I always prefer colossi before going archons and usually charge too unless they have stargate. The argument is made here that time warp makes it easier to fight colossi with immortals but I see it the other way around, I think time warp actually enforces colossi as it is harder to close in on them with slow movement on both sides.
I'm not exactly sure but I seem to have the idea that colossi are getting back in favor over straight IAC in pro games. The player with some colossi tends to beat the player without quite well and tempests are quite hard to get out if you don't have a stargate yet. On most maps I prefer going expo, a few immortals plus forge for +1, robo bay and then a third or if they took a greedy third push. Going third faster and defending on immortals plus gateway units is also possible I think but still I would go colossi before archons then, archons don't add that much I feel early on. Archons are a nice gas outlet and are quite useful when armies get bigger because too much zealots clump up and archons scale well with attack upgrades. Earlier on though I feel they are not worth rushing and for example if i want to push or secure or an early third i rather do it without them then with.

EsportsJohn

United States4883 Posts

December 02 2013 10:22 GMT

#28

On December 02 2013 19:00 Markwerf wrote:
I always prefer colossi before going archons and usually charge too unless they have stargate. The argument is made here that time warp makes it easier to fight colossi with immortals but I see it the other way around, I think time warp actually enforces colossi as it is harder to close in on them with slow movement on both sides.
I'm not exactly sure but I seem to have the idea that colossi are getting back in favor over straight IAC in pro games. The player with some colossi tends to beat the player without quite well and tempests are quite hard to get out if you don't have a stargate yet. On most maps I prefer going expo, a few immortals plus forge for +1, robo bay and then a third or if they took a greedy third push. Going third faster and defending on immortals plus gateway units is also possible I think but still I would go colossi before archons then, archons don't add that much I feel early on. Archons are a nice gas outlet and are quite useful when armies get bigger because too much zealots clump up and archons scale well with attack upgrades. Earlier on though I feel they are not worth rushing and for example if i want to push or secure or an early third i rather do it without them then with.

The prevalence of IAC in the current meta is based largely on the map pool, in my opinion. While time warp is good in conjunction with colossus, it cannot stop a near-360-degree surround; that being said, colossus do very well on maps where you can funnel stuff through chokes like Bel'Shir and Yeonsu. On maps with open spaces and limited terrain like Polar Night or Derelict Watcher, it's very easy to get a good flank with IAC and get underneath the colossus. Recent maps have been really open and flat with relatively few chokes, making IAC the more common choice. You're right, though. Colossus builds are making a comeback, and that may be due to a slightly different map pool as well as pro players having a better understanding of how greedy they can be with colossus builds.

The purpose of archons in the IAC composition is primarily 1) to break down forcefields in the early stages of the mid game and 2) provide a little bit of splash damage so that your zealots can overpower your opponent's zealots. Archons usually aren't rushed -- they usually pop up ~11:00-12:00 -- and often times they naturally coincide with an excess of gas on 2 bases (which you get if you don't go colossus). You make a point by saying that you prefer to get colossus before archons: colossus builds essentially converge on the same point as IAC builds (IAC + colossus) but in a different order. In that way they're similar except that IAC allows you a lot more mobility and the ability to control the map a little better. :D

Schelim

Austria11528 Posts

December 02 2013 10:35 GMT

#29

On December 02 2013 08:43 Hayl_Storm wrote:
I wanted to name this unit comp "The CIA" but got outvoted

wow, i love this. totally should've went for it haha.

Salient

United States876 Posts

December 02 2013 11:20 GMT

#30

I really like this style, but I've noticed that the very tip-top guys don't seem to use it that often. PartinG seems to favor very sharp all-ins. sOs seems to favor a blink opening that might or might not transition into this. And Dear seems to open with something like a stargate and then transition into mass Colossi.

Teoita

Italy12246 Posts

December 02 2013 11:26 GMT

#31

On December 02 2013 12:42 lichter wrote:
Did you intentionally release this now to get more votes in L'sTLCMAT

Yes cuz i have the ace match and sc2john was going to lose to opterown anyway xD

JustPassingBy

10776 Posts

December 02 2013 12:21 GMT

#32

On December 02 2013 19:35 Schelim wrote:

Show nested quote +

wow, i love this. totally should've went for it haha.

In my opinion, Immortal/Archon/Chargelot doesn't make sense at all, it isn't sorted either:
- lexicographically
- by their position on the battlefield
- by the time they appear on the battlefield
- by cost

but maybe that was the reason why it was chosen.

Salient

United States876 Posts

December 02 2013 12:29 GMT

#33

CIA is a much cooler and more memorable acronym.

tuoli9

Finland211 Posts

December 02 2013 12:31 GMT

#34

Oh Jiminy Cricket it sure is a jolly good time being a protoss thanks to you fellas at TL Strategems!

Teoita

Italy12246 Posts

December 02 2013 12:35 GMT

#35

Since when do protoss players make sense anyway

Wok race ftw

SaleritoCHILE

Chile28 Posts

December 02 2013 12:40 GMT

#36

nice power

ZeromuS

Canada13379 Posts

December 02 2013 15:29 GMT

#37

On December 02 2013 21:21 JustPassingBy wrote:

Show nested quote +

actually they are listed in order of importance. You want to make immortal moreso than archon early, then archon's and avoid making zealots unless you anticipate a fight soon.