Jaedong vs Patience at IEM cologne is one of the best games of the year. If you haven't seen it already, we highly recommend you watch it NOW before reading any further:
We've spent quite some time working on this article looking at both players perspectives in the match. Whether you are Protoss or Zerg there is a lot to learn.
Click on the name of the player below to switch between the player POVs.
Photo: ESL
Patience: Always Unique
Going into game five, Patience had already pulled out a handful of tricks and bedazzlements which Jaedong met with mixed success: deflecting some all-ins with ease or completely missing a timing and finding himself in rough shape. In any case, Patience's solid macro play mixed with his trademark wonky twist allowed him to take the series all the way to the final game.
With a brilliant showing at recent tournaments and the ability to seemingly pull magic out of his bag of tricks, Patience seemed poised to take a position in the semi-finals. The only thing standing in his way was The Tyrant, the hallmark player of perfect play. Could his unorthodox style pull through and secure him a shot at the championship?
Patience's +1 Phoenix Opening
As the game starts, Patience opens with his fairly standard gateway expand followed by phoenix, beginning what appears to be a very standard game.With the map taken into account, both players begin to make alterations. Plainly stated, Alterzim Stronghold is a very big map. When travel distance is taken into account, almost all ground attacks and ground-based pressure can be ruled out and considered ineffective, making stargate play the only real viable option for harassment and slowing down the Zerg economy. Patience, using this logic, invests very heavily into his phoenix harassment. He opens into very standard phoenix/colossus play, but with a slight twist: he goes all the way up to eight phoenixes and researches +1 air attack, making his phoenix harassment much more powerful. His phoenix harass kills three queens, several overlords, and countless drones, more than making up for the investment into extra phoenixes. Interestingly, this tactic would not work on a smaller map like Yeonsu or Heavy Rain, as a counter-hydra timing would hit long before the Protoss player could attempt to get a colossus out: what makes it effective in this case is the gigantic rush distance of Alterzim. In this way, Patience uses the map size to his advantage.
Patience's phoenixes strike fear into the heart of every overlord and queen everywhere
The drawback to a heavy air opening is a slightly later third, closer to 10:00 than the more common timings of 8:00-9:00, however, in conjunction with effective phoenix harassment, Patience manages to break fairly even in economy on three bases. He further extends this theme by taking his fourth and fifth bases fairly slowly to make sure he has enough army and infrastructure to defend them, all the while threatening pressure with his army and a warp prism.
Double Upgrades and a Heavy Ground Army
After opening with phoenixes for harass and scouting information, Patience can draw some conclusions about Jaedong's double upgraded ling opening and react accordingly. With the heavy ling emphasis, double upgrades, and insanely early hive timing, Patience can definitely assume Jaedong is going for a 2-2 ultra rush, however, instead of rushing to void rays and getting a big laser colossus/void ray deathball, Patience starts a second forge and a second robo and focuses on getting a more powerful ground army with lots of immortals. The emphasis on a ground-based army allows Patience to better secure his fourth and fifth bases against Jaedong's constant counterattacks as well as letting him put some pressure onto Jaedong's additional bases via army pressure and warp prism tactics.
Patience pushes the right side of the map with his army while using his warp prism to pick off bases in the north
Throughout the mid game, Patience is constantly moving toward Jaedong's fourth and fifth bases while threatening drops on the other side, attempting to snipe bases and slow down Jaedong's economy. Jaedong's relentless runbys keep Patience pinned back and unable to really commit to any pressure, at several points even forcing him to recall.
The Transition to Air
With five mining bases up and a powerful ground army of immortals, colossus, archons, and double-upgraded gateway units, Patience finally decides it's time to switch to air, making a total of five stargates. The final addition of void rays to his already formidable ground army creates a terrifyingly strong army which Patience begins to move across the map with. In addition, Patience throws down a dark shrine to fill out his tech and allow him to deal with any further runbys cost-effectively. Unbeknownst to Patience, Jaedong also moves across the map with a gigantic super-army of brood lord/ultra/queen/infestor while Patience is attempting to push Jaedong's bases. Again, the size of the map proves to dynamically shape the game as both players move counterclockwise and miss each other in the center of the map, beginning a quasi-base race. During this base race, Patience manages to destroy Jaedong's fifth and sixth mining bases and moving almost directly into Jaedong's main before recalling to try and save his main base, but not before happening to spot a growing flock of mutalisks.
Stonewalled at the fourth base of Patience and unable to run away with his slow, immobile army, Jaedong is forced to take an unfavorable trade and loses all of his ultralisks and most of his brood lords. Jaedong then begins his infamous mutalisk switch to try and end the game, but Patience is already prepared with his five stargates and air upgrades from earlier. In under a minute, he is able to push out ten phoenixes with the anion pulse crystal upgrade already complete, effectively killing Jaedong's mutalisk switch before it even gets off the ground. Patience also begins multi-pronged DT harass to pick off Jaedong's freshest bases while gathering his army up for one last big fight.
Composition Wars and The Fatal Mistake
Patience goes up to twenty phoenix while remaking a powerful colossus/archon army to deal with Jaedong's mutalisk switch, however, during this time both players completely empty their banks and are forced to pick defensible forward bases. Patience chooses the base just to the right of his fifth, very close to Jaedong's new mining base; this allows him to defend any counterattacks reasonably well and push directly to Jaedong's final mining base very easily when ready. After reloading and remaxing, Patience feels confident to take down Jaedong's final fortification and end the game.
As Patience moves in to kill the final base, his composition is based around killing muta/corruptor. Unfortunately for him, Jaedong uses a mixture of ground and air units, including a small handful of ultralisks and brood lords, allowing him to crush Patience's army in surprisingly dominant fashion. During the engagement, Patience makes a fatal error and loses his fresh base to a small group of lings while distracted with the big fight, bringing him to almost no gas income. Unable to make the expensive gas units he needs and now heavily outclassed in composition, Patience looks to be on the ropes. In a desperation attempt, Patience uses his phoenixes to gain air dominance and take out several of Jaedong's drones while retaking his lost base, but Jaedong already has a ling counterattack ready and denies the base from completing.
The moment when all things go wrong for Patience
With his economy slowly receding, Patience's only hope is in the more mobile zealot/archon composition to deal with counterattacks and prevent further mining bases from going down for Jaedong. Though Patience finally manages to secure his income, the prolonged gas starvation is starting to take effect as his lack of immortals and void rays catches up with him. In a final engagement, Jaedong catches reinforcing immortals with lings while punching through Patience's final force with several ultralisks, finally forcing the tap-out.
Going into game five, the series is tied up two to two; the games have been a mixture of nail bitingly close and absolute blow outs in either direction. JD elects to go for triple-hatch-before-pool builds, not once, not twice, but a full three times in the same series, showing an incredible capability to utilize risk under heavy pressure.
Naniwa would never (have) let this happen
The Tyrant left Brood War with great honor, seeking even greater glory in SC2. With everything on the line and a spot in the semifinals available, Jaedong would need to play his absolute best to get past his rather unorthodox foe.
Three-Hatch Before Pool: Not Greedy Enough
Jaedong insisted upon playing as greedy as possible and grabbed gas before pool after starting his triple hatcheries in order to crank out ling speed that much faster than usual. This gambit paid off as Patience went for his standard two-gas gateway expand and was unable to contest Jaedong's early greed. The current Zerg vs Protoss meta game favors Hydra or Swarmhost-based compositions in standard games, with some cheese or “just build mutalisks” games thrown in. Jaedong eschews these more standard styles in the final game, instead tailoring his style to suit the map. The early gas allows for an earlier ling speed than normally possible with a quick 3 hatch opening, which leads in nicely to the second part of his build, double melee upgrades. This works with the map wonderfully, giving him unprecedented map control, counter attack potential and base denial.
Unfortunately, Patience also altered his style to fit the map, opting for eight +1 phoenix that did an incredible amount of damage, slowing Jaedong’s build down, as well as making his ling swell designed to shutdown the Protoss third base largely ineffectual.
Laying Plans and Adapting
Jaedong’s opener set him up for a solid mid game in which to execute his plan. The 1/1 ling build usually transitions into a 2/2 ultralisk direct assault against the Protoss player, but relies heavily on creep to bring queens across the map. With Alterzim being such a large map, this timing would be almost impossible to accomplish. Compounding this issue are the eight phoenixes that Patience made, sniping queens and overlords and doing everything they can to deny creep spread.
Instead of forcing the timing despite these setbacks, Jaedong adapts and plays defensively, morphing a hive and placing a macro hatch before his fourth base while amassing a queen/infestor army to deal with Patience’s air units. This defensive play is not to say that Jaedong let Patience do what he wanted, however, as he kept a up a relentless string of ling counter attacks to thwart bases, army move outs, and proxy pylons from Patience. The eventual 2/2 cracklings are obscenely powerful and allow Jaedong to do several runbys, particularly at the fourth base, to deny many bases and buildings of Patience.
Composition Wars
Once Jaedong had secured a fourth base, dealt with the immediate phoenix threat, and started grabbing ultralisks. the game begins to take a somewhat unexpected turn. Many viewers anticipated a huge ultralisk/queen/ling/infestor timing, but this was impossible due to distance between bases and limited creep spread. Others expected him to bank lots of money, take a favorable engagement, and then start his trademark muta transition. Jaedong does add on a spire, but immediately starts teching to brood lords instead; this is a fantastic addition to his already strong ultralisk/queen/infestor force as it gives him extra space control and siege damage at a relatively cheap cost compared to swarm hosts, which would be more expensive for the same effect. Due to upgrades from ground affecting broodlings as well as broodlord (air) upgrades boosting his later mutalisk switch, this was a wise decision.
Looking at Jaedong’s army composition choices, Jaedong tailors his army to whatever in-game scenario presents itself. Jaedong starts by planning a ling/ultralisk ground army, designed to keep himself alive and counter attack. Once this phase of the game is done and Jaedong is on four or more bases, he transitions into a mixed army that’s not over-emphasized in one direction or another, with broods, ultralisks, queens, and infestors rounding out his lineup. This army is his “championship” fighter, designed to get in the ring and knock out all comers. This army is so powerful that it, coupled with some amazing proxy brood lord and ultralisk drop harass, forces Patience into somewhat of a base trade.
Jaedong, like Patience, uses harassment and drop techniques on the south side of the map while using his army to threaten the left-side expansions
As Patience starts to close in on Jaedong's main base, Jaedong's plan reaches the next stage: the hardest muta swap known to man. Expecting a hard base trade, Jaedong prepares by giving himself mobility mixed with an unbeatably strong army by trading out his lost drones for mutalisks.
Ladies and gentlemen, we are going to the skies
This is Jaedong’s signature kill move. He’s fried championship Protoss after championship Protoss with this strategy, but in this game Patience reads him like a book. With a grand total of five stargates prepped and ready, along with an already heavily upgraded air force, Patience immediately slams into full-on phoenix production, deflecting the mutalisk choke hold and blunting Jaedong's death march, putting himself in the lead.
Despite this hurdle, Jaedong plays patiently, working to rebuild his army and his economy that are both in shambles after the expansions and army are traded. The tech switch to mutas also forces further phoenix production from Patience than would have been strictly necessary given perfect information, weakening the potential response to the more evenly mixed composition Jaedong was building. He then expands into the mid-right side of the map and safely mines long enough to build up a reasonable army again. Once this base is secured, Jaedong’s intention is again revealed through his compositional mastery. He adds in broodlords, ultralisks, infestors, and queens, knowing that this will be another knock down drag out fight involving everything either side has to throw at each other.
Engagements:
Throughout the game, Jaedong uses his army positioning and harass to protect his bases and secure different portions of the map. During big engagements, he also uses harass to make seemingly impossible fights go his way by diverting his opponent's attention. The second major fight in this game is easily the most-discussed engagement, and there’s a lot of factors that play into the fight swinging his way:
Expansion positioning
Harass
Air army positioning
Focus fire, fungals, and micro
The game has gone all the way from three mining bases in the opening stages down to two mining bases for Jaedong, barely enough sustenance to build an army. With his bank depleted, he understands that economy is once again the most important aspect of the game and goes in for a ling counter as the engagement occurs, drawing Patience’s attention away from the fight and away from microing his expensive army to defending his expansion.
Jaedong engages with broodlord/ultra/infestor initially, fungalling the Protoss army and holding it in place while broodlings and ultralisks go to work. The casters for the event started shouting “Where are the corrupters, where are the mutalisks?”, perplexed as to why Jaedong only engaged with a portion of his army, but this deliberate move on the part of Jaedong was critical to him winning the fight. If he had engaged with his air army too soon the number of archon/phoenix would’ve shredded his air, leaving him with nothing even if he did manage to trade out the army. Instead JD waits, picking off phoenixes with spores and infestors and letting the broodlords focus fire the archons and tank some amount of damage safely with their high armor. Then, once the Protoss army has been weakened, Jaedong’s air army sweeps in, swinging the tide of battle once again in his favor.
With some amazing air positioning and fungals, Jaedong takes this fight and begins to press his advantage by chasing Patience’s army down and picking off stragglers while simultaneously denying a much-needed base from the Protoss. As this happens, Jaedong starts his transition into a ground-only army again, knowing that he won’t need his slowest, most powerful army for some time to come. Jaedong continues to wear away at Patience, pressing against the crucial bottom middle expansion. Finally Patience is forced to fight to defend his army, but Jaedong has split him up with lings in his reinforcement path and trapped his main army with fungals. With the last archons evaporating and his last mining base surely about to be crushed, Patience taps out.
Jaedong, The Tyrant, stands proud over the rotting carcass of his opponent
On April 18 2014 04:54 lantz wrote: Is patience still relevant? I have not seen him in a casted game ever since this day T.T
Yeah, he plays in the German EPS and he is playing at Dreamhack. Just because someone isn't in televised matches doesn't mean they or their match history is irrelevant.
If only more PvZs were like this instead of some kind of 2base all in. Beautiful game by both players. I watched before I read the report so needless to say, I was on the edge of my seat the whole time.
On April 18 2014 07:56 Holdenintherye wrote: To be honest, I'm more impressed by the click the picture to switch thing than the article itself. That's some cool shit.
Patience would be one of the big names if i went all the way to final in DH W 2013 Quali --> ezpz group --> killing the lower bracket and yet falling short to 3'rd. One of my favorite runs in sc2 history.
Rofl @ best game ever. Game was boring as F, macro game with no meaningful harass til they both are like 4 bases. 2 big fights later on which were HARDLY exciting.
Good to know sc2 is still sh1t, and lol @ TL for calling this one of the best games ever, JD fanboism or just stupid?
Yes, i remember this one! It was heartbreaking b/c I wanted patience to win this one, lol. Helluva series though. The final game was just epic, especially when it was live. Patience had a lot of hype going into this match and thedong had a lot of pressure on him. Overall, one of the most memorable series of the year so far.
I remember watching this game it was early in the morning and I had work tomorrow but it was so worth I remember that final huge engagement were Jaedong barely pulled through it was such a great game it had me on the edge of my seat
On April 18 2014 10:04 uTears wrote: Best game ever? lol..
there a lot of better games imo, but nice article:D keep the good job.
I think the game was pretty beautiful not the greatest ever in history of ever but honestly, a little embellishment never hurt anyone.
Heres the deal. 90% of games are meaningless drivel. How it is presented is 100% of the reason popular sports/esports exists. Most football games are crap, unless the marketing department/commentators make it look pretty. Most Boxing matches are boring, but its exciting when the narrative of the boxers is presented.
Esports NEEDS more shit like this. It NEEDS more ways of presenting even "okay" games as something exciting. This article did that--this article is a godsend.
On April 18 2014 10:04 uTears wrote: Best game ever? lol..
there a lot of better games imo, but nice article:D keep the good job.
I think the game was pretty beautiful not the greatest ever in history of ever but honestly, a little embellishment never hurt anyone.
Heres the deal. 90% of games are meaningless drivel. How it is presented is 100% of the reason popular sports/esports exists. Most football games are crap, unless the marketing department/commentators make it look pretty. Most Boxing matches are boring, but its exciting when the narrative of the boxers is presented.
Esports NEEDS more shit like this. It NEEDS more ways of presenting even "okay" games as something exciting. This article did that--this article is a godsend.
Whoa whoa whoa, this was not an "okay" game. Did you not see the triple-pronged attack with BLord morphs, ultra drops, and army movement??? Did you not the literally constant ling/phoenix movement in the early game and the way each player subtly changed their strategies based on scouting? Did you not see the two INCREDIBLE fights that Jaedong somehow managed to claw an advantage out of? Did you not see the breathtaking, stunning arc of each player's game plan?
There have been some good games after this, especially in the HerO vs. Polt series in the finals of this IEM. But without a doubt, this was one of the most amazing games I've ever watched. There is so much going on the entire game, and this was the first really, truly amazing game played on this map. How can you look at this game and not see these things?
In my opinion, this game DEFINED the PvZ meta on this map. Both players did all of the perfectly right things and played out the mid game perfectly...I look at this game and wonder why anyone would play any other way. It's so beautiful.
This is not only the best write up I've ever read on TL, but quite possibly one of the best articles ever. Great read, I feel like I was watching the damn game. Now I'm gonna go watch the game lmao.
On April 18 2014 10:04 uTears wrote: Best game ever? lol..
there a lot of better games imo, but nice article:D keep the good job.
I think the game was pretty beautiful not the greatest ever in history of ever but honestly, a little embellishment never hurt anyone.
Heres the deal. 90% of games are meaningless drivel. How it is presented is 100% of the reason popular sports/esports exists. Most football games are crap, unless the marketing department/commentators make it look pretty. Most Boxing matches are boring, but its exciting when the narrative of the boxers is presented.
Esports NEEDS more shit like this. It NEEDS more ways of presenting even "okay" games as something exciting. This article did that--this article is a godsend.
Whoa whoa whoa, this was not an "okay" game. Did you not see the triple-pronged attack with BLord morphs, ultra drops, and army movement??? Did you not the literally constant ling/phoenix movement in the early game and the way each player subtly changed their strategies based on scouting? Did you not see the two INCREDIBLE fights that Jaedong somehow managed to claw an advantage out of? Did you not see the breathtaking, stunning arc of each player's game plan?
There have been some good games after this, especially in the HerO vs. Polt series in the finals of this IEM. But without a doubt, this was one of the most amazing games I've ever watched. There is so much going on the entire game, and this was the first really, truly amazing game played on this map. How can you look at this game and not see these things?
In my opinion, this game DEFINED the PvZ meta on this map. Both players did all of the perfectly right things and played out the mid game perfectly...I look at this game and wonder why anyone would play any other way. It's so beautiful.
Well, I was being much more broad when I said that 90% of all games are crap. This specific game was absolutely amazing and anyone who dislikes it obviously either didn't watch it or didn't *watch* it.
However, I know for a fact that a well written battle report will make even the dumbest one sided games sound like the stuff of legend. Heck, even a 4-0 roflstomp can, with enough eloquence, be made to sound like the most exciting moment of the year. This is not because Battlereports are better than live games, it is because battlereports can show you what was actually happening in a game. So not only do you know *why* the match was 4-0 but you can see what mistakes the players made that caused him to go 0-4, you can see just what the winning player saw that allowed him to go 4-0.
Its a tough task, and but damn its an absolutely sexy product.
On April 18 2014 10:04 uTears wrote: Best game ever? lol..
there a lot of better games imo, but nice article:D keep the good job.
I think the game was pretty beautiful not the greatest ever in history of ever but honestly, a little embellishment never hurt anyone.
the game was good, dont get me wrong. but is just a bored macro game, with no good harass(just the phoenix one by Patience) or even good fights.. they just sit in base and wait for 200/200 and try to do smth against full upgrades armys.. its was bored to me.
I haven't watched SC2 for a while now and it took some getting into. An ignorant person won't see the beauty in this game and even for an experienced person there's something to admire on second and third watch.
The perspective concept is cool. I thought it could be a bit stronger still (more bold perhaps) where you'd exemplify information being hidden. Patience's piece was written a bit more .. negative (losing side) through out, but that was perhaps the reality.
On April 19 2014 02:06 Badjas wrote: Thanks TL Strategy Team
I haven't watched SC2 for a while now and it took some getting into. An ignorant person won't see the beauty in this game and even for an experienced person there's something to admire on second and third watch.
The perspective concept is cool. I thought it could be a bit stronger still (more bold perhaps) where you'd exemplify information being hidden. Patience's piece was written a bit more .. negative (losing side) through out, but that was perhaps the reality.
Hey there,
Thanks for the feedback. I agree that there was more we could do with it, emphasizing troop movement relative to information. The problem with that is that it gets so in depth as to not appeal to the average front page viewer. That may be something that I (and SC2John) explore later, but for now I think we're pretty happy with this .
Oh, and for what its worth I don't think the Patience write up is all that negative. The ending is, of course, because he lost :3. But there were several points where Patience had a resounding lead, and I think the article reflects that.
On April 19 2014 02:06 Badjas wrote: Thanks TL Strategy Team
I haven't watched SC2 for a while now and it took some getting into. An ignorant person won't see the beauty in this game and even for an experienced person there's something to admire on second and third watch.
The perspective concept is cool. I thought it could be a bit stronger still (more bold perhaps) where you'd exemplify information being hidden. Patience's piece was written a bit more .. negative (losing side) through out, but that was perhaps the reality.
We would love to produce more dual articles like this in the future, but it's very hard to go into a lot of detail. If we go into too much analytic depth, the article would be sprawling and take far too long to read through; this is good for a stylistic guide like the 4M guide or the really old PvZ guide, but for game analysis it can get quite stale.
We hope to continually experiment with different article formats and writing styles and we appreciate all of your feedback! Thanks again for reading!
On April 19 2014 02:06 Badjas wrote: Thanks TL Strategy Team
I haven't watched SC2 for a while now and it took some getting into. An ignorant person won't see the beauty in this game and even for an experienced person there's something to admire on second and third watch.
The perspective concept is cool. I thought it could be a bit stronger still (more bold perhaps) where you'd exemplify information being hidden. Patience's piece was written a bit more .. negative (losing side) through out, but that was perhaps the reality.
We would love to produce more dual articles like this in the future, but it's very hard to go into a lot of detail. If we go into too much analytic depth, the article would be sprawling and take far too long to read through; this is good for a stylistic guide like the 4M guide or the really old PvZ guide, but for game analysis it can get quite stale.
We hope to continually experiment with different article formats and writing styles and we appreciate all of your feedback! Thanks again for reading!
It doesn't have to be very in depth, but simply spending a page highlighting one match (even from just one side) is absolutely wonderful and allows you to rewatch the match with a different mindset.
The dual thing, I do love. But it doesn't have to be dual for it to be loved if you know what I mean
On April 19 2014 02:40 Jowj wrote: Oh, and for what its worth I don't think the Patience write up is all that negative. The ending is, of course, because he lost :3. But there were several points where Patience had a resounding lead, and I think the article reflects that.
I reread it a bit and I'll concede In my defense, I DID just watch the game then. And I thought Patience was gonna win it for the longest time. Damned phoenixes
On April 18 2014 07:56 Holdenintherye wrote: To be honest, I'm more impressed by the click the picture to switch thing than the article itself. That's some cool shit.
Yeah that's pretty bossley, documenting composition wars still doesn't make it interesting...
On April 19 2014 02:40 Jowj wrote: Oh, and for what its worth I don't think the Patience write up is all that negative. The ending is, of course, because he lost :3. But there were several points where Patience had a resounding lead, and I think the article reflects that.
I reread it a bit and I'll concede In my defense, I DID just watch the game then. And I thought Patience was gonna win it for the longest time. Damned phoenixes
I remember watching the vod of it (couldn't watch live ) and even though I knew Jaedong won I still couldn't see how he won the game xD.
Why did Jaedong not just go kill him with his 50 (1/1) lings at ~11 minutes? Patience had ~5 sentries, 2 zealots, 1 immortal and MSC. He easily could have traded well and/or cancelled the 3rd. With a hive back home, I can't see how the game would have lasted much longer.
On April 20 2014 11:51 Alacast wrote: Why did Jaedong not just go kill him with his 50 (1/1) lings at ~11 minutes? Patience had ~5 sentries, 2 zealots, 1 immortal and MSC. He easily could have traded well and/or cancelled the 3rd. With a hive back home, I can't see how the game would have lasted much longer.
That's a good point. But at the same time, those lings are Jaedong's only form of map control and vision at the time. If he commits to an attack (which he only had 20 lings at Patience's natural @11:00, the other 26 were in production), he loses all map presence and then he's on a defensive ultra army on 3 bases vs. 3 bases. Not ideal. If your goal is to trade, you need to be able to continually trade, which is just not possible on cross positions Alterzim with minimal creep spread.
As you can see shortly thereafter, Jaedong is able to use those lings to effectively prevent any kind of real pressure from hitting him as he grabs infestors. Cancelling the 4th is something Jaedong couldn't have done with his lings if he had sacrificed them. This also has the effect of pulling back Patience's potential pressure which Jaedong would have had to defend with his reinforcement lings had he traded.
Overall, I think it links back to game plan:
1) If our goal is to trade and slowly wear down our opponent, we need to be trading constantly. This isn't really possible in these positions on this map. 2) If our goal is to prevent the Protoss from expanding, we want to stay ahead in bases. Since we're obviously going for a hive rush on 3 bases, it doesn't seem useful to trade for the nexus. 3) If our goal is to use the lings for map control, we want to retain them as much as possible and only take small, cost efficient trades. Not only do the lings allow us to pick off stray units/probes/pylons, but they also give us vision of what's happening on the map and allows us to track our opponent's army. This one makes the most sense on this map, and this is how Jaedong decided to play.
On April 20 2014 11:51 Alacast wrote: Why did Jaedong not just go kill him with his 50 (1/1) lings at ~11 minutes? Patience had ~5 sentries, 2 zealots, 1 immortal and MSC. He easily could have traded well and/or cancelled the 3rd. With a hive back home, I can't see how the game would have lasted much longer.
That's a good point. But at the same time, those lings are Jaedong's only form of map control and vision at the time. If he commits to an attack (which he only had 20 lings at Patience's natural @11:00, the other 26 were in production), he loses all map presence and then he's on a defensive ultra army on 3 bases vs. 3 bases. Not ideal. If your goal is to trade, you need to be able to continually trade, which is just not possible on cross positions Alterzim with minimal creep spread.
As you can see shortly thereafter, Jaedong is able to use those lings to effectively prevent any kind of real pressure from hitting him as he grabs infestors. Cancelling the 4th is something Jaedong couldn't have done with his lings if he had sacrificed them. This also has the effect of pulling back Patience's potential pressure which Jaedong would have had to defend with his reinforcement lings had he traded.
Overall, I think it links back to game plan:
1) If our goal is to trade and slowly wear down our opponent, we need to be trading constantly. This isn't really possible in these positions on this map. 2) If our goal is to prevent the Protoss from expanding, we want to stay ahead in bases. Since we're obviously going for a hive rush on 3 bases, it doesn't seem useful to trade for the nexus. 3) If our goal is to use the lings for map control, we want to retain them as much as possible and only take small, cost efficient trades. Not only do the lings allow us to pick off stray units/probes/pylons, but they also give us vision of what's happening on the map and allows us to track our opponent's army. This one makes the most sense on this map, and this is how Jaedong decided to play.
I agree the rush distance is long, but I think he would have had a 30-40 second time-window to kill the third if the lings were rallied across the map before Colossus #1 was out, and I don't see how Patience would have held. Even slowing the third by this little margin would give JD a strong advantage.
Later on, he kills all of the Phoenix, right before his spire finishes, but he decides to go ultras (the worst attacking unit in the game) instead, essentially giving Patience a free-pass on taking a fourth and makes his investment into colossus/immortal super effective, and felt a lot like auto-pilot.
This map in cross-spawns has a tendency to go super long, with Zerg often just sitting and waiting seemingly forever, when they could very easily be taking opportunities earlier in the game to swing the momentum in their favor as opportunities present themselves. Broodlord, infestor, ultra, corruptor is a strong composition but there are weaknesses that Protoss can exploit if done correctly, so blindly following this build order could be a recipe for disaster (e.g. Zest Soo).
And obviously game 5 is the best one. Absolutely the best finals in SC2 history.
THis is real TvP when the protoss acctualy had to make choices in the beginning about what units to make instead of being able to be safe against everything, being able to do 30 builds because no units need to be madfe before tech ...
And obviously game 5 is the best one. Absolutely the best finals in SC2 history.
THis is real TvP when the protoss acctualy had to make choices in the beginning about what units to make instead of being able to be safe against everything, being able to do 30 builds because no units need to be madfe before tech ...
jaeh but you talk drama etc, just from the game standpoint, a rush isnt that a good game
And obviously game 5 is the best one. Absolutely the best finals in SC2 history.
THis is real TvP when the protoss acctualy had to make choices in the beginning about what units to make instead of being able to be safe against everything, being able to do 30 builds because no units need to be madfe before tech ...
Disagree so hard. That series was fun to watch, but it was far from the best games ever.
I remember watching this after staying up all night to catch Jaedong's matches... it was about 10am & was worth every bit of pain my body & mind endured that day from lack of sleep.
On April 22 2014 02:37 r691175002 wrote: I'm personally not a fan of any game whose first engagement occurs at the 25 minute mark.
Even more so when I get tricked into watching all 25 minutes of singleplayer macro because TL called it the best game of the year.
On April 22 2014 03:48 SpawnMoarOverlords wrote: It's not because there's nothing dying that there's no interaction between the 2 players.
^This. Just because there isn't some kind of insane back and forth battle doesn't mean the game wasn't really interesting. If anything, the lack of actual confrontation is the side effect of hundreds of minor interactions that are happening between players. The second most striking thing about this game is the game plan each player employs: The fact that Jaedong opens double upgraded lings into a potential ultralisk timing into a gigagntic BL/ultra army into multi-pronged harass with pressure into a muta switch is just gorgeous; Patience opens super heavy +1 phoenix harassment into a primarily ground army into a huge air army to counter the muta switch, and it's beautiful.
The transitions are seamless and make so much sense. Just because you don't see a ton of back and forth battles doesn't mean there wasn't anything going on. This game is super densely packed, I can't see it another way.
On April 22 2014 03:48 SpawnMoarOverlords wrote: It's not because there's nothing dying that there's no interaction between the 2 players.
^This. Just because there isn't some kind of insane back and forth battle doesn't mean the game wasn't really interesting. If anything, the lack of actual confrontation is the side effect of hundreds of minor interactions that are happening between players. The second most striking thing about this game is the game plan each player employs: The fact that Jaedong opens double upgraded lings into a potential ultralisk timing into a gigagntic BL/ultra army into multi-pronged harass with pressure into a muta switch is just gorgeous; Patience opens super heavy +1 phoenix harassment into a primarily ground army into a huge air army to counter the muta switch, and it's beautiful.
The transitions are seamless and make so much sense. Just because you don't see a ton of back and forth battles doesn't mean there wasn't anything going on. This game is super densely packed, I can't see it another way.
Side effect of the Infestor/Brood era where people automatically assume <no fighting> = <no action>
The game was beautiful, messy, and felt like it could go either way up until the last moments.
I remember watching this game and constantly thinking that JD had lost it, but in the end he managed to win. This game was insane, thanks TL for the battle-report!
Too one sided an article to be even remotly interessing. Also, the macro hatch was at his third, not his fourth, and patience had 6 stargates, 3 were building and 3 were already done (1 then 2 then 3), the observer showed it as the casters made the mistake...
I only liked this game for the dynamics we saw in the late game, with the close bases they try to take, interesting positions i believe, should be used in future map, and of course the second fight from jaedong (wtf).