I also use a mouse button as base cam and the "o" key as rapid fire key, the only difference is, I press the right mouse button/cancel and the stop command right after i cycled through the hatches. If I have 2 queens but 3 hatches and hold the buttons down to long, one starts walking off. The cancel/stop action holds it it place.
Seems to work fine, no matter how many hatches. I only recently started this though, might be that I only had games with equal queen/hatch numbers though... I will test this later I also do not see, how this should be different from the version with two keyboard keys? You have the same input result? Or is it a general issue with rapid inject?
I have an Aivia Osmium and if I press two keys it still goes opppppppppppp instead of the necessary opopopop, my 25€ Microsoft keyboard I use on travel can do it though. Anybody with the same issue?
E: Just tested it.
As long as your queen is directly next to the hatch, it doesn't matter, how many hatches you have, but as soon, as the queen is a bit away from the hatch, it starts walking. if you do the Stoop command, it willl stay, but you won't have injected.
So the key for this to work is, to remember to put the inject queens right next to the hatches, as soon as you moved them for whatever reason.
The best part about this inject is that once you learn how to do it correctly, its exactly the same every time, and works no matter the # of queens and hatches. If you're getting wandering queens it is because you haven't internalized the amount of time to hold down the keys yet.
OK, maybe I have done something wrong, but from my theoretical point of view, it is natural for the queen to wander in both scenarios: 1. Queens are outnumbered by hatcheries: If you hit the hatch without a queen next to it, another (the closest) queen will start wandering towards the hatch. This is not a big problem, if that queen’s hatch is next in the inject cycle, as the queen will almost instantly get another command to inject the hatch. But If there are a lot of hatches in between, the queen will take a step and will be out of range for the inject. Now it depends, does the queen reach her original hatch for the inject before the lonely hatch is injected again, or does it turn around again, as it got the command to inject the other, lonely hatch. If you really have developed the perfect sense of time you can stop right after the last hatch got the command and the empty hatch will not get another inject command. I think it will work perfectly then, but is this really possible? You have to be aware of the number of hatches you have all the time and know the time it takes to inject 3,4 or 5 hatches, or even more.
2. 2 hatches 1 queen, which does not stand right next to the hatch: When you start RF inject, the queen will move towards the first hatch you injected, but it soon will get the command to inject the other hatch and turn around. Basically you can now keep holding down the rapid fire inject keys and the queen will start running circles, as it cannot reach any hatch before the next inject command is cast. Now it only depends, when you stop injecting. The last hatch that received the inject command will be injected and the queen will travel to that hatch and do her job.
I would really love to be proven wrong here, but this is the way I experienced the RF inject and the reasoning for the queen behaviors I came up with.
On September 17 2014 22:43 JaKaTaK wrote: The best part about this inject is that once you learn how to do it correctly, its exactly the same every time, and works no matter the # of queens and hatches. If you're getting wandering queens it is because you haven't internalized the amount of time to hold down the keys yet.
They are not wandering because of the amount of time I hold it down, but because they aren't close to to the hatch.
If they are right next to the hatch, It works perfectly, even if I hold the buttons a little bit too long. (As long as it is shorter than the inject animation. This is easy to do, after a little practice) If one of them is a few steps away from the hatch, it may start wandering.
Here is what I think happens: (correct me if I'm wrong) Let's say I have 3 hatches, ABC and 2 Queens, X (on A) Y (on B but a few steps away) - select queens; press base cam and rapid fire 1. cam jumps to C 2. Queens get command to inject and the closest one starts walking 3. cam jumps to A 4. Queens get command to inject, since X is directly next to it, it will inject (by that time, it won't actually have moved, even if it was ordered to move in 2) 5. cam jumps to B 6. Queens get command to inject, since X is still busy, Y starts to walk towards B 7. cam jumps to C 8. Queens get command to inject, since X is still busy, Y starts to walk towards C ...
-> roaming Queen Y
Only if I let go, right after I give the command to Inject B (i.e. 6) I don't have a problem, the queen will inject the right hatch and all is well, but this is impossible to control. but if I let go at any other point in the cycle
I always said someone with enough mouse accuracy and practice could pull off the RF Forcefield, but seeing it with my own eyes is kind of astonishing. I almost don't believe it.
EDIT: Looks like its a MOD that allows that to happen and not perfect execution in normal Sc2 game.
Anyone else find using this method for injects does more harm than good. It may save me a second, which is nice, but has the potential to make me lose 30 seconds. If I have less queens than hatcheries at some point in the game they will sometimes go ape shit around the map. If a queen next to 2 hatches only has energy for one inject but a queen elsewhere has energy for 2, again the queens do bad traveling. I find this method analagous to using ctrl-f2, it can save a lot of time, but it will fuck you over hard.
Ok, a friend told me that it worked with his keyboard (Corsair vengeance K90). I also read in a forum that it should work with any mechanical keyboard. Can you just tell us what keyboard have you used for the video ?
On September 28 2014 03:54 JaKaTaK wrote: That is happening because you're holding down the 2 keys for too long!
How do you figure? Let's say I have 3 hatches and 3 queens. Let's also say that the very first time I switch to a base location the queen next to that hatch doesn't have any energy. When I click on that hatchery one of the other queens is going to start running there.
On September 28 2014 03:54 JaKaTaK wrote: That is happening because you're holding down the 2 keys for too long!
How do you figure? Let's say I have 3 hatches and 3 queens. Let's also say that the very first time I switch to a base location the queen next to that hatch doesn't have any energy. When I click on that hatchery one of the other queens is going to start running there.
and then it is given the order to inject the hatchery that is closer to it which overrides that initial order. And you let go of the keys before any of the queens can be given a 2nd order (after they inject the closest hatch).
On September 28 2014 03:54 JaKaTaK wrote: That is happening because you're holding down the 2 keys for too long!
How do you figure? Let's say I have 3 hatches and 3 queens. Let's also say that the very first time I switch to a base location the queen next to that hatch doesn't have any energy. When I click on that hatchery one of the other queens is going to start running there.
and then it is given the order to inject the hatchery that is closer to it which overrides that initial order. And you let go of the keys before any of the queens can be given a 2nd order (after they inject the closest hatch).
So you're not using the shift key. That's fine, except when I need one queen to inject multiple adjacent hatches. That won't happen if I'm injecting properly all game, but my point is that the rapid injects just aren't going to work in every scenario and if you rely on it you may find yourself wishing you never used it in the first place.
On September 28 2014 03:54 JaKaTaK wrote: That is happening because you're holding down the 2 keys for too long!
How do you figure? Let's say I have 3 hatches and 3 queens. Let's also say that the very first time I switch to a base location the queen next to that hatch doesn't have any energy. When I click on that hatchery one of the other queens is going to start running there.
and then it is given the order to inject the hatchery that is closer to it which overrides that initial order. And you let go of the keys before any of the queens can be given a 2nd order (after they inject the closest hatch).
So you're not using the shift key. That's fine, except when I need one queen to inject multiple adjacent hatches. That won't happen if I'm injecting properly all game, but my point is that the rapid injects just aren't going to work in every scenario and if you rely on it you may find yourself wishing you never used it in the first place.
true, they don't work in every scenario. They work in almost all scenarios, and a 2ndary inject method can be used for those special scenarios very easily.
3 hatch, 2 queens. 2 hatches currently spawning, 1 not (obviously). Spawning not quite finished yet. I Inject-> both queens start to walk to the third. Even if I hit stop right after, they moved a step, which messes everything up. (see my post above) Same issue if Injects don't line up. 3 Hatch, 2 Queens. 1 Hatch currently spawning, 1 Just finished, 1 not (no Q). I Inject, the queen from the hatch that is still spawning moves.
In summary, this method is incredibly fast, if and only if your queens are right next to the hatch, you hit inject not a second to soon and you injects line up. Otherwise you have roaming queens.
Now that I read this Jakatak on injects, I am thinking of altering my method. I simply think it is not worth the amount of time learning to controll this method perfectly. Yes, it will safe time, if it works, but If it does not work perfectly, you get roaming queens, which sucks a to the ss. I feel I spend more time sending my queens back than I saved due to quick injects.
I'll try some things out tonight, but I am sceptical. One thing I will try is - select Qs - move mous to middle - press and hold rapid fire key - press and hold basecam for a split second and immideately press stop. (I have my basecam on the mouse, it might not work that way with keyboards)
Maybe if I hit the timings better, but it seems very hard, to hold the keys the exact amount of time needed, especially with alternating numbers of hatches.
EPT
