EPTMatch Analysis: Bomber vs. PartinG - Page 2
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Fuell
Netherlands3111 Posts
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Survivor61316
United States470 Posts
On December 18 2013 07:18 aldochillbro wrote: the power of chargelot/archon/storm is the zealots being able to tank. against hellbats there are suddently no zealots lol so i'd call it a hard counter Why dont you actually go back and watch that game and then try to tell me its a hard counter..parting was able to keep the game going with less army supply for quite a long time, something which would be quite hard to do if the units he was using were being "hard countered"... | ||
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aldochillbro
187 Posts
On December 18 2013 08:09 Survivor61316 wrote: Why dont you actually go back and watch that game and then try to tell me its a hard counter..parting was able to keep the game going with less army supply for quite a long time, something which would be quite hard to do if the units he was using were being "hard countered"... I'm referencing the strategy, not the specific game. I never commented on the game itself. there were 2 things that were unusual about this game that were WAY in the favor of the protoss 1. it's a huge map and cross spawns. hellbat marauder is a style that *should* be used on smaller maps due to hellbats not being as mobile as MMM if you want to use it most effectively 2. parting landed the most effective storms he could have in this game. this is not something that can be expected when playing against hellbat/marauder. so you have to take the amount of ridiculous storms that parting landed slightly out of the equation when comparing the 2 strategies. very few terrans would have tried to push up the ramp like that, it's just that bomber knew that he could win doing it. | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On December 18 2013 07:00 Shellshock wrote: Was a fun bo3. It was too bad that Bomber wasn't able to close it out. It seemed like PartinG adapted to the style Bomber was using on cloud kingdom very well. I think this is the most important thing to note here. When I say "hard-counter", I mean it in terms of the general armies both players have. When you see a player going templar, they often have gigantic hordes of like 30 chargelots backed by several HT and maybe a few immortals/archons; Bomber's hellbat/marauder army (with a ton of marines that he built for the first 10 minutes) are AMAZINGLY effective against that type of army. So how did PartinG manage to hold Bomber off with an inferior economy for almost 10 minutes? Why did PartinG win in the second game? He adapted very well and put more focus on archons and immortals and less on having a shitton of zealots. That's kind of what I wanted to convey in the article, but perhaps it wasn't very clear. EDIT: Also, this is actually not the final draft of the article, I'll try to get it edited as soon as possible! There are a lot of things people are addressing like PartinG overcommitting and single forge vs. double forge that are missing! | ||
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moloko
Austria7 Posts
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forsakeNXE
Germany539 Posts
 please keep this up on a regular bases it would be really nice content and make me interested in some non TvX matchups (as i play terran). | ||
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gengka
Malaysia461 Posts
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Qwyn
United States2781 Posts
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ZeromuS
Canada13426 Posts
On December 18 2013 09:36 SC2John wrote: I think this is the most important thing to note here. When I say "hard-counter", I mean it in terms of the general armies both players have. When you see a player going templar, they often have gigantic hordes of like 30 chargelots backed by several HT and maybe a few immortals/archons; Bomber's hellbat/marauder army (with a ton of marines that he built for the first 10 minutes) are AMAZINGLY effective against that type of army. So how did PartinG manage to hold Bomber off with an inferior economy for almost 10 minutes? Why did PartinG win in the second game? He adapted very well and put more focus on archons and immortals and less on having a shitton of zealots. That's kind of what I wanted to convey in the article, but perhaps it wasn't very clear. EDIT: Also, this is actually not the final draft of the article, I'll try to get it edited as soon as possible! There are a lot of things people are addressing like PartinG overcommitting and single forge vs. double forge that are missing! Yup that was my fault, normally we wait for final edit before standardizing but somewhere along today was miscommunication, everyone come re read it quick in a couple hours! | ||
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aldochillbro
187 Posts
On December 18 2013 10:50 Qwyn wrote: I hate language like hard-counter -_-. It's so damn stifling and really deadening T_T. i see where you're coming from. what john was probably trying to do was praise bomber for recognizing that he had an opportunity to build a counter-army based on little information. And when we say things like "hard counter" in terms of the midgame, I don't think we mean that it's gg from there. parting still could have won he was just at a disadvantage. | ||
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Chefquina
Netherlands11 Posts
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GenghisKhan
United Kingdom68 Posts
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igay
Australia1178 Posts
a little off topic but who ended up winning the grudge match between sc2john and teoita? and more importantly did they ever make it to the mid game? | ||
NovemberstOrm
Canada16217 Posts
On December 18 2013 13:43 igay wrote: sc2john killing it. a little off topic but who ended up winning the grudge match between sc2john and teoita? and more importantly did they ever make it to the mid game? Teo won http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=437395 | ||
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DaftFunk
194 Posts
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Sumahi
Guam5609 Posts
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29 fps
United States5725 Posts
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On December 18 2013 11:29 aldochillbro wrote: i see where you're coming from. what john was probably trying to do was praise bomber for recognizing that he had an opportunity to build a counter-army based on little information. And when we say things like "hard counter" in terms of the midgame, I don't think we mean that it's gg from there. parting still could have won he was just at a disadvantage. PartinG was very very dead after his templar/zealot attack failed miserably. The mere fact that he was able to draw out the game for another 10 minutes was a miracle and a testament to PartinG's incredible engagement micro. Look at the first engagement to see the "hard counter" potential of hellbat/marauder vs. templar builds; Bomber kills off like 20 zealots and 3 HT while taking almost no losses. Again, PartinG adapts to this later in the game and in the next game by focusing more on "power" units like immortals and archons and less on gateway units. On December 18 2013 13:43 igay wrote: sc2john killing it. a little off topic but who ended up winning the grudge match between sc2john and teoita? and more importantly did they ever make it to the mid game? Teo won 3-2, but it was a fun experience .Here's the VoD: http://www.twitch.tv/zeromus_ On December 18 2013 13:54 DaftFunk wrote: we need more of these, with other games! It's happening! :D | ||
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StutteR
United States1903 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
On December 18 2013 07:18 aldochillbro wrote: the power of chargelot/archon/storm is the zealots being able to tank. against hellbats there are suddently no zealots lol so i'd call it a hard counter I disagree. I was going zealot/templar before the Hellbat nerf and it worked just fine. You just need to play it smart (ie don't charge into hellbats when your third hasn't kicked in and you are tech switching). On December 18 2013 13:43 igay wrote: sc2john killing it. a little off topic but who ended up winning the grudge match between sc2john and teoita? and more importantly did they ever make it to the mid game? Yeah we got there a couple times. Here's a much better battle report: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=437293 | ||
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