• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:18
CEST 08:18
KST 15:18
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202548RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams4Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4
StarCraft 2
General
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread RSL Season 1 - Final Week The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
ASL20 Preliminary Maps Ginuda's JaeDong Interview Series BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [Update] ShieldBattery: 1v1 Fastest Support! BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams
Tourneys
CSL Xiamen International Invitational [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 672 users

[D] PvT-PvZ The Cress Carrier Build - Page 4

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next All
SidewinderSC2
Profile Joined November 2011
United States236 Posts
June 09 2013 23:30 GMT
#61
I should mention that Carriers in PvT vs Mech is totally fine though.
Erik.TheRed
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1655 Posts
June 09 2013 23:47 GMT
#62
As others in the thread have mentioned, White-Ra has been beating EU GM zergs for a while with 2 base carrier builds and such. He even took some games of Hyun with carriers during the HOTS beta if I remember correctly. On maps like Akilon where you can take a very easy third going for carriers early works great especially if the zerg tries to counter with roach hydra or goes for a swarm host queen timing.

That being said, it certainly isn't the most solid build available (phoenix or void rays are almost always a safer and better option) but there are some scenarios where having 3-4 carriers early works out really well. They do quite decently vs mutas and hydras (especially with void ray support and air ups) and can stay far away from corruptors so he can't just run in and kill them without taking damage from cannons and void rays. In a situation where zerg is likely to switch between ultras, infestors, and mutas (see leenock vs naniwa on akilon) they are potentially better for their supply than tempests, phoenix, or void rays (unless you have a LOT of voids and HT).There is also the potential for 2-3 carrier and MSC harass at a zerg 3rd which is tricky if the zerg only has queens and spores.

"See you space cowboy"
RaptorPete
Profile Joined June 2013
6 Posts
June 10 2013 01:14 GMT
#63
When a zerg scouts that your natural is not walled off, how do you defend a speedling bust? At, say, the 6-7 minute mark?
Erik.TheRed
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1655 Posts
June 10 2013 02:21 GMT
#64
On June 10 2013 10:14 RaptorPete wrote:
When a zerg scouts that your natural is not walled off, how do you defend a speedling bust? At, say, the 6-7 minute mark?


Every time I've seen white-ra do this build he goes FFE. Don't really think the quicker stargate is necessary since you are gearing up to play a pretty long macro game no matter what.
"See you space cowboy"
Cress
Profile Joined September 2011
United States212 Posts
June 10 2013 03:40 GMT
#65
On June 10 2013 05:36 SidewinderSC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
I still feel carriers just have not been tried or play around with enough. Taking advantage of their positioning and most effective way of creating them. Your a high masters player of Standard play I assume. I respect that, but how many games attempting to go carriers have you really tried?


I am very non-standard. I have tried Carrier builds in PvT a LOT, and it always comes down to the fact that they do the job of a Colossus, except the Colossus does it a lot better. Believe me, if I had my way, the Colossus would be removed from the game and more interesting units would take their place. I never use Colossus in any matchup except PvT, only because it is a necessity against a high Marine count from 3 bases and beyond. 2 bases you can easily Storm your way around the map.

Show nested quote +
I'm not saying carriers are good or bad... But lets keep trying eh?


Alright, I will try to get some Carrier games going again and see if the new meta somehow helps out. I do think that you need to open Storm and get Carriers on 3 bases though, as opposed to 2 or 1 base.


I think game 4 of the WCS World finals between SoS and INnoVation was pretty interesting. Carriers are indeed a little like colossus but if you treat them like colossus they will die. I think making use of dead space is a pretty important part. SoS seemed to understand how to siege air units very well with gate way units. I wonder how the game would have gone if half of those tempests were carriers. I feel he lost at the end of the game because tempests just have far to low dps. Carriers don't have this problem.

You could be right fast storms into carriers with a 3rd could be interesting. Sounds like a lot to manage making sure your carriers are in a good position and working well with your gate way units though. I imagine it would take a bit of time getting used too. That game between SoS and innovation might be a good template just trade the tempests for carriers. You could even go half and half, being the boss I am though I say they should all be carriers <3

Let's be honest how many people would be freaking out if SoS was building carriers in the finals against innovation. He would be the most loved protoss of all time.
Cress
Profile Joined September 2011
United States212 Posts
June 10 2013 04:04 GMT
#66
On June 10 2013 10:14 RaptorPete wrote:
When a zerg scouts that your natural is not walled off, how do you defend a speedling bust? At, say, the 6-7 minute mark?



Its a good question to ask RaptorPete. I do talk about it a little in my OP. However let me go into further detail and the idea behind the building placements. The zealot in the Middle wall off opposed to the zealot on the side makes for a much more secure wall off if you move the zealot back into the wall just a bit. Makes lings have to come at the zealot one at a time and theres 0% chance the lings will run past the zealot.
When I was doing the old style wall off with the zealot on the side, Lings more often then not slid by the zealot sometimes and its important to keep the lings locked into your natural at least in till most of them are dead. The only downside is that stalkers cannot fit through the zealot in the middle wall off. Bit of a trade off.

There's the danger of the nexus being targeted when its overcharged. That's why you put pylons up against the nexus to reduce surface area. There's also the oracle which is out and about when these lings are coming at you and can clean up lings pretty nicely.

All in all this type of defense will save you 300 early game minerals over the FFE type. I'm the only person I know of that uses this type of defense where you rely on pylons to reduce damage on the nexus, the nexus cannon its self, and the zealot in the middle type wall. So I imagine it looks a little strange. You have to consider 300 minerals is a big chunk of money to throw down on a forge and cannon so early. You also need to get out a fast momma core to scare out those pesky first few lings that will come at you.

A 16 drone speedling all-in has a chance of a killing the nexus, but in my experience you can add on void rays and retake your expansion, they are very hard pressed to hold off the void rays even more so if you just build a lot off one base. Since they usually lose all the lings, they basicly have one base saturation and not many queens. That's usually how I respond to that sort of thing.
Most non-all in speedling attacks you will hold off with ease they won't get into your main but you should pull the probes into your main if he attempts to target them. You kinda have to eye ball it based on how many lings he made if you should mineral drill to another mineral patch or pull them into the main.

If theres any large amount of lings on the map you should attempt to be killing them with your oracle as lings die crazy fast to oracles. Sometimes they will just pull back the lings and attempt to wait for the nexus cannon to wear off, but you already have a second nexus cannon ready by the time it wears off to use another and you should have your nexus well sim city-ed at that point.
uh-oh
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Hong Kong135 Posts
June 10 2013 04:52 GMT
#67
I've also been doing some carrier builds in both matchups at low masters level on the korean server and it's really fun. My style is very similar to the OP's, but in PvTs I get 2 oracles to keep tagging the terran army so my carriers will never get caught out of position while I snipe bases. I also dump my chronos into shield and attack upgrades instead of into carrier production because an upgrade lead with carriers means that the fleet is at least 20% more effective(each attack upgrade increases carrier DPS by 20% of the original so you want to get as many attack ups as you can before the terran gets armor). Later on I also mix in 3-5 tempests for long range firepower, breaking turrets and killing vikings(a tempest beat two vikings one on one)

I was watching the sos vs inno game 4 and I felt like if he didnt have that many tempests, instead mixing in carriers he couldve had a chance. 4-5 tempests are great but more is kinda wasteful because tempests tend to overkill and 7 tempests can waste their shots on a single marine. carriers wouldve provided the necessary DPS to finish of inno's army after he weathered through the storms and tempests and vastly outupgraded zealots.

In PvZs I usually do forge fast expands and mix in around 6-8 phoenixes so I can be active on the map and pull the zerg out of position while my carriers snipe bases. 7 range phoenixes help soften corruptors, kill overlords and limit zerg vision so it's harder for the zerg to catch your carriers out of position. Again upgrades are key and I use gateway walls to guard my expansions as well as for zealot DT warp ins to harass and defend bases from ling run bys.
When I get to grandmasters, you have my permission to die!
uh-oh
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Hong Kong135 Posts
June 10 2013 05:08 GMT
#68
oh and did I say it's auto win vs mech? mix in some tempests and start picking units off, then when you have the upgrade timings just a move and laugh. Sometimes terrans mix in mines which makes it even more fun as the mines will splash the terran army while killing the interceptors. While the interceptors can be rebuilt quickly and does not affect your army production, losing vikings to widow mines does and as long as you dont lose over 4 carriers you can press on, if you do, just recall out
When I get to grandmasters, you have my permission to die!
Kuzmorgo
Profile Joined May 2009
Hungary1058 Posts
June 10 2013 10:03 GMT
#69
On June 10 2013 12:40 Cress wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 10 2013 05:36 SidewinderSC2 wrote:
I still feel carriers just have not been tried or play around with enough. Taking advantage of their positioning and most effective way of creating them. Your a high masters player of Standard play I assume. I respect that, but how many games attempting to go carriers have you really tried?


I am very non-standard. I have tried Carrier builds in PvT a LOT, and it always comes down to the fact that they do the job of a Colossus, except the Colossus does it a lot better. Believe me, if I had my way, the Colossus would be removed from the game and more interesting units would take their place. I never use Colossus in any matchup except PvT, only because it is a necessity against a high Marine count from 3 bases and beyond. 2 bases you can easily Storm your way around the map.

I'm not saying carriers are good or bad... But lets keep trying eh?


Alright, I will try to get some Carrier games going again and see if the new meta somehow helps out. I do think that you need to open Storm and get Carriers on 3 bases though, as opposed to 2 or 1 base.


I think game 4 of the WCS World finals between SoS and INnoVation was pretty interesting. Carriers are indeed a little like colossus but if you treat them like colossus they will die. I think making use of dead space is a pretty important part. SoS seemed to understand how to siege air units very well with gate way units. I wonder how the game would have gone if half of those tempests were carriers. I feel he lost at the end of the game because tempests just have far to low dps. Carriers don't have this problem.

You could be right fast storms into carriers with a 3rd could be interesting. Sounds like a lot to manage making sure your carriers are in a good position and working well with your gate way units though. I imagine it would take a bit of time getting used too. That game between SoS and innovation might be a good template just trade the tempests for carriers. You could even go half and half, being the boss I am though I say they should all be carriers <3

Let's be honest how many people would be freaking out if SoS was building carriers in the finals against innovation. He would be the most loved protoss of all time.



I wanted to mention that game too in this thread . I remember thinking "Carriers would have done so much better against that bio" during that game. But it showed pretty well how you should abuse the terrain with these siege air units.

One thing i feel uncomfortable with is you completely skipping warp gate research though. I mean its so cheap that I don't really understand the reason behind not getting it. And later trading a couple cannons for gateways could be worthwhile. Personally I just feel like having the versatility to warp in units where they are needed is a good trade-off for some static defenses, and gives you a safe feeling. And you will need it late game anyway. Is 50 gas really gonna delay you so much? Also you dont have to recall your carriers for a few units attacking your main. Other than that I will definitely try this build.
"No, whine not! Play, or play not! There is no whine."
Foblos
Profile Joined September 2011
United States426 Posts
June 10 2013 11:02 GMT
#70
On June 10 2013 19:03 Kuzmorgo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 10 2013 12:40 Cress wrote:
On June 10 2013 05:36 SidewinderSC2 wrote:
I still feel carriers just have not been tried or play around with enough. Taking advantage of their positioning and most effective way of creating them. Your a high masters player of Standard play I assume. I respect that, but how many games attempting to go carriers have you really tried?


I am very non-standard. I have tried Carrier builds in PvT a LOT, and it always comes down to the fact that they do the job of a Colossus, except the Colossus does it a lot better. Believe me, if I had my way, the Colossus would be removed from the game and more interesting units would take their place. I never use Colossus in any matchup except PvT, only because it is a necessity against a high Marine count from 3 bases and beyond. 2 bases you can easily Storm your way around the map.

I'm not saying carriers are good or bad... But lets keep trying eh?


Alright, I will try to get some Carrier games going again and see if the new meta somehow helps out. I do think that you need to open Storm and get Carriers on 3 bases though, as opposed to 2 or 1 base.


I think game 4 of the WCS World finals between SoS and INnoVation was pretty interesting. Carriers are indeed a little like colossus but if you treat them like colossus they will die. I think making use of dead space is a pretty important part. SoS seemed to understand how to siege air units very well with gate way units. I wonder how the game would have gone if half of those tempests were carriers. I feel he lost at the end of the game because tempests just have far to low dps. Carriers don't have this problem.

You could be right fast storms into carriers with a 3rd could be interesting. Sounds like a lot to manage making sure your carriers are in a good position and working well with your gate way units though. I imagine it would take a bit of time getting used too. That game between SoS and innovation might be a good template just trade the tempests for carriers. You could even go half and half, being the boss I am though I say they should all be carriers <3

Let's be honest how many people would be freaking out if SoS was building carriers in the finals against innovation. He would be the most loved protoss of all time.



I wanted to mention that game too in this thread . I remember thinking "Carriers would have done so much better against that bio" during that game. But it showed pretty well how you should abuse the terrain with these siege air units.

One thing i feel uncomfortable with is you completely skipping warp gate research though. I mean its so cheap that I don't really understand the reason behind not getting it. And later trading a couple cannons for gateways could be worthwhile. Personally I just feel like having the versatility to warp in units where they are needed is a good trade-off for some static defenses, and gives you a safe feeling. And you will need it late game anyway. Is 50 gas really gonna delay you so much? Also you dont have to recall your carriers for a few units attacking your main. Other than that I will definitely try this build.


For a while in WoL Gretorp was doing protoss builds without warpgate and was winning consistently. Especially with the mothership core the need for warping in is lessened, and the ability to play protoss like any of the other races is hightened. I do kind of agree with you that after you're done getting air upgrades there is no reason to not have it, but since the build completely ignores gateway units there is really no reason to get it.
But at what cost ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)
Chaser808
Profile Joined May 2012
24 Posts
June 10 2013 14:24 GMT
#71
Cress I love the builds, just wanted to say thanks!
I want to share an issue I ran across in a game I played tonight. Basically the Zerg who chose to use hydras wasn't trying to target fire my carriers, but instead just let them shoot down interceptors(I explain why this is a concern of mine below). I wasn't able to hit the critical mass as this was just as I was getting my 3rd up. It was 5 carriers vs about 20-25ish hydras. The issue was that he let his hydras just fire at my interceptors and what ended up happening was I was losing interceptors faster than my carriers could produce them. Then he basically just steamrolled me and my empty carriers. Have you come across this before? How do/would u deal with this? Thanks!
Erik.TheRed
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1655 Posts
June 10 2013 16:08 GMT
#72
On June 10 2013 23:24 Chaser808 wrote:
Cress I love the builds, just wanted to say thanks!
I want to share an issue I ran across in a game I played tonight. Basically the Zerg who chose to use hydras wasn't trying to target fire my carriers, but instead just let them shoot down interceptors(I explain why this is a concern of mine below). I wasn't able to hit the critical mass as this was just as I was getting my 3rd up. It was 5 carriers vs about 20-25ish hydras. The issue was that he let his hydras just fire at my interceptors and what ended up happening was I was losing interceptors faster than my carriers could produce them. Then he basically just steamrolled me and my empty carriers. Have you come across this before? How do/would u deal with this? Thanks!



http://drop.sc/341335

here's a replay where I played someone who went for hydra aggression as you described, and held it off. I think as long as you have some support for the carriers (guardian shield, a few void rays, cannons) then as long as you are microing your carriers back and forth it shouldn't be too hard to hold these hydra attacks.
"See you space cowboy"
Cress
Profile Joined September 2011
United States212 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-10 17:04:25
June 10 2013 17:03 GMT
#73
On June 10 2013 23:24 Chaser808 wrote:
Cress I love the builds, just wanted to say thanks!
I want to share an issue I ran across in a game I played tonight. Basically the Zerg who chose to use hydras wasn't trying to target fire my carriers, but instead just let them shoot down interceptors(I explain why this is a concern of mine below). I wasn't able to hit the critical mass as this was just as I was getting my 3rd up. It was 5 carriers vs about 20-25ish hydras. The issue was that he let his hydras just fire at my interceptors and what ended up happening was I was losing interceptors faster than my carriers could produce them. Then he basically just steamrolled me and my empty carriers. Have you come across this before? How do/would u deal with this? Thanks!


I've come across mass hydralisk builds before where they mass expand and just go straight up hydra and maybe add vipers later. Useally when I have about 3-4 carriers I immediately recognize it as a timing to kill one of the zergs bases. Then move around the sides of the map carefully making use of mass recall. If your harassment with 3-4 carriers loses their interceptors then just wait for them to rebuild over dead space. I usually never go looking for my opponents army its either defend my own bases or attack one of his bases

Depleted interceptors is really only something that happens to me against Terran sometimes really. Honestly once your down to 3-4 interceptors you really should pull your carriers back. Usually when I do lose its about more about how I lost my patience I flew my carriers directly into marines or hydras makes me /face palm when it happens.

I'm usually just focused on killing bases making sure the zerg can't Remax if they are going hydra's, The zerg needs a bank to fight carriers over the long term. We wanna make sure they don't have a bank.

It'd help if you had a replay or something, to take a look at
Cress
Profile Joined September 2011
United States212 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-10 17:17:43
June 10 2013 17:15 GMT
#74
On June 10 2013 19:03 Kuzmorgo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 10 2013 12:40 Cress wrote:
On June 10 2013 05:36 SidewinderSC2 wrote:
I still feel carriers just have not been tried or play around with enough. Taking advantage of their positioning and most effective way of creating them. Your a high masters player of Standard play I assume. I respect that, but how many games attempting to go carriers have you really tried?


I am very non-standard. I have tried Carrier builds in PvT a LOT, and it always comes down to the fact that they do the job of a Colossus, except the Colossus does it a lot better. Believe me, if I had my way, the Colossus would be removed from the game and more interesting units would take their place. I never use Colossus in any matchup except PvT, only because it is a necessity against a high Marine count from 3 bases and beyond. 2 bases you can easily Storm your way around the map.

I'm not saying carriers are good or bad... But lets keep trying eh?


Alright, I will try to get some Carrier games going again and see if the new meta somehow helps out. I do think that you need to open Storm and get Carriers on 3 bases though, as opposed to 2 or 1 base.


I think game 4 of the WCS World finals between SoS and INnoVation was pretty interesting. Carriers are indeed a little like colossus but if you treat them like colossus they will die. I think making use of dead space is a pretty important part. SoS seemed to understand how to siege air units very well with gate way units. I wonder how the game would have gone if half of those tempests were carriers. I feel he lost at the end of the game because tempests just have far to low dps. Carriers don't have this problem.

You could be right fast storms into carriers with a 3rd could be interesting. Sounds like a lot to manage making sure your carriers are in a good position and working well with your gate way units though. I imagine it would take a bit of time getting used too. That game between SoS and innovation might be a good template just trade the tempests for carriers. You could even go half and half, being the boss I am though I say they should all be carriers <3

Let's be honest how many people would be freaking out if SoS was building carriers in the finals against innovation. He would be the most loved protoss of all time.



I wanted to mention that game too in this thread . I remember thinking "Carriers would have done so much better against that bio" during that game. But it showed pretty well how you should abuse the terrain with these siege air units.

One thing i feel uncomfortable with is you completely skipping warp gate research though. I mean its so cheap that I don't really understand the reason behind not getting it. And later trading a couple cannons for gateways could be worthwhile. Personally I just feel like having the versatility to warp in units where they are needed is a good trade-off for some static defenses, and gives you a safe feeling. And you will need it late game anyway. Is 50 gas really gonna delay you so much? Also you dont have to recall your carriers for a few units attacking your main. Other than that I will definitely try this build.



I go boss mode carriers. To tell you the truth when I'm trying out something new. I usually just restrict myself to that one unit, then add other units later on. For example when the void ray change happened in Hots I was just massing void rays. Then I added storm after I felt comfortable about how many void rays were needed. After doing mass carriers a bit I think storm should probably be considered once you get around 3-4 carriers. Maybe instead of adding on more star gates just stick to 2 for awhile.
The reason I don't usually get warp gate is because of the delay to attack upgrading, carriers get a lot of help from the + attack upgrades. In fact they have some of the strongest attack upgrades in the game. By the time 50 gas does not matter the upgrades have started.

I think SoS handled his tempests and gate way units together very well. I think thats probably how you should use gate way units and carriers together like that. He had an advantage that game that he only reason lost because tempests deal too little dps. I wanted so very bad to see how carriers would have worked in this game. Maybe if even just half of those tempests were carriers. Oh well though


I figured out how carriers should be used over dead space by massing carriers alone and see how that works alone. Now it might be time to add some gate way units and storm. See how that works out. I think the trick is getting the carriers and storms out before your opponent has a good economy compared to yours.
Cress
Profile Joined September 2011
United States212 Posts
June 10 2013 17:26 GMT
#75
On June 10 2013 13:52 uh-oh wrote:
I've also been doing some carrier builds in both matchups at low masters level on the korean server and it's really fun. My style is very similar to the OP's, but in PvTs I get 2 oracles to keep tagging the terran army so my carriers will never get caught out of position while I snipe bases. I also dump my chronos into shield and attack upgrades instead of into carrier production because an upgrade lead with carriers means that the fleet is at least 20% more effective(each attack upgrade increases carrier DPS by 20% of the original so you want to get as many attack ups as you can before the terran gets armor). Later on I also mix in 3-5 tempests for long range firepower, breaking turrets and killing vikings(a tempest beat two vikings one on one)

I was watching the sos vs inno game 4 and I felt like if he didnt have that many tempests, instead mixing in carriers he couldve had a chance. 4-5 tempests are great but more is kinda wasteful because tempests tend to overkill and 7 tempests can waste their shots on a single marine. carriers wouldve provided the necessary DPS to finish of inno's army after he weathered through the storms and tempests and vastly outupgraded zealots.

In PvZs I usually do forge fast expands and mix in around 6-8 phoenixes so I can be active on the map and pull the zerg out of position while my carriers snipe bases. 7 range phoenixes help soften corruptors, kill overlords and limit zerg vision so it's harder for the zerg to catch your carriers out of position. Again upgrades are key and I use gateway walls to guard my expansions as well as for zealot DT warp ins to harass and defend bases from ling run bys.


I feel that Carrier attack upgrades are useful, I usually delay the shield upgrades though as I don't feel its worth the 150-150 that early in the game. It sounds like you have your own style though so stick to it. You should post some replays of your games =D. Using the oracles to constantly tag the Terran army sounds like a good idea. As it can be easy to lose track of where it is, especially when your taking a risk moving over open field.

I to feel SoS should've made a few carriers to finish off innovations army. Seems like he had a lot of money invested in tempests but their dps was just so low when it came die to kill marines. Tempests just don't seem to trade well with marines. If you can have good position on carriers though you'd just be trading minerals for marines.

Sos Clearly has his own tempest style there, and if he had been making earlier carriers instead of tempests his economy might have been messed up. I would suggest that if only half of the money he'd put into tempests was carriers >.> we would have seen something amazing. One of the best terran players in the world would have died to tempest/carrier/gateway units.
Cress
Profile Joined September 2011
United States212 Posts
June 10 2013 17:57 GMT
#76
On June 10 2013 20:02 Foblos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 10 2013 19:03 Kuzmorgo wrote:
On June 10 2013 12:40 Cress wrote:
On June 10 2013 05:36 SidewinderSC2 wrote:
I still feel carriers just have not been tried or play around with enough. Taking advantage of their positioning and most effective way of creating them. Your a high masters player of Standard play I assume. I respect that, but how many games attempting to go carriers have you really tried?


I am very non-standard. I have tried Carrier builds in PvT a LOT, and it always comes down to the fact that they do the job of a Colossus, except the Colossus does it a lot better. Believe me, if I had my way, the Colossus would be removed from the game and more interesting units would take their place. I never use Colossus in any matchup except PvT, only because it is a necessity against a high Marine count from 3 bases and beyond. 2 bases you can easily Storm your way around the map.

I'm not saying carriers are good or bad... But lets keep trying eh?


Alright, I will try to get some Carrier games going again and see if the new meta somehow helps out. I do think that you need to open Storm and get Carriers on 3 bases though, as opposed to 2 or 1 base.


I think game 4 of the WCS World finals between SoS and INnoVation was pretty interesting. Carriers are indeed a little like colossus but if you treat them like colossus they will die. I think making use of dead space is a pretty important part. SoS seemed to understand how to siege air units very well with gate way units. I wonder how the game would have gone if half of those tempests were carriers. I feel he lost at the end of the game because tempests just have far to low dps. Carriers don't have this problem.

You could be right fast storms into carriers with a 3rd could be interesting. Sounds like a lot to manage making sure your carriers are in a good position and working well with your gate way units though. I imagine it would take a bit of time getting used too. That game between SoS and innovation might be a good template just trade the tempests for carriers. You could even go half and half, being the boss I am though I say they should all be carriers <3

Let's be honest how many people would be freaking out if SoS was building carriers in the finals against innovation. He would be the most loved protoss of all time.



I wanted to mention that game too in this thread . I remember thinking "Carriers would have done so much better against that bio" during that game. But it showed pretty well how you should abuse the terrain with these siege air units.

One thing i feel uncomfortable with is you completely skipping warp gate research though. I mean its so cheap that I don't really understand the reason behind not getting it. And later trading a couple cannons for gateways could be worthwhile. Personally I just feel like having the versatility to warp in units where they are needed is a good trade-off for some static defenses, and gives you a safe feeling. And you will need it late game anyway. Is 50 gas really gonna delay you so much? Also you dont have to recall your carriers for a few units attacking your main. Other than that I will definitely try this build.


For a while in WoL Gretorp was doing protoss builds without warpgate and was winning consistently. Especially with the mothership core the need for warping in is lessened, and the ability to play protoss like any of the other races is hightened. I do kind of agree with you that after you're done getting air upgrades there is no reason to not have it, but since the build completely ignores gateway units there is really no reason to get it.


I think it would be great, to play around with Gate way unit / Carriers but make use of good positioning on the carriers. Game 4 of the WCS between SoS and Innovation sorta inspired me to this idea.

Cress
Profile Joined September 2011
United States212 Posts
June 10 2013 19:00 GMT
#77
On June 11 2013 01:08 Erik.TheRed wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 10 2013 23:24 Chaser808 wrote:
Cress I love the builds, just wanted to say thanks!
I want to share an issue I ran across in a game I played tonight. Basically the Zerg who chose to use hydras wasn't trying to target fire my carriers, but instead just let them shoot down interceptors(I explain why this is a concern of mine below). I wasn't able to hit the critical mass as this was just as I was getting my 3rd up. It was 5 carriers vs about 20-25ish hydras. The issue was that he let his hydras just fire at my interceptors and what ended up happening was I was losing interceptors faster than my carriers could produce them. Then he basically just steamrolled me and my empty carriers. Have you come across this before? How do/would u deal with this? Thanks!



http://drop.sc/341335

here's a replay where I played someone who went for hydra aggression as you described, and held it off. I think as long as you have some support for the carriers (guardian shield, a few void rays, cannons) then as long as you are microing your carriers back and forth it shouldn't be too hard to hold these hydra attacks.


Back in WOL I used to play around with carriers also and could beat masters players with it. However it did rely on maps favoring a quick 3rd and being able to get so many sentries. I had a harder time making sentry carrier work in Hots however because of the new maps having a more open 3rd and the speed upgrade on hydra's. I did find that if you have guardian shield on carriers they trade effectively with corruptors.
My point being that theres a lot of different styles of making carriers work
Chaser808
Profile Joined May 2012
24 Posts
June 10 2013 22:20 GMT
#78
Thank you for the advice cress! It seems I need to be more active with sniping and recall earlier, along with watching my interceptor numbers. Appreciate your time!
Cress
Profile Joined September 2011
United States212 Posts
June 11 2013 04:00 GMT
#79
On June 10 2013 11:21 Erik.TheRed wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 10 2013 10:14 RaptorPete wrote:
When a zerg scouts that your natural is not walled off, how do you defend a speedling bust? At, say, the 6-7 minute mark?


Every time I've seen white-ra do this build he goes FFE. Don't really think the quicker stargate is necessary since you are gearing up to play a pretty long macro game no matter what.


Well you can save 300 early minerals by doing my version, even if it is slightly more risky. It threatens a gate way push just by doing it. The quicker star gate is needed to put on a bit of pressure and get accurate scouting of what the zergs doing. White ra does a gateway support type style, he treats the carriers as if they are colossus. I dunno, comes down to preference I suppose. Each does have its advantages though.

I think at the highest level you need to be doing the gateway/stargate style is more solid. The mass carrier style more risky but more fun so, Its just for entertainment at a mid masters level don't take it too seriously. It does show how carriers should be handled over dead space and such. I think if you go for the gate way style you should be using the same tactics as mass carriers.
Demicore
Profile Joined October 2011
France503 Posts
June 14 2013 21:13 GMT
#80
On June 09 2013 10:10 Cress wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 09 2013 09:26 Demicore wrote:
Been using carriers in most of PvTs and PvZs as well to great results. Love this unit.


Hmm, well if they are games against masters players who spend their money and are active on the map. Maybe you could share your experiences with them?

I think too many people are missing the point of carriers and thats the love you feel when you build one. When I build this spider lagged thing that fires lasers I feel no attachment to it. When I build a carrier all my memories of Brood war flash before my eyes O.o.


Oh no I'm a shit diamond, I wouldn't dare inflict my replays upon you.
"I love male nipples in starcraft; the two go together so well." ~Tasteless
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 42m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft604
StarCraft: Brood War
firebathero 1164
Leta 505
Zeus 190
Noble 52
ajuk12(nOOB) 13
Britney 0
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K925
Other Games
summit1g10886
SortOf28
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1352
BasetradeTV48
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• practicex 67
• Sammyuel 18
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 4
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Scarra2303
• Stunt980
Upcoming Events
Esports World Cup
3h 42m
Reynor vs Zoun
Solar vs SHIN
Classic vs ShoWTimE
Cure vs Rogue
Esports World Cup
1d 4h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
CSO Cup
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
5 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.