• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
TeamLiquid Liquipedia LiquidDota LiquidLegends
EDT 04:52
CEST 10:52
KST 17:52
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Lore of the Nexus: The Angiris Council0DHM Valencia: Power Rank43[TSL9] Prize Pool & Talent18Code S RO10 - Group B, Day 1 Preview (Season 2)7Code S RO10 - Group A, Day 1 Preview (Season 2)11
Community News
2022 AfreecaTV Challengers Starleague Season 210BSL 2v2 ProLeague x ShieldBattery - SIGN UP NOW!14Code S RO10 Groups announced, RO20 final results1ESL Open #128: ByuN, MaxPax, Scarlett win3Artosis to leave Korea after GSL Season 3, possibility of online GSL casts?87
StarCraft 2
General
DHM Valencia: Power Rank Rogue & Trap out for DHM Valencia? Forbidden Ground buildings Shopify TeamLiquid StarLeague 9 Nation Wars 7 - China/Team Peace controversy
Tourneys
DreamHack Masters: Valencia 2022 - Day 1 [GSL 2022] Code S:Season 2 - Ro10 Group A [NationWars 7] Ro8 thread [Alpha Pro Series] Rogue v TIME Goodgame Cup #24 - Astrea, Solar, Spirit, ByuN
Strategy
Hero's pvz Simple Questions Simple Answers What should I try to work on to improve my TvZ [G] YAKS LOTV: Yet Another hotKey Setup - zerg
Custom Maps
Simple Questions/Answers [A] SC Real Scale
External Content
Mutation # 323 Well Trained Mutation # 322 Warp Zone Mutation # 321 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 320 Retribution
Brood War
General
YellOw wins poker tournament for $696,000 USD Future Cup 4 Under 18 ¿BSL U18? Titan Reactor - Year 2 [Update]ShieldBattery: New Ranked System BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[BSL15] - RO16 Group C - Friday 17:00 CEST [BSL15] - Ro16 Group D - Sunday 17:00 CEST The Casual Games of the Week Thread Artosis vs Gauntlet of the Apes
Strategy
ZvT Guardian Hydra Optimized Strategy before the gosus Project: Strat Update [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Diablo Immoral The PlayStation 5 Crossfire: Legion - A new RTS combining C&C and SC Final Fantasy XIV Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official Dota and Chess General Discussion TL.net migration megathread + LiquidDota archive [DPC 21-22] Tour 3 Discussion/LR LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net LiquidDota Site Rules
League of Legends
[Patch 12.7] Arcana Skins Release Discussion LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net [Summer Split] LoL Esports General Discussion [Patch Notes] Release General Discussion
Heroes of the Storm
Lore of the Nexus: The Angiris Council HotS: WP and Funny Moments Mapping Heroes: Battleground Stats Last Flight To Paris: MCC Group Stage
Hearthstone
TL Mafia
British Empire Mini Mafia II TL Mafia Community Thread Chezinu streak(s) Mafia Sengoku Mafia Survivor II: The Amazon
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Coronavirus and You Summer Games Done Quick 2022! Trading/Investing Thread Kashmir - Article 370 revoked
Fan Clubs
Day[9] Fan Club soO Fan Club Zest Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [TV] HBO Game of Thrones Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece [Manga] Berserk
Sports
2021 - 2022 Football Thread 2021 NFL/CFB Season NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread The Ultimate Mouse Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
On Radicalization and S…
plasmidghost
Bravery and cowardice…
Starlightsun
My daughter wants to pla…
JoinTheRain
On gun violence in America…
MrBitter
First time having "S*X".
Garnet
Gomorrah
Broodwar4lyf
Getting Back to it..!.20 years…
FuDDx
Age
AmericanUmlaut
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1126 users

The 2-2-2: Strategy Spotlight

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
213 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 9 10 11 Next All
Make sure you check out the Liquipedia version as well!

The 2-2-2: Strategy Spotlight

Text byTL Strategy
Graphics byNaganis
June 11th, 2013 19:00 GMT

Contents


Introduction

The Builds

Move-out and Engagements

Strengths and Weaknesses

VODs and Game Analysis

Preface


“Sing, goddess, of [his] ruinous anger
Which brought ten thousand pains to the Achaeans,
And cast the souls of many stalwart heroes
To Hades, and their bodies to the dogs
And birds of prey.“
*

If you have read the classics, you might think that the above passage refers to Homeric Achilles. Nay; this is an account of your Zerg ladder opponent's blistering rage as he fell fodder to the fabled Magic Johnson.

Introduction


immo_collossusTwo Nexi: check. Two Immortals: check. Two Colossi: check.
The Magic Johnson, or the the Triple Double, is a 2-base all-in that sets sail with two colossi and two immortals in addition to seven warpgates worth of units to bolster. While it is true that two base colossus pushes were all but dead at the dusk of Wings of Liberty, the shifting ZvP metagame has exposed a hole for this massive peg to penetrate.

The term metagame, in this case, refers to a set of assumptions, a basis for how we open and how we expect our opponents to open. When we cannot gather information explicitly, we must fall back on what we assume our opponent “should” do in a given situation. Towards the end of Wings, 12 minute +1 roach maxes to pressure Protoss's third received a lot of play. With proper forcefields, three immortals among a snowball of warpgate units could whittle away and then smash through an endless barrage of ling/roach; and thus, the go-to 2-base all-in for Protoss was the Soul Train. Enter HotS. Protoss players now have access to the new void ray and to the mothership core's photon overcharge. These two abilities allow for considerably easier defense against roach heavy aggression. On the other hand, hydralisks are not the dead-end they once were: Hydra speed and the viper tech enable Zergs to use hydralisks to defend against all-ins, transitioning then into an aggressive yet expansion-heavy mid-game without fearing the three-base +3 three colossus pushes of old. It is, therefore, no surprise why Parting's iteration of the immortal push has fallen out of fashion.

In short, the ZvP metagame has shifted from using roaches to defend against all-ins to using ling/hydra to achieve the same feat, while transitioning into a strong mid-game of ling/hydra/swarm host/viper/ultra with an emphasis on a fast hive as well as melee and carapace upgrades.

The Magic Johnson is designed to do critical damage while Zerg is still on ling/hydra, before he can transition into said strong mid-game.

The Builds


This guide includes 2 build orders. The first opens with phoenixes to kill off scouting Overlords, thus preventing convenient overseer scouting. These phoenix also serve to pick off drones that venture too far from spore crawlers, delaying the Zerg's production, and keeping him in the dark. Phoenix openers also tend to lull Zerg into a state of relaxed droning, as these Protoss builds typically transition into a third base. The second the overlords die, Protoss cuts right to the chase, pumping out robotics units as quickly as possible for the earliest move-out timing. Another important difference between the two builds include sentry and forcefield count, as the stargate opener will have less gas available to invest in early sentries, resulting in less energy in the final key fight.

With Stargate

  • FFE opening
  • 5:38, 33/44: First 150 gas into a stargate, 33/44
          Units from the first gateway: zealot, stalker, sentry, sentry
  • 6:05, 38/44: Third and fourth gas
          Units from the stargate: 4 phoenixes
  • 7:05, 52/60: Robotics facility
  • 7:40, 57/60: +1 Weapons
  • 8:10, 63/68: Support Bay
          Cut probes at 45, when you have full 2base saturation
          Units from the robo: immortal 2x, colossus 2x. Start thermal lance with the first colossus.
  • 8:35, 67/68: Add up to six gateways, for a total of 7
  • 10:00: Mothership core
          11:30: Move out when the second colossus completes.
Notes
  • Use your first stalker to deny overlord scouting.
  • Use your initial gateway units to check for zerglings at your third after clearing overlords, so that Zerg must invest more in scouting to figure out whether you are 2-basing.
  • Immediately use phoenixes to clear overlords and deny scouting rather than hiding them
  • Before moving out, warp in your sentries first as gas allows. Zealots and stalkers have the same utility no matter when they are warped in; only sentries need time to gain energy. Aim to have 8 sentries by the time you engage.

Without Stargate

  • FFE opening
          First 50 gas into warpgate
  • 5:40, 35/44: Robotics facility
          Units from the first Gateway: zealot, stalker, sentry
  • 6:05, 38/44: Third and fourth gas
          Units from the robo: immortal 2x, colossus 2x. Start thermal lance with the first colossus.
  • 7:02, 50/60: Support Bay, then start the first sentry
          Cut probes at 45, going up to full 2base saturation
  • 8:10: Add the first set of 2 extra gates
  • 8:25-8:40: Add up to six gateways after starting the first Colossus and thermal lance
  • 9:00: +1 Weapons
  • 9:20: Mothership Core
          9:50: Move out when the second colossus completes.
Notes
  • Use your first stalker to deny overlord scouting.
  • Use your initial gateway units to check for zerglings at your third after clearing overlords, so that Zerg must invest more in scouting to figure out whether you are 2-basing.
  • Before moving out, warp in your sentries first as gas allows. Zealots and stalkers have the same utility no matter when they are warped in; only sentries need time to gain energy. Aim to have 8 sentries by the time you engage.

Move-out and Engagements


ffNotice the roach/hydra forcefielded against the Protoss army, rather than cut in half or away from it.

Much like the Soul Train, the Magic Johnson excels in small chokes to maximize the utility of sentries and to minimize the Zerg's concave. With the three immortal Soul Train, sentries are used to section off small portions of the roach army, or even forcefield every roach away from the Protoss army. When playing the Triple Double, you should use forcefields more aggressively, preventing the retreat of ling/hydra from your powerful colossi. It is also important to note that you have to end the game even faster than with the Soul Train because Zerg can easily defend if he is able to get up to mass roach/corruptor and win with sheer numbers.

Strengths and Weaknesses


Zergs generally want to use hydralisks for safety because they transition more strongly into the mid-game. Roaches are stronger against this push, but weaker against just about every other one, and also not as good to pressure a third base thanks to void rays and photon overcharge. Even if the Zerg scouts the robotics, he cannot assume that investing in roaches is appropriate unless he knows for sure you are not taking a 3rd, and that you are in fact going for 2 base colossus. So while the stargate opener hits later, the scouting information that it denies can make your push even stronger.

As with other PvZ all-ins, if Zerg scouts your quick colossus tech, they can formulate a strong response. Pure roach play or circumventing the push entirely with spire tech for mass mutalisks have proven adequate answers thus far. Even though this build includes two immortals, roaches are stronger against it than they were against the Soul Train because the Protoss doesn't have infinite sentries, and sheer numbers of units can clean up the all-in. This is particularly true for cheap roaches, which are easily massable against such a delayed push.

VODs and Game Analysis


Vod Flying vs Roro on DF Atlas Set 2. From WCS Korea
In this game, RorO tries to respond to a fast, stargate-less colossus all-in with a roach/hydra/ling force, trying to overwhelm the Protoss with sheer numbers. However, he doesn't engage perfectly and loses a few units unnecessarily, and eventually he is forced to gg as the colossi remain untouchable. Timing hits at 10:30.

Vod Squirtle vs ALBM on Bel'Shir Vestige Set 2. From WCS Korea
This game shows the problem with getting corruptors against the 2base allin version, even the slower one off stargate: spire tech is so expensive the zerg sacrifices a huge chunk of his ground army, so he is unable to clean up the stalker/immortal force of Squirtle after taking down the two colossi. Timing hits at 12:30.

Vod Classic vs Zero on Neo Planet S from Proleague.
Stargate variant of the build, and as a result Zero plays too greedy taking a fourth and overdroning (making up to 72!), which forces into a base trade as he can't fight the Protoss army straight up. From there, the game somehow normalizes. Timing hits at 12:00.

Vod Hellokitty vs EGSuppy on Bel'Shire Vestige from WCS NA.
Robo variant, but only gets one immortal and then an observer while also adding a warp prism later on; he is able to overwhelm a roach/hydra/ling defense thanks to great forcefields and warp prism micro. Timing hits at 11:00.

Vod Avenge vs Hydra on Akilon Wastes Set 2. From WCS Korea.
Robo variant, Hydra is able to identify the build and correctly go roaches but Avenge wins by abusing Akilon's rocks. The corruptors prove too big of an investment, and the stalker/immortal army eventually wins the fight on the ground. Timing hits at 11:30.

Vod Trap vs Sniper on Star Station Set 2. From WCS Korea
Stargate variant, the phoenixes lead Sniper into being too greedy and while the colossi get taken down by corruptors, the ground Protoss army wins after a tight micro battle. Timing hits at 11:40.

Vod Super vs Curious on DMZ Set 7. From GSTL
Robo variant, Curious overdrones immensely (up to 71) and doesn't have enough roach/hydra/ling for the fast version of the push. Timing hits at 10:40.

Vod Parting vs Soulkey on Star Station Set 5. From WCS Korea.
Robo variant with one immortal; Soulkey is able to identify the push in time to go for mutas and deal crippling damage while forcing a recall. Timing hits at 11:10 after being delayed by speedlings.
* Homer's The Iliad Book I

Brought to you by the TL Strategy Team
Writers: Teoita and Alejandrisha
Graphics: Naganis
Liquipedia Support: PolskaGora
Editors: Hayl_Storm, monk and wo1fwood
Facebook Twitter Reddit
Stopher
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United States38 Posts
June 11 2013 19:03 GMT
#2
This is fantastic! The preface is hilarious xD
"The inner machinations of my mind are an enigma." -Patrick Star
pak150
Profile Joined September 2010
United States531 Posts
June 11 2013 19:04 GMT
#3
That's one nasty build -- nice writeup!
Zygno
Profile Joined August 2012
Austria276 Posts
June 11 2013 19:07 GMT
#4
man, we need some terran guides! not only protoss
graNite
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Germany4432 Posts
June 11 2013 19:11 GMT
#5
great, another protoss allin....
so lame, try to bring some fun to the ladder, not this useless crap!
"Oink oink, bitches" - Tasteless on Pigbaby winning a map against Flash
LeafBlower
Profile Joined April 2010
United States115 Posts
June 11 2013 19:11 GMT
#6
i've been trying this build for a while but haven't found that much success because i suck at executing it. i think it's super important to deny all scouting and make it ambiguous as to whether or not you're taking a 3rd. great guide though.
aXa
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
France748 Posts
June 11 2013 19:11 GMT
#7
DON'T MAKE GUIDES ABOUT IT, PROTOSS WILL READ AND PAIN WILL ENSUE
KirA_TheGreaT
Profile Joined April 2011
France204 Posts
June 11 2013 19:12 GMT
#8
need some terran guides seriously
Shaoer
Profile Joined July 2012
United States60 Posts
June 11 2013 19:12 GMT
#9
On June 12 2013 04:07 Zygno wrote:
man, we need some terran guides! not only protoss


hahahah 2-2-2 seemed like rax-fact-star instead of gate-robo-star lol
I GG all the time
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6565 Posts
June 11 2013 19:13 GMT
#10
On June 12 2013 04:11 LeafBlower wrote:
i've been trying this build for a while but haven't found that much success because i suck at executing it. i think it's super important to deny all scouting and make it ambiguous as to whether or not you're taking a 3rd. great guide though.

when you engage, it should look like this

[image loading]


hope that helps
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
Whatson
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United States5334 Posts
June 11 2013 19:13 GMT
#11
The Protoss writers for TL are so frigging OP
¯\_(シ)_/¯
laegoose
Profile Joined June 2010
Russian Federation325 Posts
June 11 2013 19:14 GMT
#12
Flying vs Roro on DF Atlas Set 2. From WCS Korea
bad link, there's 7 gate all-in game.
Ben...
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada3441 Posts
June 11 2013 19:14 GMT
#13
The Magic Johnson is the perfect name for this build hahaha

Also, this build is sick good. I use it quite a bit.
"Cliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide" -Tastosis
Howl41
Profile Joined September 2012
United States65 Posts
June 11 2013 19:15 GMT
#14
RIP 1/1/1 T_T
<3 Bomer/Flash/Innovation/MMA/MVP/Demuslim/Forgg/Gumiho/Lucifron/SeleCT
KadaverBB
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany25628 Posts
June 11 2013 19:15 GMT
#15
Looks nice
AdministratorLaws change depending on who's making them, but justice is justice
HelloSon
Profile Joined April 2010
United States456 Posts
June 11 2013 19:18 GMT
#16
Why Magic Johnson instead of Oscar Robertson?
yo
tili
Profile Joined July 2012
United States1322 Posts
June 11 2013 19:18 GMT
#17
Hahaha. This is nicely done.

Thank you!
vNmMasterT
Profile Joined September 2012
68 Posts
June 11 2013 19:18 GMT
#18
TL strategy = protoss all-in/gimmick library
GinDo
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
3327 Posts
June 11 2013 19:19 GMT
#19
On June 12 2013 04:07 Zygno wrote:
man, we need some terran guides! not only protoss


I know. TL Strategy has never featured a Terran guide T_T. Always P and Z.

I think its because Terran is more about good control then hitting timings. .
ⱩŦ ƑⱠẬ$Ħ / ƩǤ ɈƩẬƉØƝǤ [ɌȻ] / ȊṂ.ṂṼⱣ / ẬȻƩɌ.ȊƝƝØṼẬŦȊØƝ / ẬȻƩɌ.ϟȻẬɌⱠƩŦŦ ϟⱠẬɎƩɌϟ ȻⱠẬƝ
monk
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States8476 Posts
June 11 2013 19:21 GMT
#20
If no one complains about the lack of Terran guides from now on, I promise the next one will be Terran.
Moderator
1 2 3 4 5 9 10 11 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
ESL Pro Tour
08:00
DH Valencia 2022 - Day 2
ESL.tv2811
Esl_sc22811
IndyStarCraft 1451
Crank 515
TaKeTV 503
ESL_sc2b441
ALGaming 379
ESL_sc2c236
ESL229
Maincast Studio 221
OGamingTV SC2 142
HorussTv 64
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
IndyStarCraft 1451
Crank 515
ROOTSuperNova 206
ProTech54
CosmosSc2 21
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 16779
Horang2 2744
PianO 791
Shuttle 601
Stork 431
ToSsGirL 248
Leta 209
ggaemo 165
Shinee 122
Rush 64
[ Show more ]
zelot 61
sSak 52
CadenZie 39
scan(afreeca) 39
Snow 28
Jumperer 23
Beast 19
Dota 2
resolut1ontv 1165
Attackerdota815
XcaliburYe674
XaKoH 632
febbydoto145
Super Smash Bros
Westballz19
Other Games
summit1g22398
tarik_tv21683
singsing1776
m0e_tv1066
WinterStarcraft540
Livibee275
mouzStarbuck114
KnowMe81
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick63872
Dota 2
BeyondTheSummit22448
Counter-Strike: Global Offensive
ESL CS:GO924
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Bosshoore 4
• Gussbus
• Laughngamez YouTube
• Poblha
• Alpha X_
• aXEnki
• Migwel
• intothetv
• CSOeSports
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamez Trovo
StarCraft: Brood War
• sscaitournament2
• STPLYoutube
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV1445
League of Legends
• Rush9462
• Stunt410
Upcoming Events
DPC 2021/2022 Tour 3
1h 8m
Team Bald Reborn vs Nigma
OG vs TBD
CSO Contender
7h 8m
DPC 2021/2022 Tour 3
10h 8m
Evil Geniuses vs TBD
ESL Pro Tour
18h 8m
ESL Pro Tour
23h 8m
Ultimate Battle
1d 2h
Soulkey vs Rush
BSL: ProLeague
1d 6h
ESL Pro Tour
2 days
ESL Pro Tour
2 days
DPC 2021/2022 Tour 3
3 days
Evil Geniuses vs TBD
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Endless Battle 3: Mihu vs KuKu
DHM Valencia: EU
PSISTORM HC 2022
Roobet Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 15: GosuLeague
STL37
RCG 2021
KCM Ladies Race Survival 2022 Season 2
Nine-Tathlon Invitational
HoneyCai Friendlies Season 4
GAN Race Survival Season 4
CWCL Season 4
FS Mania
Big Baby Popularity Contest
KCM Race Survival 2022 Season 2
BSL Season 15
TOP Challenge Qualifier
2022 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
Deathfate Pro Team League
WTL 2022 Summer
2022 GSL S2: Code S
StarCraft II: NationWars 7
DH Masters Valencia
Community Clash League S4
X-Cup Summer 2022 - Quals.
Masters Clash Champ. 2022
ESL Challenger Valencia 2022

Upcoming

BSL Season 15: HasuLeague
Future Cup 4 (U18)
Luck Over Strength
TOP Challenge
2022 ACS Season 2
WSL Season 3
Ultimate Battle: Soulkey vs Rush
2022 GSL: ST 2
DH Masters Atlanta
2022 GSL S3: Code S
TSL 9
HomeStory Cup XXI
X-Cup Summer 2022
X-Cup Summer 2022 - Qual. 7
X-Cup Summer 2022 - Qual. 6
X-Cup Summer 2022 - Qual. 5
IEM Rio Major 2022
ESL Challenger Melbourne 2022
ESL Pro League Season 16
BLAST Premier Fall Groups
ESL Challenger League S42 NA
ESL Challenger League S42 EU
ESL Challenger League S42 AP
IEM Cologne 2022
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2022 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.