orbital command when you have sufficient funds (usually around 15 supply but it depends on your losses)



Proxy Types:

The build depends on you aggressively proxying your first and sometimes second rax. There are a few different situations you can find yourself in based on the map.

  • 1 proxy/1 home
  • 2 proxy/1 scv
  • 2 proxy/2 scv


1 proxy/1 home:
      Basically you will only find this on Catallena. You can double proxy on it (as you will see in a later video) but it doesn't make much of a difference, especially depending on spawns.

2 proxy/1 scv:
       This is mainly found on 2 person maps like King Sejong or Overgrowth. The reasoning behind it is that you will not have to scout to find your opponents base so you can just aggressively proxy right outside their base. This way you can just send one worker and build both barracks (as it will not effect gas timing which is the limiting factor of this build, to be explained later).

2 proxy/2 scv:
      This is used on large 3/4 person maps where you are unsure of the opponents location. The idea is that you can proxy both, gaining a slightly faster second barracks (which usually doesn't matter due to gas timings) while still scouting one base to use process of elimination (except for actual 4 person maps) to find out where your opponent is located.


Proxy Timings:

Here are the list of relative timings for your barracks building scvs based on proxy type, these are designed to have your scv reach the proxy locations right when you have 150 minerals:

1 proxy/1 home:
      Since this is basically just Catallena, send your first scv out as soon as you build your supply depot. Send your second scv to the second proxy location when your gas is finishing up.

2 proxy/1 scv:
      When your 8th scv (the one that will build the supply depot) is about half way done (+/- a little depending on map size) send your scv to your proxy location. As this is the only scv building you don't need to worry about anything else.

2 proxy/2 scv:
      As with 2 proxy/1 scv send a worker to the proxy location when your 8th scv is half way finished. Send your second worker as soon as you start gas.

Proxy Locations:

NOTE THAT NIMBUS IS NOT ON HERE AS IT IS 4 PERSON AND YOU BASICALLY HAVE TO MAPHACK TO PROXY CORRECTLY ON IT + THERE IS NO SURFACE AREA FOR REAPERS.

Legend:Colors denote spawning position, numbers denote order in which rax was placed.


Catallena:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]


Overgrowth:
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]


King Sejong Station:
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]


Deadwing:
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
[image loading]


Merry Go Round:
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]



Targeting Order:

Your reaper will hit before theirs if they are going reaper as well (your first one should be in their base at about 3:22), so you will have a window of free reign. If they go marines, snipe the first marine but make sure you are away from the barracks, the second marine will pop during this fight and your reaper will die. If they are going reapers or just didn't make a marine (lol) go for building scvs. They will usually be building a factory around when you get to their base, THIS IS YOUR PRIMARY TARGET. If you manage to delay the factory for long enough its an easy win.

If they are going reapers just camp the barracks after you deny any other buildings.

If they begin to make a bunker try to deny it but it is not really a big deal, units or factory scvs are still more important. You can always poke around a bunker to kill units.

So, in summary in order of priority:
  • Hellion
  • Marine/Reaper
  • Factory SCV
  • Other building SCVs
  • Mining SCVs

Tips:
  • One reaper can kill one marine with no micro but can not kill two even with micro
  • Build your depots away from your ramp and gas in the geyser farthest from your ramp.
  • As I mentioned earlier, if they make a marine first, you can kill it but the timing works out that the second marine should pop around when your reaper kills the first marine. Your reaper will die to this marine if you are too close to the barracks so try to engage away from it.
  • It takes 6 reapers to one shot a marine and an scv and 10 to one shot a hellion (5 will two shot it).
  • Be careful not to engage up cliffs when they are right on top of it. Try to fake out your opponent and get a good position before you attack.


Replays:

Some of these replays aren't the best, this build gets harder as you get higher in Masters and I forgot to save my old replays t_t. Some of these builds aren't optimal or are against weird openings but I think they are ok overall. I will upload more later if I can find them.

http://drop.sc/385600
http://drop.sc/385601
http://drop.sc/385602

2v2 Replays:

http://drop.sc/385795
http://drop.sc/385794

I'd like to just state that during these replays I am in platinum random 2v2 and have been rank one for weeks. My record is 70-20 at the time of posting. In the game against Hitman, everyone was masters random 2's except me. Thanks for the promotion blizz!

Here is a VoD of me losing to dSeleCt with this build at Red Bull Battle Grounds Atlanta. It was literally my first time playing Catallena and I had no idea how to do the timings. If I had sniped his hellions (both got to like 5 health) I think I could have won. Also, I would like to add that they spelled my name incorrectly in two different ways rofl.




Who am I:
I am Marco aka "ReMiiX". I am currently studying Discrete Mathematics, Computer Science, and Korean at the Georgia Institute of Technology. I am the captain of the GT StarCraft team and run most of the eSports teams on campus. I have been masters since season 2 of WoL, reaching high masters multiple times as both Terran and Random and was GM in HotS beta and on SEA (lol).

My twitch is http://www.twitch.tv/aremiix.
My twitter is https://twitter.com/ReMiiX
Georgia Tech eSports Twitter is https://twitter.com/GaTecheSports


Closing Thoughts:
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]


Thanks for reading!
GaTech CSL fighting!
FXOTheoRy
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States519 Posts
September 02 2014 04:56 GMT
#2
Very awesome guide! Was a big fan of the "4Rax SCV All In TvP" guide. Can't wait for the next one !
oyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoy
SkaPunk
Profile Joined October 2010
United States471 Posts
September 02 2014 05:02 GMT
#3
I just... I hate you so much marco ♥
Team Fallacy
HeyImFinn
Profile Joined September 2011
United States250 Posts
September 02 2014 06:18 GMT
#4
Finally someone makes a legit guide to this build!

By the way (just some nitpicking), it's Catallena, not Catalina. I know a lot of casters make that mistake too.
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)STYLE START SBENU( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
ReMiiX
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States338 Posts
September 03 2014 21:21 GMT
#5
On September 02 2014 15:18 HeyImFinn wrote:
Finally someone makes a legit guide to this build!

By the way (just some nitpicking), it's Catallena, not Catalina. I know a lot of casters make that mistake too.



Fixed them all thanks! I have my client in Korean so I mess up spelling a lot.
GaTech CSL fighting!
ThorPool
Profile Joined February 2014
Panama145 Posts
September 03 2014 21:51 GMT
#6
Nice one ! Will try it out later
RuFF! Let the cheese rain !
EJK
Profile Blog Joined September 2013
United States1302 Posts
September 03 2014 23:40 GMT
#7
this doesn't work past a certain level on GM, that's why you never see it in professional games, but decent buildl to go up the ladder ranks with
Sc2 Terran Coach, top 16GM NA - interested in coaching? Message me on teamliquid!
ReMiiX
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States338 Posts
September 04 2014 02:17 GMT
#8
On September 04 2014 08:40 EJK wrote:
this doesn't work past a certain level on GM, that's why you never see it in professional games, but decent buildl to go up the ladder ranks with



Yeah it really drops off now. A while ago I could pull it off at that level but not anymore. Only occasionally as a build order win.

Its an ideal build to ladder a new account with though, average game length is like 5-6 minutes.
GaTech CSL fighting!
missicbc
Profile Joined September 2014
Algeria3 Posts
September 05 2014 10:03 GMT
#9
--- Nuked ---
mau5mat
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
Northern Ireland461 Posts
September 05 2014 12:53 GMT
#10
Love this guide, I would personally LOVE to see a similar styled guide on the ins/outs and nuances of 11/11 proxy barracks and its variants. There is a lot of source material in GSL Code S/A and in tournaments. I feel it's a build that, at a glance, seems pretty straight foward, but the execution and snap response decision making is very tricky to get right.

Solus420
Profile Joined April 2013
United States53 Posts
September 06 2014 02:55 GMT
#11
Added to The Ultimate Starcraft Guide

http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/2f2g98/wip_the_ultimate_starcraft_guide_wip/
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/2i9clc/the_ultimate_starcraft_directory/
DBS
Profile Joined July 2012
515 Posts
September 06 2014 04:58 GMT
#12
Woot woot terran cheese, i played this stuff alot at the begining of hots, against protoss too. Thanks for the guide though, i'll try it out again
"a pitchfork is for hay. a trident is for killing bitches." -djwheat
MSN
Profile Joined June 2013
Czech Republic53 Posts
September 06 2014 06:06 GMT
#13
EJK: why exactly it doesn't work ? try to explain in detail pls ! thx
What, you run out of Marines ? ^^
ThorPool
Profile Joined February 2014
Panama145 Posts
September 06 2014 15:20 GMT
#14
Well,fast marauders and/or a good placed bunker can ruin your day. I guess that is what he meant.
RuFF! Let the cheese rain !
Pursuit_
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States1330 Posts
September 06 2014 18:03 GMT
#15
On September 07 2014 00:20 ThorPool wrote:
Well,fast marauders and/or a good placed bunker can ruin your day. I guess that is what he meant.


No, the most common opening in TvT (gas first with immediate marine production out of the rax) can hold this very easily without even scouting it, just pull SCVs to retain your combat units until you get a critical mass of marines / hellions and tech to cloak banshee or medivac. Because this build cuts workers so early even if you lose 4-5 SCVs you often end up ahead, and you get guaranteed counter damage with the banshee / medivac.

Also, for the 1 scv double proxy variation, you can add an SCV before the second rax without slowing the reaper (might require good mineral stacking since I do this every game?). This build is really good vZ with good micro, vT I feel like it's a gimmick that really relies on your opponent positioning his first marine in a spot you can snipe it.
In Somnis Veritas
ThorPool
Profile Joined February 2014
Panama145 Posts
September 06 2014 19:19 GMT
#16
Thanks for the input Pursuit_
RuFF! Let the cheese rain !
daralharb
Profile Joined January 2011
United States59 Posts
September 06 2014 22:29 GMT
#17
ReMiiX, while the naysayers may dismiss it in a 1v1 setting, I tried it out in 2v2s, it works pretty well. I actually had someone use this on me on the map Old Country about a week before you posted this. It smashed us pretty good. Thanks for the guide!
HeyImFinn
Profile Joined September 2011
United States250 Posts
September 06 2014 23:41 GMT
#18
On September 04 2014 06:21 ReMiiX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2014 15:18 HeyImFinn wrote:
Finally someone makes a legit guide to this build!

By the way (just some nitpicking), it's Catallena, not Catalina. I know a lot of casters make that mistake too.



Fixed them all thanks! I have my client in Korean so I mess up spelling a lot.

Korean client imba. Do you read Hangeul?
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)STYLE START SBENU( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
ReMiiX
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States338 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-07 08:44:41
September 07 2014 08:25 GMT
#19
On September 07 2014 07:29 daralharb wrote:
ReMiiX, while the naysayers may dismiss it in a 1v1 setting, I tried it out in 2v2s, it works pretty well. I actually had someone use this on me on the map Old Country about a week before you posted this. It smashed us pretty good. Thanks for the guide!


Yeah, I was actually just about to post replays of this in 2v2. Its awesome on a lot of maps.

(maybe it was me ^^)

On September 07 2014 08:41 HeyImFinn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2014 06:21 ReMiiX wrote:
On September 02 2014 15:18 HeyImFinn wrote:
Finally someone makes a legit guide to this build!

By the way (just some nitpicking), it's Catallena, not Catalina. I know a lot of casters make that mistake too.



Fixed them all thanks! I have my client in Korean so I mess up spelling a lot.

Korean client imba. Do you read Hangeul?


I have a minor in Korean so I play in Korean just to listen to it more. I would say it helps pretty much not at all.


On September 07 2014 03:03 Pursuit_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2014 00:20 ThorPool wrote:
Well,fast marauders and/or a good placed bunker can ruin your day. I guess that is what he meant.


No, the most common opening in TvT (gas first with immediate marine production out of the rax) can hold this very easily without even scouting it, just pull SCVs to retain your combat units until you get a critical mass of marines / hellions and tech to cloak banshee or medivac. Because this build cuts workers so early even if you lose 4-5 SCVs you often end up ahead, and you get guaranteed counter damage with the banshee / medivac.

Also, for the 1 scv double proxy variation, you can add an SCV before the second rax without slowing the reaper (might require good mineral stacking since I do this every game?). This build is really good vZ with good micro, vT I feel like it's a gimmick that really relies on your opponent positioning his first marine in a spot you can snipe it.


Yeah, Pursuit_ is correct on everything here. With the double proxy you can sneak in an extra worker if you want, but if you are allinning it doesn't really matter since you are not mineral starved.
GaTech CSL fighting!
bigbozo
Profile Joined October 2014
2 Posts
October 09 2014 19:21 GMT
#20
The hardest thing for me with this build is sometimes killing the opponents scv which is building a barrack or factory, if they have other units attacking the reaper. Once the building is far enough along, I find the scv impossible to attack, since the reaper priortizes the scvs or marines attacking it. I´ve lost more than a few games where I got the enemy scv health down to like 5, but I couldnt get my reaper to take another shot at it. I guess you can work with the camera angles and zoom etc, but i find it almost impossible in some situations. Any tips?

Thanks in advance.
1 2 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
14:00
OSC Elite Rising Star #16
WardiTV853
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 349
LamboSC2 271
MindelVK 15
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 4995
Rain 2428
Bisu 1244
EffOrt 993
BeSt 837
Mini 573
Larva 446
Light 380
Stork 373
firebathero 252
[ Show more ]
actioN 235
ZerO 146
Hyun 141
Barracks 111
Backho 99
Rush 82
hero 79
Mong 58
Sharp 50
JYJ38
Aegong 30
scan(afreeca) 29
sorry 23
Dewaltoss 21
NaDa 18
Shine 15
Hm[arnc] 13
Terrorterran 13
Killer 12
yabsab 12
Dota 2
Gorgc10165
qojqva3111
Dendi1308
Fuzer 159
League of Legends
Trikslyr62
Counter-Strike
ScreaM1681
fl0m1146
ceh9396
Other Games
FrodaN1517
B2W.Neo677
Beastyqt674
Skadoodle402
Lowko315
ToD161
C9.Mang0110
QueenE45
FunKaTv 43
ZerO(Twitch)15
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• poizon28 22
• Adnapsc2 2
• Reevou 1
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 11
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3128
League of Legends
• TFBlade764
Other Games
• imaqtpie583
• Shiphtur304
• WagamamaTV123
Upcoming Events
OSC
36m
MaxPax vs Gerald
Solar vs Krystianer
PAPI vs Lemon
Ryung vs Moja
Nice vs NightPhoenix
Cham vs TBD
MaNa vs TriGGeR
PiGosaur Monday
6h 36m
OSC
1d 5h
The PondCast
1d 16h
OSC
1d 18h
Wardi Open
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
Safe House 2
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Safe House 2
4 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS2
WardiTV TLMC #15
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
EC S1
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Offline Finals
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.