EPTSo fun... the tears of unfathomable sadness. Yummm yummmmm
(hellions OP)
[G]How to Mech them cry : Lyyna's Mech in HotS - Page 4
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy |
|
quirinus
Croatia2489 Posts
So fun... the tears of unfathomable sadness. Yummm yummmmm (hellions OP) | ||
|
MoonFan
Vietnam55 Posts
Usually they attack at 10:00 (2 bases roach), I scout it when I see some roachs + the lack of 3rd base, but sometime still fail to defend. On game that I can defend usually they contain me on 2 bases with their map control from roach. I just dont know what to do against roach, so some help 're about decision making would be great :D 1/ Where do you put tank when defend against 2 bases roach at 10 min? 2/ When/how do you take 3rd against 2 bases roach timing? 3/ Any tips on army position? because I'm not used to play against the mobility of Roach/Hydra so they usually catch me out of position Yah also, any tips against nydus worm? | ||
|
Lyyna
France776 Posts
On August 28 2014 05:54 KonanTenshi wrote: Hmm what's so strange about my opener? I really like it because I like the early BF it gives me. What would you recommend to change/do different`? Well, there is a reason hellion/banshee and 2/3 fact BFH are distinct openings :p Your second factory (and BF) is way too late to be useful, it reduces a lot the ambiguity about your transition if the zerg can see it, and you delay a lot the 3rd CC / upgrades. Too much sacrifice for something that in the end kicks in too late You should try to use a more standard hellion/banshee opening, or 2-3 fact BFH if you really want to play with a tons of hellions. Recent MVP games at RedBull Qualifiers 1 & 2 had nice examples of both builds On August 29 2014 03:28 MoonFan wrote: Any help on heavy Roach aggression into Roach Hydra Viper play? Usually they attack at 10:00 (2 bases roach), I scout it when I see some roachs + the lack of 3rd base, but sometime still fail to defend. On game that I can defend usually they contain me on 2 bases with their map control from roach. I just dont know what to do against roach, so some help 're about decision making would be great :D 1/ Where do you put tank when defend against 2 bases roach at 10 min? 2/ When/how do you take 3rd against 2 bases roach timing? 3/ Any tips on army position? because I'm not used to play against the mobility of Roach/Hydra so they usually catch me out of position Yah also, any tips against nydus worm? 1) Usually, i'll stay on 2 bases during the bust, so my tanks will be behind my walls, as spreaded as possible to make sure he cannot rush in and snipe all tanks in 3 attacks. But well at 10 minutes i probably will mainly have hellion / banshee anyway, with the latter behind the key at defending it. The problem of hellions/banshees is that your big factory stuff barely pop at 10 min, but the good thing is that in the long run, banshees means you'll regain at least some map control and force him to add something else to his army (because he really doesn't want to have to deal with 4,5,6 banshees with his roaches... oh no he doesn't) 2) Usually, whenever the big roach blob has been killed, or has been driven away and i'm able to track its position (banshees !) and know i have the time to take the 3rd and prepare my defenses 3) The hardest thing to explain. But honestly, sensor tower is already a big help to get in position. Against roach/hydra, you want to make sure you never extend too much your front line : it means that for example, you shouldn't let your hellbats charge in too early, otherwise the hydras at the back will murder them. Spread a bit your tanks so that he has to move a lot to kill them if he's able to reach them, try to keep your banshees alive if you have some until the end of the fight. As i said, explaining positionning is extremely hard, since it is one of the thing which relies the most on experience and personal style. The best way to learn, in the end, is to watch a tons of First Person POV resources to try and understand how it's done. Look at how a player position himself, wonder why he did that, wonder why you would have done yourself, etc etc About the nydus worm thing, it depends of the context. Early 2-3 bases worms busts ? You need vision in your whole base, and quick reaction time. At this point it becomes a frontal bust, and you should hold it like most frontal busts, with walls, repair, etc etc Late game nydus in your bases ? Haven't really seen it in HotS, but in WoL i used to keep a banshee or a tank in my exterior bases to be safe. And sensor towers everywhere to make sure he couldn't get vision on my side of the map outside of an overseer suicide run :D Late game nydus on the map for mobility ? A bit trickier, but usually the best thing to do is to have a little hitsquad (couple of banshees or tanks, maybe a medivac with a thor or some vikings) that'll clear them every time he leaves a nydus alone near your base. If he does that on his side of the map, of course it's not really possible to control it, but it is less of a problem for the terran | ||
|
KonanTenshi
Sweden210 Posts
On August 30 2014 22:38 Lyyna wrote: Well, there is a reason hellion/banshee and 2/3 fact BFH are distinct openings :p Your second factory (and BF) is way too late to be useful, it reduces a lot the ambiguity about your transition if the zerg can see it, and you delay a lot the 3rd CC / upgrades. Too much sacrifice for something that in the end kicks in too late You should try to use a more standard hellion/banshee opening, or 2-3 fact BFH if you really want to play with a tons of hellions. Recent MVP games at RedBull Qualifiers 1 & 2 had nice examples of both builds So if I remove the second factory and just keeps on pumping Hellions/banshee? I'm going to look at the MVP games afterwards got no time now just want to ask so I understand correctly  Have you tried the MVP thing when he drops 2 tanks and 4 hellions around the map? | ||
|
Lyyna
France776 Posts
On August 31 2014 00:14 KonanTenshi wrote: So if I remove the second factory and just keeps on pumping Hellions/banshee? I'm going to look at the MVP games afterwards got no time now just want to ask so I understand correctly Have you tried the MVP thing when he drops 2 tanks and 4 hellions around the map? The general idea of the build is usually to stay on 1-1-1, getting a 3rd CC / 1-2 armo at some point, then 2 more fact. The exact implementation of it depends a lot of your own style, hellion/banshee can be modified in a loooooooooooot of way to suit your needs (for example in WoL, i was playing a style using a 16 gas FE into only 4 hellions / 2 banshees in order to get my first mech units up ASAP and secure my third quickly). Alongside MvP games, most recent mech games in proleague (well, couple of months old) are good examples of hellion/banshee variations. Flash vs Life in Sandisk invitational also shows nice mech openings (hellbat/medivac push and hellion/banshee). Yes, i try to be a bit more agressive with my mech, dropping a bunch of stuff everywhere, but i have to admit i am slow as hell, making this strategy a bit hard to implement :D | ||
|
Tresher
Germany404 Posts
 . I especially like the paragraph that says that mech is not a noob strat cause like you said, thats a common misconception (especially for zerg players i had to realise in the past days). But the "Units" Section seems a bit chaotic, maybe you can bold or underline the names of the units. Same with the upgrades section.What i wanted to ask: Has your impression on this season maps changed? Cause I had a really long annyoning game on Catallena against a Zerg that went SHs ( I won it but still) and immediately put in on veto after I saw your post about it being bad for Mech. Same with Merry go Round altough I have a good win ratio on it and kinda like it. And what about King Sejong? I heard a lot of Meching players saying its not that good either. Nimbus I kinda like. And what maps are really really good for Mech (Overgrowth i think?) ? | ||
|
HomeWorld
Romania903 Posts
On August 27 2014 23:40 Lyyna wrote: Not sure about the roach thing, zer always liked to throw in a couple of weird roaches stuff sooo.. Your opening is a bit weird however ; you shouldn't go for a that fast second factory, force you to cut stuff and doesn't bring much early About the BM being looked down.. well, there is a couple of reasons for it (for people reading, don't take it badly, just some assumptions) : - Mech has always be a strategy traditionally associated with low APM players (hi Panzer General, i love you <3), which is "bad" is this game where APM are considered some kind of skill measurement - Mech isn't something you see often usually, and unusual play tends to be frustrating - Mech draw the game away from the traditional mechanic-based games we see normally. It is not about macro'ing a parade push, not about microing a bunch of tanks and marines against muta/ling/bling, it is not even like a standard deathball, it is something quite apart from all of this.... - Mech tends to be associated with long, boring games (even when it does produce great games people will just remember THE bad one..). - Also, a certain vaguely popular streamer makes sure mech gets permanently associated with BM, rage, and "i won't ever attack you lol noob" Get over it man, don't be a lemon  Good read, found the major guidelines(and other important details) to be the same as the ones I've learned from watching a popular streamer that mech'it'happen. | ||
|
Lyyna
France776 Posts
On September 10 2014 08:16 Tresher wrote: Hey Lyyna i am trying to get better at meching and your guide really helps. In fact I would say this is the only guide for mech right now. There were a lot more back in the days . I especially like the paragraph that says that mech is not a noob strat cause like you said, thats a common misconception (especially for zerg players i had to realise in the past days). But the "Units" Section seems a bit chaotic, maybe you can bold or underline the names of the units. Same with the upgrades section.What i wanted to ask: Has your impression on this season maps changed? Cause I had a really long annyoning game on Catallena against a Zerg that went SHs ( I won it but still) and immediately put in on veto after I saw your post about it being bad for Mech. Same with Merry go Round altough I have a good win ratio on it and kinda like it. And what about King Sejong? I heard a lot of Meching players saying its not that good either. Nimbus I kinda like. And what maps are really really good for Mech (Overgrowth i think?) ? Thanks a lot, glad that i can help There is quite a lot of good mech guides actually (look for the allthingsmech subreddit :p), but most of them are sadly video guides ; there for sure is a huge lack of written guide for mech t_t Thanks for the feedback about the units & upgrades, i do agree that it requires a bit of update. I'll try to get a big update going soon for these clarity things, + some additions about MechMine TvP (as soon as i get my work done and stop partying too much - sweden is a fun country for sure) About the maps.. i don't really know. Catallena ended up being OK, depending a lot of the spawning positions (dear mother of god i hate TvT when the opponent spawn close to my natural) and it requires a slightly more agressive positionning, which can be deadly versus some things, but well.. Merry go round is weird, the layout doesn't seems good for mech, at least when it comes to the 3rd, but for some reason i do have a strong winrate on it. Mystery King Sejong is a problematic map due to the fact it's easy for the opponent to abuse the sides to attack everywhere - it requires you to take the central base asap and strongly hold it to make sure your opponent cannot bully you left and right because of the threat of being attacked from behind. This season at least there is no "omfggodawfulinstadead" map for mech imo, all of them are decent and can be played on depending of preferences, which is nice ! But most of them are still a bit frustrating to play on --' On September 10 2014 19:47 HomeWorld wrote: Get over it man, don't be a lemon Good read, found the major guidelines(and other important details) to be the same as the ones I've learned from watching a popular streamer that mech'it'happen. Sadly, i have way too strong principles, both as a person, and as a part of the mech community, to not get strongly pissed of by someone like this. | ||
|
Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
I'm quite liking your openings Lyyna, it works for me to some degree, but people play insanely greedy when they recognize I'm going mech. And I usually can't punish it, because I'm so used to play defensively. So I ended up playing a bit more greedy too to see what I can get away with. Also, I wanted to ask (I hope it was not mentioned earlier, sorry if it was) - you seem to often throw away your SCVs very early and even though I know mech is not very demanding on minerals I find this to be a hinderance should the game go to ultra late-game. In this case I prefer to mass Orbitals before sacking my SCVs. | ||
|
PoisonTV
United Kingdom32 Posts
| ||
|
Lyyna
France776 Posts
@Everlong I do agree this is a big problem these days ; in WoL it was easier to match up economy through tech and army, which was the goal of my openings, but in HotS it became way harder to manipulate the ETA equation as a mech player. Requires a lot of scouting and adaptation, since it is now a problem with most mech openings. Learning when to cut units for greed or, in some situations (mainly vT, sometimes vZ), going allin About the scv thing, yes, it is a little flaw i do have ; for a while i went wayyyy too hard on this, having like 30 scv at 15 minutes on 3 bases -_- any terrible thing coming from WoL when i could make way more CCs way earlier. But since last month i've been going back on the right track and sacrificing them later (because yes, it was a mistake ><) And sorry DoM but i'm not modding on allthingsmech :p don't have the time atm ! (barely have the time to play, damn you too fun country !) | ||
|
MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
In TvP the rule was that you should not move out until you had lots of tanks with ghost and hellbat support (except for certain timing attacks). Now it seems better to attack all the time since it is quite easy to trade cost efficiently with mass widow mine supported by tanks and vikings. The traditional counter to mech like immortals and air switches are simply not that effective since the synergy of mine/tank/viking works so great against those counters. However if you try to turtle up in TvP the game becomes much harder due to the supply efficiency of Protoss and how powerful Protoss air becomes if you do not trade in time. So in my experience the best matchup for mech is actually TvP as long as you go mine/tank/viking and play aggressively. Mech actually seems weaker in TvZ since you are vulnerable both to mass roach attacks before you have enough tanks out to secure your third and to the swarm host/muta combo which I find extremely hard to beat, at least against opponents with good muta control that snipe your ravens, suicide seeker missile targeted mutas into your raven cloud etc. | ||
|
Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
On September 13 2014 04:03 MockHamill wrote: How to play mech seems to have changed a bit compared to earlier in HOTS. In TvP the rule was that you should not move out until you had lots of tanks with ghost and hellbat support (except for certain timing attacks). Now it seems better to attack all the time since it is quite easy to trade cost efficiently with mass widow mine supported by tanks and vikings. The traditional counter to mech like immortals and air switches are simply not that effective since the synergy of mine/tank/viking works so great against those counters. However if you try to turtle up in TvP the game becomes much harder due to the supply efficiency of Protoss and how powerful Protoss air becomes if you do not trade in time. So in my experience the best matchup for mech is actually TvP as long as you go mine/tank/viking and play aggressively. Mech actually seems weaker in TvZ since you are vulnerable both to mass roach attacks before you have enough tanks out to secure your third and to the swarm host/muta combo which I find extremely hard to beat, at least against opponents with good muta control that snipe your ravens, suicide seeker missile targeted mutas into your raven cloud etc. Hmm, my experience is quite the opposite. I'd like to see some of this mine/tank/viking in action. Do you have some replays or can you point to some vods of this working out well? In my experience, mines are just not reliable enough to stop zealot/archon/immortal jumping on your tanks. In my experience turtling in TvP is pretty safe as long as you won't sit there for like 30 minutes and let him max on Tempests/Templar forces. And even then you can win this fight. Hellions sniping HT's or just EMPs are surprisingly reliable and you should have around 20-30 Ravens by this point, so you should take basically 0 damage from Tempests. If he playes the kiting game, it's gonna take forever and then it depends on who makes the first big mistake or simply on micro/macro. As for TvZ, you should never die to your own seekers. You only seeker mutas if he commits to it and flies over your units, in which case, you can either place PDDs and finisht them off with your Vikings/Thors or, in case you don't have enough support units to actually kill them, you can seeker like 5-6 mutas and when he tries to fly into your Ravens, you just split them. There is no way Zerg can in time follow your splitted Ravens with mutas targeted by seeker. | ||
|
MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
On September 13 2014 04:23 Everlong wrote: Hmm, my experience is quite the opposite. I'd like to see some of this mine/tank/viking in action. Do you have some replays or can you point to some vods of this working out well? In my experience, mines are just not reliable enough to stop zealot/archon/immortal jumping on your tanks. In my experience turtling in TvP is pretty safe as long as you won't sit there for like 30 minutes and let him max on Tempests/Templar forces. And even then you can win this fight. Hellions sniping HT's or just EMPs are surprisingly reliable and you should have around 20-30 Ravens by this point, so you should take basically 0 damage from Tempests. If he playes the kiting game, it's gonna take forever and then it depends on who makes the first big mistake or simply on micro/macro. As for TvZ, you should never die to your own seekers. You only seeker mutas if he commits to it and flies over your units, in which case, you can either place PDDs and finisht them off with your Vikings/Thors or, in case you don't have enough support units to actually kill them, you can seeker like 5-6 mutas and when he tries to fly into your Ravens, you just split them. There is no way Zerg can in time follow your splitted Ravens with mutas targeted by seeker. I was talking about when you try to pick of his Swarmhosts, the mutas can snipe your ravens (or just snipe your bases). As for TvP I think the best example is Mario. He is not always using vikings though, but in my experience vikings make mine/tank work even better: | ||
|
Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
On September 13 2014 04:56 MockHamill wrote: I was talking about when you try to pick of his Swarmhosts, the mutas can snipe your ravens (or just snipe your bases). As for TvP I think the best example is Mario. He is not always using vikings though, but in my experience vikings make mine/tank work even better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe7y_mjOrvU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26efoA_HPYs You can easily prevent Mutas from sniping your bases by having sufficient number of turrets (which you can afford since you are building up Ravens so you have loads of minerals). If he goes really heavy on Mutas, placing 1 Thor at each base + solid turret ring makes you mostly safe and even if he overwhelms you, he loses so much gas in the process it's not worth it for him. As for killing SH, you shouldn't really go on creep with your Ravens and seeker his SH (there are exceptions where it's wise to do so, but generally you don't want to do this). This asks for being fungaled to death. The correct way I believe is to slow push against SH with your tanks and placing PDDs in a way you don't suffer any loses while trying to secure expansions slowly 1 by 1. This also prevents Zerg from pulling your stuff into SH and spine/spore with Vipers (something high level Zergs love to do - it's the counter cost effective style). As for TvP, this looks interesting. I would imagine a really abusive Protoss players could beat this with Tempest/HT, maybe some Colossus play. But this is such a rare playstyle it's hard to comment on it. I'd like to see him play few GM Protoss where he would tell them his strat at the start of the game and see what they can do (lets say in exchange for not being allined ). But it's really nice to see something completely new. I remember SuperNova doing this in beta and he had some success with it.Anyways, I've seen lots of successfull "standard" mech play work against Protoss (Hellbat/Tank/Ghost + Medivac/Viking support). Obviously this loses to Protoss air, but playing standard mech, you should never ever let Protoss trade their ground army and then remax on critical mass of air units comfortably. You should not even let them build a sufficient bank for this to happen. The worst case scenario is playing against aggresive Protoss players who abuse your immobility with dt's, warp prisms, blink stalkers, zealot warpins while taking whole map and building bank for air/ground switching. This usually gets you killed. But even this can be prevented, you just have to have exactly 0 holes in your defense and then you go kill him. | ||
|
KonanTenshi
Sweden210 Posts
I've noticed the best way to counter this is just sit comfortably with mass tanks/hellbats and turrets to screw the AI up... I'm still diamond level is this something people do masters+ ? | ||
|
Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
On September 13 2014 07:23 KonanTenshi wrote: Latley I've been up vs Ling bling ultra when I mech has this happened to you ? I've noticed the best way to counter this is just sit comfortably with mass tanks/hellbats and turrets to screw the AI up... I'm still diamond level is this something people do masters+ ? This happens very rarely. It could be that lower level Zergs scout mech play very late when they are already setup for bio play. To make something out of their useless Banelings, they just want to suicide them as effectively as possible. Or they are just bad and want a free win if the Terran moves out too soon or is too careless about their army so that they can roll their Banes in with Ultras or any kind of support and kill as much of your clumped stuff as they can. Then they proceed to win with remax. This, or they have actually no idea what to do vs mech. Best way how to deal with this is of course sitting behind your stuff untill you have 200/200 with upgrades and then slowly move out, leapfrogging your tanks or scanning ahead to not get caught out of position. This way they can't do much and you either secure another base, or siege their rally point for the win. You have to be aware though, because if they manage to kill lets say high number of your Thors, they can remax on Mutas and kill whole your army. Similary with tanks, they can remax on Roaches and just overrun you. So if you happen to lose important part of your army, you have to go back and scan them to see what they are going for. Emergency turrets should be going up already if it was Thors he managed to kill (they always try to do this to kill your ground stuff with Mutas, because Thors are really bad against Mutas unless there are like 4+ with some Viking support depending heavily on Mutas numbers of course). | ||
|
Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
On September 13 2014 00:33 Lyyna wrote: https://www.mediafire.com/?5fhog8hcdkuf245 , not the highest quality in these games ,since my swedish connection is lagging a bit (oh the irony..), and i'm been way too much partying (and drunk :D) since i arrived there Nice replays man, I've been doing similar stuff lately, only thing I've changed is that I squeezed in an Ebay + 2 Turrets in TvT (on smaller maps), because gas 1st cloak Banshee is so popular lately. It weakens me a bit against the Tank push people do here and there, but it's just a corner I decided to cut here, because it seems like it's going out of fashion. Another thing i do is that I make 1 safety Tank in TvZ before 2 Thors to deflect Mutas, I feel like the timing is still fine and for some reason people seem to allin a lot, especially if you happen to do some damage with Reaper/Hellion + claked Banshee squad (which happens pretty often). Also, the replay where your friend charges in with Immortal/Zealot/Archon and gets completely obliterated is priceless. This is such a deadly timing, I've had problems with this to it a lot, but relatively fast Ghosts are really solid answer to this. | ||
|
Gwavajuice
France1810 Posts
He was on King Sejong's, the Terran opened with mine/helion drops, which rain took care of with not so many losses while going for the usual blink/colo opener, then upon seeing mech, Rain proceeded to take his third while adding a second robo for mass immos. Then, as the terran started to turtle with viking/tanks/helions (a few runbyes of these killed quite a few probes) Rain used double warprism drop in the third and in the main while delaying the 4th of the Terran as much as possible (Rain took is 4th meanwhile). Once both 4th were established (with big difficulties for the terran) Rain added HT and archons and kept harrasing with his warpprisms, but the terran's ghost managed to keep him from destroying the 4th completly. Rain choosed to go for triple stargate mass tempest at this point, sacrificing his remaining colossi to free pop space, and used the tempest with oracle's revelation to siege the 4 th while taking his 5th and 6th base. Terran really seemed in the ropes but ravens came barely in time to counter the tempest. He somehow managed to get his own 5th which rain kept harassing with 4 immortals (the 2 warpprisms were still active ont the main and third and being a pita). Rain's 6th base was totally uncontested at this point. Then the game stabilized while rain added carriers to his mix and the terran started to sacrifice a lot of scv's. And then, the final battle : Rain : HT, archons, tempest, carriers (maybe a few immos I don't remember) Terran : mass viking/ravens, 6-7 Battle cruisers and 5-6 tanks with ghosts. Rain's army simply was obliterated as PDD's, yamamotos and the viking DPS cleared out the sky and the tanks/ghosts toasted the HT and archons. Rain gg'ed out just after. It was one of the best games I've seen this month. The terran was 15th on Kr ladder, I would have loved to see the game from his point of view. Anyway it was an impressive example of Mech usage vs Protoss. TL;DR top protoss being toasted by a mech compo in a very late game scenario : inspiring Edit 2 : sigh not anymore | ||
|
Lyyna
France776 Posts
On September 13 2014 04:03 MockHamill wrote: How to play mech seems to have changed a bit compared to earlier in HOTS. In TvP the rule was that you should not move out until you had lots of tanks with ghost and hellbat support (except for certain timing attacks). Now it seems better to attack all the time since it is quite easy to trade cost efficiently with mass widow mine supported by tanks and vikings. The traditional counter to mech like immortals and air switches are simply not that effective since the synergy of mine/tank/viking works so great against those counters. However if you try to turtle up in TvP the game becomes much harder due to the supply efficiency of Protoss and how powerful Protoss air becomes if you do not trade in time. So in my experience the best matchup for mech is actually TvP as long as you go mine/tank/viking and play aggressively. Mech actually seems weaker in TvZ since you are vulnerable both to mass roach attacks before you have enough tanks out to secure your third and to the swarm host/muta combo which I find extremely hard to beat, at least against opponents with good muta control that snipe your ravens, suicide seeker missile targeted mutas into your raven cloud etc. Overall, i do agree ; TvZ mech became way harder because of all the new thing zergs got, especially since some of them suppress a lot of terran's possibilities (SH/muta lock you in a defensive position and forces you into ravens ; vipers can get a lot of "free" kills and means you can't afford to get your ground caught out of positon, etc etc). In TvP, yes, actually mine/tank/viking is a pretty fun and more aggressive composition ; however my personal favorite will always be my lategame based, ghost-supported army :p however, mine-based mech is really fun and a good way to play a different kind of mech (that feeling when 20 mines detonate at the same time, with the protoss army above it..). HTOMario is a great mine/tank player if you want to learn it ; he has a lot of replays automatically updated on i-don't-remember-which-site On September 13 2014 07:23 KonanTenshi wrote: Latley I've been up vs Ling bling ultra when I mech has this happened to you ? I've noticed the best way to counter this is just sit comfortably with mass tanks/hellbats and turrets to screw the AI up... I'm still diamond level is this something people do masters+ ? Everlong's answer is a good one. Just to give my own, short one : lot of tanks (15+). And a strong thor (4+)/hellbat buffer. The key is to reach that amount of each unit that makes sure 1) the lings all die before your buffer is down 2) Every single tank/thor full salvo will kill 1-2 ultra . Banshees can also be great ; i liked them vs ultra even in WoL, and now with uppgrades.. hehe ! It can also be useful, if you are caught with too much vikings, to land them behind the ultralisks, when they connect with your buffer : ultralisks will go backwards and fight them, which can give you a couple of seconds of free tank fire (also work with autoturrets) On September 17 2014 00:27 Everlong wrote: Nice replays man, I've been doing similar stuff lately, only thing I've changed is that I squeezed in an Ebay + 2 Turrets in TvT (on smaller maps), because gas 1st cloak Banshee is so popular lately. It weakens me a bit against the Tank push people do here and there, but it's just a corner I decided to cut here, because it seems like it's going out of fashion. Another thing i do is that I make 1 safety Tank in TvZ before 2 Thors to deflect Mutas, I feel like the timing is still fine and for some reason people seem to allin a lot, especially if you happen to do some damage with Reaper/Hellion + claked Banshee squad (which happens pretty often). Also, the replay where your friend charges in with Immortal/Zealot/Archon and gets completely obliterated is priceless. This is such a deadly timing, I've had problems with this to it a lot, but relatively fast Ghosts are really solid answer to this. Glad you enjoyed it :p On September 24 2014 16:47 Gwavajuice wrote: I've seen a beautiful game yesterday, when watching Rain's stream. He was on King Sejong's, the Terran opened with mine/helion drops, which rain took care of with not so many losses while going for the usual blink/colo opener, then upon seeing mech, Rain proceeded to take his third while adding a second robo for mass immos. Then, as the terran started to turtle with viking/tanks/helions (a few runbyes of these killed quite a few probes) Rain used double warprism drop in the third and in the main while delaying the 4th of the Terran as much as possible (Rain took is 4th meanwhile). Once both 4th were established (with big difficulties for the terran) Rain added HT and archons and kept harrasing with his warpprisms, but the terran's ghost managed to keep him from destroying the 4th completly. Rain choosed to go for triple stargate mass tempest at this point, sacrificing his remaining colossi to free pop space, and used the tempest with oracle's revelation to siege the 4 th while taking his 5th and 6th base. Terran really seemed in the ropes but ravens came barely in time to counter the tempest. He somehow managed to get his own 5th which rain kept harassing with 4 immortals (the 2 warpprisms were still active ont the main and third and being a pita). Rain's 6th base was totally uncontested at this point. Then the game stabilized while rain added carriers to his mix and the terran started to sacrifice a lot of scv's. And then, the final battle : Rain : HT, archons, tempest, carriers (maybe a few immos I don't remember) Terran : mass viking/ravens, 6-7 Battle cruisers and 5-6 tanks with ghosts. Rain's army simply was obliterated as PDD's, yamamotos and the viking DPS cleared out the sky and the tanks/ghosts toasted the HT and archons. Rain gg'ed out just after. It was one of the best games I've seen this month. The terran was 15th on Kr ladder, I would have loved to see the game from his point of view. Anyway it was an impressive example of Mech usage vs Protoss. TL;DR top protoss being toasted by a mech compo in a very late game scenario : inspiring Edit 2 : sigh not anymore Note to self : never again say "i'll watch that later" T_T . I would have loved to see that. I guess the terran was a barcode ? Nice write up anyway, thanks, nice to know there is people playing mech high on the KR ladder ! | ||
| ||
