There is a guide to this already but it is not very in depth. In this guide I hope to cover the subtleties of this complex build.
Intro:
This is a pretty effective cheese for TvT especially in the plat/diamond range where people don't just make random stuff but still aren't perfectly optimal in their builds. I first found it in the HotS beta on the 3rd page of some obscure strategy post. No one really seemed to use it, but I found it to be very strong. In HotS beta I had a 100% win rate in Grandmasters with it for a period of a few weeks. I did it literally every TvT and most TvZs. It can still work in TvZ but it relies more on your opponent being terrible than you being good. It is only good in TvP if they are proxy 2 gating or proxy stargate.
It is similar in style to that weird 9/9/9 banshee build from WoL beta where you could make a starport before supply depot.
Build Order:
Pretty easy to memorize
8 depot
8 rax @ 150 min
8 gas @ 75 min
8 rax @150 min
all reapers (no scvs!)
Orbital command when you have sufficient funds (usually around 15 supply but it depends on your losses)
Proxy Types:
The build depends on you aggressively proxying your first and sometimes second rax. There are a few different situations you can find yourself in based on the map.
1 proxy/1 home
2 proxy/1 scv
2 proxy/2 scv
1 proxy/1 home: Basically you will only find this on Catallena. You can double proxy on it (as you will see in a later video) but it doesn't make much of a difference, especially depending on spawns.
2 proxy/1 scv: This is mainly found on 2 person maps like King Sejong or Overgrowth. The reasoning behind it is that you will not have to scout to find your opponents base so you can just aggressively proxy right outside their base. This way you can just send one worker and build both barracks (as it will not effect gas timing which is the limiting factor of this build, to be explained later).
2 proxy/2 scv: This is used on large 3/4 person maps where you are unsure of the opponents location. The idea is that you can proxy both, gaining a slightly faster second barracks (which usually doesn't matter due to gas timings) while still scouting one base to use process of elimination (except for actual 4 person maps) to find out where your opponent is located.
Proxy Timings:
Here are the list of relative timings for your barracks building scvs based on proxy type, these are designed to have your scv reach the proxy locations right when you have 150 minerals:
1 proxy/1 home: Since this is basically just Catallena, send your first scv out as soon as you build your supply depot. Send your second scv to the second proxy location when your gas is finishing up.
2 proxy/1 scv: When your 8th scv (the one that will build the supply depot) is about half way done (+/- a little depending on map size) send your scv to your proxy location. As this is the only scv building you don't need to worry about anything else.
2 proxy/2 scv: As with 2 proxy/1 scv send a worker to the proxy location when your 8th scv is half way finished. Send your second worker as soon as you start gas.
Proxy Locations:
NOTE THAT NIMBUS IS NOT ON HERE AS IT IS 4 PERSON AND YOU BASICALLY HAVE TO MAPHACK TO PROXY CORRECTLY ON IT + THERE IS NO SURFACE AREA FOR REAPERS.
Legend:Colors denote spawning position, numbers denote order in which rax was placed.
Your reaper will hit before theirs if they are going reaper as well (your first one should be in their base at about 3:22), so you will have a window of free reign. If they go marines, snipe the first marine but make sure you are away from the barracks, the second marine will pop during this fight and your reaper will die. If they are going reapers or just didn't make a marine (lol) go for building scvs. They will usually be building a factory around when you get to their base, THIS IS YOUR PRIMARY TARGET. If you manage to delay the factory for long enough its an easy win.
If they are going reapers just camp the barracks after you deny any other buildings.
If they begin to make a bunker try to deny it but it is not really a big deal, units or factory scvs are still more important. You can always poke around a bunker to kill units.
So, in summary in order of priority:
Hellion
Marine/Reaper
Factory SCV
Other building SCVs
Mining SCVs
Tips:
One reaper can kill one marine with no micro but can not kill two even with micro
Build your depots away from your ramp and gas in the geyser farthest from your ramp.
As I mentioned earlier, if they make a marine first, you can kill it but the timing works out that the second marine should pop around when your reaper kills the first marine. Your reaper will die to this marine if you are too close to the barracks so try to engage away from it.
It takes 6 reapers to one shot a marine and an scv and 10 to one shot a hellion (5 will two shot it).
Be careful not to engage up cliffs when they are right on top of it. Try to fake out your opponent and get a good position before you attack.
Replays:
Some of these replays aren't the best, this build gets harder as you get higher in Masters and I forgot to save my old replays t_t. Some of these builds aren't optimal or are against weird openings but I think they are ok overall. I will upload more later if I can find them.
I'd like to just state that during these replays I am in platinum random 2v2 and have been rank one for weeks. My record is 70-20 at the time of posting. In the game against Hitman, everyone was masters random 2's except me. Thanks for the promotion blizz!
Here is a VoD of me losing to dSeleCt with this build at Red Bull Battle Grounds Atlanta. It was literally my first time playing Catallena and I had no idea how to do the timings. If I had sniped his hellions (both got to like 5 health) I think I could have won. Also, I would like to add that they spelled my name incorrectly in two different ways rofl.
Who am I: I am Marco aka "ReMiiX". I am currently studying Discrete Mathematics, Computer Science, and Korean at the Georgia Institute of Technology. I am the captain of the GT StarCraft team and run most of the eSports teams on campus. I have been masters since season 2 of WoL, reaching high masters multiple times as both Terran and Random and was GM in HotS beta and on SEA (lol).
On September 04 2014 08:40 EJK wrote: this doesn't work past a certain level on GM, that's why you never see it in professional games, but decent buildl to go up the ladder ranks with
Yeah it really drops off now. A while ago I could pull it off at that level but not anymore. Only occasionally as a build order win.
Its an ideal build to ladder a new account with though, average game length is like 5-6 minutes.
Love this guide, I would personally LOVE to see a similar styled guide on the ins/outs and nuances of 11/11 proxy barracks and its variants. There is a lot of source material in GSL Code S/A and in tournaments. I feel it's a build that, at a glance, seems pretty straight foward, but the execution and snap response decision making is very tricky to get right.
On September 07 2014 00:20 ThorPool wrote: Well,fast marauders and/or a good placed bunker can ruin your day. I guess that is what he meant.
No, the most common opening in TvT (gas first with immediate marine production out of the rax) can hold this very easily without even scouting it, just pull SCVs to retain your combat units until you get a critical mass of marines / hellions and tech to cloak banshee or medivac. Because this build cuts workers so early even if you lose 4-5 SCVs you often end up ahead, and you get guaranteed counter damage with the banshee / medivac.
Also, for the 1 scv double proxy variation, you can add an SCV before the second rax without slowing the reaper (might require good mineral stacking since I do this every game?). This build is really good vZ with good micro, vT I feel like it's a gimmick that really relies on your opponent positioning his first marine in a spot you can snipe it.
ReMiiX, while the naysayers may dismiss it in a 1v1 setting, I tried it out in 2v2s, it works pretty well. I actually had someone use this on me on the map Old Country about a week before you posted this. It smashed us pretty good. Thanks for the guide!
On September 07 2014 07:29 daralharb wrote: ReMiiX, while the naysayers may dismiss it in a 1v1 setting, I tried it out in 2v2s, it works pretty well. I actually had someone use this on me on the map Old Country about a week before you posted this. It smashed us pretty good. Thanks for the guide!
Yeah, I was actually just about to post replays of this in 2v2. Its awesome on a lot of maps.
On September 07 2014 00:20 ThorPool wrote: Well,fast marauders and/or a good placed bunker can ruin your day. I guess that is what he meant.
No, the most common opening in TvT (gas first with immediate marine production out of the rax) can hold this very easily without even scouting it, just pull SCVs to retain your combat units until you get a critical mass of marines / hellions and tech to cloak banshee or medivac. Because this build cuts workers so early even if you lose 4-5 SCVs you often end up ahead, and you get guaranteed counter damage with the banshee / medivac.
Also, for the 1 scv double proxy variation, you can add an SCV before the second rax without slowing the reaper (might require good mineral stacking since I do this every game?). This build is really good vZ with good micro, vT I feel like it's a gimmick that really relies on your opponent positioning his first marine in a spot you can snipe it.
Yeah, Pursuit_ is correct on everything here. With the double proxy you can sneak in an extra worker if you want, but if you are allinning it doesn't really matter since you are not mineral starved.
The hardest thing for me with this build is sometimes killing the opponents scv which is building a barrack or factory, if they have other units attacking the reaper. Once the building is far enough along, I find the scv impossible to attack, since the reaper priortizes the scvs or marines attacking it. I´ve lost more than a few games where I got the enemy scv health down to like 5, but I couldnt get my reaper to take another shot at it. I guess you can work with the camera angles and zoom etc, but i find it almost impossible in some situations. Any tips?
On October 10 2014 04:21 bigbozo wrote: The hardest thing for me with this build is sometimes killing the opponents scv which is building a barrack or factory, if they have other units attacking the reaper. Once the building is far enough along, I find the scv impossible to attack, since the reaper priortizes the scvs or marines attacking it. I´ve lost more than a few games where I got the enemy scv health down to like 5, but I couldnt get my reaper to take another shot at it. I guess you can work with the camera angles and zoom etc, but i find it almost impossible in some situations. Any tips?
Thanks in advance.
try to move your reaper(s) into a position that's in range of the building scv but not in range of the attacking units and use hold position micro to stutter step. other than that it's just good micro and smart maneuvering
On October 28 2014 22:21 micjmac wrote: Are there any builds that blind counter this?
Any standard terran build other than CC first does fine vs this with proper micro. Keep in mind that you can afford to lose a couple of SCVs, especially after you know he's on 2 barracks.
A blind counter is probably something like early 2 rax reaper (11 rax, 11 gas, 13 rax), but it's not really good vs other builds. Just learning the timing when the reaper hits and pulling enough SCVs is the best counter.
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