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[G] Avilo HOTS Bio Into Raven Accumulation Style™

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-07 02:52:22
May 07 2013 02:22 GMT
#1
Hi guys, I am back with the sequel or new school guide for what players will see cropping up in more and more TvZ games, many may have already seen this innovative style from my stream multiple times.

Expect a few koreans to carbon copy it soon and it to spread like wildfire soon (you may have noticed Heart in WCS NA attempted this style, but he seemed to be lacking in some of the knowledge on what to do with the unit comp).

And who best to enlighten on what the hell to do with a strategy/unit transition...other than the person that started to perpetuate it? (suck it haters) :D

You may remember reading the original lategame Raven transition guide that I wrote here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=315198

Please keep in mind that this is not a build order guide, as you can reach this endgame TvZ style with any opening build order. There are important reference points and guidelines I will give though on when to begin the transition to ravens. This is also a guide giving some tips on how to use the new seeker to increase the probability it will land.

Essentially, the same exact concepts from the original guide I wrote apply in HOTS, with some changes due to the changed seeker missile and energy/upgrade requirements to the raven.

The core concept: Accumulating ravens in lategame TvZ with bio or mech in order to parry Zerg's hive tech. In the example replays I have posted at the end of this guide, the style is a marauder heavy lategame style. Because ultralisks are so strong in HOTS, transitioning to a heavier marauder count is much more necessary. Widow mines and marines only are insufficient if Zerg reaches a maxed ultra/infestor/bane army or even ultra/hydra army.

The key difference stats-wise between HOTS Raven usage and WOL Raven usage - you now have an effective counter to infestors, a more accessible seeker missile, and overall a more reliable raven making it a better investment.

HOTS Seeker Missile: 10 or so range, 3 second target acquisition time, less damage than WOL seeker, but costs less energy at 75 energy

Production Set Up for avilo's HOTS Bio into Raven Accumulation™: In my previous guide, the main goal was to get up to 3-4 base gas economy and then add on 2 tech labbed star ports in conjunction with a reactored starport.

I have changed my own style and guidelines for this in HOTS due to ravens not sucking as hard. Now I add 4 tech labbed starports instead of the previous 2.

With the stipulation - your 3/3 upgrades should currently be researching. This is the most important part that I can emphasize.

I also add on approximately 3-4 tech labbed barracks after 3 bases solely for marauder production. Marauders are very much a lategame TvZ unit nowadays because of how strong ultralisks are.

The composition you end up with will be a marauder heavy bio army with essentially a slow build up of ravens to allow you maximum cost efficiency and trades while still maintaining the mobility of bio+medivacs.

A Word of Warning:
Not every TvZ you play will get to this late game stage. But the goal is to play as standard and efficient as possible with your macro, and with that in mind it's important that your main army is as strong as possible so all vespene gas has to be invested towards your 3/3 before tech labbed starports.

Remember, with this style ravens are not meant to be a "gimmick" or "fancy shit." You will want to essentially play the best possible early and mid-game TvZ as humanly possible with de facto standard widow mine + bio or tank + bio. If you can outplay your opponent in the first 15 minutes and kill them...by all means do so!

Do not purposely aim for "getting mass ravens." That is not viable at all. Ravens are meant to be used if you cannot kill your opponent or they are playing perfect Zerg turtle which will force you into late game, in which ravens are your go to option to parry hive tech.

When to begin the Raven Production?
Essentially, after your 3/3 is researching, and after you have added on late game tech labbed barracks for marauder production. At this point in the game, you'll be on essentially pure bio, with a few mines or tanks, and all of your vespene gas income will go into accumulating ravens to combat Zerg hive tech.

How to Micro/Target with Ravens in HOTS:
There is now an art to seeker missile usage because a seeker is not guaranteed to ever go off. I have personally found in HOTS, the more and more experience that you have using the new seeker will allow you to make the missile more reliable.

A lot of using the HOTS seeker is about judging distance of unit positioning in comparison to your raven's, judging whether your opponent will commit his units to attack, and this is a skill that can be learned and practiced.

Here are a few seeker techniques to make your seeker missiles more reliably go off, as well as guidelines to follow to hopefully help you in the learning process:

Raven Seeker Target Techniques:
The Point Blank WOL-style Seeker:
[image loading]
Just as the description says, you will want to get your raven as close to the target as possible and then use your seeker missile.

Since the distance between the seeker and the target is very short, there is less chance the enemy unit will be able to escape the activation range on the seeker.

This technique you will want to use when you want guaranteed seeker hits, and also can be used a lot in conjunction with point defense drone to make it possible for your raven to survive.

How many seekers to risk?

With this type of targetting, feel free to throw out as many seekers as necessary, because most of them will land (if not all). Very useful on slow units like broodlords, or infestors off of creep.

The "Come at me bro" Seeker:
[image loading]
This is basically a seeker missile you fire as your opponent is committing to an attack. It takes a bit of experience to know when a Zerg will commit their units, but usually it involves a huge engagement of your main army with theirs, probably involving fungals as well.

This is where you seeker infestors, broods, and hydra/roach while kiting bio backwards (or just running) and running your raven/viking backwards while sometimes also utilizing PDD for extra defense.

The dangers in using this are knowing which units to target, and also you want to do this at a range far enough that your ravens are able to run away with the rest of your army.

An example of a bad thing to do here would be to seeker 3 corruptors that are flying near your army/raven flock, because good opponents can suicide those units into you. The same goes for ultralisks - you have to be very careful to be on the full run so that you don't eat too many of your own seekers.

You always will be kiting your bio army away while throwing these seekers into your opponent as they run at you.

How many seekers to risk?

Remember, do not expend all of your seekers as it's still possible that your opponent will retreat causing seeker failure.

The "Stay the Fuck Away Bro" Seeker:
[image loading]
You know those times when you...need more time? That's what this technique is for. Let's say your opponent killed a chunk of your army, or has you in a bad spot, and is about to try to steamroll you down.

What do you do? You use a few seekers on their army from the max distance possible, usually 2-3 that's enough to say "fuck off, come back later."

Because you are firing from max seeker distance, there is a very, very low chance your seekers are going to activate. But that is OK in this instance. You want more time, and that's what this technique does. It gives you a bit of extra time to rally more units up, get in a better position, etc...and if your opponent still wants to come at you...well, he's going to be taking a lot of damage for free.

How many seekers to risk?
Usually 1-2 seekers, and no more. Remember, there's probably a 5-10% chance of these ever activating, you don't want to panic and throw out so many that you have no energy for later on.

The "Kamehameha" Seeker:
[image loading]
This one is what you may have seen Bomber do with medivacs...it's quite simple really. You target one of your own medivacs with 2-3 seekers, wait a second for the seeker to acquire the medivac, and then speed boost into your opponent's army.

This technique can be very useful in lategame viking/raven vs corruptor fights, because it's a seeker that's under your control, rather than the opponent's control (reminiscent of irradiating your own science vessels BW TvZ...)

What to do against different unit compositions:
Hydra/Roach/Viper:
If you are going bio against hydra/roach/viper and end up with ravens, there will be times when you want to use energy on PDD, and other times when Zerg is committing to fighting you or you have them backed into a place where they have to fight...then you use seeker missile on clumps of hydras.

If Zerg lands blinding clouds, you can also use the "Stay the fuck away bro™" seeker and run, if Zerg follows you, his units will go boom.

Ultralisk/Ling/Infestor
This one is very tricky, but your first priority is doing your best to seeker the infestors. If you do somehow manage to get rid of infestors, or there are mainly ultras left, you can seeker the ultras but you have to use "Point Blank Seekers™" so that they will go off, and you have to kite away with bio.

Alternatively, once the infestors are dead you can oftentimes just save your raven energy and try to take out the ultras with your bio or force them back while they remake units.

Ultralisk/Hydra
PDD can be useful here but basically seeker as many hydras as you can while kiting away with bio. It really depends on their ratio of ultra/hydra. If they have a ton of hydras you may be able to kill the ultras with bio and then use only PDD to have an invincible army, or you can just go for the seekers anyways.

Mass mutalisk/Ling/Baneling
If you're playing someone that stays on this into 200/200, you're going to have to do your best to pull off good Point Blank seekers when banelings roll by, while kiting with bio.

If you can seeker enough banelings, the rest is a pretty easy cleanup with bio + medivacs. If you do seeker his mutas, be sure to seeker mutas near the center of the clump so that it's harder for Zerg to pick out the targetted muta. It's tough and up to your micro here and the situation because you don't want to launch 5 seekers into mutas and then have the mutas fly over your army -_-

End of Avilo's HOTS Bio Into Raven Accumulation Style™:
Please keep in mind, a lot of my previous guide found here still applies to the HOTS Raven.

I encourage Terrans to experiment with the new raven and get more experience with the new seeker missile. There is a skill element in getting your seeker missiles to activate very often, and after you play with this style a lot you'll find you'll very rarely have dud seekers, and you'll get better at using raven energy as efficiently as you can to survive through multiple remaxes of the Zerg.

Seeing is Believing (Replays):
http://rapidshare.com/files/3705767052/aviloHOTSbioRavenTransition.rar

Just as a note: the replays above, i believe in most of them i utilize a very standard and common 3 CC into bio opening, nothing too out of the ordinary goes on until 3/3 infantry upgrades are being researched and then...enjoy

+ Show Spoiler +
p.s. In a week or two, perhaps a few more, maybe a month...some brave korean will finally execute this style well and everyone will applaud him, deeming him insanely creative...but you will remember this thread and grin remembering that a foreigner came up with it first
Sup
MrMatt
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada225 Posts
May 07 2013 02:34 GMT
#2
a GSL will be won with this style
Grobyc
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada18410 Posts
May 07 2013 03:10 GMT
#3
I don't think you can prove/claim you came up with the style. Just because you were the first to write a guide on it doesn't mean no one else has been using it before you.

Anyway, to the point, I've seen a number of good Koreans use this kind of composition on stream and it definitely seems strong. The seeker missile on your own medivac then boosting it into the army thing that bomber did was hilariously awesome though haha
If you watch Godzilla backwards it's about a benevolent lizard who helps rebuild a city and then moonwalks into the ocean.
Genome852
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States979 Posts
May 07 2013 03:18 GMT
#4
I've been doing this since I tend to get a lot of spare gas once 3/3 starts researching, often ending up with 0 minerals and a ton of gas. I basically think of the raven as a 100 mineral unit at that point since the gas isn't being used anyways... and they're really good and easy to keep alive (use energy -> move them back to base while bio continuous attacking)
PanzerElite
Profile Joined May 2012
540 Posts
May 07 2013 03:56 GMT
#5
Bomber's medimissile very effective.
Kevin_Sorbo
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada3217 Posts
May 07 2013 03:58 GMT
#6
Dont worry man, youll also be copied by a ton of white dudes who speak about 15 different langages.
You gotta see the wider picture. nice read.

Will give it a shot for sure.
The mind is like a parachute, it doesnt work unless its open. - Zappa
dafnay
Profile Joined May 2010
Angola375 Posts
May 07 2013 04:17 GMT
#7
Avilo is the most underrated player in the old USA , he really should join EG or something , he has true talent and dedication.
movac
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada494 Posts
May 07 2013 04:29 GMT
#8
On May 07 2013 13:17 dafnay wrote:
Avilo is the most underrated player in the old USA , he really should join EG or something , he has true talent and dedication.


yeah Avilo is pretty smart, but imagine the hilarious situation of Avilo and IdrA in the same team
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20282 Posts
May 07 2013 04:39 GMT
#9
Thanks for the guide bro
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-07 05:10:52
May 07 2013 05:10 GMT
#10
Not a bad guide as ravens are super good but this isn't new ravens in late game have been being used for the past month or so in tvz if it gets to that stage ^^. mainly on the korean server but some NA players have been doing this for awhile as well.
When I think of something else, something will go here
padfoota
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Taiwan1571 Posts
May 07 2013 05:36 GMT
#11
This style is also amazing in TvT
Stop procrastinating
avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-07 05:52:00
May 07 2013 05:50 GMT
#12
On May 07 2013 14:10 blade55555 wrote:
Not a bad guide as ravens are super good but this isn't new ravens in late game have been being used for the past month or so in tvz if it gets to that stage ^^. mainly on the korean server but some NA players have been doing this for awhile as well.


Yeh, i know. I'm mostly joking with the "omg i invented it" although when it comes down to it I haven't seen many other Terrans use the bio + raven strategy with the new seeker for a mobile style, and with more of an emphasis on pure bio and accumulating a lot of ravens instead of using vikings.

A lot of the raven usage before was pure turtle raven where you'd only be able to do it on split maps, like metropolis. Maybe it just seems more new-ish to me personally because i hadn't played bio style in forever into raven accumulation, not to mention blizzard wised up and made it so if you make ravens there's no longer a 2 minute period where you just insta-die from ravens that float there doing nothing !

The norm right now still seems -> make bio + mines -> do it until you or the zerg dies with no gameplan beyond that. Hence the guide/tips/replays :Beer:



Sup
Insoleet
Profile Joined May 2012
France1806 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-07 05:51:25
May 07 2013 05:50 GMT
#13
Bio is so cost effective that terrans always ended their games with a ton of gas.

I was wondering why so few terrans were transitionning in mass ravens lategame... I guess it wont be the case anymore. As if this matchup was not hard enough ahah

Chicken Chaser
Profile Joined July 2010
United States533 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-07 05:53:03
May 07 2013 05:52 GMT
#14
Watched half of the replays so far. Thanks for the guide--should help Terrans get into the groove of transitioning into Ravens in the late game.

Off-topic, but I was thinking this while watching your replays:

Wouldn't it be nice if casters had a total count of "charges" of an ability? Maybe you have a flock of 16 Ravens and you could see that you have 22 Seeker Missiles available, or 30 Turrets. I suppose this could "dumb" down the game, but it helps to know the difference between having 1 seeker missile available in your Raven flock vs. 10 seeker missiles before charging into a battle... The same applies to Ghosts, Infestors, etc.

EDIT: Semi-on/off-topic question... When should we research tunneling claws?
avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
May 07 2013 05:54 GMT
#15
On May 07 2013 14:10 blade55555 wrote:
Not a bad guide as ravens are super good but this isn't new ravens in late game have been being used for the past month or so in tvz if it gets to that stage ^^. mainly on the korean server but some NA players have been doing this for awhile as well.


Yeh, i know. I'm mostly joking with the "omg i invented it" although when it comes down to it I haven't seen many other Terrans use the bio + raven strategy with the new seeker for a mobile style, and with more of an emphasis on pure bio and accumulating a lot of ravens instead of using vikings.

A lot of the raven usage before was pure turtle raven where you'd only be able to do it on split maps, like metropolis. Maybe it just seems more new-ish to me personally because i hadn't played bio style in forever into raven accumulation, not to mention blizzard wised up and made it so if you make ravens there's no longer a 2 minute period where you just insta-die from ravens that float there doing nothing !

The norm right now still seems -> make bio + mines -> do it until you or the zerg dies with no gameplan beyond that. Hence the guide/tips/replays :Beer:

On May 07 2013 12:58 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
Dont worry man, youll also be copied by a ton of white dudes who speak about 15 different langages.
You gotta see the wider picture. nice read.

Will give it a shot for sure.


On May 07 2013 12:10 Grobyc wrote:
I don't think you can prove/claim you came up with the style. Just because you were the first to write a guide on it doesn't mean no one else has been using it before you.

Anyway, to the point, I've seen a number of good Koreans use this kind of composition on stream and it definitely seems strong. The seeker missile on your own medivac then boosting it into the army thing that bomber did was hilariously awesome though haha


NP, i'm being sarcastic for the most part guys lol. Though I like to think i dabble in a lot of the new edgy strategies that end up popping up in the metagame months later after some S class korean does it and everyone then decides it was worthwhile to copy lol :D
Sup
MateShade
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia736 Posts
May 07 2013 05:54 GMT
#16
Lol at your tm.... Seriously dude
avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
May 07 2013 05:55 GMT
#17
On May 07 2013 14:52 Chicken Chaser wrote:
Watched half of the replays so far. Thanks for the guide--should help Terrans get into the groove of transitioning into Ravens in the late game.

Off-topic, but I was thinking this while watching your replays:

Wouldn't it be nice if casters had a total count of "charges" of an ability? Maybe you have a flock of 16 Ravens and you could see that you have 22 Seeker Missiles available, or 30 Turrets. I suppose this could "dumb" down the game, but it helps to know the difference between having 1 seeker missile available in your Raven flock vs. 10 seeker missiles before charging into a battle... The same applies to Ghosts, Infestors, etc.

EDIT: Semi-on/off-topic question... When should we research tunneling claws?


Most Terrans research tunneling claws as their 2/2 upgrades or going if they are putting an emphasis on widow mines. Otherwise, you can get it as late as starting your 3/3 infantry upgrades.
Sup
plogamer
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Canada3132 Posts
May 07 2013 06:11 GMT
#18
Mad props for being the few Terrans outside of Korea to be innovating - and - posting guides on TL. I'm thinking that cloak banshee into ravens is a brilliant transition - since, going cloak delays upgrades. But "magic" damage from ravens ignore upgrades - and hopefully buys enough time to even out upgrades at 3/3.
DemigodcelpH
Profile Joined August 2011
1138 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-07 06:26:23
May 07 2013 06:19 GMT
#19
On May 07 2013 11:22 avilo wrote:
HOTS Seeker Missile: 10 or so range, 3 second target acquisition time, less damage than WOL seeker, but costs less energy at 75 energy


Correction Seeker Missle delay is 5 seconds not 3.

On May 07 2013 14:50 Insoleet wrote:
Bio is so cost effective that terrans always ended their games with a ton of gas.


If only mech could be the same way. The most gas intensive composition in the game.
`dunedain
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
653 Posts
May 07 2013 06:52 GMT
#20
Yea, totally awesome guide!
Late game TvZ has really been fucking up my win rate.

Glad to see that there are still Terrans out there putting in the effort to provide info for those of us stuck in the quagmire that is late game TvZ. Ultras are a bitch to deal with btw /rant.

Thanks for this Avilo, will definitely give it a try!
"In order to be created, a work of art must first make use of the dark forces of the soul." ~Albert Camus
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